Help me build a barndo!!!

[JSB Jeep]

Hi all,
I am getting ready to tackle a project converting an existing 40x72 pole barn into about 1200 sq ft of living quarters, a 4 car garage, and a workshop of about 640 sq ft. The original building was built around 1986. All posts are 8' on center with the trusses spaced at 8' as well. Last year we replaced all of the original metal, as well as adding house wrap. We installed all new windows and doors and raised them 12" so we can build a subfloor. The plan is to run all plumbing and some electrical in the subfloor. I will also add insulation in the subfloor so the floors of the living quarters will be somewhat more comfortable. We also installed exterior concrete for the porches.
I will have many questions on this build and I know I'll get many answers from the great contributors on this forum. I would like to chronicle the progress of this build is often as possible so others can critique and learn as I will be doing the same. Thank you all in advance and let's begin.....

 

[JSB Jeep]

Here is the exterior and 16x40 workshop

 

[JSB Jeep]

Living Quarters Floorplan - 1200 sq ft

 

[JSB Jeep]

Interior

 

[JSB Jeep]

I am ready to begin installing the subfloor and insulation. This barn is located in central Ohio. What are everyone's thoughts on vapor barrier for floor and for the walls? Spray foam is out of the budget. I was thinking 1.5" foamboard in between the girts. I've done this before and it was a pain but effective. I was then thinking 2x6 exterior wall studs with R-19 unfaced batts followed by visqueen vapor barrier. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

 

[rmmiller]

I'm no help but I like where you're going with this!

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I get you’re probably wanting to stay within the original shell. And some costs are unavoidable- but I question your choice for building a floor.

I personally would have taken a different path- 1st and foremost not wanting to lose any “shop/garage space”- I’d have gone vertical. Put the living space overhead.

 

[GirlnAgarage]

That's a cool looking place. I'm not much help now either but I want to see where this is going. Maybe I'll have useful help later.

 

[PugetDude]

I like the concept but the insulated raised floor sounds like a rodent resort. It's hard enough keeping them out of a unheated open garage, let alone a nice cozy condo with free bedding materal.

 

[rayra]

Looks good so far. Where the workshop space in relation to the residence floorplan and what are you plans for a fire wall or vapor isolation from the shop space?

/and what software are you using for the modeling, it looks great. I tried using sketchup for some barndo ideas and man it had a steep learning curve.

 

[Dogmeat]

OK....I'll bite....WTF IS A "BARNDO"???

 

[jblnut]

OK....I'll bite....WTF IS A "BARNDO"???

Barnd'O'Minium ..... Shouse .... Pole home .... All are names for a house in a shed which some call barns ..... Sheds house stuff, barns house critters so I call them a Shouse as I don't want my cattle on the other side of my living room moo'ing at me

Looks like a cool space. I'd highly second the no adds floor deal. Will certainly be a rodent motel.

I like the shop/house entryway through the laundry room.

Also curious on what you're using for software to design it !!

 

[JSB Jeep]

Thanks for all the quick replies already! The living space is for my MIL so adding a second floor wasn't really a viable option. There's still a 4 car garage plus the workshop as well as the oversized 2 car garage for the main house on the property. It's definitely a big chunk of space to lose but for our situation it works perfectly and is the main reason that allowed us to buy this property a few years ago. The barn is surrounded by woods and everything sort of slopes down to it. That was another reason we raised the living space floor. All the doors and windows are set so I think we're stuck with that decision. Any suggestions on sealing the rodents off or is that a pipe dream?
The software I used is just a free simple app on my ipad called Magicplan. Very simple to use for space planning.
Still looking for ideas on the concrete vapor barrier in the floor and what the latest trends are for the exterior wall insulation. Thanks again!

 

[JSB Jeep]

Looks good so far. Where the workshop space in relation to the residence floorplan and what are you plans for a fire wall or vapor isolation from the shop space?

/and what software are you using for the modeling, it looks great. I tried using sketchup for some barndo ideas and man it had a steep learning curve.

If you look at the floorplan, the laundry room opens out to the garage space. There is a separate wall from that over to the workshop. If you look at the exterior photo you'll see the man door on the right which opens into the workshop. I will be insulating the entire exterior of the building as well as blown in cellulose in the "attic". The garage and workshop ceiling will have the same metal as the exterior walls.

 

[billconner]

I think I'd look at a masonry barrier at perimeter - like a 4 or 6" cmu wall that subfloor sits on. A heavy vapor barrier - at least 6 mil but preferably 10 or more - then rigid foam or maybe rockwool.

I can't tell what state the walls are now. They look like sheetrock. So no suggestion on wall insulation.

 

[kj_mustang]

Is there vapor barrier under the concrete slab? You will have water vapor coming up through the slab if not and then trapped in that floor space if you put a vapor barrier at the bottom of the raised floor.

 

[PugetDude]

Steel Flashing that tucks under and completely covers pressure treated rim joists, then a layer of rodent resistant spray foam then another layer of heavy gauge flashing, carefully formed with folded and riveted corners- with the horizontal leg glued to the floor with liquid nails. The little rat b*stards will chew through any exposed wood to get into that space.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I would consider using Great Stuff and fill in the bottom 3" of the wall cavities. It'll really help seal up the wall space and help prevent air infiltration.

