gun safe questions

[lt1driver]

looking for a gun safe, want it to be hard to pry open, no thin lipped doors like I frequently see and also want it to be fire resistant so I can store documents in it as well as couple guns. want a 14-20 gun safe so files also will fit. only have 3 guns. also not wanting to spend over 1k if possible. thanks for comments especially if you already own one and have personal experience. happy 4th to everyone.

 

[Mike007]

looking for a gun safe, want it to be hard to pry open, no thin lipped doors like I frequently see and also want it to be fire resistant so I can store documents in it as well as couple guns. want a 14-20 gun safe so files also will fit. only have 3 guns. also not wanting to spend over 1k if possible. thanks for comments especially if you already own one and have personal experience. happy 4th to everyone.

For $1K you are not even close for a new gun safe with your requirements.

 

[rockwithjason]

You are dreaming

 

[LB-1911]

Pretty tough @ 1k.

Gun Safe
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197793

Gun Safe....
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=177965

 

[Bjkearns]

security needs to be a layered approach not just placing all your eggs in one basket

 

[crewchief888]

last safe i bought was around $2K

and that was in '96...

 

[Ryf]

this is a long video, but if your really looking, it explains alot in detail, and bottom line is you need to either lower your standards or expand your welding and fab skills

 

[southalabama]

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/sto...ity?cm_mmc=feed-_-google-_-safeship-_-1043297

 

[Dale Leeds]

^^^^^2nd this^^^^^ You can get a nice Cannon type 20 gun safe at Tractor Supply for about $6-800.00. Every day price. About 30x20. Check them out.

 

[aafadca]

I bought a 12-24 gun Winchester safe ( I believe it's a Granite from Texas) a few years ago from Walmart for around 600-700. It's fire proof up to 1200 degrees with self inflating seals suposedly. It's very heavy with 5 -6 locking lugs I believe. Although I wanted the combination type lock, it only came with the digital one. But I actually like it better now. It also only came in a textured black color. You can find some deals out there. Just keep looking and be patient.

 

[Engineer61]

The one spec that's missing from that safe at Tractor supply is what gauge sheet metal it's made from, I'd bet it's 14 or 16 gauge mild steel wrapped around two layers of 1/2" sheet rock is how the walls and door are made.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Fire "proof" safes are lined with concrete, typically.

 

[trbomax]

The Cannon is junk. Not even painted on top or bottom. Mine was missing the shelf clips,cannon would not return my calls or e-mails. The shelves are thin pressed board and after a year will sag.Save your money and buy a quality product.

 

[Mike007]

I picked up a National Security used on Craigslist a few years ago for $500. It was made in the 90's. The body is made from 3/16" steel and the door is a 3/8" plate. It's not going to stop a pro, but I believe it would resist a crackhead looking for a quick score. If I was buying new I would look at Sturdy. http://www.sturdysafe.com/ They seem to be a good value if you want a non-sheetmetal safe.

 

[spotco2]

I stock and sell a lot of Amsec safes and their BF series gun safes are great sellers and what I trust my valuables to in my own home. It's above your budget a little but you will not find a better safe in the price range.

As far as storing documents and media inside, we always recommend using a fire safe like a small Sentry box inside your gun safe. Gun safes will not protect media in a fire. It's a different rating system.

 

[Dale Leeds]

Your typical burglars are going to be some young kids who won't be able to get into a gun safe like they sell at Tractor Supply. And now days if you want some type of fire protection you should get some type of security system. But just about any gun safe today is rated at 1200 degrees for 1/2 hour. No matter how thick it is or how it is built.

 

[ddawg16]

If they want it bad enough....they will get it..

1. Don't advertise. You would not believe how many gun safes I have seen from the street because someone has it in their garage and the door is open.

2. As stated above..the fireproofing is not much more than concrete. You can significantly increase the fireproof nature of the safe but putting 2-3 layers of 5/8" Type X drywall around it. If a fire burns through those 3 layers and still melts your safe..that is one hot fire.

