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Grunge Garage

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bczygan

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Bill, did something crawl up from the basement and gobble You up?:shocking:

HELP!..........................It's..................got.....................me.........................by..............................................the............................leg!:shocking:

The other group is great. Not as droll as you guys though.

Just finished clearing out part of the garage to put some more tool items in there from the living room and clean up the front yard once and for all. Tomorrow will be very busy finishing the living room and installing the couch with love seat and rug and pulling last tool items out (Rolling cart and grinder). Tomorrow night I pick up 3 sections of scaffolding to use for working on the fascias and roof work and pulling ivy off the chimney. Photos after tomorrow.

PS,
No Garage Sales. Friday, Julie sent me lots of links to nearby ones and then wanted to go Saturday morning. I refused. She spent the day sulking but got over it by Sunday. I decided to be my family's leader in this regard. I'm not just cleaning a house and yard, but straightening out cluttered thinking and ways of acting that effect all areas of our lives.

Bill
 
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reddog289

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Good to see your making progress, I hear you on the Garage Sale deal. If your trying to clean up your place , No sense in bringing in more stuff.
 

vartz04

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you have crusted **** all over everything in your basement. F#(& the ivy on the chimney. F#(& the front yard. get the **** stained boxes out of your basement and get your running water/heat working again then go **** around with landscaping.
 
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bczygan

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you have crusted **** all over everything in your basement. F#(& the ivy on the chimney. F#(& the front yard. get the **** stained boxes out of your basement and get your running water/heat working again then go **** around with landscaping.

I have a plan and I am working the plan. The plan is step by step all the way to completion on the house and yard. That is something I couldn't face, much less plan, until now.
First priority must be keeping up appearances with the neighbors. I've had complaints and they need to be addressed first. This means keeping the front yard clear and clearing the last pile on the side yard and removing or selling 3 more trailers. No, I won't worry about the ivy or missing fascia or even the leaking roof for now. But keeping the patch of grass cut and edged, the hedge trimmed, the streets and sidewalks swept and the piles of stuff in the back yard, out of sight, must be and will be done.
Second priority is the living room because the couch is in the van and I need to empty that to get the scaffolding. The tool cart and grinder table need to go in the garage which is now ready for them. The refrigerator that is there must go into the kitchen which brings up the fourth priority.
Fourth priority is getting a usable kitchen. This means clearing and cleaning it and disposing of a refrigerator.
Fifth priority is getting hot and water running again. This requires the basement be cleared and cleaned. To do that, I need good access. That means back walk and back hall cleared. This means that the stuff I have put on the back walk from everywhere else needs final sorting, disposal and storage of the remainder. And tools in the back hall need to go in the garage. That's part of the reason I worked on the garage.
All these things work in conjunction with each other. If I had started with the basement, which I couldn't face at the time, I would still have a house crammed to the hilt and no desire to be here. It might have been a better and more efficient way to go, but this is the path chosen and it is working. I started out small and then eventually got to where I could clear and clean whole rooms at a time. That process has gotten me to where I almost have a completely clear house with every room usable. When I get to the basement (And I can't wait!), I will have a clear and presentable front and side yard, and access and use, of all the other rooms of my house. After the basement and water, heat is the priority, along with the back yard. With the house in fairly good shape, I can do this and finally have a decent place. Many fix up and organize and repair projects will remain. But we will have a decent beginning point.

Bill
 
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takeiteasy

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Bill, it seems pretty obvious that your plan is working. I understand you've got a plan and it sure seems to be working and you're making good progress! Really interested to see the pics once they're ready! Hope you're enjoying the journey!
 

NickTheNut

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No offense Bill, but your priorities are way off; Having running water in your home is 5th. FIFTH? Sweeping public property takes place over having running water???

Plain and simple, that should be number 1. NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

Who cares what the neighbors think about your lawn? You have a leaking roof and a basement, quite literally, full of ****. And you're worried about "keeping up appearances". If they don't like it, tell them to mow your lawn, or, tell them to sweep public property. Every time you give an update you tell us how you spent time "sweeping and cleaning the sidewalk". WHY DOES THIS TAKE YOU SO LONG?! I mow my lawn, and sweep my sidewalk every weekend. Guess how long it takes me? 30 minutes.

You really don't get it, do you Bill?
 

Bronson

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Bill, keep it up. If You werent so far away, I would come lend a hand!
PLEASE be careful on the scaffolding. You have come to far to get hurt now!:shocking:
 

mdbeck1

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Actually I can kind of understand where Bill is coming from. With the sewage problem his house could easily be condemned or declared "uninhabitable". If he doesn't keep up appearances the neighbors could turn him in and he would be out on the street.

However being on the outside and having tackled some fairly large projects I probably would have attacked the basement first and got my water, ac, heat, sewer working first as well. The neighbors would have seen multiple trailer loads leaving the property and probably would have been happy I was cleaning the place up.

But this is Bill's journey not mine. I will add comments from time to time and offer suggestions when asked.

Keep going Bill. I am seeing progress and I think that you are as well.
 
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bczygan

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Actually I can kind of understand where Bill is coming from. With the sewage problem his house could easily be condemned or declared "uninhabitable". If he doesn't keep up appearances the neighbors could turn him in and he would be out on the street.

However being on the outside and having tackled some fairly large projects I probably would have attacked the basement first and got my water, ac, heat, sewer working first as well. The neighbors would have seen multiple trailer loads leaving the property and probably would have been happy I was cleaning the place up.

