Help wiring this old generator

[moneysblades]

I have a old WinCo 1 phase, 1500 watt, 115 volt portable generator that won't produce electricity. Looks like it's been worked on before and need help with the internal wiring.

 

[moneysblades]

Here are some pics

 

[mike93lx]

I am all for learning and DIY, but based on the lack of info and those pics, I'd strongly recommend this approach

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Amazing deals on this 1800W Co Secure Gas Generator at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[moneysblades]

It's a 1950s or 1960 generator. What could be so complicated about the wiring? I got the gas engine part running just need help understanding the generator components work.

 

[mike93lx]

It's a 1950s or 1960 generator. What could be so complicated about the wiring? I got the gas engine part running just need help understanding the generator components work.

You might start by sharing some information other than "it doesn't work". I am sure you can get help, but you have to give people something to work with

 

[The Cobbler]

could be that it lost magnetism needs flashing . James Condon on You Tube does a lot of generator repairs .
I think you might need more pics than what you've shown to get any help

 

[moneysblades]

It's the wiring that I need help with. Here are some more pics.

 

[moneysblades]

The 2 thick white and black wires are labeled G1 and G2

 

[mike93lx]

Symptoms? What diagnostics have you done? What tools do you have?

I'd start with cleaning it as that always makes troubleshooting easier.

At that age, the wire insulation is likely all junk

 

[Lassen Forge]

Voltage induced by the spinning rotor to the rings on the end of the shaft, transmitted to the brushes running on those rings, wires attached to brushes on one side and (usually) a voltage regulator/cutout system, and From there to your breaker/outlet/feed lines.
What diagnosis have you done do far? Do you have voltage anywhere in the system while running? If so, what and where? If not you may have broken windings or cooked magnets or ??

I suspect something crapped out (broken winding wiring) and someone dug in trying to "fix it" blind, ergo your wiring issues. You need to see if the genset hooked to the motor is even viable. Your overload protection device could be blown. Your voltage control relay could be shot. Someone could have hooked it to a high draw circuit and cooked it. Your motor brushes may be not making good contact or broken. Or the sptings for them weak or broken. Hell, lots of potential issues. Broken windings in the genset are common in ancient units like this, and (unless your BIL works in a motor shop) usually not worth rewinding, unless you have a particular attacment to the thing (like it's a genset for a particularly rare low amp welder, or it was your father-in-laws, or somesuch). You can be into a newer (and better) unit cheaper.

Otherwise - Black=load, White=Neutral, and Bare/Green=Ground. Your red/yellow to transformer to relay is your voltage cutout / control circuitry. The green thing is an overload or short circuit prevention device (and they can and do go to **** with age sometimes). Like Mike said, at 50+ years, a lot of those components and wiring will give you probs.

Get out the old voltmeter, watchout for moving parts and bare wires, and start checking to see what you have where.

 

[The Cobbler]

it's sort of like, my car wont run,please help me fix it.
I really think you'll need to provide a bit more info, like @mike93lx has asked, plus some OHM readings on the various wires might not hurt either

 

[TheEquineFencer]

Clean the slip rings by spinning it with an ultra-fine scotch Brite pad pressed on the slip rings to remove the oxidation. Then remove the wires to the brushes. Determine which is the (-) and (+). start the motor up and apply 8-12 volts DC to the brush terminals you unhooked the wires from. While applying voltage to the brushes with it running, check the AC output. If it's not now putting out power, toss it, there's something wrong with the stator or rotor. If it puts out a noticeable increased voltage, hook everything back up and see if it works.

IMO, it's not worth the time and effort other than trying to learn something. SmokStak.com is the place to look info of this thing.

 

[moneysblades]

Okay I disconnected wires from brushes and started motor then applied 12v dc to wires I unhooked and output wires from slip rings read ac voltage 80 - 140 volts jumps around but that's a good sign right? Now how do I wire the transformer, cutout relay, short protection, and outlet.?

 

[moneysblades]

Heres what i got left

 

[TheEquineFencer]

So with 12 volts applied to the slip Rings through the brushes, do you mean you do have AC output? Where normally AC output will come out of the generator at?

 

[moneysblades]

12v dc applied to outside windings gives me gives me ac voltage output at slip rings with black and white.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

You apply DC VOLTAGE TO THE BRUSHES THAT GO ON THE SLIP RINGS WITH THE ROTOR TURNING. Did you do this?

 

[moneysblades]

Yes i connected a 12v battery to the brushes on the slip rings and get ac voltage from the outside windings but motor soon slowly bogs down and dies if i keep the 12v applied.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Using a good multi meter, check for short to ground from slip rings and from stator (120VAC output). These should be infinite resistance.

What is the resistance across the slip the slip rings (rotor/field) ? What the the resistance across the stator ?

 

[TheEquineFencer]

I'd separate the stator windings, check the windings for a short and check the resistance. If its bogging down, something is probably shorted.

I'm guessing its a 4 lead stator. Also check th windings for a short to ground.

 

[rustyzman]

In case you need more info on the genset, check out WINCO's website. It was mentioned recently in another WINCO thread and I downloaded all the manuals for my 60's WINCO FireFighter unit. I was quite surprised by how much info they had (everything), and its free.

Archived Parts Archives | WINCO

www.wincogen.com

Just need to search out your model number.

 

[moneysblades]

Ok just to make sure I understand what's what. Can someone explain these parts and what they are called.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

It "appears" your generator end is also a starter. The slip rings when you apply DC voltage to the brushes, BTW, the slip rings need cleaning, "should" give an AC output from the stator. The next set of brass commutator rings forward of the slip rings are most likely for use to spin the generator over! Basically its a starter motor also. In this unit was coupled to a small gas engine at some point. So if you apply I "assume" 12v or 24v to the inner brush blocks, it should spin the generator end. Then once the end is spinning as in generator motor is running, they disengage, that set and then there's voltage applied to the slip rings for it to work as an AC generator.

My suggestion, join Smokstak.com and ask in there, someone probably has the wiring diagram for it.