Home Inspector strikes again Vol 3

[penright]

I got my Treatments, Repairs and Replacements. It's an Oklahoma real estate thing. My question is what does the NEC say about this situation .....

"The 60 amp circuit breakers in the heat pumps electrical disconnect box are oversized. The manufacture of the heat pump lists the maximum breaker size at 25 amps. The oversized breakers need to be replaced."

The breaker in the panel is 50amp. I just replaced the FP with a brand new Eaton, by a licensed electrician. Should I replace the breaker with a true disconnect ? http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-60-Amp-240-Volt-Non-Fuse-Metallic-AC-Disconnect-TFN60RCP/100674085

Also, there was mention in a existing "flush mount" sub panel, wires entering the panel did not have cable clamps or bushing. In googling I found something that looked like it was split and snapped into the hole, like you can do from inside the box. What is this called? I could not find any, assuming they are ok, I may have to find them at the local supply. The sheet rock is unfinished, I can pull it down and remove and replace the wires. Just it would be a lot more work.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I had a similar thing here at work. My AHU is in a crawl space with a 125A disconnect, but 60A at the panel. The electricians did not want to let me power it back up after some rewiring, saying the breaker was oversized. I felt like we were speaking two different languages: I was saying that the 60A breaker protected everything and he was saying that the 125 breaker didn't protect the line feeding it or something like that, and something about if the other breaker didn't work. My view is we simply rely on breakers working and ultimately he said it was just their policy. But the 125 is still in place.

Personally I wouldn't want a 60A breaker in each spot. I want all of the OCP functionality to be centered in the panel, not maybe here and maybe there.

 

[sberry]

How big are the wires going to the pump?

 

[AntonLargiader]

... Should I replace the breaker with a true disconnect ? http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-60-Amp-240-Volt-Non-Fuse-Metallic-AC-Disconnect-TFN60RCP/100674085

$7, wow. That'd be a cheap fix, not counting your time.

EDIT: if the upstream breaker is correct.

 

[alfredeneuman]

A fusible 30Amp disconnect with 25Amp dual element fuses is all that's needed, rather than a 25Amp breaker which are as rare as hen's teeth and is a special order item.

 

[Trey T]

Guys: It looks like he got the job done but he's curious about the NEC's guidance, in quotation.

 

[AntonLargiader]

He's asking for advice on two items.

 

[theoldwizard1]

How big are the wires going to the pump?

Good point ?

Is a fused disconnect required by NEC or can it be non-fused (assuming all wire from heat pump/A/C back to the load center is the same size and kind) ?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The first thing we need to see is the nameplate on the unit.

Can u post a pic of the nameplate?

Why would you question his sort of authority over a 30 dollar fix?
Pick your battles carefully.
Fix it, he signs off, then fight it if you feel slighted.

A home inspector has little authority and is different than a building inspector. Often times home inspectors dont even have a clue as to what the code is.

 

[Stuff]

The outside disconnect box is normally just a disconnect and not an over current protection device. It can be rated at 1000 amps as long as the breaker in the panel feeding it is sized per the nameplate on the heat pump itself.

If the unit states 25 amp then why did the electrician install a 50 in the new panel?

 

[CJ7VFR]

...Also, there was mention in a existing "flush mount" sub panel, wires entering the panel did not have cable clamps or bushing. In googling I found something that looked like it was split and snapped into the hole, like you can do from inside the box. What is this called? I could not find any, assuming they are ok, I may have to find them at the local supply. The sheet rock is unfinished, I can pull it down and remove and replace the wires. Just it would be a lot more work.

The push in/split type cable clamps you might be thinking of are installed from the outside of the box/panel. So even if you wanted to use them, you would technically have to remove the wire from the breaker, pull the cable out of the panel, install the cable clamp, and re-install the cable and wire to the breaker. So might as well use a better type of cable clamp.

However, I have used these push in/split cable clamps on a few j-boxes I have found in my house, where the previous owner never installed a clamp, and I wanted to protect the cables from chafing until I fixed it permanently with a real metal clamp.

I take one of the push in/split clamps, open up the "fingers" on it that are supposed to hold the cable tight, open up the split part of the clamp, and slide it over the cable. Then I push the clamp into the box.

This is not a "real" fix, but it does the job of protecting the cable from damage from the edges of the box/panel, and I make sure that the cable is secured with some type of staple 8 inches from the box/panel.