But this is Bill's journey not mine. I will add comments from time to time and offer suggestions when asked.

Keep going Bill. I am seeing progress and I think that you are as well.

This!

I would go directly to the basement if there were no eyes on me and if I had access. But like a lot of hoarders, I have to do one thing to do another thing to do the next thing.

Today I finally got the rolling tool cart and grinder on a table out of the living room and into the garage. Had to empty the roller and remove the drawers. What a lengthy pain in the ***. Especially since I had to reassemble in the driveway and hang a sheet to hide it from prying eyes and reorganize the garage to make room. Hot sweaty work, but no tools left in the living room!!!
Tonight I'll work on finishing clearing the living room in prep for installing carpet and the couch from the van. Rescheduled scaffold for tomorrow night.

I'm seeing lots of progress and hungry every day for more.

Bill
 

quietsailor

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Cork, Ireland
Hi folks,

This is my first post on GJ so I wanted to say hello to you all first and especially bczygan.

I’ve had to help a friend clear out the house of a family member that died and it was tough on my friend seeing the items being dumped. In the end I made him stay in the house and decide what was being dumped and I carried the stuff outside and dumped it – it helped him avoid the pain of seeing it going into a dumpster.

Talking about the dumpsters. We had 3 in a row backed into the driveway, from front to back they were – landfill, wood, metal. The landfill filled very quickly, the wood had to be emptied after 2 landfill dumpsters were gone and the metal only filled by the end of the day. It set up a system and made sorting easy. The metal was also sold to the company to bring the dumpster hire price down.

You’ve had offers of help from others on here, (I’d help but I’m over in Cork City, Ireland so it’s a bit too far to travel) would you allow anyone to help you like this?

Finally it’s been a fantastic thread to read, I understand now why my friend and his relation were the way they were/are – thank you for that.

Shane
 

Nighttrain

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But like a lot of hoarders, I have to do one thing to do another thing to do the next thing.


Bill, I think this is the first time you have admitted this, maybe not but It stands out. Keep going with your cycle that is working for you.
 

nine4gmc

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Mar 24, 2012
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your story is heartfelt. though i have hoarding tendencies, they are not as bad as a few of my really close friends, one neighbor and definitely not to your extent. I collect "things you can purt things in" mostly but will not throw away anything usable. I do however, put a price on things I don't use often or have duplicates of and donate or cl free ad the really low value items. one of my extreme hoarder friends is a local scrapper, I donate a lot of stuff to him but have to be careful because if he thinks it is in any way useable, he makes room for it at home or one of the 5 storage buildings of straight **** he rents. mentally, you are doing much better than my scrap guy but hes on more of a budget so he has much less junk, he just will not separate from it. I tell him all the time, he says he wishes he could see it in "black and white" like I do but its deeper than that. even on broken junk, just thinks that the more he has the more he is worth. more junk makes you worth less, period.

I like your attitude and though it has been a long roller coaster thread, I like your progress and wish you the best.
 

Kevin54

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I have a plan and I am working the plan. The plan is step by step all the way to completion on the house and yard. That is something I couldn't face, much less plan, until now.
First priority must be keeping up appearances with the neighbors. I've had complaints and they need to be addressed first. This means keeping the front yard clear and clearing the last pile on the side yard and removing or selling 3 more trailers. No, I won't worry about the ivy or missing fascia or even the leaking roof for now. But keeping the patch of grass cut and edged, the hedge trimmed, the streets and sidewalks swept and the piles of stuff in the back yard, out of sight, must be and will be done.
Second priority is the living room because the couch is in the van and I need to empty that to get the scaffolding. The tool cart and grinder table need to go in the garage which is now ready for them. The refrigerator that is there must go into the kitchen which brings up the fourth priority.
Fourth priority is getting a usable kitchen. This means clearing and cleaning it and disposing of a refrigerator.
Fifth priority is getting hot and water running again. This requires the basement be cleared and cleaned. To do that, I need good access. That means back walk and back hall cleared. This means that the stuff I have put on the back walk from everywhere else needs final sorting, disposal and storage of the remainder. And tools in the back hall need to go in the garage. That's part of the reason I worked on the garage.
All these things work in conjunction with each other. If I had started with the basement, which I couldn't face at the time, I would still have a house crammed to the hilt and no desire to be here. It might have been a better and more efficient way to go, but this is the path chosen and it is working. I started out small and then eventually got to where I could clear and clean whole rooms at a time. That process has gotten me to where I almost have a completely clear house with every room usable. When I get to the basement (And I can't wait!), I will have a clear and presentable front and side yard, and access and use, of all the other rooms of my house. After the basement and water, heat is the priority, along with the back yard. With the house in fairly good shape, I can do this and finally have a decent place. Many fix up and organize and repair projects will remain. But we will have a decent beginning point.

Bill

I see a problem. You are still moving stuff around from here to there then from there to here. Your second priority is the living room. I thought you had that cleaned out long ago, and now you're dragging a tool cart and a grinder out of there? WTF. It will soon be coming up on the one year anniversary of when you started this thread. Almost a complete year. 283 days to be exact, 40 weeks and three days.

You have all of your priorities fucked up, plain and simple. Again you have had countless members on here that we willing to help. Physically and spiritually and willing to donate some cash. You refused. Now you go to a support group of Hoarders that are probably doing nothing but sitting around stroking each others egos.

Your problem Bill, is.......YOU kEEP MOVING **** AROUND. Throw the **** away.

Priority #1.....Get the damn roof fixed. THe ivy is slowly tearing things apart and with a roof leaking, you are ruining the house every time it rains.

