Harbor Freight test lab

[oldtools]

HF long term plan to compete against SO.

 

[6PTsocket]

Let me put it to you this way. I worked in the semiconductor industry, the highest level of technology on Earth. All of us thought that America would rule the world of semiconductors forever as we were God's chosen people. No way anybody could beat us. Then during the 1970's Japan became a world power in semiconductors and in the 1980's Korea became one and in the 1990's Taiwan's government basically financed Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Inc. which is now the world's #1 silicon foundry. Only Intel and to a lesser extent TI and Global Foundries (owned by Dubai) still have substantial semiconductor manufacturing in the United States. China makes more high end chips than we do by a lot.

Come on, man! you say. I say why don't you take a look at recent history. If China can build I-phones and semiconductors do you honestly think that building something high quality made of steel and plastic is out of their reach. Come on, man.

Harbor Freight has the size and the number of retail outlets now in Phoenix that Sears use to have in this city. They can easily, as they have already demonstrated, go upscale with their product's quality.

Be as blind and stupid as we were in the semiconductor industry. Autel, made in China, is already undercutting Snap-On's scanner business by a factor of 4. There is little question that the Maxisys is hurting Verus sales. It's just about as good and cost 1/4th the price. Harbor Freight is positioned to do the same in hand tools. This will not occur overnight obviously, neither did the movement of the semiconductor industry to Asia, but give it five years, as I've previously stated and a lot of people on this forum will be eating crow.

While electronics may be advancing the machine tooling and cutting tools they ship here are garbage. If they make good stuff they keep it at home. Taiwan has become a machinery power house, I'll admit. If you know where to get a Chinese tap and die set that is not utter garbage, there are people looking for one in these threads all the time. Go to the machinst sites and read about their import Asian tooling. Read about the deterioration of Hein Werner since the Chinese bought it Delta used to be a big brand but since Taiwanese Chang Type bought it, not so much.I have no doubt about the Chinese doing anything they set their minds to but at present there seems to bpe a problem with their tool steel. They also offer different grades You can buy good or cheap. Guess which one HF buys.The Chinese really aught to get an English speaker to write their manuals. Funny you should mention Autel; I was looking at their TPMS tool this morning.

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[Hiball]

Without any preconceived bias, He did a review on a Chinese-made floor jack and the worst thing he could say about it was that it "had a crappy o-ring"?

Just so we are clear... If im going to be quoted. It wasn't just a "crappy Oring" it was Shell/Oring they used as a Piston seal on the Main Ram + the crappy cartridge valve system + Hydraulic unit tank nut that was crumbling as it came apart + Mickey Mouse Magnetic filtration system + terrible fitment of the pump Pistons into the cylinders (no wonder it has so much grease from the factory). If they would have simply spent that extra .50 cents for a Poly Ucup like they used on the pumps, they would have honored there "premium seals" advertisement.

Now you guys can get back to your HF takes over the world discussions, Pardon My intrusion..

 

[6PTsocket]

I've said it before on these forums. I live in the same town as the headquarters of Harbor Freight. I have a friend who worked for them for many years in HR. Occasionally they did tours of the lab, and she (who knew nothing of tools), always said never buy the power tools. The hand tools in her opinion seemed ok, but she supposedly saw some fairly horrific failures with their power tools.

That agrees with another post I read a long time ago. " Never buy anything from Harbor Freight that plugs in".

When I taught air conditioning my students, (college age) broke dozens of Snap on, Robinaire and several other name brand valve knobs every year. Take the valve stem assembly out of any brand manifold set and look at the stem seat, soft plastic material that only needs finger tightening. I finally kept a stem out to pass around in lecture class to make the point that over-tightening was not necessary. I guess the logic of over-tightening is that it is a high pressure as in
"Torquing" brake bleeder screws to at least 100 foot pounds to contain the high brake system pressure.

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[jd_1138]

Independent testing... At their lab... Which looks like an average community college. Fits right in at harbor fright.

Yeah, it looks kinda cobbled together and not professional like a permanent lab.

 

[tig]

When it comes to most tools you get what you pay for. Cheap is cheap. Nothing wrong with buying HF tools as long as you don't have high expectations.

