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HOA horrors?

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PugetDude

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ericm said:
The problem with that is getting other people on the private road to pay their share when it's time for maintenance.
In California you can have a road association. It can set dues which get paid by each homeowner with their taxes. The association uses the dues to maintain the road. But that's all it does.
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My Sister and Brother in law live on rural property outside KC, share about a quarter mile of gravel road with three neighbors. It's like pulling teeth to get two of the neighbors to kick in for grading and gravel every couple of years. The third neighbor just flat refuses to participate because "he has a 4WD truck." I am glad I don't have to deal with situations like this.
 
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aggie113

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No HOA was a requirement when house hunting. I ended up in a voluntary HOA neighborhood which is toothless. In Texas the HOAs have way too much power. I remember as a kid watching Edward Scissorhands and that shot where they show the cookie cutter neighborhood just stuck in my mind as the place I did NOT want to live :)
My only regret is not being able to find a place close enough to work but outside city limits where I could use my own land for shooting on.
 
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tworley

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Both homes I've owned were in HOAs. I do think they have their place--I like driving thru a clean neighborhood.

First one we were in was not bad at all. We read the bylaws and CCR's before buying. IIRC, there were 99 homes all built between 1998 and 2004. My only complaint was the neighborhood was very cookie-cutter. They only had 3 models of homes when they developed. I became good friends with the president and treasurer as they lived just a few houses down. We'd drink whiskey together and I actually ended up on the board for a few years. We were never out to get anyone. The liens we did put on homes were because the homeowners were not paying their monthly dues and/or had multiple warnings/citations over something simple like putting the garbage cans behind the fence or in the garage or they had an unsightly lawn. All it took to waive fees was an explanation of what the plan was to bring the violation back into compliance.

Second one--also not bad. I pay $95/month and that covers my trash/recycling and a pool. I think there is upwards of 200 homes in this community, all built in the early 80s to the early 90s. Unlike the previous HOA, this one has 7 or 8 different style homes. Every house in our cul-de-sac is different. Neighbors are all very friendly and no one has complained about my goings on (motorcycle, rock crawler, 2 daily drivers, the occasional camper, 'banging wrenches together in the garage'). My only violation/warning so far was when I had a 16' flatbed in the driveway. I was storing it only for a few days while I was repairing lights, a cross-member, and mounting a spare tire. A simple email saying it would be gone in 3 days was all it took to waive the fee.​
 
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tworley

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mike93lx said:
Funny, I've owned houses in two neighborhoods, both without HOA's, and they were miraculously clean and well kept
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C'mon now, Im not saying homes outside of an HOA aren't.

It can be nice to have something in place that keeps your neighbors from being messy though.
 
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PugetDude

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mike93lx said:
Funny, I've owned houses in two neighborhoods, both without HOA's, and they were miraculously clean and well kept
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What was the zoning? Suburban, curb and gutter, single family, minimum lot size?
Or the rural wild west wihere anything and everything goes?
Your experience doesn't happen miraculously There were controls in place, either legislative or demographic., whether you realized it or not.
 
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mike93lx

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tworley said:
C'mon now, Im not saying homes outside of an HOA aren't.

It can be nice to have something in place that keeps your neighbors from being messy though.
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If that approach works for you, absolutely go for it.

I dont think I should be able to tell my neighbors how to keep their house and yard, so I don't see it as a benefit.
 
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mike93lx

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PugetDude said:
What was the zoning? Suburban, curb and gutter, single family, minimum lot size?
Or the rural wild west wihere anything and everything goes?
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Suburban, single family, acre lots. Nicer towns and neighborhoods, for sure, but they kind of neighborhood that generally has HOA'S.

Rural wild west typically won't have an HOA

I fully realize demographics are a factor, but I live in the kinds of neighborhoods that generally get HOA's. It's not like we are comparing upper middle class suburbs to downtown Detroit here. And my neighborhood isn't perfect by any stretch but I personally don't see an HOA as a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.

If you want perfect compliance absolutely send it. Plenty of choices for it
 
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PugetDude

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mike93lx said:
Suburban, single family, acre lots. Nicer towns and neighborhoods, for sure, but they kind of neighborhood that generally has HOA'S.

Rural wild west typically won't have an HOA

I fully realize demographics are a factor, but I live in the kinds of neighborhoods that generally get HOA's. It's not like we are comparing upper middle class suburbs to downtown Detroit here. And my neighborhood isn't perfect by any stretch but I personally don't see an HOA as a solution to a problem that doesn't really exist.

