Help finding a high tech 48 volt AGM charger

[okrobie]

Hi y'all, I recently purchased an electric scooter which came equipped with 4 brand new 12v 18AH AGM batteries. This was a most pleasent surprize since I was expecting SLA batteries.

I know that AGM's are kind of fussy about how they are charged for long life. There are some great chargers out there like Nalco That are all designed for the needs of AGM's but they all come in 12 volt models. (Nalco does make a 48 volt model but it is almost $500, which wouldn't make sense since that is double the cost of a new set of AGM's). Optima is an AGM manufacturer, but their chargers are all 12 volt.

I'm looking for a charger in this class for less than $200. Ive searched the web, including Amazon, eBay without success.

Has anyone seen a charger like I'm looking for?

 

[bwringer]

Um... the scooter didn't come with a charger?

 

[cvairwerks]

You sure it requires 48 volts and isn’t running them in parallel?

 

[nadogail]

I have a 12 volt charger that I bought from Harbor Freight. It has a switch position for AGM batteries.
You could charge your 4 12 volt batteries individually.
A scooter salvage yard will be a place to look for the 48 volt charger.

 

[okrobie]

Bwringer, the scooter was “new old stock” which I bought from a dealer. The original batteries were SLA, but the dealer put new batteries in it before he shipped which were AGM, but he didn’t provide an AGM charger, so I’m stuck with the OEM
charger (SLA style). I’m not complaining because he didn’t have to install AGM’s. But, if you I continue to use the OEM charger, it will shorten the life of the batteries. I’m willing to buy an expensive AGM charger, but my budget is not infinite.

Cvairwerks, I’m quite sure it’s 48v. Thanks

 

[okrobie]

nadogail, charging the batteries individually unfortunately impractical because of the covering on the battery compartment.

AGM batteries are fairly new on the market, so I think it will be a while before the chargers make it to the scrap yard.

Thanks for thinking about the problem.

 

[dcg9381]

Has anyone seen a charger like I'm looking for?

You may look in the solar industry. Charging AGM in 48v configurations is not unusual.

Here's one for 48v AGM for under $200:

TP-BC48-600 - Tycon Systems Inc

48V 600W Battery Charger

www.tyconsystems.com

Another suggestion is to knock it down to 24V and use 24V battery chargers... Just my little "multi-charger" that I have for RC stuff will do 24v and a variety of battery types. Yes, you'd have two plugs on the scooter.


When I've done 36v scooters, I like to setup to charge the individual batteries individually. Sure, that takes longer, bit it provides better "balance" and it's really not that hard to to slap some 12V charge connectors on there.

 

[Hearse85Caddy]

Check out the Delta-Q IC series chargers. They are very flexible concerning voltage and battery style.

IC Series Industrial Battery Chargers | Delta-Q Technologies

The IC Series are compact, flexible, user-friendly industrial chargers that optimally charge lead-acid (wet, AGM, gel) and lithium battery packs to provide the best performance for the intended application.

delta-q.com

 

[Captain Spaulding]

Double post

 

[Captain Spaulding]

AGM batteries aren’t that complicated to charge. The difference is mostly in limiting the maximum voltage. Most AGMs don’t want to see more than about 14.6 or 14.7V for a 12V battery. A conventional lead acid battery will charge at those voltages, so in the last 20 years or so, most chargers have just been designed to operate at a safe voltage for AGMs. If your charger has a float mode, that voltage may be different or the same. Find out what your particular batteries need and what your charger does.

 

[Mandres]

AGM batteries aren’t that complicated to charge. The difference is mostly in limiting the maximum voltage. Most AGMs don’t want to see more than about 14.6 or 14.7V for a 12V battery. A conventional lead acid battery will charge at those voltages, so in the last 20 years or so, most chargers have just been designed to operate at a safe voltage for AGMs. If your charger has a float mode, that voltage may be different or the same. Find out what your particular batteries need and what your charger does.

Agreed, most sla chargers should be fine for AGM batteries. It's a good idea to dig into the datasheet for your particular items to look for any red flags, but I doubt you'll have issues. That's probably why you're having a hard time finding AGM-specific chargers. Lithium batteries are the ones that need special constant voltage/constant current charging controls.

 

[blue-5]

Battery tender has a 48 volt model. Its not fast but top notch

 

[walta]

Seems to me you need to rethink risk versus reward on this project.

