Hein Werner OS
- Thread starter Elroy
- Start date
Hiball. i did the bleeding already. I did the air purging , too. I wasted so much oil refilling. Could the damaged plunger assembly has something to do with it? Remember the plunger that I damaged while drilling the bottom plug ( refer to #472 thread)?
I wouldn’t think so, since it works after you manually lift the Arm. Did you flush all the valve veins to make sure none of the metal particles made there way into the system. I would probably elevate the rear of the jack and pull the valve plug and double check the components, making sure there isn’t anything blatantly wrong going on.
Hiball, I did not touch the ram assembly cuz I could not open it although i tried a lot of pounding and heat to unscrew it. I hope I did not damage anything inside like the seal or gasket?
1) flushing valve vein?, valve plug? clarify please. How do I do these?
Steve, why would the plunger not function when I was using the handle, and works when I used the wood to push it down manually? Isn't that odd?
1) flushing valve vein?, valve plug? clarify please. How do I do these?
Steve, why would the plunger not function when I was using the handle, and works when I used the wood to push it down manually? Isn't that odd?
Did you remove the valve plug that contained 2 valve balls and 2 springs? If you didn’t tear into the reservoir and verify components it could be numerous things, more than likely something restricting/preventing the lower ball from seating and allowing the oil to change direction and causing the “see-saw” effect. I have no idea why depressing the pump piston with wood works while the handle roller doesn’t, Unless your able to go deeper with the wood and due to other issues (oil restriction) you aren’t getting full cylinder on the upstroke.
Generally when you do a complete tear down, you remove all valve components and use cleaner/pressurized air to make sure the passages are clear. Hydraulic jacks tend to get nasty inside and it can cause multiple issues.
Yes, I did remove it. Here is what I will do. I will remove the cylinder from the body again. I will open all the valves except the valve on the side for weight limitatiom protection. I will remove all oil, flush all holes with new oil and dust off air cannister, and reinstall them. Is that ok? I will inspect the new plug I installed at the bottom hole. Anymore suggestion?
Hiball, one more thing, can you tell me the easiest to reinstall the 2 big springs that are hooked to the hole in the cylinder and connect to the stud on the arm? I had to muscle it with a brake spring device to get installed, whew!!
I wouldn’t remove the cylinder, just the tank nut which will release the reservoir tube.
I install springs prior to folding the hydraulic unit back up inside the frame.
Yes, I did install the spring prior to putting back the cylinder to the frame but the spring is about an inch shorter to the stud so I have to pull it with the brake spring puller so I could hook it to the stud, and boy, those springs are strong!!!
I have a home made T-handled puller with a small 90 degree hook, it makes it pretty easy.
Hello, I can’t afford the nice Facom, adjustable pin spanner wrench so I’m thinking of getting one similar to the wrench in the picture below.
Does anybody knows what size of C Spanner wrench is needed to remove the top round tank nut on the o’Boy?
Also, how are the C pin Spanners measured in case I need one for another application? TIA!
Does anybody knows what size of C Spanner wrench is needed to remove the top round tank nut on the o’Boy?
Also, how are the C pin Spanners measured in case I need one for another application? TIA!
Hello All,
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I was able to completely restore my 1974 WS. These posts were invaluable! I thought it was interesting when I looked at the serial number on mine. Generally they just provide the month and year and the jack serial number for that year. But mine is kind of unique in that I can pinpoint the day and probably the time as well. S/N 01740004
So if I read this right it was built in the morning (the 4th one to be built) of the first day of work in 1974. So that would probably be the morning of Wednesday Jan 2nd 1974( Jan 1st being a holiday). I wonder how many of them were hungover in Waukensha , WI that morning. Lol.
I want to thank everyone who contributed to this thread. I was able to completely restore my 1974 WS. These posts were invaluable! I thought it was interesting when I looked at the serial number on mine. Generally they just provide the month and year and the jack serial number for that year. But mine is kind of unique in that I can pinpoint the day and probably the time as well. S/N 01740004
So if I read this right it was built in the morning (the 4th one to be built) of the first day of work in 1974. So that would probably be the morning of Wednesday Jan 2nd 1974( Jan 1st being a holiday). I wonder how many of them were hungover in Waukensha , WI that morning. Lol.
jeffberk
Well-known member
Hi, I'm reviving an old thread to ask a couple of questions.