I get mine at Home Depot. They come in different sizes for knockouts, as well as different quantities, like a few or a jar of 100, which I have shown.

Jim

 

[CJ7VFR]

...Show good faith, fix it.
Make the sale easy.

This is the best way to go. The last thing you want to do is loose a sale of a house over an easy fix for a few bucks. Compare that to keeping the house a while longer and having to pay more mortgage payments, more property taxes, more electric bills, more water bills, more of everything for a few more months until you find another buyer.

Jim

 

[mike in tucson]

Since the Home Inspector is paid by the buyer, the inspector is obligated to find things "wrong", otherwise he has a problem justifying his fee. In the past, I have sold two houses "as is" and the buyer on one didn't require the inspection. On the other, I gave the buyer a "fix it" budget of $500 to let the buyer "fix it to his satisfaction" and let the buyer pay for the fix. Home inspection is a scam, just like clear coating sprayed by the car dealer.

 

[bjcouche]

To answer your question, Yes, these are code violations, but the inspectors resolution description is poor. The disconnect box is ok to have a 60A breaker being used as a disconnect. However then the 50A breaker in the main panel needs to be changed out for a 25A or smaller. If it were me I'd use a 20A breaker as 25A breakers are made of unobtanium. I would still change the 60A breaker disconnect box out for a nonfused disconnect box, not because code required it, but because it would be cheap and easier than having to explain the NEC to the buyer and or home inspector.
The missing cable clamps are also a NEC violation. I've heard of the type of approved clamp that can be installed from the inside, but I am not familiar with them.
Brian

 

[Falcon67]

... On the other, I gave the buyer a "fix it" budget of $500 to let the buyer "fix it to his satisfaction" and let the buyer pay for the fix. Home inspection is a scam, just like clear coating sprayed by the car dealer.

For about half that you could have bought them a decent 12 month home warranty.

 

[Cmreschke]

Wait til home inspectors learn about selective coordination. Lol

 

[alfredeneuman]

Wait til home inspectors learn about selective coordination. Lol

They likely will never learn.

 

[alfredeneuman]

You might want to contact the "electrician" that made this mess and have him fix it, if you just recently replaced the panel, and the unit was already there

 

[BADSIX]

The outside disconnect box is normally just a disconnect and not an over current protection device. It can be rated at 1000 amps as long as the breaker in the panel feeding it is sized per the nameplate on the heat pump itself.

If the unit states 25 amp then why did the electrician install a 50 in the new panel?

this is how they did mine, just a disconnect. passed elect. inspection
Jay D.

 

[Radix2]

This style of Romex clamp can be installed from the inside and without removing wires.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

A fusible 30Amp disconnect with 25Amp dual element fuses is all that's needed, rather than a 25Amp breaker which are as rare as hen's teeth and is a special order item.

25a breakers are sitting on the shelf at lowes,nothing to special order.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

I got my Treatments, Repairs and Replacements. It's an Oklahoma real estate thing. My question is what does the NEC say about this situation .....

"The 60 amp circuit breakers in the heat pumps electrical disconnect box are oversized. The manufacture of the heat pump lists the maximum breaker size at 25 amps. The oversized breakers need to be replaced."

The breaker in the panel is 50amp. I just replaced the FP with a brand new Eaton, by a licensed electrician. Should I replace the breaker with a true disconnect ? http://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-60-Amp-240-Volt-Non-Fuse-Metallic-AC-Disconnect-TFN60RCP/100674085

Also, there was mention in a existing "flush mount" sub panel, wires entering the panel did not have cable clamps or bushing. In googling I found something that looked like it was split and snapped into the hole, like you can do from inside the box. What is this called? I could not find any, assuming they are ok, I may have to find them at the local supply. The sheet rock is unfinished, I can pull it down and remove and replace the wires. Just it would be a lot more work.

Post a picture of sub panel.

 

[mm08822]

"The 60 amp circuit breakers in the heat pumps electrical disconnect box are oversized. The manufacture of the heat pump lists the maximum breaker size at 25 amps. The oversized breakers need to be replaced."
The breaker in the panel is 50amp. I just replaced the FP with a brand new Eaton, by a licensed electrician.

