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Grunge Garage

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markviii

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Hi Bill and Julie. I wish you a productive New Year. I know making progress on the health/dental issues was a big step for you. The final tax bill is due soon, so make sure to get that cleared. up, too Selling things is the best way, accomplishing two things at once - clearing out clutter and getting money to go forward. Letting go of "stuff" is such a freeing feeling (being trapped by "stuff" is not confidence-building and may lead to some unintended, negative consequences which will depress you more than this status quo you're trapped in). Keep up with the progress you're making on clearing rooms, one at a time on some sort of schedule, since you'll be stuck in the house once the cold winter weather sets in.

Kindest regards,

Chris
 
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bczygan

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Quick update.
Going to first Dr's appointment in 4 or 5 years today.
Julie surprised the hell out of me yesterday by spending most of the day sorting through her shoes and throwing away most of them (Boxes full)! She seems determined to make progress!
She cleaned out her closet and filled a big bag with trash.
She also cleaned out the bottom 2 drawers of her dresser and put her daily clothes in there.
Wow!
She said she wants to fill dumpsters with things purposefully chosen, rather than putting things outside and letting them get ruined en masse.
I've been reading her posts from this and other threads here on GJ, that discuss other people's hoarding experiences and successes. I think it has gotten into her head a bit.
I did car repair, straightened living room and fixed meals.
New year, new start! Every day is a new start!
 

cowboy73

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Happy New Year, Bill and Julie! Glad to hear that you both are still at it! Keep at it. I was at my parents' house this past weekend and I started looking at all the "stuff" they have accumulated in the 40 years that they've lived there. When I look at it now, I see it in a different way. I have been tossing stuff lately at my house. Things that I have gotten gave to me that I don't have the slightest use for. I tossed some stuff this weekend that I had been holding onto for "someday". It had been sitting there for about 4 years!!! It really is freeing in a way to toss stuff and not have to move it or walk around it.
 
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bczygan

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Been busy with medical appointments so far this week. Did throw out 3 dumpsters worth including a 27" Sony TV. Broke up a wooden desk that was ruined too. Went to my first Dr's appointment in 5 years and got accepted by dental school yesterday and had X-Rays taken. Need to set appointment. Found I had low vitamin D like Julie. Have to take Rx and then over the counter. Also have B12 deficiency called pernicious anemia. These deficiencies can contribute to depression, memory loss and other physical difficulties, some very serious. Some symptoms I recognize. Going in an hour to get shot which will have to have every 3 months all my life. Also fixed car windshield squirter. I have about 5 warmer days and will use them to trash out the yard and house and do car back brakes. Car is leaking radiator fluid and isn't heating. May have to look at heater core and flush or replace radiator. Will look at hoses first as it is leaking over by the battery somewhere. Life gets busy, but making small progress in numerous areas. Made a real meal for the first time in years after cleaning out part of the kitchen so I could use the stove. Made baked potatoes and a great garbage meatloaf! We are starting to eat more veggies after hitting the fruit store. The grunge garage has become a life changing project.
 
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markviii

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Bill,

I emailed you (if you don't get it, let me know). Congrats on following through with the dr. appointments. And the house progress. And the diet changes. It's all good.

Chris
 
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Phxphenom

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The only thing that matters is progress evidenced by Pictures. You asked to be held accountable so let's see what you have. Is the bedroom better or worse than in the last pic? Hallway? Kitchen?

Take 3 minutes and post a few pics, Bill.
Marc
 

2fat2fly

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Been busy with medical appointments so far this week. Did throw out 3 dumpsters worth including a 27" Sony TV. Broke up a wooden desk that was ruined too. Went to my first Dr's appointment in 5 years and got accepted by dental school yesterday and had X-Rays taken. Need to set appointment. Found I had low vitamin D like Julie. Have to take Rx and then over the counter. Also have B12 deficiency called pernicious anemia. These deficiencies can contribute to depression, memory loss and other physical difficulties, some very serious. Some symptoms I recognize. Going in an hour to get shot which will have to have every 3 months all my life. Also fixed car windshield squirter. I have about 5 warmer days and will use them to trash out the yard and house and do car back brakes. Car is leaking radiator fluid and isn't heating. May have to look at heater core and flush or replace radiator. Will look at hoses first as it is leaking over by the battery somewhere. Life gets busy, but making small progress in numerous areas. Made a real meal for the first time in years after cleaning out part of the kitchen so I could use the stove. Made baked potatoes and a great garbage meatloaf! We are starting to eat more veggies after hitting the fruit store. The grunge garage has become a life changing project.

