Help on garage ceiling height increase

[jsimon77]

Hello All,

I've been reading all of your great post on this topic and thought it would be helpful to get some advice.

I'm looking to put in a car lift in 1 of my 3 garage stalls.

Current Garage:
- 3 stall
- Attic space above my garage
- Nothing above the garage other than the roof. 2nd story of the house is set back from the garage.
- Current height is 9 feet.

I'm looking to gain 1-2 feet of height in one stall. I'm assuming there are some structural joists that will need to be moved.

I've posted a few pictures. At this point I'm just trying to understand how complicated this job is. Easy, Medium, Hard...5k, 15k, 30k?

Any help or ball park based on experience will be helpful to see if this is even feasible

<a href="https://imggmi.com" target="_blank"><img src="https://cdn1.imggmi.com/uploads/2019/6/14/721609f1e797d2e32fc18fc61156c818-full.jpg" border="0"/></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/F0wxYHp"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/rc67pd9/IMG-2543.jpg" alt="IMG-2543" border="0"></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/q1qk40W"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/NYDZk1m/IMG-2544.jpg" alt="IMG-2544" border="0"></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/Wy0bSf9"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/C76kxQd/IMG-2545.jpg" alt="IMG-2545" border="0"></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/C5HWCZV"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/SX3JY8V/IMG-2546.jpg" alt="IMG-2546" border="0"></a>

 

[ddawg16]

Those are engineered truss's. You do NOT want to be cutting on those without an engineer's instructions.

If you want to remove part of your ceiling in the last pic....that has potential. But, you want an engineer's take on it.

 

[jsimon77]

Totally I'm going to do it the right way with an engineer putting plans together and getting it permitted.

I'm just trying to figure out how complicated and costly it might be do do it.

I'm not sure the space in the last picture is enough for what I will need.

Those are engineered truss's. You do NOT want to be cutting on those without an engineer's instructions.

If you want to remove part of your ceiling in the last pic....that has potential. But, you want an engineer's take on it.

 

[Power Sedan]

That's exactly the same situation Jason, as we discussed. Here's my current set-up, just waiting for engineered approval. Plus I'll be taking the garage door/rails closer to the ceiling, and purchasing the Lift Master side mount shaft unit to eliminate the middle track.

 

[jsimon77]

Will you have your garage rails go slanted following the roof line?

 

[meboatermike]

Rather then fool with the ceiling and trusses, have you considered just lifting the whole garage up putting it on a taller stem wall?

 

[ddawg16]

Rather then fool with the ceiling and trusses, have you considered just lifting the whole garage up putting it on a taller stem wall?

Or.....build next to it?

 

[ddawg16]

Rather then fool with the ceiling and trusses, have you considered just lifting the whole garage up putting it on a taller stem wall?

Or....lower the floor?

Joking aside....is the lift to just store another car or do you want to work on it?

 

[jsimon77]

It’s to store another car.

Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of options to build anything else… Only option is up.

 

[SGKent]

It’s to store another car.

Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of options to build anything else… Only option is up.

or find a property with the number and style of garages you want.

IMHO start shopping for an architect who can give you what you want to do. Do it once and do it right. It isn't just what it is going to cost to have the work done - it is also what it will add or subtract from the value of your home. Something that looks like it was done as an add-on can actually subtract from the value of a property if it look hideous and pushes future potential buyers away.

 

[LX-Markham]

Anything is possible ...if you throw enough time and money at it.
You have to find the right structural engineer willing to think outside the box a little. Not many will take on that job. I was motivated to find a solution.
Engineering was free, execution was around $8k.

Before

After

 

[firebirdparts]

You've got a mess there. You didn't give us enough information.

We don't know which way the stress in the building is running vs. which way the cars are pointed.

We don't know what a "lane" in the garage looks like vs. the obvious different areas of the roof.

The hip roof area is already stress free. You can lift a car up under the hip roof part for free. If, instead, you do it in the truss part, with a car perpendicular to the truss direction, it'll be a full teardown. So that's the range. The question is how wide is that hip roof part?

 

[jsimon77]

Fair enough. This is all new to me. So below is a picture of the garage as it is not essentially looking the same direction as the attic pictures.

I also put the attic picture in again that has a rough drawing of where the car under the attic.

Does this help give an idea?

