Help me pick the right compressor

[bastage]

go with at very least 5hp 2 stage 60gal anything smaller is junk won't last .

<<Snipped>>

40 gal is not going to cut it .

So your logic here makes no sense to me... Why would a 5HP 2 stage 60 gallon be good & anything smaller is Junk when the 40 gallon in question is also 5HP 2 stage. In fact its the exact same other then height as the Puma TE-5080V which is a 5HP 2 Stage 80 Gallon.. Its my understanding that if its 10 gallons or 100 gallons the flow is more important as the size just means it wont cycle as often. And if I do decide that I need more air on reserve I can always add an aux tank to the setup. If I am missing something though please explain. I am not a pneumatic expert at all.

My 60 sits in a small 24"x24" box, with Quiet Brace on the inside to dampen noise. The back side of the "box" is in the work room - the walls are 2" with some pink insulation and OSB for the outside finish. Can have a phone conversation near the box without much trouble.

I had never heard of that quiet brace stuff. Thanks for the tip

I have heard nothing but good things about California Air tools. Here is a 4HP with a 20 gallon tank puts out 12.8 CFM for $990 at the Big orange Box store. http://www.homedepot.com/p/California-Air-Tools-20-Gal-4-0-HP-Ultra-Quiet-and-Oil-Free-Electric-Stationary-Air-Compressor-20040C/206512048

See & I haven't heard anything good about California Air Tools other then that they are very quiet. I can see some applications where that would be advantageous, but I really gotta question the durability & long term reliability. Which is a bummer as with a little more flow that would be a pretty decent setup. Or the one with the 4x 2hp motors instead would be good as it & very small. Totally be perfect for my garage. I just cant see spending a grand on something without a proven track record.

 

[bobabuee]

smaller compressor tend to skimp on pump parts also smaller compressors do not have true 5hp electric motor they advertise 5 hp but it actually 3hp . larger compressor has heavier duty parts in pump and true 5hp motor more cfm usable, larger compressor tend to run less & less noise last longer look on motor label if says 5hp spl or... if off brand manufacturer stay away. you want more reserve air for painting & sanding.

 

[bastage]

smaller compressor tend to skimp on pump parts also smaller compressors do not have true 5hp electric motor they advertise 5 hp but it actually 3hp . larger compressor has heavier duty parts in pump and true 5hp motor more cfm usable, larger compressor tend to run less & less noise last longer look on motor label if says 5hp spl or... if off brand manufacturer stay away. you want more reserve air for painting & sanding.

Lots of "tend to" in that.. From what I can find and I have looked there are only 2 40 gallons in they market. The puma I am considering which is a shrunk down version of an 80 with the same motor and pump and everything else. And the other is a snap on which is way too expensive. I don't know if it's specifics other then being made by big red air. Either way though I don't think that these fit into what your saying above about smaller compressors other then that they run more.

 

[md21722]

Question.. For those of you more knowledgeable then I (as in everyone)...

If I bought a small compressor (horizontal 6 or 8 gallon) can I easily replace the pump & motor on it with 5hp variants & then put a larger tank or 2 in the attic above my garage. Would there be any disadvantage to this assuming I routed a manual or automatic valve to purge the water from the tank down into the garage. Trying to think of how I can maximize my space & the area above is in scissor truss's so while it would be a PITA to get a tank up there it wouldnt ever have to move again & it would be out of the way.

The answer to this is probably not. The smaller tanks are generally intended for single stage applications and so they are rarely rated over 150 PSI. A dual stage tank is rated 200 PSI. Also the top plate is not going to be beefy enough for the bigger, heavier components.

 

[md21722]

Given your requirements, your best bet is probably the PUMA. Unless you're over buying on HP altogether.

The other thing you could do is get some industrial shelving and put a larger compressor up higher off the ground.

If you go with an auxiliary tank later make sure its rated 200 PSI.

 

[Heavymetalmechanic]

That puma will do everything you need, and if you decide to add storage capacity down the road you can tackle bigger projects if you factor in refill cycles. For noise, I suggest searching on here for muffler threads, lots of great ideas. I picked up a muffler for a OHV engine and brazed it to some fittings so I could install it between the filter and the intake. It made a very nice improvement in the sound level. Another option is to plumb the intake outside, that helps a lot! Make sure you set up a drain line and valve that is easy to access, water build up is a major killer of tanks, and it's easy to forget or put off draining it if it's a pain to get at.

