Holmes on Homes

[cjcrazy8]

Opinions?

This subject came up in the Bunker thread and I did not want to hijack it any further. The show can be frustrating to watch for us in the industry.

Pros:
Seems smart, knows what he is doing
Wants to do it the right way the first time. Which I agree with and think is great.

Cons:
He is Canadian (no offense to the Canucks) - Canadian TV shown in US - Code requirements in Canada are not quite as stringent as US code, and they both vary due to climate, soil, seismic, waste, life safety, etc, requirements.

The way he badmouths every other contractor except his crew, one would think he is the only competent person out there. He never addresses the timeline of the original renovation. ie: What code changes took place during that period? Was it contsructed per common practices of the industry? Just because it wasnt done his way doesnt mean it was done incorrectly.

I dont want to have to preface every meeting with a client with " Im cjcrazy8 and I religiously watch and adhere to the practices of Holmes on Homes."

FWIW.

 

[SARG]

It is a TV show.
It is fantasy.
It is entertaining to watch as intended.

 

[PCO6]

Code requirements in Canada are not quite as stringent as US code

In what respects? Just curious.

 

[Jazz]

I've learned a lot from the show honestly. I definitely don't agree with everything he says or the way he does everything, but also you have to take into consideration that these are all the worst cases out there. The people he's helping have tried to resolve the problems unsuccessfully. That kinda makes it easy to say "Gut it. Down to the studs." because it's obvious things weren't done right and impossible to see how bad things really are.

I do think most of the bad work was done during the housing boom by fly by night contractors. A legit businessman knows he can't afford to redo jobs over and over and a bad reputation can hurt business. Still though, I know of at least three people who have been the victims of shody work and one of them is a $600,000 home that was new construction. If they were a little wiser they might not have had the problems. The show at least makes people think they need to arm themselves with more information and not always trust. Basically "buyer beware".

 

[Shadowdog500]

Opinions?

This subject came up in the Bunker thread and I did not want to hijack it any further. The show can be frustrating to watch for us in the industry.

Pros:
Seems smart, knows what he is doing
Wants to do it the right way the first time. Which I agree with and think is great.

Cons:
He is Canadian (no offense to the Canucks) - Canadian TV shown in US - Code requirements in Canada are not quite as stringent as US code, and they both vary due to climate, soil, seismic, waste, life safety, etc, requirements.

The way he badmouths every other contractor except his crew, one would think he is the only competent person out there. He never addresses the timeline of the original renovation. ie: What code changes took place during that period? Was it contsructed per common practices of the industry? Just because it wasnt done his way doesnt mean it was done incorrectly.

I dont want to have to preface every meeting with a client with " Im cjcrazy8 and I religiously watch and adhere to the practices of Holmes on Homes."

FWIW.

I doubt that he would be called in to redo one of your jobs, or any other respectable tradesmans jobs.

The way I see it he only gets called in when the contractor screws up bigtime. I also bet they screen the jobs he does on TV so that only the really bad stuff winds up on the show to keep the ratings up. Ive seen some pretty shabby/dangerous/ scary stuff that he found.

Chris

 

[mjozefow]

He shows the worst of the worst and fixes it right. I don't always agree with his methods, but at the end of the day the family has a nice home, where they did not before.

 

[woody 73]

What turns me off in a big way is when he starts to badmouth every contractor; I was taught if you don't have anything good too say,then just don't say anything.

Word gets around very fast who to trust and who to stay away from ,no need to make things worse...

 

[dirttracker18]

There was a show that explained how the show started (very interesting story actually) and how they pick the houses they do.
Yes it is the worst of the worst and that is the point really. Someone paid someone else to do the work for them and that contractor screwed them, intentionally or not.
The codes here really don't change that often so I am not sure about that comment and Holmes has done houses in the US on his show so he is up to speed on some US codes as well.

As someone else stated, he likely would never be in to gut one of your homes as you likely do your job well.

My uncle is a contractor in S. Ontario and he hates the way Holmes runs down contractors. However, I think he (Holmes) is very realistic in his criticisms of others work. He also does not mention the contractors name and in most case the critisim is warranted. Most of what he shows for bad workmanship is very obvious stuff even to a laymen.