A fusible 30Amp disconnect with 25Amp dual element fuses is all that's needed, rather than a 25Amp breaker which are as rare as hen's teeth and is a special order item.

The outside disconnect box is normally just a disconnect and not an over current protection device. It can be rated at 1000 amps as long as the breaker in the panel feeding it is sized per the nameplate on the heat pump itself.
If the unit states 25 amp then why did the electrician install a 50 in the new panel?

The disconnect box is ok to have a 60A breaker being used as a disconnect. However then the 50A breaker in the main panel needs to be changed out for a 25A or smaller…….25A breakers are made of unobtanium.

You might want to contact the "electrician" that made this mess and have him fix it, if you just recently replaced the panel, and the unit was already there

If the wire from panel to disconnect is #6 cu, then 50a would be fine for the main panel. If that wiring is smaller, then cb has to be downsized to match wire and could even be 25a. What size was there originally?

As long as there is a 25a breaker somewhere else in the circuit, it then meets the stated mfr requirements for ac equipment protection.

Any disconnect type device (fused, non-fused, breaker) that is rated for the load is acceptable.

My Home Depot carries 2p 25a in BR and CH obtainium series. It does not however carry hen’s teeth or chicken toes.
zmax has similar success in striking obtanium.

I have never changed a breaker size in a panel changeout/service upgrade from original as found IF the breaker rating agreed with wire size connected to it. If it didn't, for an ac circuit, I would have investigated further. So if there was a 50a in the old FPE with #6 cu attached, I would have put a 50a back in.

The non-compliance of the 25a ocp in that ckt would be a pre-existing code violation created by others. Would I have corrected that if known upfront, yes, but it is out of scope to survey the entire house for code violations for just a panel changeout/service upgrade.

 

[penright]

Sorry it took so long to get back. I went over to the old house as soon as I got off work. Besides electrical, I got loaded up. It is going to be a VA loan, so I still have to sweat the appraiser.
In the interest of space I am not going to quote the question to give context to my answer. I hope all questions will be answered.
1. To those that said "don't let a few bucks blow the deal". Don't worry I was always going to fix it, just curious the best way. I have learned a lot.
2. My internet at the house is dog slow right now. Let me post some pictures in the morning.

Mean while, bottom line, the spec plate did say 25amp. I think once I post the pictures, the wire is bigger than 25amp. I think it looks big enough for the 50amp. Also, the outside breaker box is a FP. So the best fix is to replace the breaker box with a 25amp, then a 8$ disconnect outside. I hope 25amp is not so close that this summer after running it pops. If it was me I would think the 30amp would be better, but the paper said 25 so 25 it is.

I hope after posting the pictures you guy's can confirm that the new box is a BR style breakers. If so, then the 50 I pull can be used in the new shop if needed. Also, our local Lowes does not have one in stock, but I can have one shipped to the store.
So let me post the pictures that I have and see if they confirm my thoughts.

 

[mm08822]

Sorry it took so long to get back. I went over to the old house as soon as I got off work. Besides electrical, I got loaded up. It is going to be a VA loan, so I still have to sweat the appraiser.
In the interest of space I am not going to quote the question to give context to my answer. I hope all questions will be answered.
1. To those that said "don't let a few bucks blow the deal". Don't worry I was always going to fix it, just curious the best way. I have learned a lot.
2. My internet at the house is dog slow right now. Let me post some pictures in the morning.

Mean while, bottom line, the spec plate did say 25amp. I think once I post the pictures, the wire is bigger than 25amp. I think it looks big enough for the 50amp. Also, the outside breaker box is a FP. So the best fix is to replace the breaker box with a 25amp, then a 8$ disconnect outside. I hope 25amp is not so close that this summer after running it pops. If it was me I would think the 30amp would be better, but the paper said 25 so 25 it is.

I hope after posting the pictures you guy's can confirm that the new box is a BR style breakers. If so, then the 50 I pull can be used in the new shop if needed. Also, our local Lowes does not have one in stock, but I can have one shipped to the store.
So let me post the pictures that I have and see if they confirm my thoughts.

Confirm the actual wire size first at the main panel. The wire range of the CH 25a is good thru #6 but CHF is only good thru #10. BR - didn't look.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sorry it took so long to get back. I went over to the old house as soon as I got off work. Besides electrical, I got loaded up. It is going to be a VA loan, so I still have to sweat the appraiser.
In the interest of space I am not going to quote the question to give context to my answer. I hope all questions will be answered.
1. To those that said "don't let a few bucks blow the deal". Don't worry I was always going to fix it, just curious the best way. I have learned a lot.
2. My internet at the house is dog slow right now. Let me post some pictures in the morning.

