Hammer time!

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Took a swing with this odd 3lb mini sledge and its normal counterpart at the local builder's merchant.

The design intent is a larger face (61 vs. 44mm) to reduce misses and distribute force, a ball head for demolition, and side faces for fence posts.

It feels just weird, the balance is way off and the dynamics are strange. Not sure how well I can describe it, but obviously the cause is the weight bias towards the front. In swing, in whichever orientation, that big face wants to keep pointing down. When you pull it back up, it feels like it wants to pivot forwards rather than come up in one piece.

Maybe it's really good for some applications and you'd tolerate it for the benefits, or get used to it.

 

[four.cycle]

the balance is way off

UGH.

nothing compels me to dispose of a tool faster than it being unbalanced in the hand.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

How much variation would you expect in hickory colour?

I've just got a few of the same model in different sizes, one store order. Good brand, too.

Photo might not really do it justice, but I've got orange brown x2, light brown, yellow brown, and plain brown. I guess from different batches.

Perfectly functional of course, and it's a natural material.



Learning from Google:

Hickory wood contains both sapwood, which is the lighter outer part of the tree, and heartwood, the darker inner part. The sapwood is typically light, while the heartwood can range from light brown to a rich, dark brown or reddish-brown

While sapwood offers ease of workability and is cost-effective, heartwood provides superior durability and resistance to environmental factors

Right, cheaping out on materials.

Here's someone's photo of old stock in the same model:

 

[Beerhippie]

How much variation would you expect in hickory colour?

I've just got a few of the same model in different sizes, one store order. Good brand, too.

Photo might not really do it justice, but I've got orange brown x2, light brown, yellow brown, and plain brown. I guess from different batches.

Perfectly functional of course, and it's a natural material.



Learning from Google:


Right, cheaping out on materials.

Here's someone's photo of old stock in the same model:

Don't forget the finish, which can change the color of the wood. I wouldn't trust it without sanding down to clean wood.

 

[four.cycle]

How much variation would you expect in hickory colour?

A LOT.
In 2002, I sanded down the handles of all of my outdoor "garden tools", and then stupidly painted the handles with polyurethane - a really bad choice. Handle color varies from one to another.
Most all of these are original handles. Some have been replaced. I have always been really picky about handles - I drove all over town for the last two. (Hammer and axe below, sealed only with boiled linseed oil after sanding to bare wood.)
I don't really think "color" is as great a concern as finding a piece of wood with nice tight grain.

 

[Outlawmws]

I don't really think "color" is as great a concern as finding a piece of wood with nice tight grain.

Nice tight grain and the grain in line with the swing of the hammer/axe etc. Some will have the grain of the wood going side to side and these easily break.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Don't forget the finish, which can change the color of the wood. I wouldn't trust it without sanding down to clean wood.

I can't see much reason for a manufacturer to randomly vary the finish substance, whereas variability of natural materials (e.g. parts of the tree, different batches) and cost cutting seem much more likely.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

A LOT.

Yes, for a collection of random tools.

Perhaps not so much for the same model bought together. But for all I know, they might have been sitting in warehouses for varying number of years.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Nice tight grain and the grain in line with the swing of the hammer/axe etc. Some will have the grain of the wood going side to side and these easily break.

The set above are: inline, 45 degree, across, across, inline.

Another one I have from Halder, goes from 45 degree to across. I've seen a video of PB Swiss one also being 45.

Based on that, I doubt any brands give a damn.

 

[KnurledNut]

Warrington, or English pattern joiner's hammer. Only ever mentioned here once according to the search.

Use the narrow end to start small nails without bashing your fingers.

I’d be more likely to hit my finger with that thing.

 

[Outlawmws]

The set above are: inline, 45 degree, across, across, inline.

Another one I have from Halder, goes from 45 degree to across. I've seen a video of PB Swiss one also being 45.

Based on that, I doubt any brands give a damn.

I didn't say they did, but YOU should...

 

[four.cycle]

Yes, for a collection of random tools.

VERY random. A few of those pieces are over a century old now.
My oldest "garden tool", as it turns out, is a hand sickle, which has a very dark handle.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Why would you want a rectangular face on your hammer?

French pattern riveting hammer, 620g head, 36x29mm
German engineer hammer DIN 1041, 600g head, 30x30mm

Maybe the step in the wedge is to free up some weight which can instead be put towards a larger face.

Then make a tall narrow face to get into smaller places? You couldn't get a short wide face into anywhere anyway due to the swing arc.