I'm getting a leak after rebuilding a jack that seems to be coming from the reservoir tube where it seats on the top nut. I've tried to apply more torque to the top nut without success in sealing the metal to metal joint.
I also had some issues getting the piston seal into the cylinder and may of damaged the plunger cup which in my rebuilding kit was made of a polymer as was the one originally in my jack.
If the plunger cup leaked, could that result in excess pressure in the reservoir tube causing the leak?
I'm getting a leak after rebuilding a jack that seems to be coming from the reservoir tube where it seats on the top nut. I've tried to apply more torque to the top nut without success in sealing the metal to metal joint.
I also had some issues getting the piston seal into the cylinder and may of damaged the plunger cup which in my rebuilding kit was made of a polymer as was the one originally in my jack.
If the plunger cup leaked, could that result in excess pressure in the reservoir tube causing the leak?
paulsomlo
Well-known member
Nope, wouldn't be the plunger cup. Are you sure that the leak isn't coming from around where the rod enters the top nut? If so, there's a packing nut that you can tighten. Otherwise, you may have to drain, disassemble, clean, and apply some Loctite 518 to the reservoir edges, then reassemble.
jeffberk
Well-known member
I'm going to head out to purchase the proper wrench for the packing nut but I really think the metal to metal seal is where the leak is because I saw some air seeping out of the seam with some fluid when I turned the jack over. I used an anaerobic gasket material on both ends but I think that the gasket material squeezed out by twisting the top nut. I'm wondering if I need to polish end of the reservoir tube to remove any imperfections.
paulsomlo
Well-known member
If you used anaerobic gasket material, you should be good - that's what 518 is. When I've done this, I've polished the mating surfaces. I suppose you can use some 600 grit on the reservoir and just clean up the nut and hydraulic block with some 4/0 steel wool. But don't remove too much material and take it out of round, you'll be SOL. It sounds like you know what you're doing - but where on earth are you going to head out to, to buy a spanner wrench? I can't imagine any where local to me having one in stock.
jeffberk
Well-known member
This might work but I'm not sure about the size:
Adjustable Pin Spanner Wrench
Amazing deals on this Adjustable Pin Wrench at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.
www.harborfreight.com
Summit Racing has it for less and is local for me, but is out of stock until September.
Thanks
jeffberk
Well-known member
I was planning to repaint the jack, possibly powder coat it since I have access to that equipment at a local makerspace but how do you separate the two sides? It looks like the parallel links are attached by studs at one end and a pin at the other that were welded or peened over.
Is the procedure to grind off the ends of the studs and pin to free them and then replace them on reassembly?
Is the procedure to grind off the ends of the studs and pin to free them and then replace them on reassembly?
paulsomlo
Well-known member
Peened, I believe. Look around on here for some WS rebuild threads. You can either make a new piece and peen it over again, but I think a rod with shoulders and threads is probably the way it's usually done. When I took mine apart, I didn't bother separating the two side plates, because of this.
jeffberk
Well-known member
I'm still getting some leakage from the front end of the reservoir after polishing the end smooth and using anaerobic sealant. I'm using a metal pin and hammer to tighten the nut.
Before I disassemble the reservoir yet again, I was wondering if there is anything I should try different. The idea of a metal to metal hydraulic seal, even with sealant seems less than ideal but I can try it again. Most if not all of the sealant I would think would squeeze out as the sealant is usually used to seal flat flanges together.
Has anyone tried cutting a cork/rubber gasket? The leak is only at the nut end, not the body end of the reservoir tube.
Before I disassemble the reservoir yet again, I was wondering if there is anything I should try different. The idea of a metal to metal hydraulic seal, even with sealant seems less than ideal but I can try it again. Most if not all of the sealant I would think would squeeze out as the sealant is usually used to seal flat flanges together.
Has anyone tried cutting a cork/rubber gasket? The leak is only at the nut end, not the body end of the reservoir tube.