3. Access....in order to pry a safe door open, you need room on the side. If you install that safe in an area that has say 3' of wall on all sides so that the dirt bag can't get any leverage with a crowbar....he is not going to get it open.

 

[bob15]

A good safe and under a grand isn't going to happen. Sure those safes at TSC are fire-rated, but a good fire axe will pry open the side of them like a tin can. 95% of the fire rated safes have sheet rock in the, not concrete (don't believe me, look at the weight of them, as they are very light).

Save your money and look at a quality built safe such as the BF safes or a Sturdy Safe.

http://www.sturdysafe.com/

How to open a TSC or Cannon safe:

bob

 

[forrestlaw]

My brother in law recently got a gun safe. Approx. 5ft tall and 3ft wide. I don't remember who the maker is, but it is a really quality safe that cost several thousand dollars. He stores guns as well as important files in it.

 

[nehog]

Fire "proof" safes are lined with concrete, typically.

Not concrete, but gypsum is used. Cheaper models use just standard sheetrock (or fireproof sheetrock.) (Concrete conducts heat much too well for use as a fire resistant medium.)

Any 'fireproof' safe will deteriorate over the years as the gypsum absorbs moisture and breaks down. Then when exposed to a fire, the moisture flashes to steam causing it (the insulation's ability to withstand heat) to deteriorate more. End result: fire protection lost, especially in cheaper boxes.

 

[cheese79]

save up buy one of these

http://www.bearsafes.net/

problem solved

 

[4v shane]

http://www.dunhamssports.com/products/cannon-scout-48-gun-fireproof-safe/


get a 20% off coupon !

 

[spotco2]

Nehog is correct that the fire resistant material that is typically used is gypsum board glued to the outer skin instead of concrete. I've seen it fall apart in many safes over the years and it can even fall off the back side of the door blocking the bolt work in some cases causing a lockout even under normal use.

That is one reason that I like the BF series because of the way that they pour their fire resistant material in between two layers of sheet metal.

I'm not sure where the OP is located but Griffin Enterprises in Chesterfield SC is also making some really impressive safes now, and like the AMSEC they are made in the USA.

 

[BellyUpFish]

A good safe and under a grand isn't going to happen. Sure those safes at TSC are fire-rated, but a good fire axe will pry open the side of them like a tin can. 95% of the fire rated safes have sheet rock in the, not concrete (don't believe me, look at the weight of them, as they are very light).

I bought a safe for less than a grand and it survived my fire.. Insurance agent said he couldn't believe anything came out of the safe intact as he had just been at a fire where a mans $4,500 safe had nothing but destroyed guns in it..

I didn't lose a single firearm that was in the safe.. I did however, need to refinish most of them.

I also pried it open myself, using a crow-bar and a sledge hammer, it took me about 15 minutes to get into it..

 

[honda_fox3]

I bought a safe for less than a grand and it survived my fire.. Insurance agent said he couldn't believe anything came out of the safe intact as he had just been at a fire where a mans $4,500 safe had nothing but destroyed guns in it..

I didn't lose a single firearm that was in the safe.. I did however, need to refinish most of them.

I also pried it open myself, using a crow-bar and a sledge hammer, it took me about 15 minutes to get into it..

This can be a bit misleading. Conditions are very different from fire to fire. Safe location, surrounding materials, duration and flame exposure, etc, etc, etc. make a big difference even if both were total house burns.

Do some serious research. Go to several local safe stores and just ask questions. Fact is that all safes can be broken in to and all can be destroyed by fire it juse depends on how long it takes. I wouldn't skimp on something like a safe, there are some places that the extra cost is worth while.

When you do get one, placing it in a corner with 2 concrete walls is a good idea for fire reasons, the concrete walls won't ignite or transmit nearly as much heat as a stick built wall. Basement walls are good for this. If that isn't possible the next best would be outside walls. Always keep fire load material away from it. Clothes, furniture, cabinets, etc will all add to the heat exposure.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Champion, Heritage, and Superior are also all good brands of safes.