 

[rayra]

OK....I'll bite....WTF IS A "BARNDO"???

Growth industry is what it is. Pole barn buildings upgraded / modified to include residential space. Some are flat out fully homes with a pole barn structure as the outer shell.
But most are done to merge a garage / shop portion of the building and an integral residence.
'Barndominium' is the search phrase that will yield all sort of results in google and youtube.

/never heard of shouse before. I presume that's a contraction of *********. Which doesn't really apply.

https://www.youtube.com/@RRBuildings has some awesome examples. The last couple years they've really been doing some massive custom homes this way. After years of doing quality pole barn work.

There's also another building down in Texas that is doing some real nice work.

 

[nadogail]

I would love to be able to come to your assistance but I find it difficult to travel to your location.

 

[dougf]

You must really like your MIL to give her 1,200 square feet! I would consider shrinking that down to 600 depending on her age. If she has mobility issues I wouldnt want to give her too large of a space.

 

[My Old Tools]

I would pour a slab for the floor inside your shell. I built my original barndo inside a red iron shell on slab. I had the metal frame insulated before sheeting. I built 2x4 stud walls for the apartment, that includes against the metal walls. I insulated the 2x4 exterior walls so double insulation for the apartment, fiberglass bats. I shot the wall plates to the concrete with a .22 nailer. Ceiling was 2x6 on top of the walls, spans were reasnable and no roof to support. Attic was blown. I kept all wiring and AC ducts to the outside or between the ceiling joists so I could floor the attic for storage except for the outside 4 feet. I general it worked great. Very efficient to heat and cool. I did everything myself except the metal building shell and slab. I lived there 10 years and put my kid through college. When I sold it I more than tripled my investment. Mine was 1140 sf inside a 30x80x10 metal building, 2 bedroom, one bath, full kitchen, living area and office.

 

[dcg9381]

There's actually very active FB group "building barndominiums" - lots of good info.

 

[JSB Jeep]

You must really like your MIL to give her 1,200 square feet! I would consider shrinking that down to 600 depending on her age. If she has mobility issues I wouldnt want to give her too large of a space.

Haha yes we get along quite well! She's still young and the 1200 sq ft should be just about perfect.

 

[JSB Jeep]

I would pour a slab for the floor inside your shell. I built my original barndo inside a red iron shell on slab. I had the metal frame insulated before sheeting. I built 2x4 stud walls for the apartment, that includes against the metal walls. I insulated the 2x4 exterior walls so double insulation for the apartment, fiberglass bats. I shot the wall plates to the concrete with a .22 nailer. Ceiling was 2x6 on top of the walls, spans were reasnable and no roof to support. Attic was blown. I kept all wiring and AC ducts to the outside or between the ceiling joists so I could floor the attic for storage except for the outside 4 feet. I general it worked great. Very efficient to heat and cool. I did everything myself except the metal building shell and slab. I lived there 10 years and put my kid through college. When I sold it I more than tripled my investment. Mine was 1140 sf inside a 30x80x10 metal building, 2 bedroom, one bath, full kitchen, living area and office.

You mean I should pour 12" of concrete on top of the existing concrete for the 1200 sq ft of living space?

 

[JSB Jeep]

I would consider using Great Stuff and fill in the bottom 3" of the wall cavities. It'll really help seal up the wall space and help prevent air infiltration.

This is more in line with what I was thinking I'd have to end up doing. From the above comments, I think I also need to consider protection against rodents as part of the design.

 

[JSB Jeep]

Steel Flashing that tucks under and completely covers pressure treated rim joists, then a layer of rodent resistant spray foam then another layer of heavy gauge flashing, carefully formed with folded and riveted corners- with the horizontal leg glued to the floor with liquid nails. The little rat b*stards will chew through any exposed wood to get into that space.

Great idea! Any links to articles, pictures, or videos showing this method? I'm a visual learner....

 

[JSB Jeep]

Is there vapor barrier under the concrete slab? You will have water vapor coming up through the slab if not and then trapped in that floor space if you put a vapor barrier at the bottom of the raised floor.

I highly doubt there was vapor barrier installed prior to pouring the slab. Is there a way to manage the moisture that will undoubtedly accumulate in the subfloor? Would sealed visqueen creating a tight envelope not be sufficient?

 

[billconner]

You mean I should pour 12" of concrete on top of the existing concrete for the 1200 sq ft of living space?

I thought about suggesting that but I'd anchor 8" of EPS with a 4" space at walls. And lay heavy poly on existing slab. It does allow for radiant floor heating and you can still rough in wiring, plumbing, etc. Would be worth a peek-a-boo to see how costs compared. Best solution for rodent concerns. Makes any shower/bath leak concerns minor. I'd probably consider a polished concrete floor if going this route.

 

[NUTTSGT]

This is more in line with what I was thinking I'd have to end up doing. From the above comments, I think I also need to consider protection against rodents as part of the design.

