Help a new welder get better

[z28snksknr]

So here's a pic of a weld from a welding cart project (my first project). I got a lot better by the end of the project, but this pics is pretty representative of the welds I produce. Definately a lot of room for improvement here.

Tell me what I'm doing wrong and how I can do better.

I have a Century (budget Lincoln) 80 amp flux-core unit and the wire was HF (chicago electric) flux core wire that came with it when I bought it off CL. I've since switched to Lincoln's wire, but I haven't welded with it yet. Should I expect a noticeable difference?

 

[z28snksknr]

Here's another pic showing I can do slightly better, just not consistently. I initially tacked this in about 12 spots, then connected the dots.

 

[UncleJoe]

First off I am in no way an expert. Just a hack hobby guy. What type of welding helmet are you using? I found that with a regular helmet I was not experienced enough to be able to see everything such as where the tip was and how I was starting the weld. I switched to a auto darkening and I was able to start my welds better and if the start better then they have a chance of ending better. I found I was moving too fast and not working the pool. There are some pretty good videos on you tube that will help you visualize how fast or slow you should be moving.

Practice, analyze, practice analyze practice analyze and you will get better. Remember you are trying to achieve the that magic stack of dimes look. For me the trick was to slow down and work the pool. Making small C type movements.

I am sure some real welders on here can give you better advice.

 

[ironheadtom]

Way cold. It's difficult to get much out of the cheaper small welders, especially with flux-core wire. Turn up the heat for those thicker materials and adjust the wire speed so you can get a consistent buzz when you're welding. If you know someone that's a good welder... you would be way ahead to have them come over and show you some things. I've gone to help friends learn only to find that the welder they had purchased was not capable of producing a decent bead. You may be fighting a battle you can't win with that machine. ( I think those little century welders may be more suitable to sheet-metal type projects.) Post some pics when you get it figured out!

 

[ironheadtom]

Uncle Joe has a great point. I've learned a lot of things off youtube. I haven't checked, but I bet there's some great welding lessons on there. He's also right about your hood. If you can't see what you're doing...go to a lighter lens.

 

[Zrexxer]

Man, you've got several issues here... where to start...

First: chuck the Chinese fluxcore. You didn't say what kind of Lincoln you got, but you should have a NR-211-MP wire, no larger than .030". Your machine does not have the current density to run .035" or larger, and that may be part of your problem.

Secondly, I don't know if that machine is fluxcore only - it probably is - but if not, make sure that the electrode is connected to the negative terminal of the machine output. If it's a fluxcore only machine you likely won't have the option to change it.

Third, the welds are cold, and have poor fusion. Part of this is going to be a function of the machine you're using. I know this isn't what you want to hear, but the machine you have is probably best suited as a boat anchor. There's a reason good welding machines are expensive, and a reason that cheap welding machines aren't good. Having a decent machine to work with will do so much to smooth your learning curve that it would be worth it from that perspective alone.

You really need someone who can look over your shoulder and help guide you as you're getting started. I suggest you go over to the Hobart Weld Talk forum and register there if you haven't already. There may be someone in your area that would drop by and give you a few pointers. I'd guess from the pics that you're trying to travel too quickly and not allowing the toes of the weld to wet into the parent metal. You need to watch the actual puddle as the weld forms, and see how it takes time to fill. It's a very common flaw to get distracted by the arc or the spatter, and lose focus on the puddle.

Before someone chimes in with the inevitable "Oh flux core *****, that's just how it looks" b.s., let me assure you that you CAN perform sound, good looking welds with fluxcore with good technique, a good machine, and a decent wire. I did this weld with fluxcore on a footer plate welded to an angle iron hinge jamb for a buddy's shop that we rehabbed recently; it's not perfect by any means but I use it to show that fluxcore can produce a smooth, porosity-free weld with minimal spatter. Keep practicing and good luck!

 

[z28snksknr]

I have serious difficulty seeing the weld pool and have a hard time even following where I should be going when I'm welding. I limit myself to an inch or two at a time since I tend to wander off the joint a bunch. The helmet is a cheapo $30 lincoln helmet with a #10 shade from Lowe's.

I also have a hard time getting a consistent buzz out of it. There's a lot of popping and it's very stacatto. It's got a "hi / lo" amp setting - maybe I'll try the hi. I noticed I had the speed a bit higher than the little reference table says to have it, but that seems to help me get a (slightly) more consistent buzz.

As for friends who weld, I got no one. They all call me for home / auto / other repair work and have no interest in these kinds of things. So, it's all up to you guys!!