If you want perfect compliance absolutely send it. Plenty of choices for it
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Big difference between perfect compliance and keeping a neighborhood nice. The key is electing a board that can strike a balance between the two without alienating their neighbors. That's what we did, has worked out very well . :beer:
 
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mike93lx

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PugetDude said:
Big difference between perfect compliance and keeping a neighborhood nice. The key is electing a board that can strike a balance between the two without alienating their neighbors. That's what we did, has worked out very well . :beer:
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Glad you are happy with it.

People that buy into HOA's should want to live in HOA's. Seems like when those match up, it's OK. Many of the problems seem to come from people that buy in but don't want to be there. Blows my mind.
 
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PelicanPines

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HOAs are only as bad as the elected board. My wife and I are members of several boards (non HOA) and we know the Type of members that are bad... We've seen sketchy stuff, lies, etc to get their way... All you need is a nut job on the board and life could be hell.

Boards can and DO change the bylaws to fit their agendas. If you piss the wrong person off... They can makeup a rule to screw you.
 
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dcg9381

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mike93lx said:
Many of the problems seem to come from people that buy in but don't want to be there. Blows my mind.
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If you've never experienced and HOA, you may trample right into HOA land blindly. I did.

But I think it's more than that. If you want a newer house, reasonably close to civilization it's probably going to be in a developed community. Pretty much all of these come with HOAs (at least in my state).

Your alternatives are:
  • buy an older home in a non-HOA community
  • build custom on your "solely owned" property outside of an HOA (gonna cost a lot more than a spec home)
  • Buy a "spec" home that's a one-off by a small builder on an individual (old zoning) lot, again, usually more than living in a community.
My currently place has an "HOA", but before I bought there, I made sure that they hadn't filed taxes in years, didn't keep up their registration, and never had any sort of community vote. Essentially it's dead and defunct. To "legally" remove it, we'd have to re-organize the HOA, pay taxes, elect a board, get a 100% vote to disband the HOA, and then pay an attorney to make sure it's all filed and done correctly.

Demographics IMHO, play a more important role than "community rules" around keeping things "looking nice". But I'm more on the black sheep side of that with my 20' shipping container and leasing an RV spot...
 
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jar944

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PugetDude said:
Or the rural wild west wihere anything and everything goes?
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Im 100% on board for rural wild west, to include broken down cars in the front yard (or back 40), osb as exterior siding and burning your trash then burying what didn't burn in a hole with the 1964 IH backhoe that leaks oil and sits under a tarp in the side yard. (My wife on the other hand doesn't consider that "home" or "endearing" like I do). I remember getting a violation citation from the hoa at our old place and my wife thought the picture of the construction debris pile was from some other house. She wasn't thrilled to find out that it was our back yard.

If I could have found a house outside a hoa that met my minium criteria I would have been all over it. However finding house over a certain size sqft and under a certain age was limiting, or at least limiting in that I wasn't willing to spend 2x for a custom home. My ideal home would also have 100+ acres and not be able to see any neighbors.. still working on that.
 
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PugetDude

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jar944 said:
Im 100% on board for rural wild west, to include broken down cars in the front yard (or back 40), osb as exterior siding and burning your trash then burying what didn't burn in a hole with the 1964 IH backhoe that leaks oil and sits under a tarp in the side yard. (My wife on the other hand doesn't consider that "home" or "endearing" like I do). I remember getting a violation citation from the hoa at our old place and my wife thought the picture of the construction debris pile was from some other house. She wasn't thrilled to find out that it was our back yard.

If I could have found a house outside a hoa that met my minium criteria I would have been all over it. However finding house over a certain size sqft and under a certain age was limiting, or at least limiting in that I wasn't willing to spend 2x for a custom home. My ideal home would also have 100+ acres and not be able to see any neighbors.. still working on that.
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Here you go...
 
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aka Larry

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I think most that have issues with HOA it seems as just how **** some rules are or just picky someone on a power trip can be. Some are 'reasonable' but all it takes is one election for that do go out the door.

My buddy lived in a cookie cutter community with an HOA and they had some insane (to me) rules. You couldn't park any vehicles in the driveway. All vehicles had to be in the garage, and the garage door had to remain closed. I went over to help him swap out a clutch in his car and it happened to be in July. No way you're working in a garage with no A/C (in NC) with the door closed so we left it open. I had to park somewhere, so my car was parked in the driveway (where any visitor would park) so I guess visitors were not allowed either. He got a nasty gram on both offenses, not sure if he got fined or not. He wasn't there but a year, and he's moved into another HOA, but this one seems more 'reasonable'.

