Help adding stick walls to a steel building

[Paladin306]

While health issues have caused me to be delayed, I think (hope) I'm about to the point where I can start adding 2 x 4 studded (stick) walls to the interior side of my steel buildings exterior walls. I've read every thread on these boards that I can find as I really know very little about framing.

Sooo, I still have at least one question on doing so properly. The height of my north wall is 15'9" and the south wall is 12'3". For some reason I was thinking of making a bottom row about 8' or 9' tall and then "stacking" a second story for lack of a better word on top of the lower level by nailing the bottom sill board of the top layer onto the header board of the bottom "story". All of the studs would be attached to metal studs and the girts in the ceiling. I guess mainly I was thinking it the wood frames would be easier to move around install, (until I started the top level, of course).

But, the more I think about it this sounds rather ridiculous. Should I just use the appropriate size studs to go all the way up?

Thanks in advance, all suggestions welcome.

You can see my 40 x 60 shop that I'm renovating here: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=256595

Mark

 

[bmxdad]

Why are you building the wall out? Are you adding a lower ceiling?

 

[Cyberbear]

A wall on top of another wall is weaker and requires more labor. If this is a DIY project then simply build the wall(s) in place one piece at a time. If you have help you can prefab wall sections and tilt them into place, and nail them together as you go. There is no particular magic with stud walls, just use good sense and remember to place the vertical studs at 16" on center and some horizontal bracing (fire blocks) for added strength. If you plan to cover the wall with sheetrock, all the better.

 

[Playwme]

A wall on top of another wall is weaker and requires more labor. If this is a DIY project then simply build the wall(s) in place one piece at a time. If you have help you can prefab wall sections and tilt them into place, and nail them together as you go. There is no particular magic with stud walls, just use good sense and remember to place the vertical studs at 16" on center and some horizontal bracing (fire blocks) for added strength. If you plan to cover the wall with sheetrock, all the better.

What he says.
If you have to do it in smaller pieces for easier handling then make them full height and half width of the wall. It'll be a lot stronger.

 

[jgorm]

What is the purpose of the walls?

 

[astroracer]

Probably adding the walls for insulation and drywall? Building them between the metal posts of the original building? If so, 24" on center will be plenty, they are not holding anything up but insulation and drywall.
i would put down a pressure treated sill plate and just use the rquired length of 2 x 4 to build each stud in place. A few self drilling #12 or 14 screws should hold the kingposts (for lack of knowledge on the actual terminology) to the sides of the existing metal posts just fine. Fire blocking, cut to length, will set the spacing. Stagger the blocking every 2' and you will have a stout wall.

If you consider mounting cabinets on the wall, the blocking can be placed at the correct height to carry the cabinets also.
Mark

 

[Zeke]

No, he's already insulated.

I'd build the walls full height. I know why you'd rather do otherwise with the back surgery. You want to take it easy and you should. One stick at a time is the easiest, but climbing up to nail off the top for each makes for a long day.

Let's figure out a way for you to put down your PT sill, get a couple studs upright, set a section of top plate and use some kind of pocket bracket so you can slip the studs up into the plate and nail off a bunch at a time. Install the brackets on the ground at your centers.

I'd get a small rolling scaffold for this project. They make great lumber carts later on. It only needs to be 6' tall at the most.

 

[Paladin306]

Why are you building the wall out? Are you adding a lower ceiling?

What is the purpose of the walls?

Wow, first off thanks for all the great responses.

I'm adding the walls for primarily for three reasons. I'm at a time in my life when I am blessed enough to be able to afford it and I don't think we'll be moving from here. Period. So, this is my dream shop.

First to add a ton of wall space to be able to hang items, cabinets, tools, (such as long clamps), Dust Gorilla (dust collector) which probably weighs close to 300 lbs and anything else that comes to mind.

Second, aesthetics. I like the look of the southern yellow pine that I replaced the pegboard around the "office" area with, (see my build thread for the photos).

Third, the building already has fiberglass insulation all the way around but, as I'm adding the walls anyway I might as well add some cellulose insulation as well. Cellulose should increase the R-Factor significantly and should round out my attempt at making it warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

Mark

 

[LXCam]

Mark, forgo that wood frame idea and go to metal stud in 12 gauge. Once you pin your base track an screw off the top plate, you can take your sweet time placing the remainder of the studs and they are very easy to handle since your health is a problem. The best part is as long as you install them plumb, everything else will be pin straight. Where you intend to install cabinets or whatever, just purchase extra track, notch for the studs and screw them off horizontally. You can also use wood backing within the web where you plan on really supporting something very heavy.