I'm glad you're sticking to it. Nothing worthwhile is ever easy.
 

TXNinAZ

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If you're put off by the shots, you can take a daily B12 supplement that gives you something around 8000% of the daily recommended value. My wife wasn't a big fan of interrupting life to go to the doctor for an hour just to get a shot, so he approved of the daily pill instead. If your legs have been sore all the time for no obvious reason, they should start to feel better getting the B12 in balance. Great job getting on the way to being healthy- after Julie, that's all you have that really matters.
 

BlueSuedeShoe

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You can do these shots yourself. Just use the kind of syringe that diabetics use for their insulin shots. I would favour a once a month injection over the one in three months option.
I would not recommend pills because most people who have deficiencies cannot absorb the B12 in their intestines.
A lozenge that you put under your tongue can be fine too because it gets absorbed by the skin in your mouth. Or one of those B12 Band-Aids (don't know their name).

Make sure your other B vitamins are alright and the most important minerals Calcium, Magnesium and Zinc.

Wish you the best!
 

welder4956

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Car is leaking radiator fluid and isn't heating. May have to look at heater core and flush or replace radiator. Will look at hoses first as it is leaking over by the battery somewhere.[QUOTE/]

Check the vacuum actuated shutoff valve in the heater hose. If there is no flow, either there is no vacuum or the valve is bad.
 

mikeyr

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***EDIT OOPS, I stopped reading back on page 51 when you were talking about a welder you had, thread has moved on way past that now ***

GREAT post so far, congrats on your works. I am not in the same league but I am trying to clean up also, I have too many duplicate (and triplicate) tools taking up too much space along with just that it has prevented me from working many times. So I am cleaning up as well.

I am in the same boat with the welder, about 12 or so years ago I bought a MIG and used it heavily, my oxy/acet torch almost never got any use after I bought the MIG, mostly as a blue wrench and cutting tool. 8 years ago, I bought a TIG and also a plasma cutter, now my oxy/acet almost never gets used, just occasionally as a blue wrench and my MIG has not been used at all in 8 years (bet the gas bottle is over 10 years old). It just sits there taking up space and collecting dust but I can't bring myself to sell it, there are times when MIG is just better than TIG mostly for reasons of speed, like building a trailer which I don't plan on ever doing again. So it sits taking up precious space.

I also have 2 powder coating ovens, a smaller kitchen oven that was my first oven and a big beast of a oven, at first I kept the smaller oven for smaller parts since it heats up faster but its been 6 years or so since I last used it and it takes up huge space, I have decided to get rid of it dozens of times and its still there.

I have not used my wood lathe in 15-20 years but its taking space too, I told my wire a year or 2 ago I was getting rid of it and if I needed it in the future I would just buy another...but it is still here.

I am trying to start the New Year by getting rid of stuff, I have a rather nice large garage but its difficult to work in because of all the stuff...I tried to type in junk but it came out stuff...

Keep posting, maybe some of your inspiration will rub off on me.

Mike
 
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jblachly

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If you're put off by the shots, you can take a daily B12 supplement that gives you something around 8000% of the daily recommended value. My wife wasn't a big fan of interrupting life to go to the doctor for an hour just to get a shot, so he approved of the daily pill instead. If your legs have been sore all the time for no obvious reason, they should start to feel better getting the B12 in balance. Great job getting on the way to being healthy- after Julie, that's all you have that really matters.

This is an inappropriate place to offer medical advice. Bill said he has pernicious anemia. Unless he posts his intrinsic factor assay results, I don't think he should start taking an oral B12 in lieu of injection for reasons I will not go into here.
 
