Hex bit socket quality - there is a difference...

[richfinn]

I don't really see Allen head bolts anymore on European vehicles, mostly Torx/Torx plus or XZN or conventional nuts and bolts.

I used to see them a lot on older VAG vehicles and the gold Snap-On worked OK for me, although I had to flip the bits in the socket holders as they wore down

One less tool to worry about as far as I'm concerned

 

[drtyler]

Many Ford brake caliper bolts require 9mm.

They actually offer sets 4mm up to 10mm in the 3/8 size (just no 9mm, but then who uses them?). The set is also cheaper ($94) than Snap-On's gold coated version (you pay for a 9mm). I think there is zero comparison to the Swiss made ones and both have life time warranty. The 1/4" goes down to 3mm.

Out of all the tools that PB Swiss offers, their hex sockets seems to get the highest praise of all which is really tough to do. The dark TiN coating on them is insanely hard. Go look around and see what other people say about them.

https://shop.pbtools.us/PB-V10-210-3-8-Hex-Key-Drive-Sockets-Metric_c237.htm


** They also have a set of 7 in socket Torx:

https://shop.pbtools.us/PB-V10-400-3-8-Long-Torx-Drive-Sockets_c239.htm



`

 

[mr.lemons]

PB Swiss hex bit sockets.

https://shop.pbtools.us/Sockets-Socket-Sets_c19.htm

Wonder why these are not on the PB swiss website. US and Japan only?

 

[Dave455]

Wonder why these are not on the PB swiss website. US and Japan only?

PB offer loads of stuff that’s not in the Catalogue, you just have to ask!

And yes, those are about the strongest I reckon!

 

[FuzzyTiger]

I'm surprised no one mentioned the newer MAC RBRT type bits.
https://www.mactools.com/en-us/Sock...3-8-Drive-Metric-R-B-R-T-Short-Hex-Driver-Set

I don't have any yet but, they seem to becoming popular.

I have a few sets of them and they are magic. Nothing else comes close.

 

[KnurledNut]

I have a few sets of them and they are magic. Nothing else comes close.

Have you had a chance to use them much?
If so, was it mainly on compromised fasteners?
Do they leave "bite marks" on undamaged fasteners during removal?
These would have been great to have for this particular application.

 

[nbpt100]

It would be interesting to know the vintage of the GW socket. Good to hear someones actual experience.

Is the SO bit designed to off load the corners and load the fastener closer to the mid point of the flat? I have learned any hex bit can damage a fastener if there is ample side loading. Sometimes it is hard to avoid side loading in an awkward position.

One could say one failure out of the box out of Millions still passes a 6 Sigma evaluation that allows 3 failures per million.

Sorry in advance if I am repeating someone... I dont have time to read all 3 pages of replies.

 

[gatewaysysop]

The Snap-on HD torx are exactly the same in material. The difference is they're slightly oversized so they need to be hammered in and dont leave much, if any, room to cam out

PB Swiss hex are nothing special. That whole brand is overrated in my experience and floats on prestige more than performance. Anyone who thinks otherwise can argue with some hard data. They came in second to last and last out of the 8 4mm and 6mm hex keys tested and last in bit sockets. Even their phillips driver came in last or second to last. This jives with what little i've bough of theirs. Looks good, performs mediocre, pain to warranty. With so many other far better (and cheaper) choices I dont see any reason to buy their stuff unless you just want your tools to look pretty.

Not sure I'd hang my hat on what looks like a sample size of one in each of those experiments. Why not break 10 or 20 of each in the same fashion and see if the pattern holds? Without a larger sample, you've got no confidence in the results or their rank ordering.

Just my $.02 of course, but if you want to impress me with data, give me a reason to believe the results aren't the byproduct of chance and that your conclusions about who is best/worst (if there even is a statistical best/worst, which there may not be) carry the expectation of being repeatable.

 

[lardy1]

How well are bits seated? Is the torsion off angle (for lack of better words)? Socket caps can involve many variables in which human error can and often does come into play. It's easy to blame a tool for my own shortcomings.

I do agree there are differences. But comparisons can be very misleading as can others experience.

 

[KnurledNut]

How well are bits seated? Is the torsion off angle (for lack of better words)? Socket caps can involve many variables in which human error can and often does come into play. It's easy to blame a tool for my own shortcomings.

I do agree there are differences. But comparisons can be very misleading as can others experience.

Not my first rodeo, but i know what you are saying. This wasnt a bolt to mess up on. Both bits were hammered in and seated. The GW actually fit tighter.
Socket was 90 degrees to ratchet arm.
The main reason i shared this is because hex keys/bits are viewed as consumables and it would seem logical that a new one will work better than a used.
If its the same brand, this probably holds true if the manufacturing is the same for both.
But a new softer low/mid quality one has a better chance of failure than a used high quality one, within reasonable wear.

 

[XxToolAholicxX]

You stated it now.. How dare you say that some tool maker is better then Snap-on

 

[XxToolAholicxX]

If your really serious about having the best set, then get yourself some PB Swiss hex bit sockets. They make the S-O's look like Gearwrench, not saying the S-O are bad.

https://shop.pbtools.us/Sockets-Socket-Sets_c19.htm

You stated it now.. How dare you say that some tool maker is better then Snap-on

 

[Jtels85]

I’ve been using GearWrench bit sockets and even have a set of NAPA (rebranded GearWrench) torx sockets that I bought roughly a decade ago. Never once had issues with any of them.

Craftsman USA hex sockets on the other hand... I’ve destroyed those things like they were made out of powder.