Priority #2.....Get some running water and heat. In your own words
Fifth priority is getting hot and water running again.

This is from March
The basement can NOT wait. I MUST have water heater in the next month and heat by fall.

And this comes up in quite a bit of your threads
Stacked up a pile of brush and put away 15 rakes and shovels. Raked a pile of leaves. Trimmed bushes and cut up and put in trash.

You keep doing things that doesn't amount to a hill of ****. Nothing.

In life, it is almost everyones goal to own a house and make a home. That is the #1 goal of almost everyone on this planet, or at least it is in the United States. We were taught and brought up to work hard and achieve that goal. Not just me, not just the members on here, but almost everyone you meet on a daily basis. And Bill, you just take that **** for granted. Was it never a goal of yours to have a nice place. Was it a goal in life to live like filth, yet brag about things like "I have 17 trailers". What satisfaction does that give you knowing that you have that many one on hand, and on the other, everyone else things your two sandwiches shy of a picnic for having them.

And I must admit, that when you mention you are sorting things and found out that a rat has **** and pissed on the items, but it will clean up, it does make you a rather unique individual. No one else would put up with it as nonchalantly as you do. For instance, if there is a rat in my house, everything is going outside and I'm setting up shotgun watch. A mouse is bad enough, but a disease carrying rat living under my roof, EFF that.

Most people are catching on Bill. You speak and write very intelligently. You are a bright person. So when confronted by a few individuals, you write on an open forum and tell the person exactly what they want to hear, so you don't have to hear what an actual reply might be. You thrive on the replies you get like "YOU GO BILL" or "Man you're making great headway" and TAKE IT A BITE AT A TIME BILL, YOU'LL GET THERE".

And in the meantime, you continue to surf other forums, go buy some more tools, you still have 17 trailers that you can't do **** with, three of which are in your driveway, a couch stacked on top of scaffolding in a van, **** still sitting in the back yard, basement not touched, then the roof, facia, ivy, and every other little thing not mentioned. But the weather's nice, so maybe rake some leaves again today up and down the neighborhood or help the neighbor clean up his yard.

Bill, it's time for you to own up to all on here, that you have been basically bullshitting. The stuff you have done so far is way short of anything miraculous or outstanding. You cleaned a room or two, and continue to shuffle stuff around. When you need a "people fix" you come back on here after a few questions are asked about "Where's Bill been" and "Maybe the basement has swallowed him up". Then and only then do you make your presence and give them one or two things that you have done, which if it was most people doing it would only amount to about two or three hours work.

If you are real serious about getting things done, you would get them done or at least make one hell of an effort. You aren't making the effort and you know it. You refuse help, you refuse donations, and you really refuse advice or instructions on how to do it. If you look at the ones that have been giving you advice, you will also notice how they live. Tools in the garage, rakes and mowers in the shed, their refrigerators are in the kitchen along with the stove, food in the cupboards, and not covered in rat and mouse ****. But you won't listen to that type because they "don't understand".

Personally I feel kind of sorry for a person that has an affliction or sickness called "Hoarding". They hang on to every thing because they can use it for this or for that. They collect. I don't feel sorry for a person that is called "Lazy". That is the person that get done with a can of pop and leaves the can set. They get done eating off of a paper plate and leave the plate set. Their roof leaks and they'll fix it after it quits raining, but all of a sudden, it's not leaking now since the sun is out. Or the person that looks at a room that is full of trash, old papers, and more trash, then says "I'll tackle that tomorrow"

You started this thread Bill. It evolved into where it is at now. 83 pages long. 83 pages that you have stroked people by pouring your heart out, asking for help mentally so you could tackle this, argue with some because you HAVE to follow YOUR plan, and still no real headway on your part. And according to the above statement that you wrote. Still no water and no heat.

Bill....this is just a personal thought, but instead of getting yourself mixed up with conflictions of stories and contradictions of statements and people coming on here and either praising you or calling you out, for you, wouldn't it just be easier to ask the mods to delete this thread? Then you can do what you want at your leisure and if you get something done, fine. If not, fine. But you won't be held accountable for your actions and you won't have to come up with excuses as to why you have only cleaned out a couple of rooms in a years time. :dunno:
 

vartz04

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spot on kevin. people build custom houses in half the time that you have been cleaning garbage out of yours.

Id be willing to bet (anyone who wants to take the bet can PM me) that bill will be missing either running water or heat when october's fall chill sets in.

I am almost 100% certain that his house will not be cleaned and repaired by the end of 2012.
 

civhatch90

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spot on kevin. people build custom houses in half the time that you have been cleaning garbage out of yours.

Id be willing to bet (anyone who wants to take the bet can PM me) that bill will be missing either running water or heat when october's fall chill sets in.

I am almost 100% certain that his house will not be cleaned and repaired by the end of 2012.

Well the difference is that he is not building custom houses, he is dealing with a mental illness. Many of you seem to fail to see this. He is making slow and steady progress that's what matters. The house now looks much better than it did two months ago. That is progress. Whether his priorities are straight or not it is the way he has chosen to deal with the problem at hand and it seems to be working.
 

BigWil

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I've been watching this thread since it started, but haven't posted in awhile. I agree with Kevin. I understand that Bill is dealing with a mental illness, but there still is no excuse.