Meanwhile, bottom line, the spec plate did say 25amp. I think once I post the pictures, the wire is bigger than 25amp. I think it looks big enough for the 50amp. Also, the outside breaker box is a FP. So the best fix is to replace the breaker box with a 25amp, then a 8$ disconnect outside. I hope 25amp is not so close that this summer after running it pops. If it was me I would think the 30amp would be better, but the paper said 25 so 25 it is.

I hope after posting the pictures you guy's can confirm that the new box is a BR style breakers. If so, then the 50 I pull can be used in the new shop if needed. Also, our local Lowes does not have one in stock, but I can have one shipped to the store.
So let me post the pictures that I have and see if they confirm my thoughts.

what matters here is what the nameplate on the unit says. The manu. has already done the calcs to figure out the sizing.

AC equipment is wired based on the MCA- minimum circuit ampacity and MOP- max overcurrent protection.

Example- if the MCA is 30a then u would use #10 wire and if the MOP is 40a then u would use a 40a breaker.

In your case it sounds like the MOP is 25a but u need to read the plate and verify this.

By FP do u mean fuse panel or federal pacific?

U dont need to worry about the breaker tripping @ 25a. The manu has done the calcs already and this is what is called for if thats what the nameplate says.

Yes the best fix is replace breaker with appropriate (listed) 25a breaker and replace disconnect with non fused pull out disconnect.

 

[penright]

I think I have to breaker it at the cut off. I need to find a 25amp breaker. When I was verifying the breaker, I had turned up the heat. The heat pump was running outside and when I shut the breaker off, both inside and outside shut off. Judging size of wires and all, I think the A/C breaker runs more than the compressor. So I think it is best to breaker/fuse at the disconnect.
There were some post that Home Depot /Lowes had some solutions.
Would you guy's mind posting some links?


Here are the photos ....

By FP do u mean fuse panel or federal pacific?

Federal Pacific
After looking at it, even if it was not Federal Pacific, I would do something.







Is this good enough to see the size of the wires.


Here is a look at the panel. Looking at it this morning the picture is not good. The arrow is pointing to the size of the wire.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I think I have to breaker it at the cut off. I need to find a 25amp breaker. When I was verifying the breaker, I had turned up the heat. The heat pump was running outside and when I shut the breaker off, both inside and outside shut off. Judging size of wires and all, I think the A/C breaker runs more than the compressor. So I think it is best to breaker/fuse at the disconnect.
There were some post that Home Depot /Lowes had some solutions.
Would you guy's mind posting some links?


Here are the photos ....





Federal Pacific
After looking at it, even if it was not Federal Pacific, I would do something.







Is this good enough to see the size of the wires.


Here is a look at the panel. Looking at it this morning the picture is not good. The arrow is pointing to the size of the wire.

What "inside" are you referring to? The furnace?

Do u have emergency backup heat strips? If so it should be on seperate breaker.

If this outside 60a panel feeds the inside unit, i dont see the wires.

That wire looks like #10 or #12 MTW which has thicker insulation. Its definitely NOT #6 or #8 which is multi-stranded.

MCA is 16a so u need #12 THWN and MOP is 25a so u need 25a breaker.

Remove 60a breaker panel replace with pull out disconnect.

Replace 50a breaker in panel with 25a.

 

[penright]

Yes the best fix is replace breaker with appropriate (listed) 25a breaker and replace disconnect with non fused pull out disconnect.

Here is the panel labels. As posting this I notice the AC is labeled twice. The one that I turned off last night was the "HVAC". When I did the blower inside turned off and I had to reset the date/time on the thermostat. That made me think it lost the low voltage.



I guess I need to go with my meter and do the tracing ...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Yeah as i said above, u will have 2 breakers for a heat pump setup- 1 for furnace and 1 for outside compressor.

So u need to replace the 50a breaker for the outside unit with a 25a and then remove that 60a panel and put in a pull out non fused disconnect.

Easy fix.