Batteries are energy storage containers that tend to explode and catch fire when charged improperly. In my mind whatever discount, you got buying this unauthorized mismatched pile of parts is not worth the risk of injury to your loved ones and the chance it could burn your home to the ground.

It also seems unlikely you are persuasible. I think the smart move would be to charge the batteries individually with 4 chargers and 4 connectors.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00068XCQU/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Walta

 

[Firebrick43]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FYS6CL8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

and then one of these for each battery so its a very quick hook up to the charger and you don't have to hook alligator clips up to each battery every time.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004LWWNLC/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Jsf721]

Call Grayco products in NJ. Ask for Nancy. She’s great. They are also called spraymar

If she does not have call gofer parts.

 

[Metal-Marc]

Call Grayco products in NJ. Ask for Nancy. She’s great. They are also called spraymar

Yes, talk to Nancy. Tell her some anonymus dude on the internet is talking about her. It won't creep her out, she'll love it.

 

[okrobie]

Here's one for 48v AGM for under $200:

TP-BC48-600 - Tycon Systems Inc

48V 600W Battery Charger

www.tyconsystems.com

Here's what the Users manual says:


Seems like everyone is trying to claim that their charger is great for AGM's
This company is behind on updating the owners manual to conform to the headllnes.

 

[dogdog]

I always though AGM is a type of lead acid battery.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FRQQKAK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[okrobie]

Walta

I'm almost 81 years old. I didn't get this age by being stupid. Thanks for your input.

 

[Sumboodie]

nadogail, charging the batteries individually unfortunately impractical because of the covering on the battery compartment.

AGM batteries are fairly new on the market, so I think it will be a while before the chargers make it to the scrap yard.

Thanks for thinking about the problem.

48v chargers online for under $75. Some in the Amazon for $50ish.

 

[Captain Spaulding]

I always though AGM is a type of lead acid battery.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FRQQKAK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It is

 

[kinglake]

AGM is a type of SLA battery. They are not two different things. Use the charger that came with the scooter, it is 100% fine. I am not sure if you are confusing lithium batteries and AGM, but you don't need anything special for AGM. Any modern charger, particularly for a scooter than came with SLA batteries to begin with, is more than sufficient.

 

[dcg9381]

Here's what the Users manual says:
Seems like everyone is trying to claim that their charger is great for AGM's
This company is behind on updating the owners manual to conform to the headllnes.

Thanks. I think the chemistry is the same between both, but I also question the manual VS headline. What would do it for me is recommended charge settings from the battery manufacturer and comparing those to the charger.

 

[kinglake]

Thanks. I think the chemistry is the same between both, but I also question the manual VS headline. What would do it for me is recommended charge settings from the battery manufacturer and comparing those to the charger.

AGM is a lead acid battery. The warning in the manual is so that people don't use it for a lithium battery. Manual is 100% correct.

 

[dogdog]

It is

Trying to tell the op he might be over thinking it. I am guessing he wanted a specific functions that spells out charging agm specific battery. The manual is probably spelling it out for some one that is using that charger on Li-ion.

 

[dcg9381]

In the OPs defense (and in perhaps my own) I have charge controllers that differentiate flooded lead acid and AGM.

 

[okrobie]

Here is an article I read on the web: Please read.

AGM batteries – NEVER USE CONVENTIONAL CHARGERS!​

Using a conventional battery charger on an AGM battery could cause severe damage to the electrolytes and premature failure to the battery. Conventional chargers also have the potential to cause an AGM battery to literally explode – a hazard that we never (ever) want to expose to our technicians.

The above is an excerpt of an article. Here is a link to the entire article: https://ccar-greenlink.org/agm-batt... battery charger,to expose to our technicians.

 

[Jsf721]

AGM sealed batteries definitely charge using a different algorithm. When we change out wet batteries for sealed AGM batteries we need to re program the charger or replace it to match the battery type.

 

[okrobie]

Thank you jsf721. That's what I'm talkiing about.

Still looking for a good (not just a lead acid one that's been re-labled) AGM charger that won't break the bank. (maybe I shouldn't be talking about break the bank. Might cause a virtual run.)

 

[kinglake]

Here is an article I read on the web: Please read.

AGM batteries – NEVER USE CONVENTIONAL CHARGERS!​

Using a conventional battery charger on an AGM battery could cause severe damage to the electrolytes and premature failure to the battery. Conventional chargers also have the potential to cause an AGM battery to literally explode – a hazard that we never (ever) want to expose to our technicians.