What did you plan on using for a covering, wood, drywall or metal?

Cam

 

[Paladin306]

A wall on top of another wall is weaker and requires more labor. If this is a DIY project then simply build the wall(s) in place one piece at a time. If you have help you can prefab wall sections and tilt them into place, and nail them together as you go. There is no particular magic with stud walls, just use good sense and remember to place the vertical studs at 16" on center and some horizontal bracing (fire blocks) for added strength. If you plan to cover the wall with sheetrock, all the better.

What he says.
If you have to do it in smaller pieces for easier handling then make them full height and half width of the wall. It'll be a lot stronger.

Thanks guys, you certainly have kept me from making a potentially costly mistake!!!

Probably adding the walls for insulation and drywall? Building them between the metal posts of the original building? If so, 24" on center will be plenty, they are not holding anything up but insulation and drywall.
i would put down a pressure treated sill plate and just use the rquired length of 2 x 4 to build each stud in place. A few self drilling #12 or 14 screws should hold the kingposts (for lack of knowledge on the actual terminology) to the sides of the existing metal posts just fine. Fire blocking, cut to length, will set the spacing. Stagger the blocking every 2' and you will have a stout wall.

If you consider mounting cabinets on the wall, the blocking can be placed at the correct height to carry the cabinets also.
Mark

Thanks Mark! As I stated in my previous posts these will actually be "working walls" so I'll go with the 16" on centers and I'll make sure their attached very well as that Dust Gorilla weighs about as much as a real one! I've already purchased a Hilti PAT for the bottom sill plates and will use the self drilling screws as well. I'll certainly be using the pretreated bottom sill plate idea and, as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

No, he's already insulated.

I'd build the walls full height. I know why you'd rather do otherwise with the back surgery. You want to take it easy and you should. One stick at a time is the easiest, but climbing up to nail off the top for each makes for a long day.

Let's figure out a way for you to put down your PT sill, get a couple studs upright, set a section of top plate and use some kind of pocket bracket so you can slip the studs up into the plate and nail off a bunch at a time. Install the brackets on the ground at your centers.

I'd get a small rolling scaffold for this project. They make great lumber carts later on. It only needs to be 6' tall at the most.

Thanks Zeke! The back is actually doing really well right now, (although I don't plan on doing anything stupid that will cause problems again. ) But, I had to have a couple of arterial stents put in a couple of weeks ago and am currently relegated to "light duty" until the latter half of this month. So, since we're still unpacking especially in the shop I've been doing the extremely exciting task of sorting thru a couple of thousand loose bolts, nuts, washers, flat and pan head screws etc. and finding a home for each. I'm just about done with this task and will now be able to find just about any kind of hardware item on a moments notice.

I also like your bracket idea and will definitely give it some consideration. I might build the first one as a full wall just to see how heavy it's going to be and then go from there.

As for the scaffold, 6' will only give me a working reach of around 13'. Shouldn't the header board also be attached to the roof girts, especially for the dust collector wall?

I'd thought about buying a used, small man lift or aerial lift but, haven't actually found one yet so that may be a pipe dream. But, at a minimum I might rent one.

Thanks all, you guys are great!

Mark

 

[Paladin306]

Mark, forgo that wood frame idea and go to metal stud in 12 gauge. Once you pin your base track an screw off the top plate, you can take your sweet time placing the remainder of the studs and they are very easy to handle since your health is a problem. The best part is as long as you install them plumb, everything else will be pin straight. Where you intend to install cabinets or whatever, just purchase extra track, notch for the studs and screw them off horizontally. You can also use wood backing within the web where you plan on really supporting something very heavy.

What did you plan on using for a covering, wood, drywall or metal?

Cam

Thanks for the response Cam! First and foremost I appreciate the fact that you took the time to respond especially with an idea that for me at least, is a little outside the box. I'll be using the same tongue and groove southern pine that I replaced the pegboard around the office area with which you can see in this photo:

View media item 47431
I'm hesitant to use metal studs because I think I have a pretty good picture of stick walls I know even less about metal studs. And, while it's easy to use a 16 gauge nail gun to blind nail the siding through the base of the tongue onto stick walls I can't see how that would work with metal studs.

Mark