 

[nbpt100]

Not sure I'd hang my hat on what looks like a sample size of one in each of those experiments. Why not break 10 or 20 of each in the same fashion and see if the pattern holds? Without a larger sample, you've got no confidence in the results or their rank ordering.

Just my $.02 of course, but if you want to impress me with data, give me a reason to believe the results aren't the byproduct of chance and that your conclusions about who is best/worst (if there even is a statistical best/worst, which there may not be) carry the expectation of being repeatable.

Yes, and like the ratchet conversations if it broke a torque that is much higher than you normally should use it, does it matter? The pictures show the failures and some seem to yield more than others. You may pull something out of that.

Unless you can read those reports you do not know what they did and can not say a lot. A sample size of 1 is nothing more than a hunch. A sample size of 30 gives your data a 90% confidence level and a sample of 45 gives you a 95% confidence. IIRC. It has been a few years since I had to do real statistics. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[nbpt100]

I’ve been using GearWrench bit sockets and even have a set of NAPA (rebranded GearWrench) torx sockets that I bought roughly a decade ago. Never once had issues with any of them.

Craftsman USA hex sockets on the other hand... I’ve destroyed those things like they were made out of powder.

I believe the GW bit sockets are now made in China. You likely have a Taiwan COO. I am not saying the GW are now bad quality. But if you read some of the posts about GW in general you will see more disappointment in some of the posts. Some related to warranty claims and other just general over quality. If you read the fine print GW will no longer warranty bit sockets.

I like my GW bit socket set as well as my ratcheting box wrenches. Never broke one. But I do not use them all the time. Yes, better than USA craftsman bit sockets and hex key wrenches.

 

[IndyGarage]

It's a matter of hardening.

Socket head capscrews are typically fairly hard. In aerospace factories they used to use a lot of them and the cheaper brands of sockets never last very long because of wear. Snap on, work well generally and last a long time, but they have a hard shaft and they break if you overtorque them.


Metal can be heat treated to be hard and brittle, or soft and tough and of course different base metals have different properties of toughness to begin with.


They could be heat treated for a hard outer surface and a softer tougher core - which I'm sure they all try to achieve - but that is fairly sophisticated heat treat for a thin tool like this that sells for not a lot of money.

I'm betting the two tools are produced differently and of different metals.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

If your really serious about having the best set, then get yourself some PB Swiss hex bit sockets. They make the S-O's look like Gearwrench, not saying the S-O are bad.

https://shop.pbtools.us/Sockets-Socket-Sets_c19.htm

I’d second this. I have both Snapon and PBswiss and the PB’s make Snapon hex and torx sockets look like HF junk in comparison. Plus the PBswiss ones have been used daily for a decade now and show very little wear. The Snapon set is only a year old and already starts to show wear on the tips.

 

[shawhite]

I’d second this. I have both Snapon and PBswiss and the PB’s make Snapon hex and torx sockets look like HF junk in comparison. Plus the PBswiss ones have been used daily for a decade now and show very little wear. The Snapon set is only a year old and already starts to show wear on the tips.

Post pictures of the two side by side so the forum can decide for themselves.

 

[visionguru]

I have Hex/Torx bits/keys/sockets from Snap On, PB Swiss, Bondhus, Craftsman, Harbor Freight, and tons of free keys from assembling kids' furniture. Frankly, I have yet noticed any difference in terms of fit, except Philips screw driver bits.

In OPs post, the Snap On bit is longer than the Gearwrench, could that be the cause of the issue? Can't believe one can find such a big difference in a common/simple tool.

 

[knobby]

I was doing a valve adjustment on a lawnmower and I broke a SO HD gold torx T15 or T20. using a ratchet. It was the first time that socket had ever been used, and I wasn't even reefing on it. SO replaced it no problem. I think what I used was a Lisle torx after I broke the SO to do the job.

If the bit that you used actually was a lisle and it out preformed ANY other brand of hex or torx bit I would be astounded as my experience with lisle drive bits was VERY discouraging to say the least.
BUYER BEWARE

 

[mikebaker1129]

I just ordered the Proto 3/8 dr. RBRT SAE & Metric sets.
I hope that they are as good as they say.

 

[Steve_P]

Skin- thanks, that's good test data comparing PB to others.

I've always been skeptical that they're vastly superior as people here claim, and they clearly aren't; especially for the price premium in the US. For the 6 mm hex key, the difference is about 10% best to worst performance. So if they all vary +/- 5%, and I wouldn't expect more than that over a large sample size, then at best PB is statistically the same as the others.

I think the only thing I have by PB are metric pin punches, only brand I could find online at the time, and some carbide tip nail sets; both of which are awesome so far.

 

[n8n]

Skin- thanks, that's good test data comparing PB to others.

I've always been skeptical that they're vastly superior as people here claim, and they clearly aren't; especially for the price premium in the US. For the 6 mm hex key, the difference is about 10% best to worst performance. So if they all vary +/- 5%, and I wouldn't expect more than that over a large sample size, then at best PB is statistically the same as the others.

I think the only thing I have by PB are metric pin punches, only brand I could find online at the time, and some carbide tip nail sets; both of which are awesome so far.

PB Swiss also seemed to be the best available Pozidriv bits for a bit holding screwdriver when I looked ~10 years ago. I ended up buying the Snap-On ratcheting screwdriver and adding Vessel JIS and PB Swiss Pozidriv to complete the "set". The rest of my bits are the big Harbor Freight kit because the remainder is so seldom used.

 

[KnurledNut]

Skin- thanks, that's good test data comparing PB to others.

Giving credit where due, this info originally came from superautobacs.

Here is the original thread:
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306388