Depending on where you live, I would look for a business that exclusively sells gun safes. They are the most knowledgeable and will have the best selection. Things to consider like you were mentioning is fire rating, solid steel vs composite (and thickness on various sides), pin size & location, locking mechanism, etc, etc, etc....

The big box stores typically all sell over-priced cheap Chinese junk. Likewise finding a person there that knows what they are talking about is also very rare.

You can get a decent safe for $1,000 depending on where you live. But honestly look at them as a long-term investment and also look at the value of what you are storing vs what you want to spend. I can't believe some of the people that would only spend $500 to protect $50,000+ in valuables....

Also, if you find a gun safe store, usually you can trade in your old safe for credit when the day comes that you want to upsize.

 

[BellyUpFish]

This can be a bit misleading. Conditions are very different from fire to fire. Safe location, surrounding materials, duration and flame exposure, etc, etc, etc. make a big difference even if both were total house burns.

Do some serious research. Go to several local safe stores and just ask questions. Fact is that all safes can be broken in to and all can be destroyed by fire it juse depends on how long it takes. I wouldn't skimp on something like a safe, there are some places that the extra cost is worth while.

When you do get one, placing it in a corner with 2 concrete walls is a good idea for fire reasons, the concrete walls won't ignite or transmit nearly as much heat as a stick built wall. Basement walls are good for this. If that isn't possible the next best would be outside walls. Always keep fire load material away from it. Clothes, furniture, cabinets, etc will all add to the heat exposure.

I wasn't trying to mislead anyone.

This is my own personal experience with a safe that cost less than $1,000.

The rest of your comments are spot on.

Something else to think about, most insurance policies only cover $2,500 worth of firearms, unless you have a rider policy.

 

[onewaydave]

Fire "proof" is the kicker. Fire resistance. Resistance is a time related term that is directly related to $.

I have 2 safes. They were about $1100.

There is a local that makes and sells safes. I haven't priced him though. You don't mention location. Check Cabellas and the likes.

I would not trust legal documents to a gun safe. Much cheaper to use a safe deposit box in the local bank.

Depending on the circumstances, a safe can be carted off to open at the theifs leisure. Even if bolted down. They really only protect the items from a casual observer. Think saws all with a bimetal blade or a cutting torch.

Dave.

 

[bob15]

Depending on the circumstances, a safe can be carted off to open at the theifs leisure. Even if bolted down. They really only protect the items from a casual observer. Think saws all with a bimetal blade or a cutting torch.

Dave.

One of the things with Sturdy Safe I like is the Stainless Steel you can buy for it. Torches will have a tough time with SS, not to mention cutting 3/16" SS with a sawzall will be even tougher. Not to say it cannot be done, but it will take longer than maybe a thief will want to spend on it.

Sorry, but if I have 10, 15k in firearms, i want the best safe possible. Not a TSC or a china made special.


Bellyup, glad you didn't lose anything with the fire. My concern with your safe is the short amount of time it took you to pry it open. On my safe, you cannot pry it open; heck, you cannot even fit the thickness of a nickle between the door and the safe body. This is another reason I went with Sturdy. i just get nervous about losing my guns......


bob

 

[BellyUpFish]

Bellyup, glad you didn't lose anything with the fire. My concern with your safe is the short amount of time it took you to pry it open. On my safe, you cannot pry it open; heck, you cannot even fit the thickness of a nickle between the door and the safe body. This is another reason I went with Sturdy. i just get nervous about losing my guns......

I'm with you. The replacement was better than the original, it's also the 3rd or 4th tier of security.

My dad had a coworker who has a safe room that some thieves drove a truck pretty much through his basement and into the gun room and stole all his goods.

 

[SteveCh]

Not long ago, I spent some time researching safes for both guns and paper documents. Didn't need anything big, only have a few guns and not so many documents, deed to the house and some insurance papers, etc. Normal stuff.

Long story short, I discovered that to find something that would really work in my price range [no more than $1K] wasn't about to happen. I punted and, for now, am using a $30/year security box at my credit union and will reconsider later.

The lower-priced units are, as others have pointed out, not really good for much. I was surprised, at first, at how flimsy many of them are.