Bill: I have a challenge for you. I'm going to be in Michigan in September to visit family. I'm driving down from Newfoundland, should be going through Michigan around the 20th. I challenge to have the following finished: basement cleaned out, furnace replaced, plumbing repaired, ivy removed and the roof fixed. If you have that done, I'll stop by, take pictures, and be an independent witness for the Garage Journal. I will also provide a case of your favourite beer/bottle of your favourite liquor. I will also bring some celebratory Cuban cigars, if you enjoy them.

In my opinion, and in that of many others on this forum, there is no excuse why it can't be done. If you want to up the ante, and put some more commitment into your situation, I'll take a bottle of Crown Royal if you don't get it done...not because I want the booze, but so you have some stake in the situation.

I will also make myself available for the day to help you with any heavy stuff you need help moving.

Finally, don't worry about the upstairs, don't worry about what the neighbours say. Get the important stuff done, keep the front lawn in reasonable shape, but don't spend too much time on it. Hell, don't even worry about the kitchen, just clear a path so you can get going on the basement.
 
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bczygan

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BigWil (And Kevin),
I appreciate both of you because you have a Gung-ho attitude that I haven't mustered yet. I don't have a fire in the belly. I have fear and panic in the belly. The element that I haven't got in the mix yet is set goals with deadlines. Hell, I just got to the point where I can look forward to more than just the next day without panic. I am setting daily goals, which almost always take twice as long as expected. And I am working on things most every day, rather than a day or so per week. No, I don't get up at 7 and work hard on it all day. Haven't even started yet today. It is hard to get started. I don't know why. Once started, I want to take any opportunity to quit. And then it's hard to start again. But once I do a big stretch of work, I love the result. It's this way for all of us on the hoarders group. I don't know why. But we are all making progress. It is just so slow compared to what you would do. I was like you in the old days. Just hit it hard til done. Hit the hardest part first. Boom!
I have a couch sitting on the front walk and have to finish clearing the living room and bring it in so we can go get the scaffolding at 4.
I'll be thinking seriously about your suggestions while I do it.

Oh,
A couple things. The other group does give encouragement and even suggestions. The real value is knowing the same exact things are going on with other people. You see how they are dealing with them and succeeding. You have to find your own path and speed of recovery. What I've learned is this. And I'll put this in bold because it is the crux of the illness.

This is not an illness of being lazy and messy. It isn't even about being willing to live in clutter and bad conditions. It is a disorder where you gradually withdraw from life, quitting all the usual activities and responsibilities and suffering a slow social and mental and physical death. The only way out is to force yourself to begin facing your demons, enduring the fear and panic and start doing the things you quit. I had quit doing everything. Car repair, home maintenance, health and exercise, financial responsibilities, social interaction, even ***. So you not only have to overcome your fears about dealing with each of these areas, but also whatever it was that caused you to initially withdraw. Starting this thread was the beginning of my coming back out into the world party. It continues at a faster rate on the other group. I'm facing more and dealing with more every day. At one point I didn't see any hope and just wanted to pack it all in. I'm light years from that now, but not quite up to your standards or expectations. I will get there. Keep posting what normal is so I have a reference point to shoot for. One way I know I'm getting better is that I'm reading your comments with less stress and panic and seriously thinking about how to do them.
As far as this thread is concerned. It has become less important for me and my recovery and cleanup. But I feel obligated to keep some updates posted. And those that have read it deserve to hear about the happy ending at the conclusion when everything is cleaned up and fixed and I am living differently.
Later.
 
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BigWil

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Bill, I understand how tough it is to get going...that is why I set a realistic challenge for you: it would give you approximately 4 months to get the basement/plumbing/heating and crucial exterior stuff done. It's nice weather now, so it's definitely the time to focus on those items. Think like the ant, not the grasshopper. Get the stuff done to have a warm, clean winter...and while you are warm and clean, you can work on the interior stuff this winter. I'm just trying to help you prioritize a little better...I'm sure the city will understand that the yard and stuff isn't priority while working on the interior. At least you are working on it, and the house isn't empty/occupied by squatters/turned into a drug den.
 

NickTheNut

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Agree with Kevin 100%.

I would venture to say, that honestly, Bills house will never get cleaned out.

Bill, I do have a question; what have you been doing? I mean, really, I don't recall you mentioning that you have a job. Let's be generous and say you get 10 hours of sleep a night. That leaves 14 hours of your day available. I know you'll want and deserve some leisure time. But seriously, it does not take 10+ hours to rake leaves, mow the lawn, or put something away.

Mental illness or no, clearly you're not even trying.
 
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-Brent-

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Are you a man that has a disorder or are you a disorder that happens to be named Bill? If you're a man WITH a disorder than you can be bigger than it. I have proof in a fellow, I know, named Leon whom travels into NYC via train/subway. Leon has agoraphobia. At one point in his life he stayed in his home (and didn't leave) for over 5 years. He's bigger than his disorder. This guy is one of the bravest people I know. He got help - but mostly it's what he did with the lessons he learned.

Here's the reality, Bill, your house -with the way you're currently behaving - is going to eventually be condemned.

A person that has a disorder can accomplish what they set out to but that's not always true for a "disordered" person. You can accomplish the thing you originally set out to. I reject the weak-toned writing you've posted up in your last attempts to smooth things over with those requesting info from you.

So, does Bill own the disorder or does it own Bill? Answer that question, Bill. I'm not looking for public response, just answer it to yourself. Lesser people with greater disabilities have accomlplished more.
 

mx842

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Feb 24, 2011
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Richmond Va
OK,
So this is an existing single car attached garage here in Detroit. House is a 2 story brick colonial on a corner lot.
Here's the interesting part.......me and the wife are hoarders!
I'm making this admission here because I know there are more of us lurking out there. I want this to encourage them (And myself) that change is possible.