 

[bastage]

Ok.. I am at this point the more I think about it the more I want to stay with the shorter unit. It will probably be the Puma.. I am definitely overbuying on what I need with it. Should have lots of future proofing even with it only being 40 gallons.. I am holding off for a week or 2 on ordering hoping to find a used deal locally (which will mean going to a taller 60 gallon most likely), but so far the only thing that even sounds reasonable is an Air America 6.5 horse 60 gallon or a Speedaire 30 gallon. Which from my reasearch either one may have some advantages, I have emailed on both listings & so far havent gotten anything back. Everything else for a quality compressor locally is 1000+ & 80 gallon.


Edit: 15 minutes later... My mind was changed on the puma... Called a place local that is supposed to have used stuff.. well the guy doesnt right now, but he does carry the Belaire 216v for 869.. At 200 less then PED & still 140 (well 100 after tax) less then the PUMA it seems as though I am going to go with this one. Hell thats only 90 more then the harbor freight one with 8 times the standard warranty..

 

[Citation]

Can I offer a totally off the wall idea?
This isn't one of your options but what about keeping your existing compressor and adding one of the California Air Tools 2hp compressors?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SOD08M/?tag=atomicindus08-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QFH5NCM/?tag=atomicindus08-20
At 5.3 CFM @90 psi they are probably matching your current compressor for air flow. However, they are truly quite machines.

What I would suggest is plumb both tanks together. Use the CAT compressor as your primary pump and turn on the older compressor only when you need more air. That would give you, I'm guessing, about 10+ CFM @90 psi or about the same as the $500, 60 gallon unit.

The smaller CAT compressor is under $300 and is very portable. If you need to fill tires it should be up to pressure in about 1 minute. It would also easily fit under a bench or on a wall thus your total setup might take up no more room than what you have now. But you would only have 24 gallons air when adding in your existing compressor.

The 15 gallon model would take up more space under a bench and costs $120 more but you would now have 35 gallons of total tank.

Because none of the above compressors are overly heavy you could consider creative mounting. Your existing compressor and/or the CAT could be mounted in the rafters to save floor space. Since the Devilblis is oilless you should be able to remove the pump and rather easily mount just the pump in a sound reducing box under an bench or over head while the larger tank is left on the ground.

Given the options you listed I would normally say get the 60 gal HF and call it good. However, as one who currently has a very small garage and "dreams" of upgrading to something hardly bigger than a 3 car garage I understand your space concerns. Space yet a want for power was why I was planning to plumb my 20 gallon (5.5 cfm, oil belt drive, reasonable noise level) unit to my roofing compressor (4 cfm, 4 gal) so I could use either or both. Almost 9 CFM and hardly more space than my larger compressor.* With another 120V circuit I could even add my CAT 5510 (that's 2 more CFM!).


*This plan fell away when I was given three 80 gallon compressors in various states of repair. Net result my father got the best (2 stage, 4hp Husky). Of the other two, one has a bad pump and switch while the third has a replacement 3hp Harbor Freight pump. I may take the 3hp replacement pump from one and put it on my father's old franken-compressor (3 hp (15A, 230V) motor, 30 gallon tank, 2hp non-original pump). Net result would be a 30 gallon, 10 cfm compressor that should fit under a bench. But I also might decide not to bother and just go with my original plan which would still net 24 gallons and 9.5 CFM. Decisions decision.

 

[bastage]

Thanks for the ideals Citation, but at this point I think I am going to bit the bullet & just go with the 60 gallon Belaire (unless a good deal pops up, which I doubt considering that there aren't many decent smaller compressors & no other 2 stage 60 gallon besides the HF one that I am aware of). Basically on the wall in question I will loose a chunk 40" wide & 6' tall or 20 square feet of wall space. The Puma 40 gallon would be the same width, but only about 54" tall so a little over 16 square feet of the same wall. In both cases I may be able to shrink the 40" width down some, but there is a breaker panel & a stud for the end of my built in shelves there that makes for a natural edge to the compressor's area.

I am sure I could go with a much more complicated setup for less money & maybe less noise, but ultimately I think I would be sacrificing reliability (not just in the compressor itself, but in the system as a whole).

Now to start piecing together everything else I need.

I am thinking I am going to use the 1/2" Rapidair kit to put outlets where I most commonly need them as well as a auto rewind reel on the ceiling. That is pretty straight forward.

But the Regulator, Filter, Lubricator on the other hand.... I get what each does, but since I am working in a tight space it would be most ideal if I could find one where the air flowed from left to right.. It appears that right to left is just the standard (which in most cases probably doesn't matter).

