Help ID Long C Craftsman 3/8 Drive Set

[Joe Huld]

I'm not a Craftsman collector but I just had to buy this unusual 3/8 drive set this morning. The ratchet is the clutch style that does not "click" . The ratchet works positively in both directions. All of the tools except for the 9/16, 1/2, and 7/16 sockets which are replacements are marked with a long "C" Craftsman trademark and "Vanadium". Apparently the set originally included Craftsman "Tiny Tools" (ignition wrenches?) per the card but they have gone missing. Any ideas on the age and maker of this set??

 

[Oldtuleguy]

1930s. Very rare. You should buy it! Probably worth 600 or so.

 

[Rileysan]

Very rare and highly sought after mid-1930s Craftsman socket set. I think there's still debate on who made it (Hinsdale sockets and Blackhawk ratchet?) but it's easily worth what OTG said. In fact, it's in such amazing condition, it could very well sell for much more. You have a true gem. Congrats and no matter what you paid, you ****!

Brian

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I'm not a Craftsman collector but I just had to buy this unusual 3/8 drive set this morning.

Nice find, Joe. 3baygarage has the same set, but not with that amazing ignition "Tiny Tools" card inside. I'm a sucker for life-size outlines. The vintage Army loved them. Duro-Indestso used them, too. But I didn't know Craftsman did. I've never seen that card before.

Hinsdale sockets and Blackhawk ratchet?

That's the take I agree with.

 

[Rileysan]

Any chance you'd be willing to photograph that brochure? As far as I know, it's never been seen and the catalogs have never shown this set. I'd love to see that inventory list.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

It's kind of neat the way the swing arm on the speeder handle fits perfectly right on that yellow blocky separator. That, and the fact that the tools are actual-size silhouettes, sure does seem to suggest that they came with the set. Maybe someone with access to 30's catalog could look into that for the rest of us.

 

[Rileysan]

It's kind of neat the way the swing arm on the speeder handle fits perfectly right on that yellow blocky separator. That, and the fact that the tools are actual-size silhouettes, sure does seem to suggest that they came with the set. Maybe someone with access to 30's catalog could look into that for the rest of us.

This set has never been found in any of the available catalogs, and I, like many others here, have a copy of David Maher's digital catalog library on DVD. If it is shown in an advertisement, it has yet to be found. That's also a good reason why I'm excited to see what's in that brochure

 

[Smokeshow69]

This set is what many a craftsman collectors dreams are made of! I can guarantee you that OTG and rileysan and many others will be dreaming of this tonight! When you are able, please post this set in the craftsman long c thread. We were just discussing this very type of set in the past few days! That is an amazing find and you are very luck to have found it! Are you also a member of the craftsman collector group on Facebook ?

Show your "Long C" Craftsman!
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=376433



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[Private Lugnutz]

This set has never been found in any of the available catalogs,

By "this set" I'm assuming you're referring to the 3/8-drive socket set.

What you're calling a brochure (looks to be just a single one-ply sheet or "card" as Joe called it) seems to be expressly for the ignition tools. It looks to be the four wrenches (13/16" through 11/32"), the midget screwdriver, and the 4-1/2" ignition plier from the later 10-piece ignition set 9 PC 4452.

Was that 10-pc ignition set listed in mid-1930's catalogs? Were those particular tools offered as a smaller ignition set? Were any ignition tools ever included with any 3/8-inch drive socket set in the mid-1930's as a sort of combination set? Those are the kinds of things I would be looking at if I had access to Craftsman catalogs.

One thought is they just stuck the card in there like a flyer to advertise those "Tiny Tools" to the 3/8-inch drive set buyers.

Another thought - again, prompted, for me, by the real-size silhouettes and the way it seems to be designed in shape and graphics for the speeder swing handle to fit on it, is that the tools were actually included, at least at one time, perhaps for a special offer, with the 3/8-inch drive set.

 

[bmwrd0]

The card is upside down, and when righted, it doesn't match the speeder profile. It also doesn't fit the space correctly, as it isn't long enough. I would guess that the original owner slipped the card in after purchase.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Yes the card ruins it. Send it all to me and I will dispose of it!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Yes the card ruins it. Send it all to me and I will dispose of it!

You don’t need any more of these[emoji23] you are getting a monopoly on the known number of sets [emoji23]


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[Smokeshow69]

The card is upside down, and when righted, it doesn't match the speeder profile. It also doesn't fit the space correctly, as it isn't long enough. I would guess that the original owner slipped the card in after purchase.

I agree. The size of the card makes me wonder unless someone cut it down? You can see the wire on the card where the tools were attached via twisting the wire. It is interesting that just yesterday we were talking on the long c thread about how few cardboard advertising pieces had survived and then this pops up


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[Rileysan]

By "this set" I'm assuming you're referring to the 3/8-drive socket set.

What you're calling a brochure (looks to be just a single one-ply sheet or "card" as Joe called it) seems to be expressly for the ignition tools. It looks to be the four wrenches (13/16" through 11/32"), the midget screwdriver, and the 4-1/2" ignition plier from the later 10-piece ignition set 9 PC 4452.