My guess is it’s leaking around the rod on the main ram and running down giving the appearance that it’s coming from the tank nut/reservoir seal. Hydraulic oil is weird, it will leak from point A, wick it’s way to point B and have you chasing your tail.
jeffberk
Well-known member
Maybe I should put a UV dye in it. I put some plaster of Paris powder on it to isolate the leak and it looked like the reservoir tube but I could be wrong.
jeffberk
Well-known member
paulsomlo
Well-known member
I'm not sure that's going to get it tight enough - you can try getting two dowel pins in the "scallops" on the tank nut, diametrically opposed, then use a large pipe wrench to bear on them. The pins will keep you from scarring the tank to nut interface, but you will need at least a 2' pipe wrench, I use a 3 footer plus an extension.
If you've got access to a waterjet, then maybe you have access to a lathe? You could potentially make a groove in the tank nut for an oring.
Every since i started using anaerobic gasket material where metal meets metal on reservoir ends, for the life of me I can’t recall ever having a leak. I’m talking about a hundreds of jobs, What process tools did you use to tighten nut down? Or even remove it? A pipe wrench will work, but it will mar the finish unless you find some dowel that is proud enough to take the abuse as Paul mentioned earlier. I wouldn’t use a punch and hammer as you risk damaging the nut and have very little feel on how tight things actually are.
jeffberk
Well-known member
I gave up on the punch because as Hiball said, it was damaging the nut and still leaking. I cut a star wrench out of 1/4-inch steel on a waterjet at a local makerspace. It took two tries to get the size right but it may of worked. I'll let it sit overnight and check again with my UV flashlight in the morning.
Attachments
jeffberk
Well-known member
The wrench I cut out seems to have allowed me to tighten the tank nut to the point where it doesn't leak. (If anyone wants to borrow this tool after I'm done with this project, I'll lend it to you if you pay postage.)
Next problem, the jack won't hold any weight without sinking. This was the original problem that I was trying to resolve by the rebuild.
I've topped off the hydraulic fluid to where it just comes out of the fill hole when the jack is on its 4 wheels.
Any ideal what seal might be the issue?
Is it related to the release valve?
I'm able to pump it up by depressing the piston assembly (No. 39 in the model WS parts list) with the gear nut (No. 21) turned counter clockwise until it stops.
Next problem, the jack won't hold any weight without sinking. This was the original problem that I was trying to resolve by the rebuild.
I've topped off the hydraulic fluid to where it just comes out of the fill hole when the jack is on its 4 wheels.
Any ideal what seal might be the issue?
Is it related to the release valve?
I'm able to pump it up by depressing the piston assembly (No. 39 in the model WS parts list) with the gear nut (No. 21) turned counter clockwise until it stops.
paulsomlo
Well-known member
I think you got it over filled.
More like a diamond in the rough. Not bad Elroy, my first WS was pulled from a junk pile (1973) and the wheel rims, front and rear, are less than half as thick as yours. The saddle head casting was dragging the concrete (made in '47) so long the loops were ground down and the shaft was D shaped. The solid jack body is deep pitted with corrosion. The bottom nut under the pump looked like yours.Well Buck you know what they say;
You can polish a turd all day long and when you're done it's still a turd. That's exactly what this thing is. A old rusty, bent and worn out turd.
Hiball called it right off the bat.
This old thing was so worn out it should have gone in the trash. There wasn't a single part that didn't have some kind of issue. The ONLY saving grace is the fact it's a old design that is truly rebuildable. Made in an age where quality and durability were the hall marks of good equipment.
I guess you could say Elroy is just an old turd polisher.
NOTE: I know this is a reply to a 14 yr old thread, but these are 60 yr old jacks so pay attention: I now have 5 pump base plugs from kits over the years. My second jack threads (late '60s) are about .008" small and only the original plug will fit. It measures to be 3/4-20 thread. Might buy a bottoming tap to fix it. H-W did not change the threads, but something was definitely worn in their manufacturing operation. I think they just used smaller plugs to keep going. Not the way things are done today. I took one plug and coated with pure moly and tighten it in the hole, removed -added moe moly and did it again . . . and got tight each time but went farther in. One might be able to use the "new" plugs that way. I found that the copper gaskets for aircraft 18mm spark plugs will fit by opening the ID slightly. Everyone likes photos, but this should help many with this issue.
You have a fine jack there, just had to break off the crud. A little work on the hydraulic press and it will be straight.
I think the polished all the turd off this beauty.