I attached a picture of what this corner of the garage will look like, except obviously not to scale & the compressor wont be sticking up through a shelf (my MS Paint skills are not that great). That total wall where the FRL is shown is about 33" deep up until I get into the area of where the garage door tracks are. The shelves are 24" deep. And if I keep the compressor towards the far end of its little hole there will still only be about 6" total at that side (though I am basing that off the measurements for the width which is probably the mounting plate so realistically a few more inch's then that). As far as I can tell I am going to be making an upwards S shape from the lead in hose coming from the back wall up through the FRL then up & back to the left to get to where it will tie in with the Rapidair system.

https://ibb.co/mHUCrF

 

[Citation]

I think many regulator and filter assemblies are reversible. For example this one (first one I found on Amazon)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005JDKYMC/?tag=atomicindus08-20
is reversed by putting the gauge on the back side of the unit (see one of the questions). If you get a separate filter and regulator you can just turn the regulator upside down. It doesn't care. Many of the combo units I've seen appear to be modular so you could mount them in any order. Also, if you are going to run a higher PSI system you might consider putting regulators at your outlets rather than at the compressor. It would cost more but might be more flexible in terms of space etc.

 

[bastage]

I think many regulator and filter assemblies are reversible. For example this one (first one I found on Amazon)
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005JDKYMC/?tag=atomicindus08-20
is reversed by putting the gauge on the back side of the unit (see one of the questions). If you get a separate filter and regulator you can just turn the regulator upside down. It doesn't care. Many of the combo units I've seen appear to be modular so you could mount them in any order. Also, if you are going to run a higher PSI system you might consider putting regulators at your outlets rather than at the compressor. It would cost more but might be more flexible in terms of space etc.

I even looked at that one & didnt realize that. Thanks, its been added to my Amazon Cart.

 

[bastage]

Well I am about indecisive... Now it looks like it going to be a Horizontal 60. In fact I already bought the tank & motor... Was in the next town over buying the trailer I brought it home on. Had a few minutes to kill & stopped at a farm store to look at the compressors.. Well when I saw either "Made in China" or "Made in India" on the pump's of the Ingersoll-Rand's I made a snide remark & the guy next to me started laughing.. 30 minutes later I was at his house & left with this for a total of 55 bucks...

Hopefully I didnt do too bad cost wise. The tank has been outside for a couple months covered in snow laying on its side. The motor was inside on a shelf. The horizontal setup will probably actually waste more wall space, but it will be lower & depending on the height once assembled it may actually live under my work bench.

I am pretty sure the motor is 5hp anyway & its clearly US made. Gotta figure out what pump & then figure out everything else to go on it. Anyone know of a "from scratch" or restoration type walkthrough for these big compressor's.. I am sure I can figure it out anyway, but if someone has already done the work to make it easier that would be cool too..

 

[md21722]

That is a 3.x HP motor.

I know it says 5 HP on the top plate, but it's not.

Some years back compressor manufacturers were including the start windings and their was a class action law suit.

A 5 HP motor would draw 19-23 A.

Note the HP on the motor nameplate is marked "SPL" (special)

This is the type of motor that is on the 3.x HP compressors at Home Depot, Lowe's,etc.

Also, since this was a single stage air compressor, the tank is probably only rated for 150 PSI. You would need a 200 PSI rated tank if you wanted to run dual stage.

It's also non-reversible which means you need to get a pump meant to run CCW. Most are, but there are some that are CW.

 

[bastage]

That is a 3.x HP motor.

I know it says 5 HP on the top plate, but it's not.

Some years back compressor manufacturers were including the start windings and their was a class action law suit.

A 5 HP motor would draw 19-23 A.

Note the HP on the motor nameplate is marked "SPL" (special)

This is the type of motor that is on the 3.x HP compressors at Home Depot, Lowe's,etc.

Also, since this was a single stage air compressor, the tank is probably only rated for 150 PSI. You would need a 200 PSI rated tank if you wanted to run dual stage.

It's also non-reversible which means you need to get a pump meant to run CCW. Most are, but there are some that are CW.

So it sounds then like the harbor fright or northern tool sub 200 dollar pumps are going to win. That should still be fine...

 

[md21722]

The only pump at Northern Tool that is less than $200 only puts out 5.5 CFM?