My wife might like some aspects of having an HOA because she's always complaining that our neighbor's yard looks 'junkie', but many of the others wouldn't work for us. We keep our grass cut, but we have four vehicles that sit outside, two of which are unregistered. They all run, and don't look like junk, but sometimes are house looks like a used car lot if we have friends over. It's not that unusual to have 10 vehicles parked in our yard.

I just try to get along with with my neighbors and be respectful. For instance I can (legally) shoot in my backyard (we have a 1 acre lot), but I don't think my neighbors would like the noise so I don't do it. I 'can' work out in my shop until 2am, but I don't think my neighbors would like to hear my air compressor or grinder running while they are trying to sleep.

I'm all for the 'give and take' associated with living near other people. I can put up with most anything that happens 'on occasion'. My neighbors have a large family and have an outside party 3-4 times per year. Sometimes their music is a little too loud, but so is my race car, which I also run 'on occasion'.

My attitude is more "Yes, it's my property, and nobody is going to tell me what to do with/on it", but at the same time just 'not being an *******' goes a long way too.
 
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mike93lx

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dcg9381 said:
If you've never experienced and HOA, you may trample right into HOA land blindly. I did.

But I think it's more than that. If you want a newer house, reasonably close to civilization it's probably going to be in a developed community. Pretty much all of these come with HOAs (at least in my state).

Your alternatives are:
  • buy an older home in a non-HOA community
  • build custom on your "solely owned" property outside of an HOA (gonna cost a lot more than a spec home)
  • Buy a "spec" home that's a one-off by a small builder on an individual (old zoning) lot, again, usually more than living in a community.
My currently place has an "HOA", but before I bought there, I made sure that they hadn't filed taxes in years, didn't keep up their registration, and never had any sort of community vote. Essentially it's dead and defunct. To "legally" remove it, we'd have to re-organize the HOA, pay taxes, elect a board, get a 100% vote to disband the HOA, and then pay an attorney to make sure it's all filed and done correctly.

Demographics IMHO, play a more important role than "community rules" around keeping things "looking nice". But I'm more on the black sheep side of that with my 20' shipping container and leasing an RV spot...
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Did you read and understand the covenants and rules when you bought the place?
 
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dcg9381

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mike93lx said:
Did you read and understand the covenants and rules when you bought the place?
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As a first time home buyer, I read them about as much as everyone else does. I knew there were CC&R, but they're presented to you at the title office along with another 100 pages that you're expected to sign in 1/2 an hour. So the answer to that is "no". But I did read them subsequently..

And look, I didn't get in much trouble for doing things I shouldn't. I got in trouble for doing things that were allowed, but subject to an unsupervised management company who got paid by the letter. But what I learned (in that community) was that unless people want to volunteer with real skills like accounting, book keeping, etc - we were going waste the vast majority of our funds on "enforcement" - even when those enforcement didn't change things (house was in foreclosure). Putting an HOA on "auto pilot" is a bad idea.

HOAs have their place, especially in communities with a lot of common property. Totally get it.

But when an HOA can literally foreclose on your home over a dispute about putting your trash can back on time, it gets a little silly to me. And we were running up thousands in "legal bills" over a yard that was mowed late or a trash can not put back on time. It would have been 100% more cost effective to PAY for lawn care on non-compliant homes.
 
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HoosierBuddy

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My daughter-in-law owned a condo when her and my son married. They moved into his house and rented the condo for a couple of years.

The HOA people for the Condo were not happy that she was renting it out, but there was no rule against it.

So, they took it out on the poor renters. It was a young married couple. He was required, by his job, to drive a van that had the company's name on the side. The HOA pointed out that this violated the rules and could not be parked in the driveway. So, he found another place to park outside of the neighborhood and walked home from there everyday.

Then they issued fines for smoking in the public areas, when they found cigarette butts at the end of the driveway.

The couple pointed out that not only did neither of them smoke, but as devout members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints (Mormons), they were specifically forbidden from smoking and were appalled that anyone would accuse them of such. That got the fine reduced to a strong warning.

Anyway...the HOA finally must of found something new to be upset about and they got off these kids backs. Things calmed down and eventually the condo got sold.