<a href="https://ibb.co/x7CqSCP"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/mcD5CD1/IMG-2303-2.jpg" alt="IMG-2303-2" border="0"></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/QNSRThg"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/9TKL1BD/IMG-2543-2.jpg" alt="IMG-2543-2" border="0"></a>

You've got a mess there. You didn't give us enough information.

We don't know which way the stress in the building is running vs. which way the cars are pointed.

We don't know what a "lane" in the garage looks like vs. the obvious different areas of the roof.

The hip roof area is already stress free. You can lift a car up under the hip roof part for free. If, instead, you do it in the truss part, with a car perpendicular to the truss direction, it'll be a full teardown. So that's the range. The question is how wide is that hip roof part?

 

[jsimon77]

Any other thoughts now that I’ve posted a more accurate picture?

 

[curiousB]

Anything is possible ...if you throw enough time and money at it.
You have to find the right structural engineer willing to think outside the box a little. Not many will take on that job. I was motivated to find a solution.
Engineering was free, execution was around $8k.

Before

After

This is interesting. How did you avoid collar ties on the rafter? I see some steel on the perimeter, was that how you avoid the rafters pushing the walls out? If you could tolerate some sort of collar ties partially down the rafter could you eliminate the steel? A trade off for sure but the steel probably was a significant part of the cost?


Sent from my iPad using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[ford33]

To the OP, the way the trusses are positioned it appears the roof will need to be redesigned. I suggest a discussion with an architect or structural engineer first. Go to your local building codes department and ask for a few names of people who work in the area. Not recommendations just names they are familiar with in the village. Pay for a couple hours of meeting time and see if it is feasible. You are not asking for drawings or approvals just opinion at this point. Good luck.

 

[jsimon77]

Thanks I’m going to do that. Redesigning the roof won’t be an option so hoping I can find a way to open the ceiling and re-enforce the existing roof somehow.

 

[Power Sedan]

Thanks I’m going to do that. Redesigning the roof won’t be an option so hoping I can find a way to open the ceiling and re-enforce the existing roof somehow.

Are you contracting the work, or doing this yourself? The gentlemen doing my estimate sent the drawings and photos to a local company that designs and build the trusses for local builders. They have their own design engineers that will provide a design, which then can be submitted to city engineering department for approval and permit.

 

[jsimon77]

Nope going to contract it. I don’t know enough to do it my self.

 

[LX-Markham]

This is interesting. How did you avoid collar ties on the rafter? I see some steel on the perimeter, was that how you avoid the rafters pushing the walls out? If you could tolerate some sort of collar ties partially down the rafter could you eliminate the steel? A trade off for sure but the steel probably was a significant part of the cost?

Correct, the rafters push out on the steel perimeter frame. The steel frame wasn't cheap, but it's WAY stronger than any collar ties. There is almost no lateral deflection under heavy snow loads. I did end up putting some "collar ties" in, but only to square off the drywall.

 

[K'ledgeBldr]

I see a hip roof- and not a whole lot of additional headroom.

Trying to modify a truss system roof is not impossible, but in this particular case I would assume removal of the existing and engineering a clear span roof would probably be easier/faster than modifying the present.

Since there's no clear direction of execution- I would strongly suggest contacting a few general contractors and have them take a look.

 

[ddawg16]

The other option is a strong ridge beam that can hold the weight. But.....you have to have the proper support at each end.

In LX's case, the support post for the beam would have been over the garage door opening requiring a really big header there.

 

[Denwood]

Either a ridge beam, or restructure in place by cladding/reinforcing the trusses on both sides in the new profile. I’ve done both.

An engineer should have no issues doing this for you.

 

[Denwood]

Correct, the rafters push out on the steel perimeter frame. The steel frame wasn't cheap, but it's WAY stronger than any collar ties. There is almost no lateral deflection under heavy snow loads. I did end up putting some "collar ties" in, but only to square off the drywall.

I’ve seen your posts before ..and it was a very creative approach to the problem

 

[fire2892]

Either a ridge beam, or restructure in place by cladding/reinforcing the trusses on both sides in the new profile. I’ve done both.

An engineer should have no issues doing this for you.