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bczygan

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Way overdue for a progress report and some photos. Am just starting to crank up things after the holidays. One week we only had a couple trash cans out, but yesterday I was back up to 7. The past week has been unseasonably warm for Detroit with temps in the high 30's, 40's and even 50's. I have spent much of it outside putting finishing touches on the front and side yard and cleaning up the front porch and walk that had a bunch of junk piled up on them. Here are photos of the outside now. Yes, I still need to get rid of 3 trailers and store the 4th. Note that there is no grass because of the deep shade from too many trees. In the spring I will thin the forest when I clean out the back yard. Then maybe grass will grow. The work done doesn't show because I didn't take before photos but included the following.
Raking neighbors berm and cleaning gutter and picking up leaves. Doing the same on my side as well as raking up entire front and side yard and berms. Chopping down remaining grasses. Demolishing and disposing of a wooden desk and putting away numerous coolers. Sorting boxes of stuff from on the porch and front walk and disposing of stuff and putting the rest away in bins. Edging walk and getting dirt off of edges where it had accumulated. This will make it easier to run snow blower. Pulling ivy vines off brick up as far as I could reach. Also cleaned upstairs hall and last window in Master bedroom. Porch, walk, front yard and side yard are now neat except for the aforementioned trailers, A couple small spots of leaves to rake, a compost bin to put in the back yard, a car top carrier that will be put away in a day or so, and the Nissan PU which is sold to a neighbor (Who will remove it shortly).
 

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rwhite692

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Looks great, Bill. Any progress toward getting running water and heat? Roof repairs?

Maybe it's just me, but those seem bit more urgent than edging the walk and raking leaves...
 

novaboy009

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I dunno about you guys, but when my water and heat aren't working, I go figure out how to make them work. And when I have so much junk in my house that I can't get in many of the rooms.... well, I don't know, but I think I would probably clean that up before raking leaves and making the yard pretty in January.
 
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bczygan

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Today I am working on the Office. This is phase 3.
First phase was where the door was completely blocked and stuff was bulging out of the room. Cleaned it up enough to get into the room.
Phase 2 allowed me to get through the middle of the room from end to end. This caused me to refill the stair with stuff. It still needs to be gone through.
I have begun phase 3 today. The photos below show after some work has been done. But as I write this I have cleared out the entire middle of the room leaving things around the perimeter. I have access to both windows and have opened the one blocked by ivy and have started hacking and pulling it off. Some boxes have gone in the hall and bedroom to be sorted.
This will take way more than a day.

Standing there in the room, looking at all the stuff, thinking about how much all the computers cost, and it came to me.

1. I've not used any of these things in years.
2. It is all obsolete. There are cheap EMachines and old style monitors and homemade systems and components. There are 2 old Cad workstations. There is SCSI stuff (Pun intended) and old Syquest drives and early Pentium machines. Even some old Dell laptops. There are even some carcasses I picked up off the curb. There are cabinets full of 1.44 meg floppy disks. There are even trays of the old 1.2 meg floppies.
3. To make it a nice modern spare and sparse office, this all needs to go. To make room for the 2 or 3 laptops we use all the time. Maybe one extra laptop can go in the garage or kitchen.

It is hard to part with these things. They are so very dear to my heart. I am tempted to find space in a shed for them.

BUT...........that is avoiding the truth. They must be out of my life. Just as the Nissan and extra pop ups and myriad of other things must go. No matter what they originally cost or how usable they still are.
 

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JC23

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That last paragraph was huge, Bill. Congrats on giving yerself a better mindset.

What are ya gonna do with 'em?
 
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bczygan

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Looks great, Bill. Any progress toward getting running water and heat? Roof repairs?

Maybe it's just me, but those seem bit more urgent than edging the walk and raking leaves...

I need, number one, to keep the neighbors happy. They notice every little thing. I have been disgorging things out onto the front porch and walk and even the side entry. It's a mess. If I can get it cleaned up to community standards with no junk cars and trailers (Except the Airstream), then I am freer to concentrate on the rest of the yard and house unhindered.

Permanent water and heat solutions would be first on the list if the entire house and yard weren't an issue. In a normal house where a heat problem occurred you just solve that problem. When the water springs a leak, you deal with that.