 

[Ratchet Guy]

I believe that Harbor Freight is at least trying to put some assurance that some of the tools they carry has been tested and being offered for a much cheaper options for consumers.

 

[kwschumm]

Is that the highly respected Harbor Freight Shipping & Palletizing lab? It's nice to know they put so much effort into packaging their products.

 

[MoparTrucks]

Some of the Harbor Freight hand tools have really come up in quality and are fine for the hobbyist or for populating a secondary box at the cabin, etc. But to me, where Harbor Freight is useful is in providing "kits" for things like the horizontal band saw, hydraulic press, parts washer etc. which are identical to many other so called higher end brands (not Snap-On, MAC etc but the mid level stuff).

I would not have the tools I currently have if it was not for HF and I use them all the time but I upgrade them with better grease and oil, grade 8 bolts etc. Just taking the 20 gal parts washer which you can get for about $89 with a coupon at HF, they are up to $169 at other stores and its the same design, same Chinese manufacturer, and identical in virtually every way except paint color.

Harbor Freight's quality for many items has greatly improved but prices have started to creep up and who knows what will happen if we get into a trade war with China but those of you who dismiss HF as a non-player in the tool business might be in for a surprise.

I understand a professional wanting the best tool there is for his profession but for a non-professional its hard to justify those prices and it is just two separate markets. Craftsman used to have the DIY market pretty nailed down but they let it slip away; be interesting to see what happens with their new takeover and probable marketing through Walmart.

 

[zendriver]

Just so we are clear... If im going to be quoted. It wasn't just a "crappy Oring" it was Shell/Oring they used as a Piston seal on the Main Ram + the crappy cartridge valve system + Hydraulic unit tank nut that was crumbling as it came apart + Mickey Mouse Magnetic filtration system + terrible fitment of the pump Pistons into the cylinders (no wonder it has so much grease from the factory). If they would have simply spent that extra .50 cents for a Poly Ucup like they used on the pumps, they would have honored there "premium seals" advertisement.

Now you guys can get back to your HF takes over the world discussions, Pardon My intrusion..

Fair enough, but at the end of the day, most people expect their jack to raise and lower, when they need it to, not so much as expecting mechanical perfection.

Either they do or they don't and it seems by most accounts, HF jacks do.

Seeing how American made jacks all sell repair kits, they must have their share of issues as well.

 

[Hiball]

Fair enough, but at the end of the day, most people expect their jack to raise and lower, when they need it to, not so much as expecting mechanical perfection.

Either they do or they don't and it seems by most accounts, HF jacks do.

Seeing how American made jacks all sell repair kits, they must have their share of issues as well.

I have no intentions of arguing American versus HF because there is a multitude of quality lift equipment out there, that doesn't originate here in the states, I'll leave that argument up to you guys. If I give a opinion, it's backed up with pictures/details and years of experience with working around these individual components, NOT COO.. I used to dabble in truckload tool surplus auctions, I've seen pictures of HF jacks piled 50 deep into totes headed to these auctions by the truckload, check out Tadd wholesale on eBay, look at present and past auctions. It's not the design, it's the cheap components, Poor QC that shortens there life. IMO.. A lot of this done purposely so the manufacturer can control future sales, Daytona is a prime example, Absolutely No reason to use poly Ucups on the pumps then cheap out on the Main ram.

I feel dumber even responding to your "must have there share of issues" concerning American jacks, but whatever... Yes, hydraulic seals, Even quality components don't have a lifetime duty cycle, but the thing those jacks do have in common is that your talking about 15+ year old jacks or older. I've had old timers bring 50+ year old weavers into the shop, for there first service (don't reccomend) but it Leather seals where very resistant to wear.

 

[B_Bimmer]

I feel dumber even responding to your "must have there share of issues" concerning American jacks, but whatever...

Oh Hiball, I love your dedication and comments. There are soooo many times on this forum and all over the vast web of fools where there is so much misinformation it makes me nauseous, I am thankful for people like you who are willing to wade in and share bits of truth to lead those who are able to the truth.

