Having Some Wiring Trouble

[niferous]

I sure hope someone here can help me as I have family coming in for Thanksgiving and this was supposed to be a simple install. I'm replacing an oven and I pulled the old one out last night while I had some help to lift it out. Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the wiring when I pulled it. So I got everything ready to install and wired the black, white, red, and bare copper to the wall. I hooked up black to black, white to white, and red to red. It turned the power on and the stove beeped twice and flashed the display then turned off. I turned the power off and researched what I may be doing wrong. I think I should have done black to black, white to red, and then combined white (from the oven) to the bare copper from the oven and the wall.

So it looked like this:

I turned on the power and nothing. I'm really confused and I'm hoping at this point that I didn't screw something up when I hooked it up the first time.

Can someone give me an idea of what I should be checking? Or maybe I'm doing it wrong now?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I'm not a electrican but i may be able to help you until one chimes in.
the wires coming from the new stove are: the black gets hooked to 120volts, the red gets hooked to 120volts and the white is a neutral wire (its there because the stove my have some 120volt items like a clock)..........assuming you had 240 volts there before the existing wires were black 120 volts white 120 volts. I don't see any red wire there coming out of the romax. is there a red wire there?
check your fuse box and make sure you didn't blow any fuses, if you hooked that white wire coming from the new stove to the white coming out of the romax you may have blown a fuse.
actually the way you have it hooked up in the picture it should work but its not correct or meets code.........the white wire should not be connected to the ground wire.

 

[niferous]

There is no red wire coming from the wall. I checked the fuses on my circuit breaker and none were tripped. I assume when you say blew a fuse you mean on my home's electrical panel? Unfortunately the previous owner didn't mark them at all so I'm still trying to figure out what powers what. So you're saying it should work, it just won't be to code?

By the way, here is the wiring instructions from the manual.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

you did have a 240 volt stove there before right?

 

[mrobins297aaa]

try turning that circuit breaker (in the home panel) off and then back on again, sometimes they can look ok but actually there tripped.

 

[niferous]

Yes. It had a microwave and an oven there before. I will go get my meter and see if it has power to the wires. No idea why I didn't do that before.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

make sure you have 240 volts between the black and white wires.........and 120 volts between the black and the ground and 120 v between the white and ground

 

[niferous]

I don't have a way to test them together right now but I just got 120v from the black and the white out of the wall. I just touched the exposed black wire with my red probe and the ground. Then did the same for the white. I'm going to see if I can narrow down with breaker it is.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

looks like you have 240 there if you didn't you would have got nothing from the white to the ground...............make sure there isn't circuit breaker on the stove somewhere that you may have tripped.............the breaker in the house panel should be easy to find, it should be two breakers tied together........i'd bet 30 or 40 amps

 

[MrMark]

As smartly pointed out, it should work the way it is hooked up now, but it is totally unsafe and not to code. You are also looking at the wrong picture in the instructions. That is for OLD 3 wire feeds that had no bare ground, just the two hots (red and black) and the neutral (white). You have a bare ground. But, you have no provision for dual voltage (240/120) with your current setup.

You said initially you hooked red to red but there is no red. I would guess you smoked the stove because you didn't research this or ask questions first.

I imagine you hooked the white coming out of the wall (which no doubt is 120V hot but not marked of course) to the white neutral on your whip when you first did this. That would probably let the smoke out of your control panel which uses the 120V because you put 240 on that control panel.

 

[niferous]

As smartly pointed out, it should work the way it is hooked up now, but it is totally unsafe and not to code. You are also looking at the wrong picture in the instructions. That is for OLD 3 wire feeds that had no bare ground, just the two hots (red and black) and the neutral (white). You have a bare ground. But, you have no provision for dual voltage (240/120) with your current setup.

You said initially you hooked red to red but there is no red. I would guess you smoked the stove because you didn't research this or ask questions first.

I imagine you hooked the white coming out of the wall (which no doubt is 120V hot but not marked of course) to the white neutral on your whip when you first did this. That would probably let the smoke out of your control panel which uses the 120V because you put 240 on that control panel.

Sorry, I meant to say I hooked red to the bare wire when I first hooked it up. It looks like I just need to call Sears and get the guy out to see about fixing the oven.

Also I did pull the back metal panel off to see if there was anything that looked burnt or "smoked" and everything looks just fine. As I said, I will probably just call Sears in the morning and have them come check it out.

 

[MrMark]

OK, well if you hooked red to ground that means Red was dead so to speak. That means you had no 240V heating capability when you initially wired it. You did have white to white which means that the control panel - if it took its hot feed off the black wire, which it probably did since it won't turn on now - had 240 across its circuits. You may need a new control panel.

Your bigger problem is that someone butchered in that wire and had the previous setup hooked the same way you do now. You need to pull that out and get in a proper 4 wire cable with red, black, white and green if you are going to run a dual voltage stove.

 

[G_P]

You have a 3 wire hookup coming out of the wall 2 hots and a ground.

Your stove needs a 4 wire. 2 hots 1 neutral and a ground. The new stove uses 240v and 120v where your old stove was only 240v.

If you call out an appliance tech they will just tell you to call an electrician to run a new correct 4 wire circuit to the stove.
I think that using the ground as a neutral to get 120v from a 240v circuit is hack.

Also where is the outlet? You cant just wire nut the wires together and leave them exposed like that. It needs a 4 wire outlet or needs to be hard wired in a junction box.

 

[compressornew]

Remove the wiring adhesive tapes and check the power supply on wires.If you want to replace it then fold the top corner and replace with wall hole.

 

[ratman2]

You have a 3 wire hookup coming out of the wall 2 hots and a ground.

Your stove needs a 4 wire. 2 hots 1 neutral and a ground. The new stove uses 240v and 120v where your old stove was only 240v.

If you call out an appliance tech they will just tell you to call an electrician to run a new correct 4 wire circuit to the stove.
I think that using the ground as a neutral to get 120v from a 240v circuit is hack.

Also where is the outlet? You cant just wire nut the wires together and leave them exposed like that. It needs a 4 wire outlet or needs to be hard wired in a junction box.

Using the ground to get the 120V was actually how it was done prior to the 2000 NEC. The problem with this is if there is an issue with the ground the outside of the stove can become live with 120V

 

[G_P]

Using the ground to get the 120V was actually how it was done prior to the 2000 NEC. The problem with this is if there is an issue with the ground the outside of the stove can become live with 120V

Thats why I consider using the ground as the neutral as hack work. Not going to be fun to get shocked while trying to cook dinner!

 

[Speedy Petey]

Using the ground to get the 120V was actually how it was done prior to the 2000 NEC. The problem with this is if there is an issue with the ground the outside of the stove can become live with 120V

WRONG! That is NOT how it was done.

See my reply here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225784

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Something doesnt look right here. What is the current rating of the stove/range? Im assuming its an electric range but the Romex coming out of the wall looks awfully small for a range circut. What is the gauge of the white Romex and what is the rating of the breaker feeding it? Also, is the breaker dual pole or single pole?

This is definitely a hack job! And to the others who think a bare ground is ok to use as a neutral better study more. Im sure speedy petey covered it but old 3-wire feeds did not use a bare ground/had NO separate grouding conductor and instead bonded the metal chassis/frame of appliances to the insulated neutral. A bare wire should NEVER be used as a neutral! Also, if this is fed from a subpanel, the correct repair would be to run a new 8/3 or 6/3 NM cable assuming the range requires a 40a or 50a branch circuit!

 

[James-W]

If you call out an appliance tech they will just tell you to call an electrician to run a new correct 4 wire circuit to the stove.
I think that using the ground as a neutral to get 120v from a 240v circuit is hack.

Also where is the outlet? You cant just wire nut the wires together and leave them exposed like that. It needs a 4 wire outlet or needs to be hard wired in a junction box.

I agree, the Sears repairman will most likely not want to install the oven unless you have the proper wiring for it. To do so would no doubt put Sears on the wrong end of a lawsuit should anything bad happen.

 

[MrMark]

Well, what ever happened with this? Was the control panel KO'd or what? What did you do for Thanksgiving dinner?

 

[kamesama980]

I don't have a way to test them together right now but I just got 120v from the black and the white out of the wall. I just touched the exposed black wire with my red probe and the ground. Then did the same for the white. I'm going to see if I can narrow down with breaker it is.

Just to be clear, you have:
120v from black to ground AND
120v from white to ground AND
240v from white to black
????

If yes to all 3 conditions, see the above replies. As mentioned, combining the neutral and ground is sketchy but functional and I'm not sure why the stove didn't turn on.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Just to be clear, you have:
120v from black to ground AND
120v from white to ground AND
240v from white to black
????

If yes to all 3 conditions, see the above replies. As mentioned, combining the neutral and ground is sketchy but functional and I'm not sure why the stove didn't turn on.

He probably hooked the range neutral to the white wire and smoked the control board with 240v!! :shocking