Was that 10-pc ignition set listed in mid-1930's catalogs? Were those particular tools offered as a smaller ignition set? Were any ignition tools ever included with any 3/8-inch drive socket set in the mid-1930's as a sort of combination set? Those are the kinds of things I would be looking at if I had access to Craftsman catalogs.

One thought is they just stuck the card in there like a flyer to advertise those "Tiny Tools" to the 3/8-inch drive set buyers.

Another thought - again, prompted, for me, by the real-size silhouettes and the way it seems to be designed in shape and graphics for the speeder swing handle to fit on it, is that the tools were actually included, at least at one time, perhaps for a special offer, with the 3/8-inch drive set.

That's my mistake about the card. I'm trying to see details of the post on my little phone and I just assumed it was a fold-out advertisement. If I were to guess, which I am wont to do, I would think that the 1936 Golden Jubilee tool sets may have included an ignition wrench set, but no other year.

I'll have to wait until I get home to check the catalogs for more information on the ignition set. The written details and illustration are so scant in the pre-1939 catalogs, it's amazing anything can be identified with any certainty; Individual socket sizes, for instance, are not included in most descriptions.

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks, Brian.

Upside down, schmupside down. If that was my set, I know what I would do. I'd be finding the wrenches, screwdriver, and pliers, and I would put them right over their silhouettes and display them just like that!

 

[Smokeshow69]

Thanks, Brian.

Upside down, schmupside down. If that was my set, I know what I would do. I'd be finding the wrenches, screwdriver, and pliers, and I would put them right over their silhouettes and display them just like that!

Are you saying that card would be displayed with pride in the lugzonian?


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[JoCoSawdust]

Wow! So much for my emotional high over the boxed wrench set I just added. That set is truly fantastic! Whether that card is original to the set or not, it's an extremely unique piece of Craftsman artwork. I'm with whoever said they'd start tracking down those ignition tools!
This clip is from the 36 Golden Jubilee catalog.

Congrats Joe! That's a great find and you just made every Craftsman collector in the world extremely jealous, including me!!

 

[JoCoSawdust]

Brian, I don't recall the size/profile of that "Insolen" screwdriver you found a while back. Any chance that it's about this size? Didn't we pin that down to the early 30s?

 

[Rileysan]

Brian, I don't recall the size/profile of that "Insolen" screwdriver you found a while back. Any chance that it's about this size? Didn't we pin that down to the early 30s?

If by "about this size" you mean the one featured in the boxed ignition wrench set, then no. The Insolen screwdriver I have has a 1/4" blade and is roughly 6-7" long. I think it's featured in the 1935 catalog

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Are you saying that card would be displayed with pride in the lugzonian?

I'm saying I would leave the card in the box and display the 'tiny tools' in their respective places on the card with the socket set, just as it is.

 

[Joe Huld]

Any chance you'd be willing to photograph that brochure? As far as I know, it's never been seen and the catalogs have never shown this set. I'd love to see that inventory list.

It is a card and apparently had tools wired to it at one time. It has not been cut down. I am also sending a PM.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I'm saying I would leave the card in the box and display the 'tiny tools' in their respective places on the card with the socket set, just as it is.

Agreed. That would be pretty cool to display. I don’t think there is many of those left


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[Oldtuleguy]

That would look cool. I have one odd box labeled sears ignition set no. 400. Has BE sockets in it.

 

[3baygarage]

Joe that’s a stellar find. Funny how these things are now showing up all at once.

 

[JoCoSawdust]

I've never seen that one before either OTG. That's a head-scratcher. And a cool one!

 

[3baygarage]

Ire

Nice find, Joe. 3baygarage has the same set, but not with that amazing ignition "Tiny Tools" card inside. I'm a sucker for life-size outlines. The vintage Army loved them. Duro-Indestso used them, too. But I didn't know Craftsman did. I've never seen that card before.


That's the take I agree with.

That’s right, the ignition set on a card has shown up before by them.

I also took a look at that plier silhouette shape and thought Hinsdale.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Joco the ad you posted showed the set in a box, which reminded me of it. I have never known what to make of it.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Wow you are dead on 3bay. Would make sense hinsdale supplied them

 

[Smokeshow69]

Ire



That’s right, the ignition set on a card has shown up before by them.



I also took a look at that plier silhouette shape and thought Hinsdale.

3 bay- is this your ignition card with hinsdale pliers laid over it? I do agree on the shape!


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[3baygarage]

3 bay- is this your ignition card with hinsdale pliers laid over it? I do agree on the shape!


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No, I blew up Joe’s photo from this thread on the screen.

 

[Smokeshow69]

No, I blew up Joe’s photo from this thread on the screen.

Ok, makes sense now!


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[Smokeshow69]

Ok, makes sense now! Still good detective work !

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[Private Lugnutz]

It is a card and apparently had tools wired to it at one time. It has not been cut down.

What are the dimensions of the card?