 

[Dale Leeds]

I hate to continue an argument, but: Let's think reasonably. I kid with a crowbar is not going to pry open a Cannon type safe with locking bolts down the side, top and bottom when it has a 1/4 door with a 3" inner panel. He'll bend the crow bar long before he gets the door open. Burglars want to get in and out within a few minutes. If someone has an expensive collection they should have some type of insurance and a burglar alarm system, anyway. And if there's a fire like the one above, you've got a lot more to worry about than a few cheap guns. Anymore, people will spend $100.00 a month on a cell phone to gab on, then let their home burn to the ground because they won't get an alarm system. So, get a decent safe. Hide it so people won't find it very fast and get an alarm system. There you go.

 

[EOC_Jason]

If money is no object, I would like a http://www.graffundersafes.com/

Realistically though, as others have said, it all depends on how prepared your thieves are...

If you bolt your safe to the floor, that prevents them from merely carting it off... Which for small safes is not uncommon.

If you get a good quality with at least one pin in the top & bottom of the door (preferably two or more), that prevents them from bending the door out enough to clear the pins on the side & open the door.

If you put your safe in a corner, or preferably something where only the front side is accessible, it prevents the thinner sides from being exposed which are more easily cut.

Also like others said, if you have something where there isn't much room in front of the safe either to give them room to work it will deter them from really trying.

The more theft-proof you want, the more $$$$ you will have to shell out.

I've seen numerous safes from fires & floods. In a fire situation the safe will heat up but also the air inside. When the firemen hose everything down and the safe cools down quickly (and also the air inside) the smoke gets sucked into the safe and that combined with the moisture will ruin the finish on your guns. Still better than loosing the guns all together though.

 

[BJ42LX]

Where do you guys put your gun safes?

Bedroom, living room, basement? First floor, second floor?

 

[crewchief888]

Where do you guys put your gun safes?

Bedroom, living room, basement? First floor, second floor?

i had my last safe in a walk in bedroom closet.

 

[Jeep Monkey RTR]

I have a 25 gun liberty safe that is fire resistant (45 minutes at 1200 degrees) that I paid less than 700 dollars for. There is a sporting goods store in Birmingham Alabama that sells "blemish" Liberty safes. The blemishes are typically a scratch in the powder coating.

Every time I drive by there, someone is loading up one.

 

[lt1driver]

wow, thanks for all the replies, I ask because I didn't have a clue and wanted peoples comments not a store or dealer who only want to sell me something. I have one of those who wanted me to buy a 8k safe....my guns are not worth any money just had long time and don't want someone to get them and documents are personal stuff, not valuables to anyone but me ....I live in Texas....thanks again for the insight and I will do the research now with all your comments as guidelines...thanks.

 

[32krazy!]

regardless of the safe you buy install against an outside wall. as the house and floor burn the safe will fall outside and not inside to be consumed by the flames

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Not concrete, but gypsum is used. Cheaper models use just standard sheetrock (or fireproof sheetrock.) (Concrete conducts heat much too well for use as a fire resistant medium.)

Any 'fireproof' safe will deteriorate over the years as the gypsum absorbs moisture and breaks down. Then when exposed to a fire, the moisture flashes to steam causing it (the insulation's ability to withstand heat) to deteriorate more. End result: fire protection lost, especially in cheaper boxes.

Close. I know the one have has got to be concrete. It is a small little ****** but weighs a ton!! If they can lift it, they can have it.

 

[srmofo]

Not long ago, I spent some time researching safes for both guns and paper documents. Didn't need anything big, only have a few guns and not so many documents, deed to the house and some insurance papers, etc. Normal stuff.

Long story short, I discovered that to find something that would really work in my price range [no more than $1K] wasn't about to happen. I punted and, for now, am using a $30/year security box at my credit union and will reconsider later.

The lower-priced units are, as others have pointed out, not really good for much. I was surprised, at first, at how flimsy many of them are.

So they let you walk into the bank with guns and didnt freak out?

I know, I know but you didnt describe how you solved the firearm portion of your problem