I'd still get 1 1/2" rigid foam between the posts and metal siding.

Is screwed a piece of 3" wide OSB to the wall to create a form board. It was wrapped with stretch wrap as a release agent. Using Great Stuff or similar foam, slowly fill up the cavity, with multiple passes. After a day or two of drying, unscrew the OSB and pull it off.

 

[ShuhornGarage]

Hi all,
I am getting ready to tackle a project converting an existing 40x72 pole barn into about 1200 sq ft of living quarters, a 4 car garage, and a workshop of about 640 sq ft. The original building was built around 1986. All posts are 8' on center with the trusses spaced at 8' as well. Last year we replaced all of the original metal, as well as adding house wrap. We installed all new windows and doors and raised them 12" so we can build a subfloor. The plan is to run all plumbing and some electrical in the subfloor. I will also add insulation in the subfloor so the floors of the living quarters will be somewhat more comfortable. We also installed exterior concrete for the porches.
I will have many questions on this build and I know I'll get many answers from the great contributors on this forum. I would like to chronicle the progress of this build is often as possible so others can critique and learn as I will be doing the same. Thank you all in advance and let's begin.

I've been in 3 buildings like what you're constructing & while the concept is really cool & "somewhat" practical, you've just reduced your re-sale market to a small needle in a very large haystack & it will appeal to very few buyers & they will generally grind your price to a painful level & will "wait you out" til you give up

I understand you likely plan to live there forever but one day either you or your estate will want/need to sell it, be prepared to NOT recover anywhere close to what you've put into it.

Not intending to rain on your parade but hopefully you build in your plan to eventually build a separate house the ability to convert all the current project to an amazing shop & make my above comments irrelevant

Cheers

 

[dcg9381]

I've been in 3 buildings like what you're constructing & while the concept is really cool & "somewhat" practical, you've just reduced your re-sale market to a small needle in a very large haystack & it will appeal to very few buyers & they will generally grind your price to a painful level & will "wait you out" til you give up

I somewhat agree, these buildings differ from traditional residential residential. They'll have a smaller market, but because the buildings are unusual - I also find that (in my area) they are desirable and tend to sell fast.

One challenge (depending on area) is to finance them, you often have to have "similar structures" within a reasonable distance for a real estate assessor to set value on the structure. IE, no comps? No loan.

There is a growing "barndo" movement as well as entire "bando" communities going up in my area.. Appreciation has been good, at or above traditional residential.

Would it work the same in rural Kansas as a one off? I'm not sure.

 

[mrpizza]

I've been in 3 buildings like what you're constructing & while the concept is really cool & "somewhat" practical, you've just reduced your re-sale market to a small needle in a very large haystack & it will appeal to very few buyers & they will generally grind your price to a painful level & will "wait you out" til you give up

I understand you likely plan to live there forever but one day either you or your estate will want/need to sell it, be prepared to NOT recover anywhere close to what you've put into it.

Not intending to rain on your parade but hopefully you build in your plan to eventually build a separate house the ability to convert all the current project to an amazing shop & make my above comments irrelevant

Cheers

I built a "barndo" and lived in it for 18 months. Sold it for 30K over my investment within a few hours of word getting out we were thinking about selling.

 

[ShuhornGarage]

Fantastic & good for you, most aren't that fortunate. I'm glad you had success with it & made a little extra. Congrats

 

[mrpizza]

My reply was to what seems like a blanket statement that barn houses will all be a financially losing proposition.

The only issue is most banks will not do a traditional fixed mortgage. I know our buyers got an ARM with a bunch of cash down to the bank.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Keep in mind, the OP is building this for his mother in law in his post frame that is already built. The OP also has a home on the property so it won't be his primary residence.

I don't think it will create a huge issue if any when the time comes to sell. Any of the interior walls aren't load bearing and can be removed fairly easily. If those interior walls are removed, it can easily become a woodshop or other work space.

 

[Rc_Guy]

I get you’re probably wanting to stay within the original shell. And some costs are unavoidable- but I question your choice for building a floor.

I personally would have taken a different path- 1st and foremost not wanting to lose any “shop/garage space”- I’d have gone vertical. Put the living space overhead.

Who wants to climb stairs?

OK....I'll bite....WTF IS A "BARNDO"???

This is ours. We just call it a pole barn house. About 1500 square-foot of living quarters and about 1600 ft.² of garage.

Not sure how cold it gets in Ohio but on the house part of ours, the builder put plywood on the outside, then housewrap then the metal siding the same with the roof. It’s got a plywood roof and the metal on the roof.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

Who wants to climb stairs?

Gee, I don’t know. Maybe somebody who has two operable legs???
Ever heard of a residential elevator?

 

[My Old Tools]

You mean I should pour 12" of concrete on top of the existing concrete for the 1200 sq ft of living space?

Why are you building a raised wood floor on top of an existing slab? Seems like a waste. I assumed you were building over dirt.

 

[Rc_Guy]

Gee, I don’t know. Maybe somebody who has two operable legs???
Ever heard of a residential elevator?

Ever seen the price of an elevator?