 

[z28snksknr]

I just switched to the NR-211-MP wire, but .035. I'll order the .030 today.

I couldn't afford a better welder right now, so what I got is what I got. Maybe in a year or so I'll trade up to something more substantial.

I'm hoping to get a decent ($100 range) auto-darkening helmet in the near future. I think my biggest problem is not being able to see properly.

Thanks for the tips so far. HUGE HELP!!!

 

[Zrexxer]

OK, a couple more points as you've added more information. You can't weld if you can't see. If you don't want to invest in an autodark hood right now, go to the local welding supply and get a "gold" filter plate for your hood. Don't get anything darker than a #9. #10 is going to be like being blind with 85 amps. The gold filter will really help your visibility though.

If you don't have consistent wire feed to produce an arc, you could have any of half a dozen machine setup problems. Wire spool tension and feed roll need to be correct, the gun needs to have a good condition contact tip correctly sized for the wire you're using, and the liner must be in good condition, not kinked or plugged with metal dust from rusty wire.

Finally, make sure you're using a dedicated circuit with adequate voltage, and that you're not trying to run the machine off 100ft of 16 ga extension cord. You're working with too little power already, every place you lose some cripples you further.

Oh, and make sure with flux that you're using about a 10° - 15° drag angle with the gun.

 

[lilredex]

Think you are asking a bit much from any 110V welder, my MM135 would not even handle that job. Get a 220V machine (or a Lincoln 225 if it needs to be a economical purchase)

Zrexxer - that is a really nice looking flux core weld there....what machine??

 

[z28snksknr]

I'll keep clarifying then based on the awesome feedback:

Wire feed seems consistent - it's the arc that's not. Machine is in almost new condition, so no issues there.

I don't use any extension cords and use a 20Amp outlet directly from the wall to the welder.

I use the correct tips and change them when they get fouled up.

I'll order up the #9 shade and gold filter you mention.

 

[z28snksknr]

Think you are asking a bit much from any 110V welder, my MM135 would not even handle that job. Get a 220V machine (or a Lincoln 225 if it needs to be a economical purchase)

Zrexxer - that is a really nice looking flux core weld there....what machine??

I appreciate that my unit is very limited, but I don't expect to be doing anything "heavy" any time soon. For my limited needs, I couldn't justify a $400+ machine (to my wife anyway ), especiaslly just to learn on.

 

[lilredex]

I was just suggesting that 80 Amps ain't going to do what you are trying to do there. It looks like 1/8" sq. tubing you are trying to weld and my MM135 "might" do that at full throttle. If you look at that link I posted you will see a very similar machine to yours and it will handle sheet metal at best.

 

[Zrexxer]

Zrexxer - that is a really nice looking flux core weld there....what machine??

Thanks, that was done with a Millermatic Vintage.

However, thinking about the OP, there's an inexpensive 120V fluxcore machine on the market in the last couple of years that I've really been impressed with - the Hobart 125 "EZ".

I bought one to play around with when Tractor Supply had them for $250, and I have to say, I was blown away by what that machine can do. I didn't expect much on 120V service, but that machine exceeded all my expectations - to the point that I will grab it for many small jobs before I'll set up any of by bigger machines.

If someone is looking for a small fluxcore only 120V welder, I can't recommend the 125EZ highly enough. Hobart really got this one right. These welds below were done with the little guy:

 

[juiced10]

The photos aren't the greatest but it appears the tubing you are welding the top to has surface rust.Having a smaller machine makes it hard to overcome "dirty" metal.You need more heat and without clean contact points that will be difficult.

 

[z28snksknr]

I was just suggesting that 80 Amps ain't going to do what you are trying to do there. It looks like 1/8" sq. tubing you are trying to weld and my MM135 "might" do that at full throttle. If you look at that link I posted you will see a very similar machine to yours and it will handle sheet metal at best.

Yeah, I agree I was overshooting there, but this stuff was out of the scrap pile at the steel supplier and I paid $5 for everything I needed to make the cart. If I was actually making a selection, I would have gone with a thinner metal for sure.

 

[sberry]

especially just to learn on.

This is kind of back wards, you never know if its you or the machine. As was said, get 030, that little machine cannot choke 035 wire. The wire stick out is longer for flux core than solid and the speed is the "heat". There is probably a chart in the lid or OM about suggested settings, I would likely set the V on hi and see how much wire I could give it. Those little machines are notorious for ruining guys on welding.