I agree, sistering 2x material on the sides of the trusses would be the route I would go. With your hip roof design you wouldn’t be able to do this in the hip area, but you said it’s a 3 car so just move your lift down to where it is out from under the hip.
Sistering onto your existing trusses would be a fairly easy job with no exterior work needed. My dad has done it in a few shops for people so they could get a lift in.
Your garage appears to be just a standard house garage depth, 24 feet possibly. That’s nothing to stick frame a vaulted ceiling in. 2x8 rafters would probably work perfect, 2x10 if need be, especially if you sistered both sides of the truss. It would be pretty easy to spec out, just pretend you are building the same roof pitch and span with no roof there at all. Then frame your new roof structure up to your existing roof decking. If you already have 9 feet and most standard lifts require 12’6” you could put a wind beam at 13 ft and the building would still be tied together very well.
In my neck of the woods stuff like this is done every day with no permits or inspections since no work is actually done on the outside of the house. Our local mom and pop lumber yard even has an engineer that will advise on designs and specing material out in cases like this. But I have heard horror stories about Cali and inspectors following people home from the lumber yard to see if they have permits for what they are building so I would definitely recommend you follow the proper channels in that case.

 

[firebirdparts]

Any other thoughts now that I’ve posted a more accurate picture?

Have you measured out how many trusses have to come out? You could take out everything under the hip pretty easily (and that first part of the ceiling, where all the wiring is running, is completely unstressed), but if you take out the second truss, I am not sure there is any reasonable way to proceed with wood. The first truss looks to me like it just supports the middle of the hip part. That one would be easier to remove than the 2nd one if I am seeing it right. However, note that today that's a double truss. I am not saying they didn't put some weight on it.

You could consider a form of cheating where you don't actually raise the ceiling for the full length of a car, since the front end of a car, at hood level, is not very tall.

 

[banjopete]

All the ideas are great but you need a structural engineer as you are suggesting. I'm changing the ceiling in my garage and am mid project with it. A visit, and drawing so far has cost me just over $1100cad. This was for a simple common rafter, no trusses in my case but it may give you an idea on price expectations. That mine was pretty simple probably kept the cost relatively low.

Good luck with the project. The added ceiling height always seems so nice in the before after pictures.

 

[jsimon77]

This is all really helpful and I do have an engineer coming out to look.

I measured and I essentially need to come 11' from the front of the garage to clear the car and In only need to gain 1 foot of height. 11' means I'd go through the first 2 trusses.

See the pics attached with mark up.

<a href="https://ibb.co/QrWRDty"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/LnTWNHV/Screen-Shot-2019-06-18-at-10-20-33-AM.png" alt="Screen-Shot-2019-06-18-at-10-20-33-AM" border="0"></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/LJgg2g8"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/2sMMfMy/Screen-Shot-2019-06-18-at-10-17-50-AM.png" alt="Screen-Shot-2019-06-18-at-10-17-50-AM" border="0"></a>

 

[Denwood]

That looks like a good candidate for the restructure in place. For my application, we took 50 foot trusses and created an 11 ft vault on one side from the existing 8ft ceiling. It involved gluing/screwing a single layer of 3/4" fir plywood to both sides of the truss. We then added 2x6 material to reinforce the new the bottom chord...basically a 2x6 + Ply + 2x6 + Ply +2x6 at the new bottom chord. It's very strong as our snow load here is high.

The 2nd of the two drawings is the one we're talking about. The 1st was another mod to create a 17ft clerestory by raising a roof section.

This was the end result:

 

[Falcon67]

Start at post 405, see how I did it
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=100482&page=21

 

[jsimon77]

Thanks these are both super helpful!

 

[MattRMagnum]

Have you weighed the cost of doing all this vs. storing the vehicle elsewhere? Depends a lot on the cost of storage spaces in your area, but I had a car in a 20' storage unit for about $110/mo. If it costs you $8k to get the double lift installed, that's 6 years worth of rent at a storage place.

Just food for thought. I did that with my previous residence, until I was able to move somewhere that had the garage I wanted.

 

[jsimon77]

This was 100% what I wanted to do but the cost is insane here in Los Angeles...$500-$700/mo for a storage unit of that size.

I would love to find a parking structure where I could get a full time parking pass but most don't let overnight parking.

Have you weighed the cost of doing all this vs. storing the vehicle elsewhere? Depends a lot on the cost of storage spaces in your area, but I had a car in a 20' storage unit for about $110/mo. If it costs you $8k to get the double lift installed, that's 6 years worth of rent at a storage place.

Just food for thought. I did that with my previous residence, until I was able to move somewhere that had the garage I wanted.