Existing conditions:
The house and garage are packed to the rafters.
I've built 7 sheds to hold the overflow.
All this on a 40x100 lot!

This is going to be about a lifestyle change for us both.
I'm counting on the OC among you to help us find ways to be more like you.
First step is going to be a clean out and reorganizing of the existing approx. 9x18 garage. I've begun today. For the last few years I couldn't even get into the garage from the inside or outside doors. I slid over a pile of stuff at the inside door today and began moving items from in front of me to behind me, working my way to the outside door. Kind of like those little puzzles where you have to move every other piece to make room for the piece you want to move. I got to the outside door and unlocked and partially opened it. The Airstream trailer in the driveway prevents full opening for now. I started by pulling out a lot of pieces of lumber that were stored in the garage. This included Womanized pine boards and fence boards that can be stored outside. There have been leaks and some pieces of plaster impregnated metal lath ceiling had fallen down. I pulled those out too. Filled 2 small black trash dumpsters with the debris. Stacked boxes up along the walls to make a path through the garage. Now I can almost get from one door to the other! Photos of what remains and the dumpsters and stacks of removed wood leaning on a tree follow:

Hard to get your bearings in this shot. You are looking in throught the outside garage door toward the back wall of the garage. Ceiling panels have fallen down and view is blocked by lots of stuff:
IMG_3344.jpg


A little to the right of the previous shot showing the boards, lumber and MDF panels that were leaning against the door. Had to move to get the door open. The garage door is one of those single piece counterbalanced types that swing up and overhead.
IMG_3345.jpg


This shows some of the wall to the right and lumber overhead. Somewhere under that is a bench with drill press.
IMG_3346.jpg


More:
IMG_3347.jpg


Insulation falling out of the ceiling:
IMG_3348.jpg


Inside of the garage door. I insulated with batts and covered with hardboard, a temporary solution a few years back.
IMG_3349.jpg


Next 4 photos are taken from the inside door looking out:
IMG_3350.jpg


IMG_3351.jpg


IMG_3352.jpg


IMG_3353.jpg


2 full dumpsters for Wed. pickup. Lots more to come!
IMG_3354.jpg


2 shots of wood I've pulled out:
IMG_3355.jpg


IMG_3356.jpg


2 shots of wood that needs dealing with. And there's lots more where that came from!
IMG_3357.jpg


IMG_3358.jpg


OK, got enough out, and stacked up on the sides,to walk around the bandsaw in the middle and almost get to the inside door!
IMG_3359.jpg


IMG_3360.jpg


IMG_3361.jpg


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IMG_3363.jpg


There IS a Delta wood lathe in there somewhere...I remember using it once.
IMG_3364.jpg


So THAT'S where the drill press is! And look.....multimedia!
IMG_3365.jpg


Sub-panel for when I get that far.
IMG_3366.jpg


Plenty of paint! Lots more in the basement....
IMG_3367.jpg


Maple boards for a future workbench:
IMG_3368.jpg


The inside door to the rear vestibule and rear door are visible on the left. On the right of that along the rear wall is a built in rack full of paints. To the right of that is a built in bench with a flimsy wood storage rack above:
IMG_3369.jpg


Looking out through the outside door with more boards and tools stacked up on the right:
IMG_3370.jpg



Basically it's a big mess as you can see. Goal is to make it a usable space for tools for working on the 2 vans (Astro and E350).

Bill (Almost overwhelmed in Detroit)

PS: As I am editing this and adding photo captions it occurs to me that the 16th is my birthday and this project is a present to me and many days of future happiness puttering about on the garage!


Holy shitski did anybody get hurt in that explosion?:lol: I thought mine was bad but I think you had me beat. Looks like you sure have your work cut out for you......good luck with your project.
 

mdbeck1

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Okay Bill.... Prove to us that you've been working on the garage some. Post some CURRENT pictures from about the same angle as those reposted in post # 1663.
 

Kevin54

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BigWil (And Kevin),
I appreciate both of you because you have a Gung-ho attitude that I haven't mustered yet. I don't have a fire in the belly. I have fear and panic in the belly. The element that I haven't got in the mix yet is set goals with deadlines. Hell, I just got to the point where I can look forward to more than just the next day without panic. I am setting daily goals, which almost always take twice as long as expected. And I am working on things most every day, rather than a day or so per week. No, I don't get up at 7 and work hard on it all day. Haven't even started yet today. It is hard to get started. I don't know why. Once started, I want to take any opportunity to quit. And then it's hard to start again. But once I do a big stretch of work, I love the result. It's this way for all of us on the hoarders group. I don't know why. But we are all making progress. It is just so slow compared to what you would do. I was like you in the old days. Just hit it hard til done. Hit the hardest part first. Boom!
I have a couch sitting on the front walk and have to finish clearing the living room and bring it in so we can go get the scaffolding at 4.
I'll be thinking seriously about your suggestions while I do it.

Let me take a guess on this Bill, but by your statement "It's this way for all of us Hoarders in the group".....the no fire in the belly, having a hard time getting started, blah, blah, blah. I'm guessing that, oh, let's say maybe 75% of you in the group doesn't work? Could I be correct on that?
You sit around the house, day in and day out, week after week, year after year and finally got yourself conditioned to where you can tell yourself, "I don't have to do it today, I'll do it tomorrow. I'm not doing anything I don't want to do"

That's not a sign of being a hoarder, that's a sign of being lazy. Hoarding is just a secondary infliction associated with laziness. You've never really told anyone WHY you don't work. But I could take a guess on that too. Let's see.....You live in Detroit and there are no jobs. The economy is in the toilet. Would that be a fair assessment of the work situation? Is it health issues? You've never really said Bill, other that you USED to do programming and you used to be a finish carpenter, IIRC?