HOA's would likely be better if they had a lottery with everyone in the membership's name in it and pulled 5 names and said "you have to run the HOA for the next year." That way you wouldn't have the only people on the board being a bunch of "busy bodies", "nosy people", and people that just get off on telling other people what to do.
 
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mike93lx

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dcg9381 said:
As a first time home buyer, I read them about as much as everyone else does. I knew there were CC&R, but they're presented to you at the title office along with another 100 pages that you're expected to sign in 1/2 an hour. So the answer to that is "no". But I did read them subsequently..

And look, I didn't get in much trouble for doing things I shouldn't. I got in trouble for doing things that were allowed, but subject to an unsupervised management company who got paid by the letter. But what I learned (in that community) was that unless people want to volunteer with real skills like accounting, book keeping, etc - we were going waste the vast majority of our funds on "enforcement" - even when those enforcement didn't change things (house was in foreclosure). Putting an HOA on "auto pilot" is a bad idea.

HOAs have their place, especially in communities with a lot of common property. Totally get it.

But when an HOA can literally foreclose on your home over a dispute about putting your trash can back on time, it gets a little silly to me. And we were running up thousands in "legal bills" over a yard that was mowed late or a trash can not put back on time. It would have been 100% more cost effective to PAY for lawn care on non-compliant homes.
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I get buying a home is stressful and there is a lot. But we need to teach people that they should not allow themselves to be rushed through such major purchases. Especially documents that are not completely boiler plate.

When I bought my first house, I made it clear that I was reading the documents. It ate up a lot of time but I couldn't imagine blindly signing away that much money.
 
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jar944

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Just_Steve

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PugetDude said:
I'm willing to pay HOA fees for gated entry and private roads, as it really limits the traffic. Maybe it's just security theater, but we haven't had any issues with theft, graffiti, or vandalism in the six years we have lived here. Surrounding communities with public roads... just drive through and you can feel the difference.
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Wow a whole 6 years.
 
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logical

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There are of course bad HOAs but if all you know about them is based on youtube and tiktok videos, then you don't have a clear picture. While some HOA boards can change rules, it is not the norm. Most problems are more likely because homeowners didn't read before buying, or the occasional overzealous board members.
 
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jar944

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Rc_Guy said:
Hasn’t she ever been in the back yard?
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Not during that time. but in her defense It was a townhouse and the back yard was 75% under the deck with no window inside the house that looked at my pile of garbage (which was also under the deck)
 
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PCustoms

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bwringer said:
Haven't seen anyone yet who likes them.
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Literally the two posts prior to yours:


jfleisher said:
I’m living in an HOA development. Fees are $130/year, which covers common area/pond maintenance. Never hear from the HOA at all, other than meeting announcements. I’ve poured a new concrete driveway, removed a wood deck, poured a patio, installed a swingset, re-landscaped the whole yard… not a peep from the HOA. Sometimes they are unobtrusive.
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PugetDude said:
I'm willing to pay HOA fees for gated entry and private roads, as it really limits the traffic. Maybe it's just security theater, but we haven't had any issues with theft, graffiti, or vandalism in the six years we have lived here. Surrounding communities with public roads... just drive through and you can feel the difference.
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I have friends in one. Should have been a simple thing to satisfy subdivision requirements for the state, but somebody copied the covenants from somewhere (the Internet?) and dragged in a bunch of BS that the local "expert" tries to twist and enforce.

In reality it's a meaningless **** show that is constantly on the verge of violating state law. We've got enough information saved up that we could easily get it disbanded and if my suspicions turn out to be correct someone will probably face charges.

So if they ever hassle my friends it's gonna get really interesting...
 
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mike93lx

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RalphInCA said:
Glad to hear it.

I however, and many millions like me, do.
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That's great. And I am glad you have a choice to live in a HOA. I am in no way, shape or form telling you that your decision is bad, better or worse than mine. I am not trying to convince you to change your mind and there is no point on you trying to change mine.

Again, they are great for people that want to live in them. I am not one of those people
 
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johninct

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If I lived in a HOA, I would be getting a fine every day. A friend and I were talking, he showed me his assessment and was proud of how high it was. I then told him how hard I worked and court effort to to get my assessment down.
 
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amgent57

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I've owned two winter homes in FL,
where being in an HOA is common because of outdoor maintenance.

One experience was ok, one was not.
You just have to resign yourself to there being some frustrations.
 
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demarpaint

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We're going through the same thing here. Since there is really no one to regulate an HOA the prices can rise quickly and cause problems as a result. I heard too many horror stories which has us rethinking things.
 
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