 

[avmaine]

The problem with much of HF is that item to item the quality varies too much, not just some things are good/bad. Almost everything I look at to buy I end up checking all on the shelf and picking the "good" ones.

I've always felt that way about the harbor freight deep impacts. I always inspect them very carefully. We use them as throw aways at work for emergencies.

 

[6PTsocket]

Fair enough, but at the end of the day, most people expect their jack to raise and lower, when they need it to, not so much as expecting mechanical perfection.

Either they do or they don't and it seems by most accounts, HF jacks do.

Seeing how American made jacks all sell repair kits, they must have their share of issues as well.

No they sell repair kits because after many years of hard service they ARE repairable. Try HF for product support on an old tool, try HF for product support on a new tool. People that have had premature failures after their " generous" 90 day warranty runs out are told that they should have bought the extended warranty coverage. When you say you only want it to work but you don't care if it is a crumbling piece of **** inside can you explain how that works? I spoke to the rep from one of the biggest Chinese jack importers and she told me that they have quality lines that they have repair parts for and discount store lines that that there are no parts for because they are considered throw aways. Repair kits are a sign of quality. It means that it is worth repairing.



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[PFSard]

I have no idea why I'm visiting this thread. I've only been in Harbor Freight 3X. There were a lot of people in the checkout lines (and in the store). The only item I have bought there was a set of left hand drill bits (for home use), which I used once with success.

My garage is full of used tools and supplies I bought at garage sales, estate sales, and Craigslist. And freebies from the dumpsters around here. So I have little desire to buy at Harbor Freight, especially given a lot of the bad press I see here.

I would be interested in reading an objective, analytical study as to why Harbor Freight has been so successful in expanding their chain of stores. If anyone could provide a link or reference, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[justanengineer]

And just when was that??

90s-real early Y2ks HF still sold some half decent industrial items - Chicago Pneumatic air tools, Milwaukee power tools, and a few other brands which escape me atm. Many machinists bought their Hardinge knockoff indexers, angle plates, Kurt vise clones, carbide tool grinders, and stores stocked 12x36/13x40'ish lathes, Bridgeport clones, cabinet saws, and heavy Pexto-knockoff sheetmetal equipment requiring a truck and forklift to move. You could buy some real iron dirt cheap and the quality was often surprisingly good. Its only been the past 10-15 years they've cut back their product lines, leaving heavier items for Grizz to sell and focusing on toy "machines." At the same time they got rid of the better outside brands, started self-branding small items, quality started sucking ***, and prices started rapidly rising. Granted, some of its always been junk but at least previously it was cheap, anymore its comparable to other stores - the 8" benchtop DP's **** quality didnt seem nearly as bad at $25 as it does at $65.

I've still got a few mill fixtures that are used regularly and my wife has some of the unmarked Taiwan hand tools I beat on as a young tech, every time I see the later I cant help but chuckle over comments about how good the current product is bc its **** comparably.

 

[derosa]

I have no idea why I'm visiting this thread. I've only been in Harbor Freight 3X. There were a lot of people in the checkout lines (and in the store). The only item I have bought there was a set of left hand drill bits (for home use), which I used once with success.

My garage is full of used tools and supplies I bought at garage sales, estate sales, and Craigslist. And freebies from the dumpsters around here. So I have little desire to buy at Harbor Freight, especially given a lot of the bad press I see here.

I would be interested in reading an objective, analytical study as to why Harbor Freight has been so successful in expanding their chain of stores. If anyone could provide a link or reference, I would greatly appreciate it.

Don't have a reference just a perspective. When I had to replace the 8" x8" bottom plate of my house I could afford 6 bottle jacks from HF that would get the job of lifting and holding the house up for a day, 2-3 if something went wrong in the process. As a home owner it was worth it. I still have them with no clue if they will ever leave the corner of the barn. When I needed cheap rags they're right there, I've known a couple people who have completely redone the house floors with the flooring nailer and then yard sale them for 1/2 price. Taking in the odds of a homeowner ever redoing that job it makes a higher quality flooring nailer worthwhile only in relation to the cost of renting, which means neither is a good affordable option for a one time job but the HF is.
Their dust collector is cheap but it does the job, to optimize the results some upgrades are needed but unless you start off with a 1000+ dollar dust collector they all need the same upgrades, at least the starting cost was less and several hundred hours of use later it still fires up when I have a year old grizzly with a melted motor and lousy customer service. All of their stuff is junky, but for a homeowner that needs to do a job that they will hopefully never do again the economics say to get the HF and do the job.