 

[z28snksknr]

The photos aren't the greatest but it appears the tubing you are welding the top to has surface rust.Having a smaller machine makes it hard to overcome "dirty" metal.You need more heat and without clean contact points that will be difficult.

I did grind down the joints of rust prior to welding. I noticed it was A LOT easier once I started cleaning the metal up first.

 

[Professur]

I learned on stick, then to an italian flux only machine before stepping up the a Lincoln SP-170t. I'm not going to critique what you've done, but try to advise what to do next. First off, congrats on pulling the trigger. Getting over the fear of having molten steel inches from your hands isn't a given. Second, the machine. Yeah, it's not a Ferrari, but a Chevette can still get you to work.

You're on the right track with dumping the chinese flux core, but don't throw it away just yet. It's worth hanging on to for learning what bad wire looks like once you're more consistent. And that's where we're going first, to get consistent. Get a good 1/8 bit of plate to play with. Heavier if you've got a bit just lying about. The first job is to get to see that puddle. More importantly, to stop you looking at the arc. The arc talks to your ears, the puddle talks to your eyes. Hit the steel with a flapdisc, not just where you're going to strike, but under your ground clamp too. That's often overlooked. Set the welder to kill, drop your helmet down and pull the trigger, holding on one spot. Maybe move it a little, but you're not going anywhere just yet. Move the gun up and down listening to the difference the gap makes. Get familiar with it. Now in another spot, do it again, but this time hold the gap when it sounds best, and slow down the wire speed. Again, don't worry about looks, this is the sound dept. On a cheapo machine, wire speed and gap are your controls. After all, it's not like you need to worry about gas coverage

Now you should have to ugly globs on the plate. Let it cool some and see how it reacts. Sometimes flux core can have the flux pop off as it cools and shrinks. Chip any off that doesn't and look at the steel underneath. Are you happy with the colour? Lots of marbles, eh? You don't really get to see them much with the helmet down, but they're the biggest issue with FC welding. The right gap and speed minimize them, as does good wire. Now just grind that flat and get on with the puddle. Using the gap and speed that you were happiest with, do another stationary strike. Don't run away with it, just hold it for a few seconds, then move it a little forward and stop. Do this half a dozen times until you've gotten a good look at the puddle. You want to go slow enough that the puddle is about as broad as the thickness of the metal you're welding. Starting on thicker stuff is slow going, but you're not going to burn through. Do a few inches like this, then another row. No rushing. Then let it cool and chip the flux off and see what you've got.

 

[jon1996]

few things first

Good clean metal, wire brush and then brake clean it or acetone it( wait till it is dry)

Harbor freight hood below( I have several Jackson autos and a miller elite, but I use this one as much for mig as any, if it had grind mode it would be perfect and it is cheap
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=46092

Make sure it is negative polarity on your machine

Are you pushing or pulling the gun, You can get better penetration by pulling the gun instead of pushing it,

If you still can not see it, they make magnifying glass for helmets that could help you

crank the machine wide open and see what it does on a practice piece, then back it off until it welds good at a lower setting,

start off with about a 1/2" of wire sticking out of the gun

use antispatter for surrounding areas to keep spatter off of

really can not do much online without being there in person

But keep practicing, you will get it

 

[s_ontario]

put a chalk line on your seam/joint your welding if you can't see it

 

[z28snksknr]

awesome guys, thanks. I'll try some of these over the weekend and post my results. I think I have enough to change on the machine and with my approach to really make a difference already.

I did order a #9 gold lens and some 0.030" wire (Lincoln Innershield). I'll take it in steps and see how it all makes a difference.

Thanks again guys!

 

[z28snksknr]

Ok guys, you're gonna love this. I did nothing but change the wire and put the machine on the HI setting and here are the results:

Area to be welded:

Cleaned up the surface:

Laid down a bead - I was AMAZED at the deposition rate of this stuff. It would have taken me 30 sec to get this amount down with the other stuff. I promise i changed nothing about my technique here:

Cleaned off the flux:

 

[Zrexxer]

NOW you're getting there. There's no reason to weld that entire joint though - and the heat you're going to pour into it will end up warping the structure. Several well placed 1" welds like in your last picture will be fine for the entire side.

 

[z28snksknr]

I also noted i could see the puddle - BECAUSE THERE WAS ONE TO SEE!!! Man, that other wire ***** *** compared to this stuff!!