I haven't worked in almost a year. I can't due to medical problems and multiple surgeries. I still get up at 4:30 or 5:00 each morning, 7 days a week. Why? Because it takes me longer to do things, but I still want to get things done. What used to take me an hour to do may take me 5 hours. I still have goals. I don't make excuses. I do what I can in the morning without waking my wife. Feed the dog, make coffee, breakfast for my wife, and anything else I can do to make her life a little easier. Once she gets up and around by maybe 6:00, then she helps me do the things that I can't do. Hell, we could both sit around and feel sorry for ourselves. She has had one long year with cancer and I've had a few long years with limited use of my arm and heading towards the 11th surgery in a couple of days. But we don't let it get the best of us by just sitting around and not doing a thing and feeling sorry for ourselves.

It's easy to sit back and tell everyone how hoarding is a condition. You admitted that you and Julie were Hoarders in the first few lines when this post started. But there is a huge difference between you and Julie. She may just have caved in because she cares about you. You have just gave in to not wanting to do anything other than buy items then lose them in the midst of trash that surrounds your lives. It's very easy to play, but very difficult to work. If everyone gave up on working today, we would all be hoarders tomorrow. What is the exact reason that you can't work Bill? What do you do for income? Are you dependent on Julie's income for everything or do you draw a Disability check? I'm just curious.

This is what your problem is and it is not hoarding and your words:

I don't get up at 7 and work hard on it all day. Haven't even started yet today. It is hard to get started. I don't know why. Once started, I want to take any opportunity to quit.

Your problem is laziness, plain and simple, and you use the word "hoarding" and "mental illness" as a crutch and as an excuse. You don't get up at 7:00 because you don't want to. You're have not started anything by noon, because it's easier to get on the computer and **** around. And once starting to do a little work, you want to quit. Why? Because it's no fun at all.

A person can tackle an infliction if they so desire, but it takes determination and commitment. One has to force theirself to do something they don't really like until it becomes routine. Once it becomes routine, then it is not so much like work. I don't know why, but the words of Judge Joe Brown come to mind..."Man up" Stand up, be a man, and do what's right. Start forcing yourself to work a little bit. Set a damn alarm clock and start getting up at 7:00 AM. Work till noon then take a half hour lunch, then work again until your wife gets home. You really ought to try it. Millions of people do it everyday. Once you do it for a month it will become routine. You always mention that you help the neighbors do this and do that. The reason you can do that kind of work is because for one, it's not really work and you can walk away from it anytime that you want. Why not get one of the neighbors to help you for once. Instead of dicking around boarding up empty houses to keep squatters out, quit worrying about those homes and get that neighbor to help you do something that you really can't tackle yourself. Move that heavy load that you can't normally move.

And don't use Julie as an excuse for not getting something done. I'm not looking back through all of the threads, but I'm certain there were a few that you were going to do this or that, but Julie wanted to go camping. Or that we just HAD to get away from all this work for the weekend.

Like I said above Bill, you have bullshitted quite a few on here but at the same time, quite a few have seen through the ********. You're a good guy, you have helped many people with intelligent answers to their problems. You have gained people on to your side, and you have made some people aware of their so called "hoarding" tendencies and in turn they have cleaned up their act so as to not end up with a garage or house like yours. But craps sake man...you ask for support, you tell people what your goals are for the day or week, then when the time comes, you have either done nothing, or you post a picture of a little corner of a room that you got cleaned out just so you can get accolades to make yourself feel better. Tell them the truth. "If I get something done, I'll post a pic, but don't hold your breath". I think people would take it better if you'd just tell them "the weathers nice and I'm just gonna **** off all week and do nothing". Then you won't be letting them down.

I know it has to be aggravating for you, more so than it is for us, but you have a 50/50 captive audience with this thread. 50% rooting for you and telling you "good job Bill. Keep it up", and the other 50% like me that either opens their mouth, don't say a word, or just completely ignores this thread altogether now. I wish I was still in the first 50% group but sad to say, I'm not. I can't say "Good job Bill" anymore. You wanted people to help you "eat this Elephant". You started this thread with the paragraph:

OK,
So this is an existing single car attached garage here in Detroit. House is a 2 story brick colonial on a corner lot.
Here's the interesting part.......me and the wife are hoarders!
I'm making this admission here because I know there are more of us lurking out there. I want this to encourage them (And myself) that change is possible.

Existing conditions:
The house and garage are packed to the rafters.
I've built 7 sheds to hold the overflow.
All this on a 40x100 lot!

This is going to be about a lifestyle change for us both.
I'm counting on the OC among you to help us find ways to be more like you.

You're counting on us, but we can't count on you. Sorry Bill.:dunno:
 

santagary

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Messages
821
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Pagosa Springs, Colorado
This thread is a total waste of time. It's time to take a walk and toss a match. Giving anyone this much time and attention on an otherwise wonderful forum is kin to being chief enablers. the only way to change your behavior is to totally ignore you. I can't imagine your community tolerating that rats' nest. :3gears:
 
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BigWil

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Jun 26, 2011
Messages
443
Location
Canada
This thread is a total waste of time. It's time to take a walk and toss a match. Giving anyone this much time and attention on an otherwise wonderful forum is kin to being chief enablers. the only way to change your behavior is to tatally ignore you. I can't imagine your community tolerating that rats' nest. :3gears:

He's in Detroit...his place is probably considered average :FIREdevil
 

Grandad

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Messages
44
Location
My little piece of heaven in Australia
This thread is a total waste of time.