As I alluded to in my first reply, post #4 on page 1, Duro Metal Products and Indestro Mfg Co sold a small ignition set with the tools wired to cardboard cards like that in the same era. My Indestro set is shown in Pics 1 & 2 below. It is rather grimy and hard to make out the outlines completely, but they're there. The Duro set in Pic 3 is tin medic's and, while far less colorful than the Indestro version, it provides a much better view of the outlines.

The card (and box) are 6-7/8" x 2-3/4".

I'm not suggesting your card fits in the same box. It has more tools on it and is obviously larger. But it just might fit in a similar box that Sears sold other smaller Craftsman socket sets or other small wrench sets in. Maybe these crafty Craftsman guys on here can match the dimensions to one of those smaller boxes as a way of helping to determine if it was original to the 3/8-inch drive set box or just stuck inside there by a PO.

Although Duro-Indestro is the only OEM I was aware of that used this cardboard-and-wire method prior to seeing your Craftsman card, I'm also not suggesting that Duro-Indestro was the OEM for those Craftsman tools. There's no indicators for that, and the practice may have been more common than we have seen through collecting or catalogs. EDIT: Such as Hinsdale, perhaps.

 

[Gear Wolf]

I'm going to send Joe a PM and see if there would be a possibility of "inter-toolbox" loan. Much like JoCoSawdust helped me months ago, there have been a surprisingly high number of individuals who have volunteered their tools for purposes of filming. Is it a bit spendy for me to do that, absolutely, but I don't have to have an infinite inventory of tools/set among other things.

While I have 2 of the ratchets already, where one is going to rileysan, it would be great to have viewers see the entire socket set in real time. I'm not about twisting people's arm. Like our former comedian...I mean President George W. Bush sought a, "coalition of the willing", I'd like to think this is a house that many built together. If that doesn't work out, well, I suppose photos will do.

 

[Smokeshow69]

I'm going to send Joe a PM and see if there would be a possibility of "inter-toolbox" loan. Much like JoCoSawdust helped me months ago, there have been a surprisingly high number of individuals who have volunteered their tools for purposes of filming. Is it a bit spendy for me to do that, absolutely, but I don't have to have an infinite inventory of tools/set among other things.



While I have 2 of the ratchets already, where one is going to rileysan, it would be great to have viewers see the entire socket set in real time. I'm not about twisting people's arm. Like our former comedian...I mean President George W. Bush sought a, "coalition of the willing", I'd like to think this is a house that many built together. If that doesn't work out, well, I suppose photos will do.

Hopefully Joe would be willing. If I owned that set I sure would be willing to loan it to you. I know I enjoy the videos and history that they entail! I don’t understand why people would complain about the vise length since it is supposed to be educational, not a cliff notes version. I say keep up the good work! If I had anything rare enough to put in a video I would loan it but alas I am not that cool [emoji23]


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[Gear Wolf]

Hopefully Joe would be willing. If I owned that set I sure would be willing to loan it to you. I know I enjoy the videos and history that they entail! I don’t understand why people would complain about the vise length since it is supposed to be educational, not a cliff notes version. I say keep up the good work! If I had anything rare enough to put in a video I would loan it but alas I am not that cool [emoji23]


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Thank you. I appreciate your sentiment. Yeah, people complained about that the first time around. Admittedly, I had a loose outline, where I would ad hoc the rest. This time, I've made a script, so there won't be any side conversations or references to past things unless required. That should cut down the length of certain videos by quite a bit. I know the "Quick Release" video will be literally as long due to explaining the Peter Roberts lawsuit in depth.

Back to the point, I've got most of the scoop on this unique family of tools. I'm not trying to be a diva, but I'm really trying hard to keep the lid on it until I am able to release the video.

I believe people are becoming more aware of specific tool families due to forums like this and the old videos I made making reference to certain pieces.

 

[Smokeshow69]

Thank you. I appreciate your sentiment. Yeah, people complained about that the first time around. Admittedly, I had a loose outline, where I would ad hoc the rest. This time, I've made a script, so there won't be any side conversations or references to past things unless required. That should cut down the length of certain videos by quite a bit. I know the "Quick Release" video will be literally as long due to explaining the Peter Roberts lawsuit in depth.



Back to the point, I've got most of the scoop on this unique family of tools. I'm not trying to be a diva, but I'm really trying hard to keep the lid on it until I am able to release the video.



I believe people are becoming more aware of specific tool families due to forums like this and the old videos I made making reference to certain pieces.

I just had a thought... you keep doing the ratchet history project and rileysan and jocosawdust can do a craftsman USA tool box history project [emoji23] we all know how much the old catalogs left things to be desired so this will be fun to research [emoji41]


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[Gear Wolf]

Absolutely! I can see more studies in general popping up these days. Hopefully, people will be able to share their pieces of tool history before they are gone forever.

 

[ed4banger]

Found this pic online.

 

[Oldtuleguy]

Was watching that one. Went for 1025$

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Mid19...-/203216076834?_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49292