LX-Markham
Well-known member
#3 is correct.
I would recommend shimming, bolting, and grouting those baseplates so the posts remain plumb.
I would recommend shimming, bolting, and grouting those baseplates so the posts remain plumb.
HD9 Installation Questions
- Thread starter DerStig
- Start date
Can you explain what you mean by plumb? Doesn't plumb mean the entire surface of the baseplate (the 10x10 area) makes contact with either the floor or some shim material?
I am just afraid that if I bolt this down and as the unit goes up and down if the columns move and leans on the garage door tracks or the I beam, I have no way of moving it. Right now I can make "minor" adjustments by pushing it in either direction by a millimeter. When these movements cause a concern.
Take a look at my pictures to see the constraints I am working with.
Attachments
396_425
Active member
My last attempt.... The beginning of the instructions tell you that you need a flat surface for the feet to sit on; the instructions also tell/show you how to use a transit to calculate the distance each corner needs to be adjusted.
Sand, grind or whatever so that you have a flat surface to place the columns on, once the surfaces are flat, adjust the height of the columns with plates, etc. that are the total footprint of the column feet. It's truly simple to get a good foundation to build on and I'll bet your problems disappear. Mine and several friends of mine have similar lifts and all of them have a lot more threads exposed on top of the ladder post....
Sand, grind or whatever so that you have a flat surface to place the columns on, once the surfaces are flat, adjust the height of the columns with plates, etc. that are the total footprint of the column feet. It's truly simple to get a good foundation to build on and I'll bet your problems disappear. Mine and several friends of mine have similar lifts and all of them have a lot more threads exposed on top of the ladder post....
I'll look into sanding, I dont know what its involved.
As far shimming and instructions, I read them many times and you are stating what I know, but in practice its not very easy. I dont have an engineer's transmit (doesnt that cost a lot?), but I did use a chalk line, several levels and other equipment. Pretty much anything an average person can afford in a hardware store, I have. Its not very easy. I will keep trying.
As for the threads, I spoke to 2 people at bendpak who said not to follow the instructions about keeping an inch of thread. It's useless and causes the lift to never go all the way down and introduces clearance issues unnecessarily with low cars. To be honest, it made a tremendous difference for me, now my car clears (4.5" front clearance). I was told even a single thread showing from that nut is good enough for the cable, mine has 3-4 in 2 columns, the other columns have about 1-1/4". If I listened the manual and kept 1" threads on the high side, then on the low side, I actually run out of cable. The ladder threads are more though, probably close to an inch. My ladders have about 1/2" to 3/4" between themselves and the baseplate.
Bendpak even told me to move the big nut that keeps all 4 cables on a plate if I needed to lower the lift more to gain more clearance.
I will try with rubber shims this weekend. I think with metal shims not only things move easily but also its not possible to have a gradual fill.
Last edited:
LX-Markham
Well-known member
Wow, I thought my lift was tight. You win.
I can see now why you are concerned about lateral movement.
By plumb I mean perfectly vertical in both directions. To achieve that, you will likely have different thickness of shims under each of the corners of the baseplate. No, the baseplate will not be in full contact with the concrete. It will be resting on the corner shims. Once you bolt it down, you then use a high flowing grout to fill the gap between the baseplate and the concrete floor. This way the baseplate has full bearing, as designed.
We plumbed my posts with a 4' level. By we, I mean me and the Bendpak Installer. He was drilling the anchors, and I was following right behind plumbing the posts. Then the following week, I packed the grout under the baseplates.
I can see now why you are concerned about lateral movement.
By plumb I mean perfectly vertical in both directions. To achieve that, you will likely have different thickness of shims under each of the corners of the baseplate. No, the baseplate will not be in full contact with the concrete. It will be resting on the corner shims. Once you bolt it down, you then use a high flowing grout to fill the gap between the baseplate and the concrete floor. This way the baseplate has full bearing, as designed.