This is what you'd use if you wanted to get the full 3 HP:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200671477_200671477

Or this one from HF with dubious reliability:

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-145-psi-cast-iron-twin-cylinder-air-compressor-pump-60638.html

It seems strange that you went from 5 HP dual stage to 3 HP single stage in a hurry because you bought an old motor and tank for $55. I would look inside that tank to check its condition & try to pressure test it before investing any more money. You will need to buy belts, pressure switch, tubing, & some fittings unless you got all that with it.

 

[bastage]

The only pump at Northern Tool that is less than $200 only puts out 5.5 CFM?

This is what you'd use if you wanted to get the full 3 HP:

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200671477_200671477

Or this one from HF with dubious reliability:

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-hp-145-psi-cast-iron-twin-cylinder-air-compressor-pump-60638.html

It seems strange that you went from 5 HP dual stage to 3 HP single stage in a hurry because you bought an old motor and tank for $55. I would look inside that tank to check its condition & try to pressure test it before investing any more money. You will need to buy belts, pressure switch, tubing, & some fittings unless you got all that with it.

Nope I didn't get anything else with it.. Well I got the old pump, but its shot.

It comes down to the deal.. Also I have a hard time leaving well enough alone & constantly tinker/tweak everything.. So getting it in a DIY style doesnt bother me much. Kinda prefer it this way.. Just couldnt find the basis to start with before so it was a ready built.

I am also a bang for buck shopper. From the looks of it with the 140 dollar HF pump I am only into this thing 300 bucks total. I wont feel too bad if I reach the limits of the compressor and have to upgrade later with that much into it. Plus with the way that used compressors are priced locally to me I could probably make back most of my money.

What happens if I put the bigger HF pump on it. I get what your saying about the rated HP was exagerated, but if I had the max CFM set lower as to say 135 isntead of 145 the pump will never have to work all out so it shouldnt ever get to its hardest to turn.

Ultimately I am just looking at the CFM @90 so if that works that will give me as good of CFM as I would have had with anything else here, just at a lower price point & more pump cycling (and noise, yuck).

 

[md21722]

3HP air compressors generally make 10-11 CFM @ 90 PSI.

The 5 HF single stage @ is rated 15.2 CFM @ 90 PSI. Speed range is 655-1050 RPM and HF recommends 850 RPM.

Assuming 3.2 HP / 5 HP * 1050 = 672 RPM.

Assuming a pressure switch set 110-145 I think you risk running into the service of the motor, which this one doesn't even have. I would want to have an amp clamp and see what the motor is drawing as it airs up.

Remember that air tools are meant to have 90 PSI working pressure. Assuming a 25 foot 3/8" hose and Milton V high flow couplers, the regulator should be set around 110 PSI. If the hose is 50' then 120 PSI. If you plan on putting any swivels on your air tools, add another 15 PSI.

Also, most regulators are have a 30-40 PSI minimum differential. The Condors are closer to the 30. Some are fixed differential.

There is pressure drop across every point in the system, regulators, hoses, couplers, ... This is why dual stage compressors are far better for shop air.

 

[StevenMorgan]

Check out these Easton pumps too. Lots of good info.

https://www.eatoncompressor.com/bare-pumps

 

[bastage]

So I am pretty indecisive.. It doesnt help that getting a larger compressor is moreso of a "because I wanna" and not an actual current need.

If I continue with the DIY from what I already have I think the right pump for the job is the LPSS7538. Seems to fit the bill of the original correctly. With the pump & what I already have I would be into it 200 bucks total & need the pressure switch & whatever its called that connects the pump to the receiver.

But I also haven't ruled out getting the Belaire 216v.. I know its better in every way even with the increased cost. From what I can tell though that increased cost still doesn't buy me a Made in USA pump and motor though. What is the minimum to have to step up to in order to get a complete made in USA package. Looks like the Quincy QT Pro which in its own is ok, but I dont like having to spend another 200 bucks in order to get the warranty to match the 216v. Basically a 400 dollar difference to be completely made in the USA or am I missing something.

 

[Z2V]

Check out these Easton pumps too. Lots of good info.

https://www.eatoncompressor.com/bare-pumps

Thanks Steve, your gonna cost me some money with that post!

 

[chops101]

A few points to note, in your pix the tank appears to be rated at 140 psi.
Correct above on the HP vs amp rating, my Ingersol Rand (Dayton) motor made in the USA is 5 HP at 21.5A, and the USA made Ingersol Rand tank is rated at 200 psi.

At minimum drain the tank and inspect; and google "air compressor explosions" to see what an old tank can do when you're not sure of it's history and maintenance.
Good luck with the project.