The whole point to the show from Holmes view is that contractors should be accountable for their work. A homeowner should not have to sue when bad work is done only to have the judge tell the contractor he must go back and fix it. Who wants that guy back in their home? Or worse, have the judge award money only to have the guys close his business and reopen the next day under a new name (happens all the time).

Good contractors should not have to worry about this show but could/should use the show as a means to justify their cost vs a much cheaper contractor (ie, better quality products, top quality craftmanship, correct permits).

Just my opinion but I would think this should help reputable contractors out when they get out bid by some fly by night operation.

What do you think?

 

[scottzilla]

I think he teeters on the fence.
On the one hand he appeals to homeowners by making them feel protected.
On the other hand, contractors should view him as a freind, not foe, for showing just how involved doing a job right is, and can therefore justify their prices.
The construction industry earned the reputaion it has, let's not forget this.

 

[JohnJL]

I used his company to do my home inspection. They were very thorough and provided lots of documentation that assisted in negotiating the final deal.

I had less luck with his recommended HVAC contractor...was too busy to return calls and wasnt interested in my work.

 

[mjozefow]

Contractors mess stuff up all the time. There are good ones, but also a ton of hacks. I have fixed more s*** work that a customer has paid someone else to do than I like to think about.

For the record, my dad is a contractor and I run a handyman business at school in WL IN.

 

[Holt]

Holmes doesn't bad mouth every contractor that has worked on the houses he has gutted. Many times during the inspection or demo he would say looked like the tiler or the drywall guys know what they where doing but the rest of the job looked like ****. Also there are full episodes where there was very little done wrong by the contractor (workmanship) and most of the issues where caused by cheap products bought by the contractors. He also shows the faults in minimum code and how a house can be build using these methods and how it will fail in X amount of years and why.

Of course every house is a last resort for the home owner. Doesn't make good tv to go in and pull up tile and lay ditra down and move on. I've learned a lot from watching and a far as US vs Canadian code. Not sure what you mean. Problem with us code is its pretty hard to interpret and every county has its on way of doing things. Weather -Soil -etc. One thing I will give Canada for is the no climbable railings. Never even though about that until I saw holmes. Hell theres a cookie cutter neighborhood around here that does that for all there deck. No way for me. I don't have a kid but I have a nephew and I would be scared to have any climbable railings in my house with him around.

All in All
I'm not a contractors so it is very informative for me.
If your a contractor is a just a good show to watch and say "been there, done that")
I'm not perfect. Shows me what I did wrong, Why it wont work, and How to fix.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Good contractors should not have to worry about this show but could/should use the show as a means to justify their cost vs a much cheaper contractor (ie, better quality products, top quality craftmanship, correct permits).
QUOTE]

Good point! I never shop for price, I shop for quality. I find the top guy/ vender with the best reputation and pay what he asks. I have never been burned. They show up when they say they will and usually do the job better than I ever imagined.

If you shop for the cheapest guy you can find you shouldnt be suprised when you get ****** work or have to chase the guy down to get him to show up.

When you actually look at the price difference between quality tradesman (excluding the bums), the guys with the best reputation arent that much more when compared to the money you are spending.

Chris

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I really like the show.

Way too many people don't want anyone knowledgable to ever review their work, much less critisize it. As long as it's hidden, they figure they are good to go.

You should always think about what the next guy that looks at your work is going to think. That may be 50 years from now. That may be in 5-minutes. Either way, if you aren't comfortable with what he may think about the job you've done...you probably aren't doing a good job.

I think that like that. I suppose a lot of people do.

Phil

 

[JohnJL]

I was taught if you don't have anything good too say,then just don't say anything.

Word gets around very fast who to trust and who to stay away from ,no need to make things worse...

If everyone followed your advice then word would never get around who to trust and who not to trust!

Whether in business or personal dealings I feel there is a responsibility to warn others when you feel you've been screwed (after giving the other party fair chance to respond.) Keeping silent implicates you morally in the next person's screwing.

 

[Gottspd]

I love the show. As a non-construction industry person, I've learned a lot and I'm often horrified at what he finds. I often challenge myself by thinking would I intuitively known to do it that way? It's one of my favorite HGTV shows!