We plumbed my posts with a 4' level. By we, I mean me and the Bendpak Installer. He was drilling the anchors, and I was following right behind plumbing the posts. Then the following week, I packed the grout under the baseplates.
Last edited:
396_425
Active member
Borrow/rent a transit, the process will not take you 30 minutes and that's with setup and take down. Lowes, etc carry some real inexpensive devices for home use and that's all you need. A small electric hand grinder and a straight edge will get you four spots flat for your posts.
Thank you, I didnt know it was inexpensive as you are saying.
Do I need one of these? http://www.homedepot.com/b/Tools-Hardware-Power-Tools-Grinders-Angle-Grinders/N-5yc1vZc2fw
For concrete what should I use?
For transmit, can you recommend anything specific (maybe I ll purchase one and keep).
Actually scratch the idea about the grinder. It would have worked before installing it. Now there is no way to move this thing, simply no room (see my picture with the garage track and the I beam).
I will look into the grout idea, although I dont know how strong it will be and how to properly compress it.
I will look into the grout idea, although I dont know how strong it will be and how to properly compress it.
396_425
Active member
How about using a floor jack and jack up an end at a time for grinding purposes. There's no way "stuffing" grout in the void between the base plate and floor adds any strength integrity to your build. It may not be too late for you to call BendPak and ask them if they have an installer in your area....
racer-john
Well-known member
It sounds to me that the OP needs a visit from a knowledgeable person from Bendpack . He may even have columns that aren't welded square to the baseplates.
Ok some facts:
- There is (not kidding) 1/4" - 1/2" clearance between the bolts and my ceiling. Lifting this thing with a floor jack is not an option
- The installation quote I got from bendpak, for this unit, was $1200 (excluding transport) in my area.
2 out of the 4 baseplates are not fully square. I have witnessed the pretty poor welding during installation. That being said, even if Bendpak told me "hey send those back to us at our expense and we ll send you perfectly welded columns", I would tell them no. Taking this thing apart is not an option. I spent about 14 hours total with my friend putting this thing together and I think the lift is staying at my garage until I die (and to be honest after that I dont care what happens to it
). The garage I have is way too tight. Not only ceiling is too low (90") but those columns that connect to I beam are in the way making maneuverability of an hoist literally impossible. We have struggled a great deal with my friend during installation. We had to install the non power side runway manually with hand which wasnt a pleasant experience.
Anyways, I will make this work somehow. I'm hopeful about the the rubber shims.
I appreciate everyone's patience and help. You guys are invaluable.
- There is (not kidding) 1/4" - 1/2" clearance between the bolts and my ceiling. Lifting this thing with a floor jack is not an option
- The installation quote I got from bendpak, for this unit, was $1200 (excluding transport) in my area.
2 out of the 4 baseplates are not fully square. I have witnessed the pretty poor welding during installation. That being said, even if Bendpak told me "hey send those back to us at our expense and we ll send you perfectly welded columns", I would tell them no. Taking this thing apart is not an option. I spent about 14 hours total with my friend putting this thing together and I think the lift is staying at my garage until I die (and to be honest after that I dont care what happens to it
). The garage I have is way too tight. Not only ceiling is too low (90") but those columns that connect to I beam are in the way making maneuverability of an hoist literally impossible. We have struggled a great deal with my friend during installation. We had to install the non power side runway manually with hand which wasnt a pleasant experience.Anyways, I will make this work somehow. I'm hopeful about the the rubber shims.
I appreciate everyone's patience and help. You guys are invaluable.
Last edited:
Z2V
Well-known member
As previously mentioned, you could plumb the post with nessacary shims in the corners then seal the gap all around the base plate and the floor and pour grout into holes of the base plate to fill the void under the base plate. After the grout drys you will have a solid full contact footing under the base plate. At this point I personally would bolt it down but again that's up to you. Use a 4 ft level and insure the post are all plumb left to right and forward to back.
i didn't have a transit but I used a laser that I set in the center of the floor and rotate 360* to each post. A water level would have worked also.