 

[Outlawmws]

Why would you want a rectangular face on your hammer?

Hammering in square corners.

Before you ask, The flat sides are used to "Set" Pittsburgh seam as one example.

This is common in sheet metal work and apprentices and Journeyman are required to have a sheet metal hammer on the job. Union rules. (A buddy had one show up with a carpenters hammer - he sent him back to the union hall.)

I believe you are trying to be analytical about all these questions. You should try doing some study of what people actually do with these in their respective trades, instead of criticizing hammer designs.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Hammering in square corners.

Yes, I understand that for non-round hammers. A square hammer would also do, so why rectangular?

I believe you are trying to be analytical about all these questions.

Yes. I hope I'm not asking too many questions for people's liking - I figured this is a hammer thread on a tool forum after all. Thanks for your answers.

You should try doing some study of what people actually do with these in their respective trades,

I absolutely am doing that by reading, and asking here when I have remaining questions.

instead of criticizing hammer designs.

I don't believe I've done that. Asking questions isn't criticising - I genuinely ask because I want to know.

The only thing I've offered an opinion on is the unusual mini sledge, where I said personally I didn't like it, and conceded it may well be excellent for some purposes or after getting used to it.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Why would you want a rectangular face on your hammer?

Found an answer here https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/6005-french-pattern-hammers/

Made for riveting during construction of the Eiffel Tower. The shorter head allow use in confined spaces, as do the other design differences presumably.

The following photos are of different sizes and handle material, but for comparison:

• Facom 200H.30 (French) hickory - 570g head, 100mm long head, 30mm face height
• Facom 205H.50 (German) hickory - 580g head, 122m long head, 27mm square face
• Facom 200H.1 (ball pein) hickory - 430g head, 104mm long head, 31mm diameter face

200C.40 (1000g)


205C.50 (580g)

 

[fishwatcher]

A friend asked how many hammers I have, and I said, "It depends..." So to settle it, I gathered them in four batches, the peens (cross, straight, and ball), the claws, the rocks, and the mauls. Categories aren't totally pure.

Nearly all of these have been picked up at consigment centers, ebay, and the ReStore Habitat shops. Most have needed a good wire-wheeling plus sanding down the handles (or replacing them). Then I usually refinished the handles with stain and two coats of shellac (plus wax sometimes).

The peens (among which are two Warringtons):



the claws (the one with the 16d nail is a Cheney Nailer):



the rocks (the one on the right is a Maydole):



the mauls, mallets, and miscellaneous:

These are so nice. Can you share pictures of how you store or display these hammers?

 

[AreBeeBee]

These are so nice. Can you share pictures of how you store or display these hammers?

I don't display them, they are just stored here and there. Some lie on a bench next to the chunk of RR rail that serves as the anvil, others are sitting in a 5 gallon bucket, a few are hanging from floor joists (the shop is in the unfinished basement), and so on. Nothing at all special to see; anyone can copy the "method" freely!

 

[jeffmoss26]

Picked this little guy up yesterday

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

My great-grandfather’s hammer. (He was a shoemaker by trade.) Never touched/ restored it - I guess it was “shop fixed” by him when necessary, eventually.







Kind regards,
Olli

 

[Patrickm82]

That’s a beauty Olli!

 

[Beerhippie]

Interesting watch over at YT:

Not only the info, but learning of a new and significant cause of erosion in our western mountains.

 

[Outlawmws]

Picked this little guy up yesterday

Any markings Jeff? And some closeups, please!

 

[jeffmoss26]

Will get more pics. No markings, the bottom cap is brass

 

[Outlawmws]

Cool family heirloom Olli!

 

[four.cycle]

While trying to identify a mystery hammer for another member, I came upon this early catalog listing that seems to make clear that the little brass hammer I posted on the previous page (post #1887) was not a home-made job, but was made by Goodell-Pratt.
There are no visible markings on the handle (as shown in this catalog illustration) and no markings on the ferrule. I always thought this thing was just too well-made to be some sort of home-made device:


1914 Seattle Hardware Co. catalog Goodell Pratt Model 91 92 93 94 brass machinist hammer

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Cross-linking a ca. 1872 Stanley tack hammer and puller I found at the flea market this morning.

 

[MidMoBob]

Stupid question: How do you determine the weight of a hammer? Just weigh it? How do you account for the weight of the handle? Is that just rounding error?

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Stupid question: How do you determine the weight of a hammer? Just weigh it? How do you account for the weight of the handle? Is that just rounding error?