 

[SuperSocket]

If you have watched the show and watched how gross the violations are from the previous contractors, some of them which can result in fatalities... then YES, by all means BASH the contractor, expose them, show the world for what they are.


I'm sorry, I guess I'm one of those few who have little sympathy for bad contractors who risks not only their jobs, but the people who live in these homes. People are putting trust into their contractor, putting a lot of money forth, and they get a **** job... they deserve better.



Mike Holmes does praise some contractors and some job sites, but he will give you a piece of his mind when it comes to bad work.

 

[billspit]

What turns me off in a big way is when he starts to badmouth every contractor; I was taught if you don't have anything good too say,then just don't say anything.

But many of the contractors he is showing should be in prison. These people, who he never identifies, should be getting more than badmouthing. Have you seen some of the wiring down on these shows? It's a nightmare and dworight dangerous. That is why he often takes it all back to scratch. How about the show where the contractor stapled moisture barrier only at the floor to make it look like it was under the whole wall. Same with a shower pan.

One point he constantly stresses is code is a MINIMUM requirement it still is not being met (on his shows).

 

[Holt]

For any contractors out there worried about the reputation of the industry I have to say this. I don't do construction but I go into peoples houses as a in house tech for a service industry. We have a lot of bad techs out there and have left customers with issues not resolved or questionable work. Next tech goes in and and leaves with same outcome. I do my job with pride. I follow a last man out procedure. If I'm the 3rd, 4th, 5th, + person out there. It doesn't matter when I leave the job or not and If I know I fixed the issue the customer will not have faith. All I do is leave with smile and a hand shake and good customer service. It going to be years down the road when that person says . "Dam this had held up good"

Let your work speak for itself and later down the road when that persons friend needs some work they will look to you for it.

 

[dirttracker18]

It is a TV show.
It is fantasy.
It is entertaining to watch as intended.

I should add a couple of other pieces to his defense.

In the first couple of years of the show he paid money out of his own pocket to cover items that he thought necessary but the show and/or sponsors would not cover (Somewhere in the neighbourhood of $40 000 the first year IIRC)

Most of the guys he brings in volunteer their services and time to help these families out.

At one point he went to look at a house that had a second story addition put on. He went back to the network and told them the entire house needed to come down as it was too dangerous to try and fix. The network refused to build a new house on their dime. Holmes told them that if they don't build this family a new house he will never do another episode again. They built the house.

He was never in this for the money but to try to clean up the industry that pays his bills. He was tired of crappy contractors ruining the reputation of the good ones. He is likely now making great money because of the show, but that was not the intention when he started.

 

[draglink]

I used to like the show, I watched a few episodes, now I feel he really comes across as smug and arrogant. On the other hand I think he really knows his stuff

dont watch anymore

 

[V-10 Killer]

I enjoy watching his show, I learn a lot of things NOT to do. For example, I'm starting a bathroom remodel soon, and he's got a lot of good examples of how to properly water-tite. It's hard to find good examples for the d-i-y'er without paying (books, websites, dvd's all want $19.99...)
Granted though, nobody could do what he does simply because we don't have unlimited budgets. I appreciate the comment about the doorknob specialist, there's really some truth in that...
GC's can't expect to get a job if they have to tell a homeowner that they're going to bring in 10 specialists that all want paid, and hopefully won't find anything they need to work on. This is especially true the smaller the job gets. I'm all for "making it right", but some times, "good enough to get by" just has to work on limited budgets.

 

[Grinder Bill]

I dont want to have to preface every meeting with a client with " Im cjcrazy8 and I religiously watch and adhere to the practices of Holmes on Homes."

Why not...?

On the other hand, during one show Holmes mentioned that a (crappy) contractor did just that; used his name saying he worked for Holmes when he didn't.

One would think that a competent contractor would welcome an educated and informed client. Given the poor control by both government and the industry itself, I would welcome the idea of a "Holmes Approved" contractor certification.

 

[z28snksknr]

It's better than 95% of the garbage on HGTV showing guys making furniture out of scrap plywood.and felt. It's one of the rare shows on TV that keeps some useful information on home construction at the forefront and educates the public on how to not get screwed by a contractor.

Flip side, my wife can't stand him posturing and proclaiming himself as the savior of all who have been wronged. I watch to learn about good construction techniques - that gets easier when you see examples of poor construction.