 

[bmwpowere36m3]

Don't have a reference just a perspective. When I had to replace the 8" x8" bottom plate of my house I could afford 6 bottle jacks from HF that would get the job of lifting and holding the house up for a day, 2-3 if something went wrong in the process. As a home owner it was worth it. I still have them with no clue if they will ever leave the corner of the barn. When I needed cheap rags they're right there, I've known a couple people who have completely redone the house floors with the flooring nailer and then yard sale them for 1/2 price. Taking in the odds of a homeowner ever redoing that job it makes a higher quality flooring nailer worthwhile only in relation to the cost of renting, which means neither is a good affordable option for a one time job but the HF is.
Their dust collector is cheap but it does the job, to optimize the results some upgrades are needed but unless you start off with a 1000+ dollar dust collector they all need the same upgrades, at least the starting cost was less and several hundred hours of use later it still fires up when I have a year old grizzly with a melted motor and lousy customer service. All of their stuff is junky, but for a homeowner that needs to do a job that they will hopefully never do again the economics say to get the HF and do the job.

+1

I buy stuff that I don't use often or only use once... like a hardwood nailer, did my whole house ($100 or $50/day renting) and a framing nailer that I put 1000s of nails thru. Very nice Snap-On knock-off ratchets... just to try out for $20. Two jacks, mostly backup as I use a lift 99% of the time. A lot of nitrile gloves

I wouldn't go as far as saying their junky... certain items for sure. You get what you pay for and generally you are paying much.

 

[Corndoggeh]

Does it smell like mystery rubber?

New Jelly Belly flavor! "Questionable offshore rubber"

 

[M_George]

I have found that you need to check any tool that comes in a box. Three times I found used or returned tools on the shelf.

 

[555]

I've said it before on these forums. I live in the same town as the headquarters of Harbor Freight. I have a friend who worked for them for many years in HR. Occasionally they did tours of the lab, and she (who knew nothing of tools), always said never buy the power tools. The hand tools in her opinion seemed ok, but she supposedly saw some fairly horrific failures with their power tools.

We drove the southern route to Virginia just before Christmas and passed the HF headquarters. It is pretty impressive and since they are adding 5 or more new stores a month, they have a business plan. I also tell my wife, never buy anything that from HF that plugs in or uses batteries.

I had a really good conversation today with a couple of guys on the Jalopy Journal HAMB site regarding product development and quality control. HF was one of the topics and one of the guys said when you sell at the HF volume you don't need QC. I guess he is right.

Regards,
John

 

[Adam.C]

Bought a HF HVLP gun day before yesterday. Attached regulator was complete garbage, as in non functional. All the fittings on the gun were poorly threaded and corroded in place. Step 1 I had to disassemble the entire product to clean and repair it.

If harbor freight has a test lab, they must smoke a lot of pot there. That, or the Chinese ship good items for the test lab, they after you lot raved about them, they slowly fade the quality until they are useless junk.

 

[thegreatone]

Might Depend on how long Americans continue to have less money.

HF annual revenue $2.3B
Snap on annual revenue $3.5B

May not put them out of business, but certainly a force to be reckoned with.

Let's not mention Craftsman.

I wonder what those mean in terms of actual numbers of tools sold. I would guess you could buy 8 HF for the cost of an equilivant Snap-on. Looks like the freight is putting quite a few more tools in toolboxes.

 

[seanh303]

Back in the day, when I was poor (and dumb) and getting started on cars, I shopped on my local craigslist for tool deals. I came across a Pittsburgh 37824 46 Piece Bolt Puller Set for 20 or 30 bucks and excitedly contacted the seller to go snag what I was convinced was a steal.

I had no knowledge of harbor freight and their ****** tools, wasn't to saavy at cross-checking, and blindly believed "Pittsburgh" was a good tool brand and I was buying a good tool set at a good price. I soon realized I had paid twice what this chinese POS set would have cost in the store. Burned.

That is the 1 and only harbor freight item I have ever, and will ever buy in my life. You guys that patronize that place are the reason why future generations will only have a selection of ****** tool brands to choose from.

I do find great deals on great tools, and that's always satisfying. But I refuse to compromise and support companies with no integrity. Occasionally, I buy items that once were made in the USA or other friendly countries, only to discover the manufacturer has jumped on the outsource sellout train. Although that once beloved company burned me with a quiet bait and switch, I refuse to stoop to their level. So if that misrepresented item can't be returned, I don't dream of selling it. If it's not something I would buy, it's not something I will sell. That's how I run my business...with integrity. And if I can't succeed in this market with that model, I'll find something else to do.

 

[zendriver]

Oh Hiball, I love your dedication and comments. There are soooo many times on this forum and all over the vast web of fools where there is so much misinformation it makes me nauseous, I am thankful for people like you who are willing to wade in and share bits of truth to lead those who are able to the truth.

Fools?

Most people realize, that inexpensive Chinese-made products, are usually not of the same quality and build, as their more expensive American made counterpart, but they are just often in a position, where they cannot afford perfection, even if they wanted to.

Open one's eyes and Look around, to see what crappy pay, auto mechanics are getting now days and how expensive everything is to repair, forcing more DIY repairs. People need tools and they generally don't have money to burn.

Judging by the results, form this forum and elsewhere, most people report getting overall great results from imported tools, they seem to work just fine- often for years, for sometimes 1/4 the cost, of something "better".

In this ******, extremely expensive, economy we live in, where our financial future is uncertain, maybe they are the ones, who are NOT the fools.

 

[livwell]

All you guys are bashing HF ..but are still going back with your 20% coupons lol...Its good when you need a tool you dont use often ,but you need it,plus its better than asking your neighbor for it that you dont even like anyway!!!

 

[B_Bimmer]

Fools?

Most people realize, that inexpensive Chinese-made products, are usually not of the same quality and build, as their more expensive American made counterpart, but they are just often in a position, where they cannot afford perfection, even if they wanted to.

Open one's eyes and Look around, to see what crappy pay, auto mechanics are getting now days and how expensive everything is to repair, forcing more DIY repairs. People need tools and they generally don't have money to burn.

Judging by the results, form this forum and elsewhere, most people report getting overall great results from imported tools, they seem to work just fine- often for years, for sometimes 1/4 the cost, of something "better".

In this ******, extremely expensive, economy we live in, where our financial future is uncertain, maybe they are the ones, who are NOT the fools.

You are funny. Most of the people who sing the praises of harbor fright on here and across the broad expanse of the internet are tool polishers with a "lot" of sunk cost in tools from there. I know, I was once one of them. However, that was several years ago and since I actually use my tools I have watched the failures stack up. Fortunatly there are a lot of old quality tools around me so it didn't take long to realize there was a common thread in what lasted. It was NOT that they came from harbor fright.

In much the same way as you claim, I used to think I couldn't afford good boots. Wow am I glad for that first pair of red wing boots on clearance at a local farm store. I went from a pair lasting three to four months to a year and a half or better. Now I only regret the small amounts of money I wasted on those cheap poorly crafted pieces of junk I used to buy. Don't get me wrong, even with cheap boots there were bright spots, long ago kmart used to sell markedly better cheap boots, these are like the few tools at harbor fright that are acceptable. In the end though sorting through the junk costs you, and if you have any commitment to fixing things, it's not worth it.

I don't know where you are looking to see "great results" from harbor fright tools. But if it's in the tool collections of the many people on this forum with a spotless toolbox, I'll give you a little hint, those people are not mechanics. In a real mechanics box the soft handles are dirty beyond recognition and hard handles have had the print worn away. In addition even if they have good tools, stuff will have been broken and been replaced and, GARAGE JOURNAL HORROR, not match.

In the end you are probably right, "fools" is perhaps a little harsh, "blind and shortsighted" would be better.

 

[toddoky]

Fools?

Most people realize, that inexpensive Chinese-made products, are usually not of the same quality and build, as their more expensive American made counterpart, but they are just often in a position, where they cannot afford perfection, even if they wanted to.

Open one's eyes and Look around, to see what crappy pay, auto mechanics are getting now days and how expensive everything is to repair, forcing more DIY repairs. People need tools and they generally don't have money to burn.

Judging by the results, form this forum and elsewhere, most people report getting overall great results from imported tools, they seem to work just fine- often for years, for sometimes 1/4 the cost, of something "better".

In this ******, extremely expensive, economy we live in, where our financial future is uncertain, maybe they are the ones, who are NOT the fools.

Part of the problem to this and all similar discussions is assumptions being made (not by you) that every user of tools on this forum is either a DIY'r or a low-paid auto tech. There are plenty of well-paid professionals who purchase tools and require them to be designed for a unique specific function, maximum accessibility (thin streamlined design), efficiency of speed, durability and minimum fatigue to the user. When cost becomes the least important factor to consider, there is almost always a product not found at HF that works far more efficiently and for a longer period of time than the similar item sold at HF. Professional tool users are smart enough to identify from experience the few products at HF that are worth cherry picking and we do so. It's ignorant for a weekend warrior to tell a guy who buys his tools to earn his income that he's wasting his money on tool truck/industrial tool brands, as he has no idea what the tool requirements such a work situation would require. I understand that tools from HF are normally sufficient for the primary customer base at which they are targeted, the DIY market.

 

[MikeF2316]

:
...
And as far as HF overtaking the world, aiming at Snap On and Mac, and putting everyone else out of business:

I like Harbor Freight for what they are, but you've earned a 'Come on, man!'

History is full of laughing experts who turned out to be wrong. Probably never more so than last year.

In Canada we have Princess Auto, which is similar to Harbor Freight. The first time I went in one, there was nothing that I wanted to buy. Now that store still has stuff that I wouldn't buy. But it has lots of good stuff, stuff I use frequently, stuff that doesn't break.

 

[Parrothead]

Part of the problem to this and all similar discussions is assumptions being made (not by you) that every user of tools on this forum is either a DIY'r or a low-paid auto tech. There are plenty of well-paid professionals who purchase tools and require them to be designed for a unique specific function, maximum accessibility (thin streamlined design), efficiency of speed, durability and minimum fatigue to the user. When cost becomes the least important factor to consider, there is almost always a product not found at HF that works far more efficiently and for a longer period of time than the similar item sold at HF. Professional tool users are smart enough to identify from experience the few products at HF that are worth cherry picking and we do so. It's ignorant for a weekend warrior to tell a guy who buys his tools to earn his income that he's wasting his money on tool truck/industrial tool brands, as he has no idea what the tool requirements such a work situation would require. I understand that tools from HF are normally sufficient for the primary customer base at which they are targeted, the DIY market.

Well said!

 

[Al Borland]

Part of the problem to this and all similar discussions is assumptions being made (not by you) that every user of tools on this forum is either a DIY'r or a low-paid auto tech. There are plenty of well-paid professionals who purchase tools and require them to be designed for a unique specific function, maximum accessibility (thin streamlined design), efficiency of speed, durability and minimum fatigue to the user. When cost becomes the least important factor to consider, there is almost always a product not found at HF that works far more efficiently and for a longer period of time than the similar item sold at HF. Professional tool users are smart enough to identify from experience the few products at HF that are worth cherry picking and we do so. It's ignorant for a weekend warrior to tell a guy who buys his tools to earn his income that he's wasting his money on tool truck/industrial tool brands, as he has no idea what the tool requirements such a work situation would require. I understand that tools from HF are normally sufficient for the primary customer base at which they are targeted, the DIY market.

Amen. Also, it matters what tools are used for and their typical "Lifespan". I use tools for demo, so don't have the same size-type constraints as an auto mechanic. I also abuse tools, and between myself and my crew, tend to lose tools. So I need tools that are sturdy, cheap and replaceable. Toolboxes aren't rolling around, they sit. Unlike a mechanic who is in and out of his toolbox 80 times a day, the tools for a task come out and usually go in a 5 gallon bucket for the duration of the job. Not the same as a mechanic by any means. Would I like to have/use Snap-on tools? Sure, but, they don't fit the business plan.
Find what works for you and use it.

 

[zendriver]

You are funny. Most of the people who sing the praises of harbor fright on here and across the broad expanse of the internet are tool polishers with a "lot" of sunk cost in tools from there. I know, I was once one of them. However, that was several years ago and since I actually use my tools I have watched the failures stack up. Fortunatly there are a lot of old quality tools around me so it didn't take long to realize there was a common thread in what lasted. It was NOT that they came from harbor fright.

In much the same way as you claim, I used to think I couldn't afford good boots. Wow am I glad for that first pair of red wing boots on clearance at a local farm store. I went from a pair lasting three to four months to a year and a half or better. Now I only regret the small amounts of money I wasted on those cheap poorly crafted pieces of junk I used to buy. Don't get me wrong, even with cheap boots there were bright spots, long ago kmart used to sell markedly better cheap boots, these are like the few tools at harbor fright that are acceptable. In the end though sorting through the junk costs you, and if you have any commitment to fixing things, it's not worth it.

I don't know where you are looking to see "great results" from harbor fright tools. But if it's in the tool collections of the many people on this forum with a spotless toolbox, I'll give you a little hint, those people are not mechanics. In a real mechanics box the soft handles are dirty beyond recognition and hard handles have had the print worn away. In addition even if they have good tools, stuff will have been broken and been replaced and, GARAGE JOURNAL HORROR, not match.

In the end you are probably right, "fools" is perhaps a little harsh, "blind and shortsighted" would be better.

If your experience was using Chinese tools from "several years ago", I would agree they were much more junky - often unusable then, but Times have changed.

I don't agree with you assessment on boots, since my now-Chinese made Wolverines, last 5+ years of daily hard use. I wish they were still American made but they are not and the Company still charges $80.

To me "great results" means that using the tool get the job done, whether it's used once week or 10 times a day. Wrenches generally don't wear out, so either they get the job done or they don't. If forced too hard, Snap On, Mac etc. wrenches and sockets fail also, but it makes perfect sense for professional mechanics, to use them, verses HF.

 

[zendriver]

Part of the problem to this and all similar discussions is assumptions being made (not by you) that every user of tools on this forum is either a DIY'r or a low-paid auto tech. There are plenty of well-paid professionals who purchase tools and require them to be designed for a unique specific function, maximum accessibility (thin streamlined design), efficiency of speed, durability and minimum fatigue to the user. When cost becomes the least important factor to consider, there is almost always a product not found at HF that works far more efficiently and for a longer period of time than the similar item sold at HF. Professional tool users are smart enough to identify from experience the few products at HF that are worth cherry picking and we do so. It's ignorant for a weekend warrior to tell a guy who buys his tools to earn his income that he's wasting his money on tool truck/industrial tool brands, as he has no idea what the tool requirements such a work situation would require. I understand that tools from HF are normally sufficient for the primary customer base at which they are targeted, the DIY market.

I never meant to imply, that everyone should use Harbor Freight tools. Personally, If I was a professional mechanic, I would likely not as well, for the reasons you have stated.

 

[pi_guy]

Part of the problem to this and all similar discussions is assumptions being made (not by you) that every user of tools on this forum is either a DIY'r or a low-paid auto tech. .

WRONG in so many ways.....

 

[6PTsocket]

Don't have a reference just a perspective. When I had to replace the 8" x8" bottom plate of my house I could afford 6 bottle jacks from HF that would get the job of lifting and holding the house up for a day, 2-3 if something went wrong in the process. As a home owner it was worth it. I still have them with no clue if they will ever leave the corner of the barn. When I needed cheap rags they're right there, I've known a couple people who have completely redone the house floors with the flooring nailer and then yard sale them for 1/2 price. Taking in the odds of a homeowner ever redoing that job it makes a higher quality flooring nailer worthwhile only in relation to the cost of renting, which means neither is a good affordable option for a one time job but the HF is.
Their dust collector is cheap but it does the job, to optimize the results some upgrades are needed but unless you start off with a 1000+ dollar dust collector they all need the same upgrades, at least the starting cost was less and several hundred hours of use later it still fires up when I have a year old grizzly with a melted motor and lousy customer service. All of their stuff is junky, but for a homeowner that needs to do a job that they will hopefully never do again the economics say to get the HF and do the job.

That's part of it. Some of their tools are not that bad. I have no idea how long the impact sockets, or the hex bits would work in a shop but mine have stood up fine at home. The 44" tool cabinet set is hugely popular. Their alkaline batteries are a good deal. The Eartquake line works well at a good price.There is another thread called HF hits and misses. They are a very mixed bag. People also have different needs. There are also people at both ends of the spectrum from tool snobs that only think the best name brands will do in every situation to very light duty users that think HF is uniformly high quality based on a few lightly used purchases. Lastly many will drive 100 miles through a blizzard for a free flashlight. They are a good deal for many but be prepared to deal with some problems. They have found a niche and are making out like a champ. The deterioration of Sears has not hurt them either. They are a privately held company that some clever guy has turned into a gold mine. If the access to cheaply made Chinese tools changes, his fortunes may as well.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[toddoky]

WRONG in so many ways.....

That's your opinion, mine happens to be different.

 

[Corndoggeh]

I think a good test for HF compressor is their continuous run time until they decide to grenade.

 

[the GOAT]

 

[Skin]

I don't agree with you assessment on boots, since my now-Chinese made Wolverines, last 5+ years of daily hard use. I wish they were still American made but they are not and the Company still charges $80.

$80? Is that suppose to be a lot? You cant even buy a good crosstrainer or running shoe for that let alone a work boot. Would you buy them if they were a more realistic $150 and domestic made?

But I refuse to compromise and support companies with no integrity.

Then on the opposite side of the spectrum you have truck brands that are based entirely on keeping poorly paid mechanics in debt with outrageous tool prices and selling guys into almost guaranteed to fail franchises at the low low price of 150-200k which they happily loan you.

They have integrity? You cant define integrity by product quality alone.


As far as HF shoppers being "tool polishers" i'd say its the opposite. People at HF are buying the cheapest tools to make a job happen. I've seen far more guys on here showing off their drawers and drawers full of Snap-On (occasionally tools in duplicate or triplicate) without the slightest signs of use, and it makes sense. If you have the disposable funds to burn on truck tools to show off you certainly aren't going to be doing much mechanically other than maybe changing your oil or brakes so those tools will remain quite mint. Those guys have the means/funds to send more serious jobs to professional shops, with more HF and Craftsman than you think in them by the way.

 

[Tonellin]

You are funny. Most of the people who sing the praises of harbor fright on here and across the broad expanse of the internet are tool polishers with a "lot" of sunk cost in tools from there. I know, I was once one of them. However, that was several years ago and since I actually use my tools I have watched the failures stack up. Fortunatly there are a lot of old quality tools around me so it didn't take long to realize there was a common thread in what lasted. It was NOT that they came from harbor fright.

In much the same way as you claim, I used to think I couldn't afford good boots. Wow am I glad for that first pair of red wing boots on clearance at a local farm store. I went from a pair lasting three to four months to a year and a half or better. Now I only regret the small amounts of money I wasted on those cheap poorly crafted pieces of junk I used to buy. Don't get me wrong, even with cheap boots there were bright spots, long ago kmart used to sell markedly better cheap boots, these are like the few tools at harbor fright that are acceptable. In the end though sorting through the junk costs you, and if you have any commitment to fixing things, it's not worth it.

I don't know where you are looking to see "great results" from harbor fright tools. But if it's in the tool collections of the many people on this forum with a spotless toolbox, I'll give you a little hint, those people are not mechanics. In a real mechanics box the soft handles are dirty beyond recognition and hard handles have had the print worn away. In addition even if they have good tools, stuff will have been broken and been replaced and, GARAGE JOURNAL HORROR, not match.

In the end you are probably right, "fools" is perhaps a little harsh, "blind and shortsighted" would be better.

Really?? The people that buy HF are the tool polishers???