In this case, the entire house and yard make life a difficult, time consuming process. Just getting a meal fixed is a major thing that takes a lot of time to do. I have to climb over stuff to get to food items and get things from the fridge in the living room and microwave them in the living room and then cook them on the stove in the kitchen. There used to be similar problems with getting dressed when we had no access to dressers in the bedroom.
And the permanent water and heat require a gargantuan task of cleaning out the basement, just to get access. So the usual order is reversed here.
The office is next on the list because Julie has expressed interest in cleaning it out. Plus we need to find titles to things to sell them.
The more normal I can get the house as a whole, the easier daily life becomes and the more time I have to deal with the big projects. Is there a little avoidance involved? Yes, there honestly is. But my bites of the apple are getting bigger and I still see a vision of normal rooms with normal life going on in them. I even see a normal yard with a normal amount of trees and one outbuilding instead of numerous sheds.
Thank you for your concern. If I were you I WOULD be doing things the other way around. I would probably be working from a different beginning point and with my mind unfettered with the roadblocks I put in my way. It IS my fervent desire to be you. To be a person who will never again let himself get in this fix. To be a person who deals with things in the proper priority. Who lives in balance and deals with things rather than avoiding them.
I am working on it.
 

Kevin54

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I have to say one thing, my neck is getting a good workout looking at pics? :lol_hitti

Bill....what are you going to do with the Airstream trailer?

BTW...nice job on getting the outside cleaned up :thumbup::bowdown:
 

Nighttrain

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Bill the yard looks much better than it did six months ago when you first posted. BUT you are escaping the reality of the house by working outside. The pictures of your office are the same as it was months ago. I think you are seeing immediate results of doing the yard work because it is easy to throw away 7 garbage cans of leaves. Challenge yourself and throw out one garbage can of old computer stuff TODAY. I bet when you’re done it may make your feel better.

I have been finishing up my shop and I have a ton of old tools which where my fathers. I have been hauling them around for years and never used them. They are old outdated saws, drills etc. Yesterday I looked at them and thought about this thread, they are now in a box and ready to haul to the Goodwill this weekend.
Get in the fight Bill you are spinning your feet.
 

markviii

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Bill,

It's looking good! Helping the neighbor is, I'm sure, a needed help as well as a good exchange their goodwill.

I don't have much grass at my house because of all the walnut trees. I've been using lots of mulch and flagstone paths to keep it presentable. I have 3 Master Gardeners as neighbors and just listen to their suggestions. They bring informal tours through all year, so I guess it's acceptable!

Google "Detroit Electronics Recycling" to find free drop off sites. Since you can't legally put the stuff in your garbage dumpsters anymore, lots of places have organized to get this type of recycling done. Some even pick up. Around us, Goodwill has may drop off sites. I use to have my own computer hardware/software retail business (mid-80s) and still have some of my vendor sample machines. Some are going to a museum - they still work! Over the years, others were donated to a youth project that was teaching inner-city disadvantaged (don't you just love that terminology?) teenagers to troubleshoot and repair computers. I taught some of these kids in school and found out they were networking them to sell drugs - they were way into social media before there was even such a thing!. That project didn't last longer than the city grant. Most of the students on free- and reduced-lunch seem to have cell phones, computers and plenty of spending money. They're fairly computer literate - I just wish I could have motivated them better to read an actual school book! Not top of their priority list, I guess.

Oops! Sorry for the off-topic stuff! (I type too slowly!)

Great work going on there. We finally got snow today, so maybe it's on the way to you. You'll probably be getting the mixed rain/snow tonight and tomorrow. We certainly needed the precip here. I'm staying inside and starting on my taxes. (How's the property tax bill coming?)

Chris
 

kevin206

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I just found this thread and I'm not taking the time to read all the pages, but I commend you on taking the first steps to gain control of your life. I too am a hoarder. I stopped seeing my shrink a few months ago because I realized that $100 a month in co-pays and the two hours in session and the three or four hours waiting could be put to much better use. Unfortunately, I'm using the time and money to troll pawn shops and the like. I know most people don't understand our need to have and keep everything, but I know that the things that you have already accomplished are huge...even if no one seems to believe that.
 

markviii

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kevin206 - thanks for sharing your new-found self-awareness. Not a good idea to stop seeing your shrink, but it's your call. Now use the time and money to make your own positive progress toward recapturing your life and space. Use what you've seen on this thread as a motivation to get started on your own reformation (did you finish insulating the pole building yet?). Be a doer, not just a poster. You're a creative guy, but seem to have taken a haitus from life to "troll the pawnshops", where I guarantee you won't find satisfaction (although I may be wrong since I never set foot in one! - also I hope you didn't fill the pole building with anything other than what it was originally built for). Just the money and time repurposed in a productive way will make a great difference in your outlook. Don't spend it going back to read all the pages; make your own parallel progress as you seem to be in what is a parallel universe.

Best wishes from The Center of the Universe where all things are possible.

(Sorry for hijacking the thread, Bill.)

Chris
 
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bczygan

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I just found this thread and I'm not taking the time to read all the pages, but I commend you on taking the first steps to gain control of your life. I too am a hoarder. I stopped seeing my shrink a few months ago because I realized that $100 a month in co-pays and the two hours in session and the three or four hours waiting could be put to much better use. Unfortunately, I'm using the time and money to troll pawn shops and the like. I know most people don't understand our need to have and keep everything, but I know that the things that you have already accomplished are huge...even if no one seems to believe that.

Kevin206,
Thank you for your post. It helps me to know there are others out there who suffer the same way, and understand in a very basic way, what it is like.
That said, we can help each other. Take some time to read this thread and see some of the ups and downs. Share some of the support and criticism I've gotten and know you can do the same as me. It isn't easy by any means, and there are setbacks and very slow progress. But begin every day and keep on beginning. Start very small, but keep on pushing. You WILL make progress.
I need to add to the above advice. Your most difficulty is in changing your attitudes toward things. Think of things for their intrinsic value. How will I use this? When will I use it? Where will it go in my house and what accessory items will be needed to operate it? In other words, an item is NOT a great buy with the rush a bargain gives you. Rather, you must start thinking of the things you have or need to have in terms of what they really are for. And you must treasure and care for them. This means making a specific place for them and actually using them. I find that when I get a deal on something I tend to devalue it and then just chuck it in a corner after short use and just let it deteriorate.
So here is a plan for you that is slowly working for me. Start by throwing away true trash. Things that are ruined and total junk. This will be easy to do because these things cannot be used for anything. It will also give you some space to work in. Start in one room and in one small area. This will start to give you some successes and make you feel better about yourself. I am convinced that depression and self worth issues contribute to this problem as well as feelings of lack of security. So as you feel more in control of your environment and better about yourself and how you live, it will start moving into other parts of your life. You will start caring about everything.
The second step is throwing away things that are broken and could be fixed. This is harder, but if you can come to the realization that they are an anchor around your neck that immobilize you, you can learn to dispose of them as well.
The third and hardest thing is letting go of perfectly usable things. Here you need to truly value yourself and by extension, your things. Just keep the best of the best. One or two of an item at most, and even then, everything must have it's place, and by place I DO NOT mean long term storage. Other stuff and multiples must find another place to live.
This doesn't mean you just throw away everything of value. You can offer things for sale, but after a time it is better to rid yourself of the responsibility of having it. It's a case of diminishing returns where the effort to keep it is greater than the value of the item. Give it away, or if that is too much time and effort to expend, just trash it.
Part of the process is actually getting new things, which is a pleasure in itself. But you will be buying specific things for particular purposes. For instance, you will be finding cabinets and cases and shelving and tables to house and accommodate your things. You will have specific places for these to go before you get them and also particular items designated to go on or in them.
It's not about getting rid of everything, but in deciding what is really important and valuing that. Focus on the things you really want to do and honor those possessions that give you those capabilities. Become the master of your domain rather than letting your things control you. It is slow and difficult simply because you cannot change the way you think, feel and act overnight. But if you start by doing something, even though you don't fully feel like doing it yet, then the mind will follow. Fake it til you make it.
The reward is joy and freedom and empowerment.
 
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Kev442

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Bill,

I am probably going to get reamed for side tracking you when you have a mountain to climb, but your old computers do have a rather large value, just not the way you think. The older a PC is, the more valuable the circuit/motherboards are to recyclers. You need cash too!

You need to get 4 boxes and take your PC's apart. Put the wiring harnesses in one box, the mother/daughter boards in another, the floppy drives and hard drives in a third and the plain metal in (a large) 4th. You get to play with your new drill/driver!

You are going to be pleasantly surprised by what the scrap yard gives you for the sorted stuff. Be sure they separate the high value boards from the low value, there is a huge price difference in them. The 286 and 386 PC's will pay handsomely.

I took in a car trunkload of motherboards, copper pipe and pure copper scrap, aluminum and wiring and walked out with $180 last week. The CRT monitors are wrapped with a huge ball of pure copper and they have the balls to charge us $15 to get rid of them around here.

Now, get to it!!
 

markviii

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Well said, Bill! And it was a bit late (early?) when I last posted. I just re-read it and I really didn't mean to sound unwelcoming or not understanding (maybe even a bit bit***y, which is just not me). By all means go back and read the entire thread, Kevin206. Bill and Julie continue to share their journey through a life transformation and hopefully you'll be able to begin (or continue?) that process, too! Posting here shows you understand you have issues and may be ready to address them. Maybe checking in here will support you on your journey as you can support others who check in here.
WELCOME!!! Now I've got to get something done! I wasted the day away dealing with the heating company with a boiler at one of the apartments, supervising carpet installation at another building and making sure all the sidewalks were shoveled at 4 of the apartment buildings (required by the city after 2" of snow; just wish the wind would stop blowing so it looked like I actually did something!). I was just avoiding doing the laundry (one of my least favorite chores)!

Chris
 
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Need4racin

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Bill start writing out a to do list. If you don't plan with goals, you achieve what you planned for, nothing.

Example:

7:30 wake up
7:30-8 Breakfast
8-8:45 Get cleaned up
9:00-noon Throw out books where info can be found on internet
12-1 Lunch
1- Throw trash outside
2- Load old electronics in truck to take to recycler
3- Vacuum/dust room
5- Show Wife progress

Redo the schedule for the next day.
 
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bczygan

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Bill start writing out a to do list. If you don't plan with goals, you achieve what you planned for, nothing.

Example:

7:30 wake up
7:30-8 Breakfast
8-8:45 Get cleaned up
9:00-noon Throw out books where info can be found on internet
12-1 Lunch
1- Throw trash outside
2- Load old electronics in truck to take to recycler
3- Vacuum/dust room
5- Show Wife progress

Redo the schedule for the next day.

Damn!
I have really been meaning to do this. You are so right. Without a specific set of goals and a timeline or schedule for accomplishing them, time will pass, but the result may not be what you desire.

Today
9-10 Breakfast
10-noon Fix trailer tire and attach trailer to van.
Noon - 4 Sort boxes from office
5-7 Sort boxes on stairs
7-8 Dinner
9-10 free time
Rest
 

welder4956

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2010
Messages
3,063
Location
Birmingham, AL USA
Damn!
I have really been meaning to do this. You are so right. Without a specific set of goals and a timeline or schedule for accomplishing them, time will pass, but the result may not be what you desire.

Today
9-10 Breakfast
10-noon Fix trailer tire and attach trailer to van.
Noon - 4 Sort boxes from office
5-7 Sort boxes on stairs
7-8 Dinner
9-10 free time
Rest

I hope "sort" means "throw most of it away". Otherwise, you're not making progress. I'm really disappointed you have not made significant progress since August. Still no heat or water. The basement should have been the first place to clear. Get a roll-off dumpster and start filling it with everything from the basement.
 
OP
B

bczygan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 4, 2009
Messages
22,002
Location
DETROIT! Arsenal of Scrappers
I hope "sort" means "throw most of it away". Otherwise, you're not making progress. I'm really disappointed you have not made significant progress since August. Still no heat or water. The basement should have been the first place to clear. Get a roll-off dumpster and start filling it with everything from the basement.


It does! Just filled 2 ********* trash cans. Took a 1 hour "old man nap", had something to eat. Julie cleaned out the closet and threw away 5 boxes of shoes!
Time to get to the boxes on the stairs.....
 

Rocketdaemon

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
Messages
5
Vintage cad work stations are pretty much useless thesedays doesnt matter if they costed 20.000 when new and program aswell, today freesoftware run on an standard pc will outpreform the old cad stuff, and when you ever would get yourself into doing some cad stuff it will be years from now anyway as you have alot more important stuff to do.

You probally came to the same conclusion just wanted to give an thumbs up!
Get rid of old manuals aswell.. unless you don't have anything that gets money from ebay its just to the recycle farm with it. several year yellowed old cdrom readers and burners are worthless, brand new much better ones costs nothing thesedays.. you do not need them either.. i've thrown away tons of stuff last month myself.. i've come almost to a point i do like clean space more then stuff. one thing i hate is to have to move stuff to reach other stuff.. everything should be usefull and reachable,
 
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