 

[kmacht]

My only complaint with the show is that it would be nice if he were to give some costs relative to doing it his way vs doing it the way it was done. How much extra money is it to spray foam a garage ceiling vs using batts? How much more does it cost for detra (sp?) under tile vs just putting down some cement board, etc. At least that way homeowners who were looking for work done to his standards would know the cost difference.

Keith

 

[dirttracker18]

I think he does that on a number of occasions, esspcially the spray foam on garage ceiling of an attached garage with room above it.

Explains added about 30% to the job but will insulate much better and feel warmer, which homeowners say it does

 

[Falcon67]

I enjoy the show. I can also see where HoH could create a bit of a "Barrett-Jackson"* problem for contractors. Yes, you could use Holmes to help support your pricing - fixing stuff cost bucks when you hire it out. But if the customer is an HoH fan, they are going to expect nearly total perfection for whatever price and if the contractor falls short even a little - and maybe even things that have to be left because they are outside the scope of work - the work could be labeled "bad".

*"Barrett-Jackson" problem - my beater under the pecan tree is now rare and worth $35000 because I saw one just like it get sold on TV.

 

[AdamH]

I was just commenting on this show to my gf and I said I don't know why he doesn't fully expose the previous contractors. For some of the dangerous things I think it should be shown that Contractor XYZ quoted such and such for x amount of money and this is what was delivered. Not only would it be a heads up to anyone who may use that contractor in the future it would also be good to see that maybe the original quote had some red flags in it that could have been seen in the first place before moving forward, like grossly under quoted or wrong materials spec'ed etc.

 

[cjcrazy8]

I am not saying that he is incorrect in bashing the guy that did the crappy job, I am saying the delivery of the bashing comes across as every guy except his guys does a crappy job.

The code issue: I know little about Canadian Code, but I know very well that code in the US varies greatly from state to state and from state to national code. Code in the US is updated every few years depending on the state and trade type. So when code issues or requirements are mentioned on the show without clarifying that codes vary with location and time, those who are not contractors assume that the code mentioned is universal.

I probably should have not used the word "stringent" when addressing Canadian vs US code. Variance would be better.

I am currently working in the commercial industry but have a strong background in the residential industry. So the show does not directly affect me, but I have strong ties with qualified residential contractors who have had to sit down with a client or two to address reality vs HoH.

I also have experience with two track home builders who have since closed thier doors. One due to quality issues, cutting corners and poor craftsmanship who I have known since going to grade school with thier children. One is currently in jail, due to imbezzelment and fraud, which was a byproduct of the same quality issues as the other.

 

[GarageEnvy]

Along the lines of what Kmacht was saying I do sometimes wish the before and after were apples to apples comparisons. A homeowner tells the contractor I've got $10k to do this remodel and in a lot of cases you'll here him say, "it does meet minimum code." Then he comes in and rips it all out and puts in the best of the best. Was the problem the contractor or the budget vs. scope of work. I will say that in many cases some of the work is so shockingly bad it's hard to imagine how anyone could leave another person's house in an unsafe and dangerous condition and then charge or even sue them for money owed.

 

[pumalex]

i beleive this is only good for good contractors as some others said, you can justify the cost if the home owner wants a "Holmes" type of job. Also, people will be more educated at how it should be done and what should not be done. For example, if you hire an electrician and realise he puts junction boxes behind drywall, you know you need to fire him and find a better one. Most people probably didn't know this was illegal and would have looked at their contractor work and not a say a word.

I beleive it is too much of a show and would like it to be even more technical, sometimes they give some tips but they move on so quickly... I know he isn't a lover of DIYer so he doesn't say too much so peope don't go and start making it on their own. Too bad but i guess he is working for his industry...

 

[TheGrooveking]

I think there should be a show called "Homer on Homes", now that would be commical...

TheGrooveking

 

[creativecars]

1st- Its for TV.
2nd- Its for TV.

I like the show, but I wish he would not spend sooo much time bashing others and patting himself on the back saying “Why Me”.