The above is an excerpt of an article. Here is a link to the entire article: https://ccar-greenlink.org/agm-batteries-never-use-conventional-chargers/#:~:text=Using a conventional battery charger,to expose to our technicians.

Article is over 10 years old. As stated by many on this thread, charger technology has changed and any modern lead acid charger will charge an AGM just fine.

 

[kinglake]

AGM sealed batteries definitely charge using a different algorithm. When we change out wet batteries for sealed AGM batteries we need to re program the charger or replace it to match the battery type.

There is not really a different algorithm to charging AGM vs lead acid batteries (yes, marketing material will say it does though). Some AGM, normally labeled AGM+, can handle much faster/higher charging rates than a normal flooded lead acid battery. These batteries are not common and certainly not in the size a scooter would use.

An AGM has a max charge voltage of 14.8v. Older lead acid chargers typically charged at 14.4v. Modern charges now use 14.6v so they are universal. Do note that any of these 3 voltages will fully charge both AGM and Flooded batteries fully, only difference being how long it takes.

You can certainly purchase a new charger that comes with an "AGM" setting. It will most likely just be a marketing ploy and charge no differently, but if anything, it will just up the voltage to 14.8v.

Your money, spend it however you want.

 

[Jsf721]

There is not really a different algorithm to charging AGM vs lead acid batteries (yes, marketing material will say it does though). Some AGM, normally labeled AGM+, can handle much faster/higher charging rates than a normal flooded lead acid battery. These batteries are not common and certainly not in the size a scooter would use.

An AGM has a max charge voltage of 14.8v. Older lead acid chargers typically charged at 14.4v. Modern charges now use 14.6v so they are universal. Do note that any of these 3 voltages will fully charge both AGM and Flooded batteries fully, only difference being how long it takes.

You can certainly purchase a new charger that comes with an "AGM" setting. It will most likely just be a marketing ploy and charge no differently, but if anything, it will just up the voltage to 14.8v.

Your money, spend it however you want.

I am not that up on the tech specs, but I have factory trained mechanics for the Jan San Equipment we service, and there are on board chargers on these machines and if a customer replaces AGM for Flooded we need to change the charger settings with a laptop or by using a series of button pushes. I don't know what the difference is but we are told that NOT making the change can damage the battereis.

 

[okrobie]

I found one. Its not as much amperage as I wanted but it's designed for AGM so it will do as I look for one with at least 10 amp capacity.
48v AGM Charger

Thanks for all the help. Great discussion, just as I have come to love on Garage Journal.

 

[kinglake]

I found one. Its not as much amperage as I wanted but it's designed for AGM so it will do as I look for one with at least 10 amp capacity.
48v AGM Charger

Thanks for all the help. Great discussion, just as I have come to love on Garage Journal.

My last post, not trying to be argumentative, but look at the second picture in that listing. It clearly is just a lead acid charger. It will work fine, but no differently than the charger your scooter came with. The AGM in the title is just marketing.

On a related note, not sure what type of scooter you purchased, but they often have the charge controller built in. The actual "charger" they come with is just a AC to DC converter. Please double yours before using something other than what came with it.

 

[Moss]

I agree with those saying just use the charger it came with. If you are really curious stick a volt meter on it and watch the entire charge process and make sure it's not over charging. My guess is you will find the charging parameters just fine.

 

[okrobie]

Hi kinglake and moss, thanks for calling my attention to the photo. I have already cancelled that order. I JOI guess you need to know that about 10 years ago I had a similar Chinese scooter with just a different badge. Naturally it had SLA’s. Well, I fried the hell out of those batteries in short order by using an improvised redneck charger. So I’m just doing everything in my power to not let that happen again. I appreciate all the support and encouragement that I’m getting from this forum. Thanks, Jim

 

[niget2002]

I mean... if you really want to make sure you do it right

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FRQQKAK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[okrobie]

I mean... if you really want to make sure you do it right

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01FRQQKAK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Thanks. I know that you said that with tounge in cheek. The irony is that the cost of that charger is more than the cost of the scooter batteries and all.

 

[Moss]

Maybe it would be a good idea for you to share the charger that the scooter came with and if there are any charge controllers on the scooter itself. To my knowledge the worst thing for any lead acid battery is to be depleted too low under 12v is bad. If the scooter let's them just keep depleting that's probably worse than anything charger would be.

 

[okrobie]

Thanks Moss, no, the batteries in the scooter are running barefoot. There is no BMS or charge controller of any kind.