With the issue you were describing about the ladder bowing out on you almost sounds like the bolt on top could be welded on crooked but I guess you resolved that.
What is the largest amount of shim under any post?
i didn't have a transit but I used a laser that I set in the center of the floor and rotate 360* to each post. A water level would have worked also.
With the issue you were describing about the ladder bowing out on you almost sounds like the bolt on top could be welded on crooked but I guess you resolved that.
What is the largest amount of shim under any post?
Z2V
Well-known member
You would be able to move it if you wanted. I would bolt it down though. I know, I need to let you alone about bolting it down. LOL
Ok before I do this hopefully one last time, plumbing a column means that each column will be vertically level on all 4 sides. So I will take a 4 feet level and vertically put it on each 4 sides (well 2 really) and make sure the bubble is right on the center, correct?
While the columns will be at different levels with respect to each other, each other will be vertically level.
While the columns will be at different levels with respect to each other, each other will be vertically level.
396_425
Active member
No I will definitely bolt it down eventually but if I cannot move the lift at all with the grout in place, thats a big no no. Are you sure the grout wont bind to the metal and keep it stuck permanently?
Grout will not chemically bind to concrete or steel, it's like a saltine cracker...
Z2V
Well-known member
you got it
racer-john
Well-known member
Hold on everyone we are missing a very important measurement.
The OP needs to make a mark on each leg of the hoist at the same level point. Then using a laser level move any legs that are not on the same level (using the low.est one as the set point). Now shim up any that are not level. Measure the gap below the plates, wedge up till level, then grout. After the grout has cured he will be able to bolt the pads to the floor. Since the pads now make full contact with the floor no tipping will occur. you got it
The OP needs to make a mark on each leg of the hoist at the same level point. Then using a laser level move any legs that are not on the same level (using the low.est one as the set point). Now shim up any that are not level. Measure the gap below the plates, wedge up till level, then grout. After the grout has cured he will be able to bolt the pads to the floor. Since the pads now make full contact with the floor no tipping will occur. you got it
I have finished leveling the columns with plates/rubber shims. They are all level now side to side in each direction. So far no movement. If this works and is stable, i wont drill it and leave it as is.
The way I have done is as follows:
- If a large area has to be lifted in the baseplate, stack those 16ga steel plates and use them
- If just edges, use the shims that came with the lift and fill in rest of the holes with the rubber shims which do what grout would have done.
I am adjusting the ladders now
The way I have done is as follows:
- If a large area has to be lifted in the baseplate, stack those 16ga steel plates and use them
- If just edges, use the shims that came with the lift and fill in rest of the holes with the rubber shims which do what grout would have done.
I am adjusting the ladders now
Getting all the posts on the same level isn't necessary. Cable and ladder adjustments accommodate any differences.
All my posts are plumb now. Two of the posts (driver side front and back) do move about 5/16" or so between fully lowered and 3rd safety lock when a car is on it. With no car, I can raise to top lock and there is no movement at all.
I have done the cable and ladder adjustments again but because the manual isnt clear (and you can tell I m not very smart), can someone help answer the following?
- I need to adjust the cables first and ladders, correct?
- To adjust the cables, I need to make sure safeties are not engaged and the lift is raised not on the ground
- To adjust the ladders, do I simply raise the lift at very small increments until the first lock catches and then lower all the other ladders one by one?
- Is there an issue with lowering/raising the ladder when the safety on that side is engaged?
Side to side my runways are level. Front to back there is a 1/4" difference. On one of the corners I raised the cable as far as it can go, I m afraid if I raise it more, I will break it. So to fix that 1/4", I would have to raise the columns with plates but I dont know if its worth the effort.
If there is a better technique to do the cable/ladder adjustment, please let me know.
Lastly, when a car is on the lift the safeties all go out of sync by a large margin. When there is no load, they are almost simultenous. What am I doing wrong? Furthermore, is it a good idea to adjust the ladders WITH the car on the lift?(probably not)
I have done the cable and ladder adjustments again but because the manual isnt clear (and you can tell I m not very smart
), can someone help answer the following?- I need to adjust the cables first and ladders, correct?