It's not an insignificant proportion, especially for smaller hammers.
e.g. 300g head 65g wood handle (18% of 365g), 1000g head 160g wood handle (14% of 1160g).

Using scales, I seem to remember you can get pretty close by laying it face down, and holding the shaft horizontally by its end. If the sizes in the range are known (e.g. 8-16-24-32 oz), you can then guess the likely one.

I don't believe it's possible in physics to do it exactly without removing the handle.

For known models whose manufacturers list total weight (but not head weight), which is unusual, and also sell replacement handles with a specified weight, you can calculate it by subtraction. This is what I did for Halder deadblows.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I don't know about other hammers, or modern ball-peins, but vintage ball-peins were listed and sold by the weight of the head only. The weight of the handle was not included.

 

[Kentc]

Stupid question: How do you determine the weight of a hammer? Just weigh it? How do you account for the weight of the handle? Is that just rounding error?

From experience, it is a mixed bag. The advertised weight on some hammers is the whole hammer (trusty cook dead blow), others it is just the head (typically sledge, engineers, drilling, ball peen), and some it is the head + a portion of the handle (claw, framing, dead blow and others). there does not appear to be much of a standard.

 

[Kentc]

Sledge hammer questions for the group.

I have had a 4 lb and 10 lb hickory handled sledge hammer for years. It has come time to replace the handles again and I am debating a more durable solution. A friend mentioned the Wilton BASH hammers (they seem pricey) but I have been looking at various Fiberglass handles hammers.

Questions:
- What brand fiberglass handled hammer do you have and have you had any issues with fiberglass in the past?
- Anyone have experience with the Wilton BASH hammers? Are they worth it?

 

[Outlawmws]

Personally, I prefer and stay with wood.

 

[Beerhippie]

Personally, I prefer and stay with wood.

Yeah, it's amazing how much longer wood handles last after you learn how to aim.

 

[four.cycle]

What brand fiberglass handled hammer do you have and have you had any issues with fiberglass in the past?

ONE. An old Indestro 16-ounce ball pein. I'm too cheap and too lazy to remove the handle and replace it with a decent piece of hickory or ash, so I just cuss at it every time I pull it out to use it.
Fiberglass might be great stuff to build boat hulls out of, but it's a poor choice for a handle on a tool.

How much to you value your rotator cuffs?

 

[Beerhippie]

ONE. An old Indestro 16-ounce ball pein. I'm too cheap and too lazy to remove the handle and replace it with a decent piece of hickory or ash, so I just cuss at it every time I pull it out to use it.
Fiberglass might be great stuff to build boat hulls out of, but it's a poor choice for a handle on a tool.

How much to you value your rotator cuffs?

It's your elbow that goes first from using glass/metal handle hammers.

I was watching a prospecting video last night. Guy was using what looked like a 16 oz claw hammer w/solid steel handle to drive feather wedges. My right elbow is still painful after that. I'm tempted to send him one of my drilling hammers--but not enough to actually do it.

 

[four.cycle]

^ My elbows are okay. I blew out both rotator cuffs 20 years ago cutting wood. I no longer dig holes or cut wood.

 

[Beerhippie]

^ My elbows are okay. I blew out both rotator cuffs 20 years ago cutting wood. I no longer dig holes or cut wood.

I pretty much ruined my right elbow by swinging a carpenter's hammer for twenty years. My shoulders I broke riding bikes and skiing.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

I've just got a full set (4 to 32oz) of new ball peins with wooden handles, and the weights seem a bit off.

I picked up the 12oz, felt like a 16oz. Actual 16oz feels a bit heavy, so does the 24oz when it should be 3/4 of 32oz.

edit: ignore my previous nonsense.

I found the spec replacement handle weights. If we trust those, by subtraction, they're all on spec except:

12oz is 13oz - a little overweight but not as much as I thought.

16oz is 15oz - my feeling was totally wrong on this one.

32oz is 29oz - so that's why the 24oz felt heavy and not 3/4 of the 32oz.

 

[four.cycle]

I spent a couple hours out in back working on those hammers I picked up yesterday (below). I didn't realize until after I begain cleaning it off with a brush that one of them was a Plomb body hammer.
I suppose the green-striped handle should have offered a clue, but it was so dirty I didn't really notice it.



The others are:
- a tiny 4-ounce ball peen, stamped only "STANDARD" and "MADE IN U.S.A" on one side, and what appears to be "4509" on the other.
- an unmarked ball peen
- an "Occident" tack hammer. "Occident" was a private label brand of the Seattle Hardware Co.