kelpaso1
MEMBER EMERITUS
Ahh I misread.
Heated Driveway
- Thread starter Coloshaver
- Start date
ripperd
Well-known member
Agreed. With solar its definitely not going to work. Except for maaayybe in the very beginning and end of winter when the air temp is basically 32 and the sun is at a better angle.
andyvh1959
Well-known member
I do wonder if using a ground geothermal system to warm the glycol heating system could work. It would have to be active at least a month before winter conditions are common. Meaning a ground geothermal system piped to a heat exchanger/pump/tank system would likely be needed to get the driveway piping circuit to a consistent 50F+.
How much money do you have?
It would take a few geothermal wells to do it, plus you are only getting 50F degree water. it will take a lot of water to do much. Pretty hard to get a surface above 32F with 50F water.
you wouldn't want to do that. you don't want to cool the ground off more than necessary. as for would it work, please see the papers I cited above.
this is just math. find out the ground-water temp, size your bores for the BTUs required, and install adequately sized pipe to handle it. there's no lifting head in a closed loop geo system, just the resistance of the pipe. a 1hp circulating pump could move a LOT (technically speaking, a metric buttload) of low-grade BTUs.
No argument from me, but I think it would be very cost prohibitive and will take more water than you realize. Figure in 125-150 BTU per square foot and see where it leads.
I just ran some numbers and I don't think it is possible! My math comes up with close to two gallons of water per hour, per square foot. Anyone care to see what numbers they come up with? I probably am wrong!
I have worked on many geothermal heat pumps in this area. In the fall the water temp out of the ground is around 50F. By spring time is is close to 32F. You need enough wells to keep the water at 50F as it isn't going to do any good when it gets colder.
2 yrs ago project. 25x85 driveway,28x60 shop, 1 heating source in basement of home.
Attachments
Any idea on the cost to operate the snow melt for the driveway?
Not really and being serious never sat and figured it out. Will do after this winter. Its 2 years old, this winter so far is much more than last year. Ng is up and its been frigid. Ill try and explain my install for saving energy.
Base is 8 inch stone, 2 inch foam and 6 inch concrete
Perimeter has vert. 2 inch foam 2ft deep, at 2 feet deep another foam board horiz. 2ft deep. Design came from a dpt of energy site. The heat source is 275k btu unit with an antifreeze. Comfort comes at a price,but 100 perc worth it
1000gph = 500sqft then. seems fine. how big is the sidewalk?
FredWanaker
Well-known member
***! Get up off it and go shovel like the last generations have. You want climate change to stop? Then stop figuring ways to spend energy keeping snow off your driveway. Use your muscles and youth to clear it. If you are too old move to a warmer climate.
back in my day, we cleared snow with a spoon, uphill both ways! eat it and melt it like the good lord intended!
What difference does it make? You add more loops and geo wells accordingly. Once you get one square foot worked out just add more components.
Your 1000 GPH is roughly 16 GPM. See an issue yet? Most tubing you might get around 1 GPM, perhaps a bit more with 3/4", say 1.5 GPM. So ten loops or more for your 500 square feet. Something like five runs of tube per square foot. So all the tubing, plus manifolds, plus plumbing. Could it work? It might, but not practical. I can't imagine shoving all that tubing into that small of area.
Again, I probably missed something!
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Easiest solution is a track drier. Maybe 10 minutes to melt and dry it all....
Interesting discussion. It is actually illegal to do this in Wisconsin utilizing fossil fuels. I owned a house for 11 years that had the garage and driveway on the North side. We were diligent about cleaning the apron and driveway after each snow and when it warmed up we used some good old-fashioned manual labor (me & the wife) to clean it off with scrapers. Depending on how tall your garage is, you should only have 30ft or so that does not get direct sun.
At some point future generations are going to look at this stuff and shake their heads. I realize that waste is everywhere, but I still try to do my part in not contributing to wasteful practices.
At some point future generations are going to look at this stuff and shake their heads. I realize that waste is everywhere, but I still try to do my part in not contributing to wasteful practices.
HoosierBuddy
Well-known member
I agree. But you preach frugality as a virtue at the risk of being flamed. This whole thread is a "First world problem", for sure.
I just got reminded of Al Gore's film "An inconvenient truth", which was followed closely by someone at the power company leaking copies of Al Gore's mansion's electric bill to the internet. He used 221,000 KWH in ONE YEAR while winning an Oscar for telling the rest of us it was time to quit using so much energy because we're ruining the planet.
So...I'm all over the "Be mindful of your energy usage" thing. But the politics of scaring people is where I get off the boat. When I was a kid, we had a river catch on fire. The smog was so thick you couldn't see the sun in some cities during the days. There was so much lead in kids that it was effecting their IQ. The DDT had killed all the eagles. We've come so far....I have to believe we'll get the CO2 thing sorted as well. AND, I promise you, I am nobody's optimist.
ScaldedDog
Well-known member
Waste - What other people do. Like the guy telling others to move to warmer climates, while he runs his AC balls out all summer. Utter nonsense.
We've become a nation of HOA busybodies.
Heat your driveway. Run your AC. Live your life. Do what you want. Extend others the same courtesy.
Mark
We've become a nation of HOA busybodies.
Heat your driveway. Run your AC. Live your life. Do what you want. Extend others the same courtesy.
Mark
Ya, it's crazy how people judge others these days.
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Or how some are judging those that are judging others.
I have heard some (with hatred in their voice/demeanor) exclaim how they hate bigots.
I don't know why they are so self loathing.
Think I learned by the time I was 4 or 5 that two wrongs don't make a right.