- To adjust the cables, I need to make sure safeties are not engaged and the lift is raised not on the ground
- To adjust the ladders, do I simply raise the lift at very small increments until the first lock catches and then lower all the other ladders one by one?
- Is there an issue with lowering/raising the ladder when the safety on that side is engaged?
Side to side my runways are level. Front to back there is a 1/4" difference. On one of the corners I raised the cable as far as it can go, I m afraid if I raise it more, I will break it. So to fix that 1/4", I would have to raise the columns with plates but I dont know if its worth the effort.
If there is a better technique to do the cable/ladder adjustment, please let me know.
Lastly, when a car is on the lift the safeties all go out of sync by a large margin. When there is no load, they are almost simultenous. What am I doing wrong? Furthermore, is it a good idea to adjust the ladders WITH the car on the lift?(probably not)
Last edited:
Z2V
Well-known member
Go back and reread post 23.
I leveled the ladder and cables. All locks engage simulatenously with no load. Even after my leveling there is a 1/4" slope between two ends of the lift. Side to side no slope. The reason for 1/4" slope is because on my lowest corner I ran out of cable. the threads are probably 2 1/4" out.
When I put the car on it though, the locks engage literally one after another with half a second or a second delay. I can hear all 4 of them. Is that normal? Should I adjust the lift for that so without the car its out of sync but with the car it is?
When I put the car on it though, the locks engage literally one after another with half a second or a second delay. I can hear all 4 of them. Is that normal? Should I adjust the lift for that so without the car its out of sync but with the car it is?
LX-Markham
Well-known member
A little out of sync is fine.
Z2V
Well-known member
Mine are synced loaded. I only have about four inches overtravel to play with when loaded. It needs to be synced so I don't put the roof of my car through the ceiling.
It's harder to sync loaded because of the weight on the cables so I remove car to adjust then reload to check. Repeat, repeat.
It's harder to sync loaded because of the weight on the cables so I remove car to adjust then reload to check. Repeat, repeat.
I synchronized all the ladders when my car is on but believe it or not depending how close I am to each runway, sometimes one of the locks go off with a slight delay. But its substantially better.
Anyways, spent the whole day today the good news is I dont need to drill anything. With the shims and leveling I did my columns are very stable. I went on to the ramps probably 30 times today, lift did not even move mm. The columns do sway outwards a total of 1/8" when there is a car on it but I guess thats normal and having anchors wouldnt make a difference.
The only issue now I have and I didnt before is when the lift is going up and down I get a lot of vibrations and shaking inside the columns. Its much worse when there is no load on it. I did WD40 everywhere I can see. It seems like the plastic guides are having tough time and they get "jumpy".
All the columns are plumb and when the car is on the locks, its dead on level in each direction. That being said when the car is on the cables, there is slight slope and that is a result of me synchronizing the locks so that with my car on the locks are synchronized. If I leveled the cables, then they go completely out of sync with the car on it. Between 1st and 4th lock, there is a 1.5-2s delay. Not good.
Anyways, spent the whole day today the good news is I dont need to drill anything. With the shims and leveling I did my columns are very stable. I went on to the ramps probably 30 times today, lift did not even move mm. The columns do sway outwards a total of 1/8" when there is a car on it but I guess thats normal and having anchors wouldnt make a difference.
The only issue now I have and I didnt before is when the lift is going up and down I get a lot of vibrations and shaking inside the columns. Its much worse when there is no load on it. I did WD40 everywhere I can see. It seems like the plastic guides are having tough time and they get "jumpy".
All the columns are plumb and when the car is on the locks, its dead on level in each direction. That being said when the car is on the cables, there is slight slope and that is a result of me synchronizing the locks so that with my car on the locks are synchronized. If I leveled the cables, then they go completely out of sync with the car on it. Between 1st and 4th lock, there is a 1.5-2s delay. Not good.
Last edited: