HOA/ARC committee issues

[mrmeaner]

I have a 40 x 50ft metal building in my back yard - in staying within the HOA rules 80% of the structure has to match the existing dwellings exterior(Stone, Brick or Stucco - so I matched the brick and bricked three sides and did a wainscot of brick 4Ft up on the fourth side facing the pool.

I had my plans approved by the Architectural Review Board. But now I am catching some flack from the HOA - Come to find out the other 20% of the structure wether its synthetic, metal, or cement board has to have the appearance of wood.

My options are do nothing and fight with the HOA standing my ground as the ARC approved my plans. Other option is to give in a put up some kind of hardy board, cedar panels or just brick it. Problem is I am currently out of money as I am so far over budget now I just don't have the funds to do the brick or wooden boards right now.

The funny the funny thing is I have now been asked to join the ARC and have accepted a position on the board.

Anybody had to deal with a situation like this and what was the result?

 

[alwaysFlOoReD]

Faux paint.... Make it look like fence board if the seams are vertical,

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Is what you've done so far in violation of a written rule you had access to? Or is it something the HOA would like you to do since you're done with the building? If its not in writing and appears to be an arbitrary decision by the HOA ...

Then I would very politely tell the HOA to go pound sand. The ARC approved it. I think the HOA is screwed.

While you can't be involved in the dispute as an ARC member, the ARC should go to the HOA and tell them what you've done meets their requirements.

 

[ford33]

Talk to them about a solution. Come up with some suggestions that are within your budget and ask them to advise you on an acceptable solution. They likely are looking for a solution that will meet the HOA rules and your needs.

I am on an HOA board and understand that while a plan may be approved, if something doesn't meet the standard for the community they have the right to make changes in the approval of the plan. It is not a you versus them situation. A good HOA board wants people to maintain and improve their homes. Improvements must fit the standard of the community. That is why people want to live in HOA controlled communities.

 

[matt_i]

I would ask for a temporary variance. In other words, you get something like a year or two, a predetermined date, to bring the structure up to compliance. They get the standard they want, you get to recover financially, just takes a little longer.

Trying to fight, legally, is going to cost money also.

 

[Falcon67]

Would not have expected HOA issues in Lubbock LOL. But as above - the review committee is just that, like a city Zoning Board. Zoning may approve, but the Council has the final say. Read your HOA covenants - may say the process is similar. ARC reviews and approves but the board has the final yes/no vote. My beef would be with the ARC - they should have known the total deal and informed you of that requirement from the get-go.

LP Smart Side would be a good alternative and is typically a little cheaper than Hardi. Hardi is a pain to cut - depending - but holds paint very well and my help you qualify for an insurance discount. Hardi is also very picky on nail set.

 

[mrmeaner]

Here is a link to my another thread with pictures of my build for reference http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304576

I have looked in to a paint solution as well as a cement board and brick.

So here is our HOA rules as stated when it was built. I only understood 80 had to be covered in the same material as the house. I missed the portion that stated the other 20% has to be covered in wood or siding(metal or synthetic) having the appearance of wood. However my plans were complete with detailed dimensions, materials ect..when i turned them into the ARC.

So yes it was written and afraid I may have to do something by coming to an agreement with the HOA. Personally I think it looks great how it is now and think Hardy Board would ruin the asthetics - so I may just have to do brick. I certainly do not want to be in competition with the HOA, I feel like i have one of the nicest houses in our neighborhood. I keep my house, yard and landscaping well kept and maintained.

Attached are the two clauses of Exterior Materials

Any and all other opinions are welcome

 

[mrmeaner]

Chris, yes unfortunately we have HOA issues - I live out of the city limits in the county, but in a neighborhood of approx 250 homes ranging from $300K - $1m.

 

[Rex_A_Lott]

Its an awesome looking building, its hard for me to understand how someone could ***** about the way that looks, but my opinion doesnt count here. I like the way you chose the metal to break up the brick.
I agree with you that the Hardi board would look worse. All brick would look better, but more expensive.
As a temporary solution put up a few wooden pallets for siding, maybe they will beg you to take it back down.
Good Luck

 

[Joe Reed]

Do the bylaws of the HOA address which entity (Board or ARC) has the authority to approve any variance? The links you posted above don't address that issue...and seem to be ambiguous. One states that the 20% material must be "wood or siding (metal or synthetic) having the appearance of wood, and as approved by the ARC". If the metal vertical siding on your barn is painted the same color and gloss as the wood on your house, I doubt anyone could tell it wasn't vertical wood siding from the street.

On the other hand, the other link you provide states that the ARC can, under no circumstances approve anything other than the same materials used on the house.

I'd first see if a permanent variance can be made so you don't have to change anything. You asked for - and received - an approval. If that approval is rescinded (if the bylaws even allow that) then the ARC's mistake creates an additional cost for you. Hopefully, your HOA Board will realize that is unfair.

As a compromise, the suggestion above of a temporary variance would be a reasonable option for both you and the HOA.

 

[Falcon67]

I can see the HOA reasoning for an area of that scale. It's easy enough to see the effect of no HOA or even county minimums in external/rural areas around here. One place is nice, then 1000' down the road is a pile. Our city doesn't really have the wherewithal to force people to meet even minimum code.

I'd ask the board for a variance, in that the building was built to plans approved by the ARC and that both entities (you and the ARC) missed a detail. I agree, it'll likely look kinda weird trying to slap something on the back side of the building now. Any chance there is anything similar in the neighborhood that lacks the 20%? That would give you an out LOL.

Last HOA I was involved with was down in Houston - Klein area, Harris county. The by-laws was a giant pile of paper but we never had any interaction with them. Had trees removed, landscaping, car(s) in the driveway, above ground pool in the back - paid the annual fees, never a peep.

 

[mrmeaner]

Thanks Rex!! I like how it looks now as well. Attached is a picture from the street showing the house and shop

Joe, the covenants and restrictions are a 60 page document, I just cut and pasted the specific line items pertaining to my issue. - I will have to look into more closely to see if either board has seniority. I have not received anything in writing as of yet from the board, rather spoke with two board members and heard through the grapevine about another homeowner expressing concern.

Falcon, there are several violations of the rules around the neighborhood, but none specifically like mine that I know of.

We have an HOA meeting tonight so will get more info and discuss my situation.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The ARC screwed you ! If you showed them the plans (with the metal siding) and they approved them, THEY are the ones who are wrong. See if the HOA is willing to compromise with something that does not cost you too much.

Your fall back is to sue the members of the ARC for the cost to make your bulding in compliance with the covenants and restrictions

 

[ford33]

Is it possible to put a fence in the front to hide the lower portion of the building? The fence would provide some security and allow the back building to blend in with the home.

 

[mrmeaner]

The entire building is in my back yard and the whole building is surround by a 7ft privacy fence including the front with has a sliding gate to access the buidlig from the driveway. The top portion of the one the side that is metal is facing into my yard towards my pool area. the Metal portion can be seen by probably three or fours neighbors one of which is one the board and I believe complaining about the rules.

The lower portion is not the problem as it is hidden by the fence the upper portion which can be seen by the neighbors is the issue at the building has a 14" eave height.

Will see tonight what becomes of arguing my position of the ARC approved my plans the way it was or compromising with some sort of variance

Thanks for all the responses!!

 

[Falcon67]

Good luck, may your HOA be blessed with reasonable folks.
The layout and street presence of your home and shop are outstanding. Best keep a close eye on that lawn...

 

[Voi]

Anybody had to deal with a situation like this and what was the result?

I sure haven't but hope you can work something out. I remember your thread and thought the building looked fantastic.

Thinking out loud here, many months ago I stumbled across ribbed metal panels with a faux wood grain pattern. I have no idea what it costs or how hard it is to find but it might be the most plug and play approach to a fix if you're backed into a corner.

I took a quick glance at your other thread just now and the metal side has sort of a board and batten look to it from the picture. Makes me think you can come up with an attractive option somehow.

Here is a picture I found on Google or corrugated metal with a wood grain pattern.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, the HOA might be willing to grant you a variance if you do not get belligerent with them. Your possible recognition of their authority may be all they need to be satisfied.

If a permanent variance is beyond them, petition for a temporary variance to allow you to come into compliance. When you approach the end of your allowed time to conform, you can cite your progress to date and request an extension.

Your first priority should be "Stay Out Of Court".

I own four properties in HOAs, and have served multiple terms as a HOA officer.

 

[mrmeaner]

I think I will request a temp variance with a clause to fix the issue within a one-two year time frame and a clause to only brick the majority of the side meaning only over to the porch leaving the area above the porch and under the porch canopy as is in metal.

I think they would be reasonable with that - in bricking the side I got a cost of $7 per foot for a price so doing 250sq ft would be a tad under $2k which I could do at some point.

yeah I don't want to get in a ******* match with them and/or do the lawyer court thing.

 

[jhelrey]

Personally I think it matches fine from the street and shouldn't be an issue but I am not on your HOA board.

 

[rburke65]

I really like that wood grained metal! The inside of our metal front door in painted with a wood grain to match the oak trim. Looks good. Can't be that hard. Good luck buddy!

 

[dave89iroc]

wouldn't be hard to paint that so it looks like wood from the street/neighboring houses, paint it a lighter color, tan, etc., then lightly brush on brown paint, the visible streaks from the light brush strokes look like wood grain, I've painted steel entry doors like this and it looked like wood until you were close enough to open the door

 

[theoldwizard1]

The entire building is in my back yard and the whole building is surround by a 7ft privacy fence including the front with has a sliding gate to access the buidlig from the driveway. The top portion of the one the side that is metal is facing into my yard towards my pool area. the Metal portion can be seen by probably three or fours neighbors one of which is one the board and I believe complaining about the rules.

Yeah, it only takes 1 !!

Will see tonight what becomes of arguing my position of the ARC approved my plans the way it was or compromising with some sort of variance

Good luck ! Please follow up.

 

[mrmeaner]

I argued my case that the current ARC approved my plans and I think it looks great the way to is but to no sympathy. We agreed to a one year temp variance to rectify and use brick or wood covering a portion of the exposed metal. Also will have a clause that once fixed I will have a permanent signed variance so future HOA's and ARC's cannot supersede the variance.

 

[maxpower_hd]

I would still go with the faux wood paint idea. Another option, although I don't know how much it would be, would be vinyl graphics. They can be applied and removed pretty easily. It would likely be cheaper than bricking it up but maybe not cheaper than some other options mentioned. It may be worth a few phone calls.

 

[Falcon67]

Sounds like you got the best deal possible under the circumstances. At least you've got time to work it out.

 

[DekeT]

Is this ARC thing part of the HOA or is it something with your county or township government?

 

[Falcon67]

Is this ARC thing part of the HOA or is it something with your county or township government?

Sub-committee of the HOA

 

[rsanter]

That to me looks like it could be wood. They used to board and bat siding ( I think that's what it was called) that was configured like that.
Look up some historical pictures of buildings that were vertically sided like that and show/compair pictures with yours

Option...
Get used barnwood and screw it to the metal siding in the Low areas...done

Option...
Faux painting

Option...
Pull the metal down and replace with exterior plywood. Or I guess go over what you have with exterior plywood...

Bob

 

[DekeT]

Sub-committee of the HOA

Then the HOA is really screwing with the guy. I generally defend what HOA do because you agreed to its terms by living there. BUT, not to abide by its decisions made by a sub-group specially designated for this purpose is likely exceeds the agreement. I would take the time to seek legal counsel to see if $ damages are appropriate. Strike first.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I argued my case that the current ARC approved my plans and I think it looks great the way to is but to no sympathy. We agreed to a one year temp variance to rectify and use brick or wood covering a portion of the exposed metal. Also will have a clause that once fixed I will have a permanent signed variance so future HOA's and ARC's cannot supersede the variance.

Always better to compromise instead of getting into a long term legal ******* contest !

 

[Ironhorse74]

Hold it. The ARC is part of the HOA and signed off on the design? The building was built to that design? F_ck them. I wouldn't do a thing and dare them to take me to court.

YMMV

Brad

 

[mrmeaner]

Hold it. The ARC is part of the HOA and signed off on the design? The building was built to that design? F_ck them. I wouldn't do a thing and dare them to take me to court.

YMMV

Brad

Well the ARC board is comprised of volunteer members of our 250 home community. Currently there are two members which one approved my design and thought it would passf, but since building it and looking more at the bylaws the other ARC member and the HOA board have an issue in which the way I did the design. I personally think it looks great but it reality it does not fit the covenants and restrictions. I figured it best not to go through the trouble of getting a lawyer involved and dragging the issue out. I compromised with them and said I would get the majority of it fixed within a years time frame. They made a compromise to me only fixing 50% of the total side being wood or bricked. Ill just save up and do the brick next year and all will be fine. I told them they will have to grant me a permanent variance so no other board can say otherwise.

Funny thing is one ARC board member dropped off this year they asked me and I accepted a position. So I now have to enforce the bylaws of the neighborhood. I will have a good story about my own experience if/when someone else wants to build a shop and copy me.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Then the HOA is really screwing with the guy.

2X

But ... at the end of the day the guy has to live in the subdivision. Unless the HOA has a history of "not liking" the decisions of the ARC, I think the OP has a reasonable resolution.

But in the end, if it were me and this was going to cost me money, and the HOA tried to override the ARC ... there might be a court test.

Note to all HOA board members and ARC members: Take your responsibilities seriously, clearly know the CCRs of the subdivision, put your decisions in writing, and don't screw up like this.

 

[Clik]

That metal siding was designed to look like wood/board and batten as a previous poster mentioned. You meet the requirements and your plan was approved. Tell 'em to pound sand.

I had a similar experience with a fence. The town approved my plans and I erected it as drawn.

I walked outside one morning to find the mayor, council and Code Enforcement standing in front of my house.

They demanded that I move the fence three feet.

I asked if there were any codes regarding paint or color. The reply was "NO". I then informed them of my plan to paint each picket a different color.

The Mayor turned to the council and said "I think we should just leave this man alone".

I sold that house 27 years ago and that fence is still there.

 

[Falcon67]

Hold it. The ARC is part of the HOA and signed off on the design? The building was built to that design? F_ck them. I wouldn't do a thing and dare them to take me to court.

YMMV

Brad

Ah, it's not any different than the Zoning board saying "yes" and the City Council saying "No". Or the other way - I've been to zoning meetings where the board said "no way" and then seen the person plead their case to the Council, with the Zoning chair repeating "no" and the Council saying "yes". The Governing board has final say.

Also, you don't thumb your nose at an HOA board in Texas. HOAs are not straw man type set ups - they have real teeth under state statutes.

"If a Homeowners Association prevails at a trial on the merits of a Restrictive Covenant enforcement lawsuit, the court should order the defendant-Homeowner permanently enjoined from continuing the conduct or activity complained of. If thereafter the defendant-Homeowner fails to comply with the court’s permanent injunction, then such defendant-Homeowner will be considered to be in contempt of a court-ordered injunction. “Contempt of court,” as it is generally called, is a pseudo-criminal offense that can be punished by both civil fines and incarceration.

In addition to injunctive relief, a court may also assess civil damages against a defendant-Homeowner in a Restrictive Covenant enforcement lawsuit. Chapter 202 of the Texas Property Code authorizes a court in a Restrictive Covenant enforcement lawsuit to assess civil damages against a defendant-Homeowner in an amount not to exceed $200 for each day of the violation."

 

[scotty t]

use wood boards and battens to mimic the steel siding then paint the same color. that keeps the look you like and meets the criteria. also pisses off the ONE neighbor who bitched.

 

[Falcon67]

Run the backwash from the pool pump into his yard.

 

[DekeT]

Ah, it's not any different than the Zoning board saying "yes" and the City Council saying "No". Or the other way - I've been to zoning meetings where the board said "no way" and then seen the person plead their case to the Council, with the Zoning chair repeating "no" and the Council saying "yes". The Governing board has final say.

This is an exceptionally good point. Planning commission(or Zoning Boards in less progressive places) only recommend and the council approves. I stated earlier that the HOA should be bound by its architectural committee. But we have no idea how the rules of the HOA are written. It was not even clear at the outset if the ARC was part of the govt or part of the HOA. As with most of these type situations observers from afar have no idea of the complete set of facts and can only guess what the process is. Full disclosure is rarity also.