Watching somebody change their life can never be considered a waste of time, regardless of the length of time it may take.
Whether Bill is doing it in the same time frame or order of jobs as some others may do it themselves is irrelevant as well.
This is Bill's journey and if there are people who don't wish to make that journey with him, or would like to see him take a different, less scenic route or travel a bit faster then they are free to branch off and make their own way on their own.
But nobody has the right to put their expectations onto another human being.

Jim
 

TheChanMan

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Oct 22, 2011
Messages
32
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The First Coast, Florida
I hit this 84 page, yearlong suckfest in 10 page increments to get the abridged version, and am positively sickened. These guys provide enough positive support to covince a vegan hippie to eat a republican donkey's ***, and like it. You're F'n superman... or were. You're the occasional screw that has called less and less. GJ'ers need a fix occasionally, and you're forcing everyone to skin it elsewhere. I'd throw popcorn at every movie that turned into white noise right after the opening credits. Jim obligated himself to defending your standpoint, and I don't necessarily agree. I've pissed entire weekends away, hell weeks when I was younger. WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT HEALTHY
 

santagary

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Messages
821
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Pagosa Springs, Colorado
All the attention postpones the "change" and even interferes with it. If AA can be used as analagous, talking incessantly about the 12 step process vs doing it and drinking at the same time is counterproductive. What is being called encouragement is chief enablement. Even commenting on their living conditions betrays everone's intent to change his behavior. The more disgusting the pics and the descriptions the more comments are generated...look at the numbers. He's affecting us, we're not affecting him/them at all. :sad: Reminds me of a sitcom, but in this case I think it's a "sit-con". Only in America...wonder who he's voting for?? HA!:sad::sad::sad:
 

Grandad

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Messages
44
Location
My little piece of heaven in Australia
What is being called encouragement is chief enablement.

"Enabling"...in the context of AA and any other psychological condition that may plague a person is quite literally the act of enabling the behaviour to continue without ramification.

The wife who goes out to work a second job so her husband can continue to gamble his income away is enabling her husband to continue gambling without suffering the consequence.

The husband who cleans up after his alcoholic wife and calls her employer to say she cannot come into work because one of the kids is sick, and tells their friends they cannot come over because she is "down with the flu" is enabling his wife to continue drinking without suffering the consequence.

Strangers on this forum giving encouragement to Bill when he clears an area or chastise him for not doing the same are NOT enabling him to continue collecting without suffering the consequence. They are calling him to task to change.

Some of the chastisement he receives may be harsh in my eye but he has indicated that this too motivates him.

It was the expression "A waste of time" that got under my skin. You may consider I was too harsh and that is your right.
But I cannot accept that any human being anywhere is ever "A waste of time"

I am not discouraged by Bill's progress. Instead I see a man in his senior years making an incredible change for the better. And he's doing it alone, and taking his wife with him. I applaude him and all that he has accomplished so far. The changes he brings about in his life will be longstanding as a direct result of how he's doing it.

I'm basically a lurker on this thread. I only frequent this forum now to follow Bill's progress and that of a young man doing extraordinary things to his 1950's garage with limited experience and budget..

I'll now go back to lurking.

Keep at it Bill.
Or an one Aussie would say to another....You'll be right mate!
 
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santagary

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Messages
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The degree and quantity of the attention being given Bill by those that his pig sty bothers is only prolonging his neurosis, which is his to nurture. He's still posting 10 month old pics of two trash containers and some lumber propped up by other lumber. All the so-called encouragement for his "baby steps" has been counter productive for those that are bothered by his condition and circumstances. I feel Bill and his wife are very happy living off the system and in their squalor of trash,, dog ****, mold and junk. Just thank God that there are no small children for them to mold in this disfunctional way. They are happy at some unconscious level and loving the attention and notoriety that this thread has given them, but it certainly has not changed their behavior and never will...because then all the attention would go away. In their own eyes they have become famous. :scared:
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
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Messages
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Location
Urbana, Ohio
The degree and quantity of the attention being given Bill by those that his pig sty bothers is only prolonging his neurosis, which is his to nurture. He's still posting 10 month old pics of two trash containers and some lumber propped up by other lumber. All the so-called encouragement for his "baby steps" has been counter productive for those that are bothered by his condition and circumstances. I feel Bill and his wife are very happy living off the system and in their squalor of trash,, dog ****, mold and junk. Just thank God that there are no small children for them to mold in this disfunctional way. They are happy at some unconscious level and loving the attention and notoriety that this thread has given them, but it certainly has not changed their behavior and never will...because then all the attention would go away. In their own eyes they have become famous. :scared:

All the more reason that I think the thread should be closed and just deleted. The novelty has wore off. It's a shame, but a member ask for help with an infliction, but then turns down everything offered to him. Evidently the help was or is not needed :dunno:
 

Homerr

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Joined
Mar 16, 2012
Messages
379
Location
Seattle, WA
If Bill was serious about resolving this he would be seeing a counselor at least once a week. The hoarders support group would be supplemental. Hopefully Julie would join the same regimen on her own.

Over time the house would then resolve itself.

Right now it's like a car our of gas that Bill is trying to move forward by cranking the starter.
 

-->

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Joined
Dec 19, 2010
Messages
1,501
Location
NY outer borrough.
This!

I would go directly to the basement if there were no eyes on me and if I had access. But like a lot of hoarders, I have to do one thing to do another thing to do the next thing.

Today I finally got the rolling tool cart and grinder on a table out of the living room and into the garage. Had to empty the roller and remove the drawers. What a lengthy pain in the ***. Especially since I had to reassemble in the driveway and hang a sheet to hide it from prying eyes and reorganize the garage to make room. Hot sweaty work, but no tools left in the living room!!!
Tonight I'll work on finishing clearing the living room in prep for installing carpet and the couch from the van. Rescheduled scaffold for tomorrow night.

I'm seeing lots of progress and hungry every day for more.

Bill

Everything on top of everything else. I know what you mean.
I have a suggestion though. Pick the worst of the trailers, and donate them. Then get a 20 yard dumpster, if you can afford it, and loose everything in the yard. Trust me, when that stuff is gone, the open spaces will feel better than FINDING five times the money spent on the dumpster, or lost by not selling the trailers.
 

Brewsterg6

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Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
69
Why don't you move half of your **** into one of those abandoned houses that you spend so much time boarding up?? I agree with Kev... He's getting more enjoyment out of post counting than working!
 

csp

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Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
5,719
Location
Franktown, CO
I know it has to be aggravating for you, more so than it is for us, but you have a 50/50 captive audience with this thread. 50% rooting for you and telling you "good job Bill. Keep it up", and the other 50% like me that either opens their mouth, don't say a word, or just completely ignores this thread altogether now.

Member of the second 50% here. I used to keep up with this thread and today is the first time in probably 5-6 months since I've looked at it.

More of the same moving from this pile to that pile, sweeping up the sidewalk outside, blah blah blah.....

No REAL progress to be seen. I might check in again in a few months to see if anything has changed, but it's doubtful. I've gone from hoping for the best to having a big pile of who gives a ****. The owner certainly doesn't.
 

-Brent-

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Dec 23, 2009
Messages
4,709
Location
Utah
Below is my first post to this thread, I'm quoting it to make it present again because I think this is part of the root issue. As well, I'd like to add something to this, Bill.

If you're reading, I want you to take notice of something. Do you see how the sentiment of the posters' has shifted? Do you get a sense of how they no longer are giving your excuses (your word) wiggle room and many are now checking out?

This is mirroring your real life now. This thread is difficult to be visited the same way your home cannot be. You mentioned, before, how family and friends won't or cannot come over. It's happening here, too, and NOT because this thread is cluttered or messy. It's your lack of commitment to your word. You said you'd do something and haven't followed through. That was my point (below) of being out of integrity. You said you'd do something and didn't. When the words were put out there, many people took them at face value.

If you want this stuff to continue in your life, then keep it up. If not, I'd suggest clean up the first mess, and that's the mess you've got within. That's the stumbling block.

I can pick out exactly the issue here. Some things in your life/head are more difficult to admit to/clean up then a house filled with junk.

I'll end with this, I don't like seeing you suffer. And I can see that by reading in between the lines of your euphamistic excuse-laden writing. In fact, I don't care at all about the house and all its junk or the excuses behind it piling up. However, I'd like to see you successful. I'd like to see you "get it" because once you do you'd probably be a man that could accomplish ANYTHING.

Part of you wants to go through and get over this struggle. I suggest you put that part in the driver's seat of your life.

Good luck to you.

I'm a realist and I'm sorry to say this thread will never reach the end many would like to see. At least not the way bczygan is living now. It's a shame, too. There are so many people willing to help. This issue isn't about the accumulated "stuff." The stuff is the result of habituated behaviors. Some term it as a disease, others say bad habits, but simplifying it down to the simplist level - it's a choice. After the choice, it's commitment to your word - THAT takes integrity. So, at the root of all this, it's being WAY OUT OF INTEGRITY. This reaches everywhere in Bill and his wife's life.

bczygan has a nice story to tell when something doesn't work out around him. It's his exit strategy for his commitment. This thread is a perfect example of it. bczygan, I wish you all the best but I have a suspicion that you're really just 5% committed to change.

You want dramatic and immediate results in your life? Unplug your computer, disconnect your cable and Internet, and stop with the "story." Get back to restoring your word, i.e., your commitment to all the areas of your life.

To simplify things further, here's the process: Do what you said you would do by when you said you would do it. When you do not, clean up the mess you made by apologizing (a real earnest and authentic apology) and recommiting yourself by making a NEW commitment and then keeping your word to that. When you mess up here or there, repeat, and so on.


The world we live in is a word giving world. We see all sorts of stuff out of whack. Look at the root of the issues, somewhere along the line the integrity (and commitment to it) was lost.

I'll be honest, integrity wasn't my strong suite growing up. I needed someone to slam me over the head with the truth, then I needed to admit to myself that I had a nice "story" to tell to try to get me out of my BS. That BS story never really worked. It was quite an experience cleaning up the messes I made in my life. I'll tell you what, though, cleaning that stuff up allowed me a life I never imagined. And, a clear conscious is the softest of pillows.
 
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JC23

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Joined
Dec 31, 2009
Messages
11,718
Location
Northcoast
Brent nailed it, Bill.

I can add only a semi witty saying to give you added perspective.

"Sometimes, ya gotta take the bull by the tail and face the situation."
 
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