 

[Stuff]

From the inside panel it looks like it is a 30amp on the "a/c" breaker feeding the outside compressor and 50 amp on the "hvac" feeding the air handler and heat strips. So job is to replace the 30 with a 25. I think the installer didn't have a 25 on the truck and threw in a 30 to finish the job. The old 60 FP outside is legal but old and cheap to replace.

Also, why did the inspector not flag what looks like a siemens breaker for the dryer in that panel?

 

[penright]

Yeah as i said above, u will have 2 breakers for a heat pump setup- 1 for furnace and 1 for outside compressor.

So u need to replace the 50a breaker for the outside unit with a 25a and then remove that 60a panel and put in a pull out non fused disconnect.

Easy fix.

From the inside panel it looks like it is a 30amp on the "a/c" breaker feeding the outside compressor and 50 amp on the "hvac" feeding the air handler and heat strips. So job is to replace the 30 with a 25. I think the installer didn't have a 25 on the truck and threw in a 30 to finish the job. The old 60 FP outside is legal but old and cheap to replace.

Also, why did the inspector not flag what looks like a siemens breaker for the dryer in that panel?

I am wondering when I flip the breaker off, it killed the air handler, then that killed the low voltage, then that killed the thermostat and it shut then it shut the compressor off. I guess I need to go with my meter and check it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

From the inside panel it looks like it is a 30amp on the "a/c" breaker feeding the outside compressor and 50 amp on the "hvac" feeding the air handler and heat strips. So job is to replace the 30 with a 25. I think the installer didn't have a 25 on the truck and threw in a 30 to finish the job. The old 60 FP outside is legal but old and cheap to replace.

Also, why did the inspector not flag what looks like a siemens breaker for the dryer in that panel?

Good catch.

I couldnt read those numbers with how blurry they are.

I am wondering when I flip the breaker off, it killed the air handler, then that killed the low voltage, then that killed the thermostat and it shut then it shut the compressor off. I guess I need to go with my meter and check it.

Thats because the thermostat via the furnace sends low voltage (24v) power to the contactor in the outside unit/compressor when there is a call for heat or A/C. This is how it turns on and off.

The contactor has a 24v coil.

No mystery there.

On the breaker panel u only need to replace the 30a breaker with a 25a. DO NOT REPLACE THE 50a BREAKER. It runs the furnace.

 

[brewchief]

What size wire is feeding the outdoor unit? You might be able to simply replace the disconnect with a 30 amp fused unit with 25 amp fuses.

 

[penright]

The AC is handled. I texted the electrician that put the panel in, he is going to swap a 25amp for my 30. Also, the issue is Federal Pacific is breaker does not trip, since the circuit is protected by the Eaton breaker, I not worried about the FP not tripping.

I was looking at the HVAC breaker and got confused when I "tested" it. I went back tonight and opened the 30amp marked AC. Measured the voltage at the disconnect and confirm "as you all knew all along" that the 30amp was it. Thanks for the insight.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Sorry it took so long to get back. I went over to the old house as soon as I got off work. Besides electrical, I got loaded up. It is going to be a VA loan, so I still have to sweat the appraiser.
In the interest of space I am not going to quote the question to give context to my answer. I hope all questions will be answered.
1. To those that said "don't let a few bucks blow the deal". Don't worry I was always going to fix it, just curious the best way. I have learned a lot.
2. My internet at the house is dog slow right now. Let me post some pictures in the morning.

Mean while, bottom line, the spec plate did say 25amp. I think once I post the pictures, the wire is bigger than 25amp. I think it looks big enough for the 50amp. Also, the outside breaker box is a FP. So the best fix is to replace the breaker box with a 25amp, then a 8$ disconnect outside. I hope 25amp is not so close that this summer after running it pops. If it was me I would think the 30amp would be better, but the paper said 25 so 25 it is.

I hope after posting the pictures you guy's can confirm that the new box is a BR style breakers. If so, then the 50 I pull can be used in the new shop if needed. Also, our local Lowes does not have one in stock, but I can have one shipped to the store.
So let me post the pictures that I have and see if they confirm my thoughts.

Put a 25a 2 pole breaker in the severe panel inside house.
The outside is just a service disconnect for when it's being worked on,no need to change it.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Sorry it took so long to get back. I went over to the old house as soon as I got off work. Besides electrical, I got loaded up. It is going to be a VA loan, so I still have to sweat the appraiser.
In the interest of space I am not going to quote the question to give context to my answer. I hope all questions will be answered.
1. To those that said "don't let a few bucks blow the deal". Don't worry I was always going to fix it, just curious the best way. I have learned a lot.
2. My internet at the house is dog slow right now. Let me post some pictures in the morning.