Just for good measure, I switched back to the LOW setting on the unit and laid another bead:

Here are the two cleaned up:

Now i know i still got a crapload of learning to do, but I'm damn proud of these results. At least I know I wasn't doing THAT much wrong. Comments please!!

 

[z28snksknr]

BTW, I guess I can add FLUX CORE WIRE to the HF Pass/Fail Thread as a big honkin FAIL, huh?

 

[sberry]

You changed wire size also, not only the brand, when you consistantly get holes in it turn up the speed a touch.

 

[z28snksknr]

You changed wire size also, not only the brand, when you consistantly get holes in it turn up the speed a touch.

This was with the 0.035" I put in a week ago but never used before today. I ordered 0.030" today and will see how that works when it comes in. I'll probably end up using the smaller wire anyway for my needs.

Thanks for the tip on the speed.

 

[ironheadtom]

Way to go Looks much better. For the record I use a #9 and have been for over 20 years. I guess I'm just too darn old to get comfortable with the auto darkening helmets. Although most people I know love them.

 

[z28snksknr]

Here are some other shots. I had some 1/4" pieces lying around so I thought I would see how my machine held up to the thick stuff.

Here's the results - had it on the HI setting, same wire speed as before. I noticed a lot of slag here - what causes that? How can I diminish it?:

How do these look as far as thickness, profile, etc for this type of joint?

 

[z28snksknr]

I went over most of my previous welds now that I can actually produce some reasonably good results. Here's the semi-finished product.

Still needs some cleanup and I need to source some casters for it:

Here it is all equipped and purposed:

I plan on setting it at a height that still fits under my workbench so it doesn't take up floorspace. It may be a bit low, but it's a small price to pay to preserve my limited walking area.

 

[z28snksknr]

Oh, and I plan on trimming the angle back flush with the back of the tubing, so don't flame me for having one longer than the other - work in progress here.

 

[sicklyscott]

How do you get that "stack of dimes" look to the welds? I was in the same position as the OP, ended up with the suggested Hobart and switched over to gas. I can lay a bead but it looks more like a slug.

 

[p_mori7]

the 'stack of dimes' is all in your wrist. you gotta 'work' the rod (or tip) fore & aft of the seam you are welding. you can also incorporate 'small' circles.

spatter on the heavier stuff is due to lack of penetration. a 220v machine would have done a better job on material 1/4" thick IMHO (hotter).

overall, nice welds for a newbie !

 

[jhn9840]

Welds are looking a lot better. Practise makes perfect in welding. Cart looks very good to.

jhn9840
John

 

[crewchief888]

the cleaner your steel is the better your welds will look.
i use 24 grit disks or flap wheel to clean everything before welding, and use a wire wheel to clean off the slag.

dont buy your wire from HF or menards, ive been using lincoln innershield wire i get from HD or lowes. HD is usually $5 cheaper on 10# spools than lowes,
but after this morning standing in line for 5 minutes at a malfunctioning self checkout lane and being ignored by 3 other cashiers, i wont be going to that HD anymore.

if you decide to go with an autodarkening hood, i recently replaced my old autodarkening hood with a new Miller pro-hobby from cyberweld.com for $137 delivered.

keep practicing

 

[ZRX61]

Great welding forum here btw:
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/

 

[Coupe302]

Looks like you are getting the hang of it. Here is some the stuff we do, it's mainly 1/8" or thicker metal:

This is all we use

There is more pics on our website: http://www.asoliswelding.com/page3.html

 

[tcianci]

Congrats for your progress! I have an old Century 110V model and went directly to the gas shielding when I first bought it. I did a few welds with the flux-core wire they supplied with the unit but the MIG process was much better. I agree with what everyone is saying about cheap machines and once I was discussing my welding prowess with a Miller rep. He came to the conclusion that most of my welding troubles were "pilot error" and not the machines fault. I have gotten much better with that machine and I agree he was right. I recently bought 2 Lincoln MIG units, a 110 and a 220V model. I just used the old Century to weld up a cart for the 220V Lincoln, not perfect but some of my better work from this machine. One thing that really improved my results were an #8 or #9 filter (I can't remember which) and a cheater lens in the helmet. At least now I can see where the bead is going! I did a post about the new welding cart in this fabrication section so you can see the new cart. I have the helmet with the low number filter clearly marked "MIG ONLY" cause if I used it with the stick machine I would probably go blind!

 

[sberry]

Coupe does a nice job, are you running from the door charts? I like to run for 1 size thicker, mainly so I don't have to work so hard, I like to make the machine do the work. Almost no gun manipulation.