HD9 Installation Questions

[DerStig]

I have managed to stabilize the posts somewhat, they dont bend anymore as much and I can live with the current state.

My runways are completely level side to side, but there is some minor slope horizontally (as in the front of the car sits a tad higher than rear). I had to do this because my car wouldnt clear, its too low. I suspect the difference is about 3/4" between the two ends of the lift. Anyways I am explaining this because I dont know if it can explain the following issue I am about to describe (I dont think its related).

One of the posts (passenger front side) is having an issue with the ladder where as the runways go up to 2nd top most lock or so, it starts sticking out way too much and going to its side (see pictures). Also, right when this starts happening, the ladder synchronization gets completely messed up. For the first 10 or so locks, all locks engage right at the same time as if they are all one, but as it reaches there, it all goes haywire. Its only that 1 post. Other posts have their ladders also at an angle somewhat, but not too bad, certainly nothing like this.

 

[396_425]

Make sure your ladders are not touching the bottom of the post, binding will take place! The instructions give you a minimum measurement from the bottom for the ladders. If I were doing this.....I would make sure that all four posts are level with each other and proceed from there.

 

[396_425]

If you have to use plates to arrive at the correct levels, make your own or have someone help you. I needed 6 plates and BendPak wanted around $80 per plate, I made them for a total of $40. They will suggest you do the same thing....

 

[DerStig]

The lowest of the ladders is about 5/16" from the baseplate.

I'm quite confused about why this leaning is happening

 

[Al G]

Mine also move when I lift a car , I drove a rear wheel drive car on it and the whole lift shifted about 6 inches , scared me so I put 8 anchors and just remove them if I need to move the hoist, my posts will move a little when I raise a vehicle . Some one mention to take a deep breath and once you have it figured out it will be worth it . Ron

What kind of lift do you have? I've driven on and off my Bendpak hundreds of times and it's never moved.

 

[bobabuee]

2 things
1. that slot in the ladder it should not be there i have installed 3 hd-9 in last 3 yrs none of them had a slot.

2.your ladders are running thru the guide plastic guide blocks on horizontal cross beam i cant see how this would be angled something is not right.

take some more pics so can see what going on
the more better.

there should be 4 plastic guide blocks per side on the horizontal cross beam

 

[Al G]

2 things
1. that slot in the ladder it should not be there i have installed 3 hd-9 in last 3 yrs none of them had a slot.

2.your ladders are running thru the guide plastic guide blocks on horizontal cross beam i cant see how this would be angled something is not right.

take some more pics so can see what going on
the more better.

there should be 4 plastic guide blocks per side on the horizontal cross beam

The slot is a recent change. I just had a new lift installed last month and the slot was there. First time the installer had seen one. There is bolt that goes through the slot and the post with a spacer between the ladder and post.

 

[Al G]

I have managed to stabilize the posts somewhat, they dont bend anymore as much and I can live with the current state.

My runways are completely level side to side, but there is some minor slope horizontally (as in the front of the car sits a tad higher than rear). I had to do this because my car wouldnt clear, its too low. I suspect the difference is about 3/4" between the two ends of the lift. Anyways I am explaining this because I dont know if it can explain the following issue I am about to describe (I dont think its related).

One of the posts (passenger front side) is having an issue with the ladder where as the runways go up to 2nd top most lock or so, it starts sticking out way too much and going to its side (see pictures). Also, right when this starts happening, the ladder synchronization gets completely messed up. For the first 10 or so locks, all locks engage right at the same time as if they are all one, but as it reaches there, it all goes haywire. Its only that 1 post. Other posts have their ladders also at an angle somewhat, but not too bad, certainly nothing like this.

Is the ladder bent in the second photo?

 

[Z2V]

Take a GOOD pic of the top of the post and one of the top of the cross beam showing the guide blocks inside the post.

 

[bobabuee]

ok, on the slot i dont think he has the ladder running thru the guide blocks on the ladder in photo this would happen.

iwould like to see pics of cross beams and columns too

 

[DerStig]

Sorry Im very confused about what you are asking for. I apologize.

Just to clarify, the picture is taken when the lift is at the top lock, the guide and the cross member is all the way up top. I dont understand what you want me to take the picture of.

the ladder is not bent at all, its straight. What's happening is for the first 10 locks, all the locks synchronize and engage dead on at the same time. On the 11th lock and further, they go out of sync and this ladder starts "leaning" inwards and to the right. I dont know what to say

Also, I can see that generally speaking everytime any lock is engaged, that ladder swings wildly in my case.

Also what is that big rectangle/oval hole there? There is a hole on the post itself as well, I always thought you are supposed to connect the ladder to the post somehow.

 

[Z2V]

Something like these if you can.

 

[bobabuee]

yes ladders move or flap when on upper locks this is normal the oval hole is something new which i had not seen on my other install i guess it something to keep ladders from flapping back and forth, if you look at (z2v) photos this is what you should the black guide blocks ladder running through it. you locked down the ladder using top and bottom nuts?

take some more pics so we can help you . A pic is like 1000 words if we cant see we can only guess.

 

[Al G]

Since your ladders have slots at the bottom you should have four bolts, nuts and spacers that lock the ladders in their proper position at the bottom of the post. This won't necessarily solve whatever is going on at the top lock but it will keep the ladders from swinging.

I agree that a good photo of the beam, guide and ladder will help.

 

[DerStig]

I also realized now, my ladders have 14 safety locks? I am not going to complain because with my low ceiling this is like my dream come true. First safety lock is at 14" from the ground thats amazing. I dont know if they changed the design.

My user manual had a date of 08-2016 on it and my unit is november 2016 production. The manual does not say anything about the guide holes.

That being said. The kit did include quite thick and large metal shapes which i guess you could insert between the ladder and the column. They have a threaded hole which a bolt can screw in and at the back of the column there is a hole which the nut probably goes. I will call the company and ask today.

I will also take pictures and post them of the guides but basically the ladder is in the guides but the guides are not fully flush with the column and not perpendicular. Seems like there is some angle going on and the higher lift goes up that angle is causing it to stretch. Just my theory.

I am having major issues with this plumness though my floor is just horrible horrible quality it seems. 1954's construction what do you expect. 2 of the posts literally has their outer edges make contact with the concrete and 60-70% of it has space by as much as 1/4". When the lift is down its not so bad, the problem is when lift starts going up and it takes its natural perpendicular shape, the column bases lift up. I bought these rubber shims but i dont know how good it is.

This is not the slope of the garage I am talking about, I am talking about the floor has hills and valleys basically plus the baseplate itself is crooked and not straight. I might have to eventually bolt this down but I need to find anchors that are not too aggressive and destructive. If I drill that floor and something goes wrong and it cracks, its sayanora. There is no more room in the garage to push it aside or further. Also wouldnt drilling holes right where all the weight is being carried weaken the concrete? What if it collapses the concrete?

 

[DerStig]

Sorry this phone doesnt let me attach more than one picture but basically the plastic guides and the ladder look fine when you look at it from up top.

Also called bendpak yes this is a new feature. Unfortunately they couldnt tell me exactly how i should install the bolt because even they dont have documentation.

This new feature might address the problem I have but I am just concerned if there is a side to side movement like that by attaching the ladder to the post somewhat that will introduce lateral stress on the piece. I also dont know how tight or loose the bolt has to be.

 

[Al G]

It's hard to tell from your photo if the guides are in the correct location. Can you get one like the second photo z2v posted? The slots in the guide should capture both sides of the ladder.

For the bolts at the bottom of the ladder, place the spacer between the ladder and post then run the bolt in either direction through ladder, spacer and post. Tighten the nut snuggly so there is no movement.

 

[DerStig]

It's hard to tell from your photo if the guides are in the correct location. Can you get one like the second photo z2v posted? The slots in the guide should capture both sides of the ladder.

For the bolts at the bottom of the ladder, place the spacer between the ladder and post then run the bolt in either direction through ladder, spacer and post. Tighten the nut snuggly so there is no movement.

When I go home I will take better pictures but to answer your question, both up and down guides grab the ladder. The ladder is in the correct place.

Now as for that bolt, the concern I have is by tightening it snug, arent you essentially doing the same thing as the ladder touching the baseplate and bending? The entire weight of the load will now transmit to that bolt possibly stressing the ladder no?

 

[Al G]

The load on the ladders is being carried by the bolt at the top of the ladder that goes through the top plate of the post. The bolt at the bottom carries no load and only keeps the ladder in place.

 

[DerStig]

Here is a better picture. Please note the ladder is flush with the right side but not left and as the lift goes up that lean is exaggerated. Also attaching the pictures of what I think the piece that is supposed to go behind the ladder.

Regarding your point though, I think you are missing my concern here. Think about the nut and the bolt that eventually attached to the column. So what you are doing is, you are connecting the bottom of the ladder to the column itself. There is a bolt that goes through the Ladder->large spacer->column->nut. That linkage eventually creates a surface point for the weight to transfer. Do you see my point? Unless you attach them in such a way that the bolt keeps the ladder in place but it is not tight.

Edit: Attaching pictures of a brass piece which I m not really sure what they are for. It looks like its for an air line but I dont understand where they go.

 

[Al G]

Compare the guide in your photos with the other posts. It doesn't look like the ladder is in the slot of the guide. Are the other three the same? What might be happening is as the lift rises the ladder is being pushed out place so the locks don't engage.

The piece that looks like a thick washer is the spacer that holds the bottom of the ladder in the correct position away from the post.

I don't know why you think a bolt holding the bottom of the ladder to the post will carry any load. When the locks are not engaged the entire load is carried by the cables. When the locks are engaged the load is carried by the bolts at the top of the ladders through the top plates. If a bolt at the bottom of the ladder started carry the load what's carrying that load now?

 

[Z2V]

Edit: Attaching pictures of a brass piece which I m not really sure what they are for. It looks like its for an air line but I dont understand where they go.

Grease fittings for the cable sheaves

 

[bobabuee]

so you haven't added grease to any cable sheaves there is 8 places to add grease with grease gun? that were fittings go.

something is binding ladders recheck all 4 columns there is 4 guide blocks per column on the horizontal cross beams make sure ladder runs thru all 4 of them make sure they are flush with no gaps to the cross beams something is not together right with H section of lift front or rear.

how do the blocks look from bottom on all 4 columns?

 

[DerStig]

Where does these grease fittings go? I didnt add any grease I think someone here in some post said the cables are fine in day 1. I did however add grease to the sheaves in pulleys.

 

[DerStig]

I think they screw underneath the pulleys? I wish there were instructions. I did grease them by hand though the large pins. I will screw these in.

 

[bobabuee]

they screw into pins sheaves on pulleys somewhere either on cross beams or runway sheaves, the sheaves need to be lubed by a greasegun not by hand. there are eight pulleys total.

not to be a ****, you need to read installation manual it not greatest thing written but all this stuff is all in there.

 

[DerStig]

they screw into pins sheaves on pulleys somewhere either on cross beams or runway sheaves, the sheaves need to be lubed by a greasegun not by hand. there are eight pulleys total.

not to be a ****, you need to read installation manual it not greatest thing written but all this stuff is all in there.

The manual is pretty mediocre. In my manual, there is a section about inspecting cables and greasing the cables and it says it can be done with a brush/hand/etc. I also found a diagram that shows "grease port/lubrication locations". There is no way I would have thought those little pieces need to be screwed in to the pulleys. There are no instructions that explicitly state that.

This is like showing a picture of the safety ladder in a column in a diagram and not explaining that you have a jam nut, another nut, and the adjustment process.

Anyways, it is what it is. Now my understanding of the process was as follows:

- There is a separate oil you use for the cables, you need to oil the cables themselves yourself using a brush. you use a 90W gear oil for this. The highest gear I found was 85W mobil1.

- There is a grease (I bought a mobil1 wheel grease-red stuff) you squirt inside the pulleys using a grease gun.

They are two different things, grease and gear oil arent the same.

Is my understanding correct?

 

[Al G]

Also not to be a **** but right now I think grease fittings and lubrication is the least of your problems. From what you have described I think you have a serious assembly issue. I wouldn't be standing under the lift installing grease fittings and lubricating cables until those other issues were resolved.

 

[bobabuee]

screwed into ends of the sheave pulley pins then 5 to 9 pumps you will see grease squeeze out then it's enough do all eight like this you dont have lube the cables with grease or oil this only attracts dust & dirt get can of pb blaster garage door lube from lowes spray cables thats all you need.

did you find what is binding your ladder or?

on the ladders at top coulmn plate you have adjust nut on the otherside you have another nut after the ladder is in position ..not touching the base plate you lock the nut aginst top plate do this to all 4 ladders.

 

[bobabuee]

i agree with Al G you got serious issues with assembly of the lift you said you had your buddy car on it with all the problems you need to start from step 1 go through manual make sure your doing each what it tells you to do.

 

[DerStig]

Guys,

My ladders are sliding inside both of the guide holes. The lift went up and down probably 100 times now without load and 20-30 times with load. If ladders werent installed properly, I would have known. I checked the guides (top and bottom) at multiple locations. Its all fine.

The imperfect concrete however is a big problem for me. With no shims, all but one The columns move in all 4 different direction. No matter what type of shim material I used, I cannot make them stand flush/straight. This is driving me crazy.

I think its this leveling issue that is causing the ladder to move like that.

The only thing I havent had time trying is rubber shims that gradually increase in height. The metal shim plates I tried (I tried 4 different types of washers and 4 different types of metal plates) always end up having an empty pocket under the baseplate.

Adjusting the columns isnt very simple. When you face the columns from outside, both left and right columns have a slight bend inwards. Now how do you know how much to shim each column? If I make both column plum, then the distance between each column is more than what the spec calls! The corner of the baseplates on the ground with a chalk line is dead on at 110 1/4". But the tops (with no shims) is around 109". If I add shims and make them fully flat then they become 110 3/4". To make them 110 1/4" at the top i need to shim one column less than the other but how do I know how much?

You have to understand what I am dealing with here isnt the slope of the garage but the imperfections of the concrete. Standard rules of chalklines and levels dont apply. When I try plumbing all the columns then the distances become wider causing the columns to bend in all kinds of direction when the lift goes up or down.

Bolting the lift down is not a solution either, last thing you want is bolting it down and stressing the concrete because everytime the crossmember goes up or down it will try to shift the columns.

I will try and draw something on ms paint to explain better

I have no idea why ladder is doing that but I can tell you even when the lift is fully down, ladder has a tendency to lean right. I can push it left with my hand while it sits inside the guide but it goes back to right again.

 

[Al G]

Wait a minute. You've run it up and down over 100 times since the problem you reported in post 41? And never told those of us trying to help that the problem is gone? Good luck with the rest of it. I'm done.

 

[bobabuee]

got to shim the length of the plate what i mean say get piece bar stock 1 or 2 inches wide at least 1/8 thick and as long as base you just cant put on corners has to support base plate it might take 2 peices stacked on top one other to bring column plum it i easy to do if you have caster kit if not bring runways down put 2 stacked 2x4 under crossbeams then you can rock columns back and forth to get shims under base plate the columns plum then take the runway up to first or second lock check for plum adjust as necessary once columns are straight and plum then adjust for level of runways via cable bolts and then check columns again its not hard just time consuming. if you get frustrated walk away and come back to it .

why cant post pics

if lift has gone up and down 100 times i the ladder is still moving like that it is bent

after this is my last post iam done too.its not rocket science most is common sense. and reading the manual.

good luck!! iam out on this one....

 

[LX-Markham]

Adjusting the columns isnt very simple. When you face the columns from outside, both left and right columns have a slight bend inwards. Now how do you know how much to shim each column? If I make both column plum, then the distance between each column is more than what the spec calls! The corner of the baseplates on the ground with a chalk line is dead on at 110 1/4". But the tops (with no shims) is around 109". If I add shims and make them fully flat then they become 110 3/4". To make them 110 1/4" at the top i need to shim one column less than the other but how do I know how much?

They shouldn't. There should be no 'bend' to them at all if they are plumb.

What do you mean by "If I make both column plum, then the distance between each column is more than what the spec calls!". If you make all the posts plumb, then by definition they would all be parallel to each other. Each post needs to be shimmed individually.

Need pics of the shims and how you are attempting to make the posts plumb. Are you using a 4' vertical level or equivalent?

This pic obviously is for a 2-post, but I picked it to illustrate the shims.

I'd take pics of mine, but I have since grouted my baseplates and you can't see the shims anymore.

 

[DerStig]

They shouldn't. There should be no 'bend' to them at all if they are plumb.

What do you mean by "If I make both column plum, then the distance between each column is more than what the spec calls!". If you make all the posts plumb, then by definition they would all be parallel to each other. Each post needs to be shimmed individually.

Need pics of the shims and how you are attempting to make the posts plumb. Are you using a 4' vertical level or equivalent?

This pic obviously is for a 2-post, but I picked it to illustrate the shims.

I'd take pics of mine, but I have since grouted my baseplates and you can't see the shims anymore.

Well, first of all, Bendpak customer support told me not to do what you are showing me on the picture. I precisely asked them this and said "if I bolt the unit down and insert shims, the baseplate will be level but there will be a gap underneath the column". Their words were "the weight should be transferred to the baseplate not to the bolts/shims. If you just shim the edges where the bolts go in, you will be stressing the concrete/edges of the baseplate and that is not how the unit was designed. The base plates are designed so that the center of the columns on the baseplate (the 5x6) area carries majority of the weight. By shimming the corners and leaving a gap, you are transferring the entire weight to those edges". If I could do what you are saying, I would do it tomorrow.

I am working on a mspaint drawing because I think I am not doing a good job explaining.

 

[DerStig]

Wait a minute. You've run it up and down over 100 times since the problem you reported in post 41? And never told those of us trying to help that the problem is gone? Good luck with the rest of it. I'm done.

I think you are misunderstanding me, let me clarify.

I have never said the problem is gone. The problem is still here. But problem still happening does not imply that the lift isnt operational. Some of you started implying that the ladders were not catching the guides which would have meant the lift could have never worked. How can the lift work if the ladders are not in the guides? I was merely trying to point out the problem is not the guides. The lift goes up and down fine. I even changed my friend's oil. I have only noticed this problem while I was passing by that column a few days after the installation. As soon as I have noticed it I posted here. I have never said the lift isnt working. I am also not saying the problem is gone. Problem is still there. That particular ladder leans all the way to the right and pulls towards the lift. I am just stating the problem isnt the guides. The ladder leans to the right even when the entire lift is down. There is about 1/4" or more space between the ladder and the guide. Why the ladder leans to the right is I dont know. Also its pulling towards the center of the lift as the lift goes up.

 

[Z2V]

Post a good picture of the top plate where the ladder and cable attach. Like the first and third pics I posted the other night. I just wonder it the threaded rod on the ladder is welded on the ladder straight, do you have the top plate on right, do you have the lock nut on the bottom of the top plate ran up, etc? I think you can answer those questions easier with a photo than trying to understand what we might want to see.

 

[DerStig]

Posting 3 pictures:

1- Top view: This is the top down view of the baseplates where shimming is required to make them plum
2- Side view without shims: The columns lean towards each other. Corner to corner on the baseplates the measurement match to factory spec, at the top they are 1 1/4" short (which is expected)
3- Side view with shims: Posts are fully plum (no movement, wiggle while lowered). The top of the columns are 1/2" wider than factory spec.

I have redone the shims 3 times now with 2 different people. Used chalklines, tapes, levels, everything I know and triple checked everything.

 

[DerStig]

Post a good picture of the top plate where the ladder and cable attach. Like the first and third pics I posted the other night. I just wonder it the threaded rod on the ladder is welded on the ladder straight, do you have the top plate on right, do you have the lock nut on the bottom of the top plate ran up, etc? I think you can answer those questions easier with a photo than trying to understand what we might want to see.

Here you go

 

[DerStig]

I m sorry I rotate them in my computer to proper orientation but when I post here they show sideways