Mean while, bottom line, the spec plate did say 25amp. I think once I post the pictures, the wire is bigger than 25amp. I think it looks big enough for the 50amp. Also, the outside breaker box is a FP. So the best fix is to replace the breaker box with a 25amp, then a 8$ disconnect outside. I hope 25amp is not so close that this summer after running it pops. If it was me I would think the 30amp would be better, but the paper said 25 so 25 it is.

I hope after posting the pictures you guy's can confirm that the new box is a BR style breakers. If so, then the 50 I pull can be used in the new shop if needed. Also, our local Lowes does not have one in stock, but I can have one shipped to the store.
So let me post the pictures that I have and see if they confirm my thoughts.

Look around in the breaker aisle,I've bought them here locally many times at lowes.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The AC is handled. I texted the electrician that put the panel in, he is going to swap a 25amp for my 30. Also, the issue is Federal Pacific is breaker does not trip, since the circuit is protected by the Eaton breaker, I not worried about the FP not tripping.

I was looking at the HVAC breaker and got confused when I "tested" it. I went back tonight and opened the 30amp marked AC. Measured the voltage at the disconnect and confirm "as you all knew all along" that the 30amp was it. Thanks for the insight.

Thats great.

Saves u $13 and a trip to the store.

Now if it makes u feel better, u could junk the FPE panel and put a $11 pull out disconnect in its place.

 

[walta]

Something seems wrong a 60 amp breaker would be a little big for a 5 ton unit.

The 25 amp number sounds like the min breaker for a 3 ton unit.

My guess is the inspector found a 60 amp breaker that powers the emergency heat strips and assumed it was the breaker for the heat pump.

I would also guess the 25 amp max breaker number is also an error.

What is the make and model number from the outdoor part of your system.

Walta

 

[penright]

Saves u $13 and a trip to the store.
u could junk the FPE panel and put a $11 pull out disconnect in its place

The electrician and I missed communicated, I thought he had one on his truck. He would have had to buy one. So I started googling, both Lowe's and Home Depot would have to have it shipped. I going to call a local supply and see if they have any in stock. Closing not till the 20th, so if I have to order one, no big deal. I still need to get bushing for sub panel anyway.

Something seems wrong a 60 amp breaker would be a little big for a 5 ton unit.
The 25 amp number sounds like the min breaker for a 3 ton unit.
My guess is the inspector found a 60 amp breaker that powers the emergency heat strips and assumed it was the breaker for the heat pump.
I would also guess the 25 amp max breaker number is also an error.
What is the make and model number from the outdoor part of your system.
Walta

Sorry that my post started confusing, it happen because I got confuse.
The inspector read everything right almost .... The plate in post 29 said max breaker 25amp. Also in the same post, the disconnect is 60amps (outside). So I see why he thought it was protected at 60amp. Actually, the panel breaker (inside) is 30amp. So basicly the panel will trip before the disconnect. Therefore the 60amp is basically a switch. I got confused looking at the label on the main panel, seeing AC, so to test I ramped up the thermostat so it kicked on the heat pump. Then I flip the breaker off and the compress stop.
So I thought it was the circuit. When I saw #10 on a 50amp breaker, I thought I had a mess. In hindsight the reason it stopped is because when I flipped the breaker, it cut power to the air handler, which drop the low voltage to both the thermostat and contactors. That why the heat pump stopped. Side note, that is why if you open a panel all ways checked voltage, don't assume. So last night I went back and checked with a meter that the AC 30amp is the breaker. Also I vacuumed all the spider webs and cleaned out the panel (outside). Tightened all the lugs, which I glad I did, one leg from the panel was loose.

Actually that breaker label is HVAC, that runs the air handler and aux heat. The one labeled AC is a 30amp, wire size is good, all is well. Since all the outside is to switch/disconnect. I am not depending on it for protection, so I am not worried about the brand. So again, swap the 30 for a 25 and it should be good.
Not only is it the right thing to do, I found out the home warranty I am buying for them would decline the claim when they discovered it was protected with the wrong size breaker.