Why, because you are making a lot of money to be on TV, otherwise you would be like every other quality contractor. I think it is interesting that you can see he has more time and money to spend working out in the gym in the later episodes than in the early ones. Don’t tell me it all about doing quality work, show producers know where the money is, and should be spent. Not much different than Senior on OCC.

I understand he is showing poor quality/illegal work, but I could do without all the drama. There is a difference from seeing poor work that was done years ago vs. new construction. Also he does not seem to understand that things were once done differently than what is now the current standard. I really appreciate the way Scott McGillivray goes about the same types of things, without the Why Me and all the other drama… not into soap operas

My house was built in 1927 and has had lots of work done in the years since. Right or wrong, I guarantee if someone was remodeling something in the 1930 they would come up with a more creative way of fixing something than to just say “Gut It”. Times were tough and they did the best they could with what they had. To say gut it in those days would have been asinine. The structure is still standing today and to badmouth what they did in the 30’s does not impress me much. Holmes should be mature enough to understand that. Maybe he should spend more time understanding history than posturing and working out.

Back to the good part.
The show does a very good job show casing current building standards, equipment, materials, and designs. I like that part very much.

 

[PCO6]

I probably should have not used the word "stringent" when addressing Canadian vs US code. Variance would be better.

We have what's called the National Building Code of Canada. It is adopted by the Provinces which are in charge of regulating construction. They in turn make them specific to their Province. The Ontario Building Code would be similar to but not the same as for example the British Columbia Building Code. They might differ to address some of the things you highlighted in your original post (climate, soil, etc.).

 

[BBQ&Love]

my beater under the pecan tree

I read that and thought "this guy has to be from Texas. Looked to the left and sure enough!

 

[justanengineer]

I have picked up a few tricks watching his show and both love it and respect it. I think on shows like this you have to watch more with your eyes and less with your ears to pick up on things, but thats just me. Some things I dont agree with (spray foam insulation for one), but I tend to see things from different perspectives due to my career choice. They do nice looking work, but do take the typical contractor shortcuts in places IMHO. The houses I see on the show look like many of the typical houses I see being renovated, nothing special.

Regarding contractor bashing, I will proudly stand up and admit to it, and think it needs to be done more. Not to offend anyone, but contractors tend to be like 99% of the trades today - cheap, lazy, undereducated/underskilled, and overpriced. Most things simply shouldnt need work in a house within the original owner's lifetime and unfortunately homeowners today simply do not know better.

 

[Eagle Point]

I think we can all learn a few tips from watching the show. I agree at times he comes off as a bit arrogant but it is for the camera I guess. What they should do is a follow-up program where they hire the butchers that did the hack work and bust them on camera. This may stop some of these guys from ripping off the next family.

 

[jktruck150]

My .02 cents:

Good:
It shows most homeowners what to watch for when you hire a contractor. Which is why I still watch it.
It does show how some contractors have cut corners or just do bad work.
It does show how to correctly do some things.

Bad:
Since he doesn't talk price...his renovation (to quote 'do it right') would probably cost much more than the homeowners original budget. I think that most contractors should consider budget every job they do. Having said that, there is bad work on the show for sure, but some things he said was bad work...really wasn't; it just wasn't how he would have done it. Given the budget of the homeowner, the original contractor probably did the right thing, at that time, for that budget. Then Mike comes in a says he is a crappy contractor - I don't agree with that.

Also a positive thing is that at least you know the work you see on his show...is mostly correct. One show I watched on DIY was/is horrible. They screw things up all the time (like screwing 1/2 drywall into a drop-ceiling . Then you see it fall later in the episode.) Surprise, surprise.

 

[creativecars]

I think we can all learn a few tips from watching the show. I agree at times he comes off as a bit arrogant but it is for the camera I guess. What they should do is a follow-up program where they hire the butchers that did the hack work and bust them on camera. This may stop some of these guys from ripping off the next family.

Absolutely, especially when they have put enough new wire in to look like it was done correctly. If they are just poor contractors that’s one thing, but to know you are doing something illegal, rip into them, and have the law there to cart them off too.
As with many of the shows now, show me more work, tools, materials, equipment and leave the drama for the soap operas.

 

[Falcon67]

I read that and thought "this guy has to be from Texas. Looked to the left and sure enough!

I have one under a pecan and one under a mesquite - west Texas choices!