Homemade electrolysis. What do you use?

[Outlawmws]

I'd go with 6V. 12 is faster 6 is easier on the steel.

 

[JeremyBurke]

I'd go with 6V. 12 is faster 6 is easier on the steel.

Got it thanks. The switch has been made. I noticed the amperage reading immediately dropped in half. Makes sense as that is what my meager EE skills told me should happen. We Mechanical engineers try to avoid these dark arts. But so far all the smoke is still in the wires. Hoping it stays that way.

Several have said to do it again if it isn't done. This may be a really stupid question but is "done" obvious?

 

[taumac]

Well, sort of. I've used mine for paint removal. I've havnt done much rust removal but I would run it say next following day when get home from work and check it. Brush it and rinse it off and see how it looks if rust not all removed next throw it back in for another day. That's at least what I would do being your running on a low setting.

Have a good one, Gerard

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[taumac]

Polarity is right, you should be fine.

Probably 4-6 hours with fresh clean anodes. As said, if not done, go again...

What power supply/voltage?

???? I'm curious. What settings did you use and how rusty was the piece. The quickest thing I've done is paint, bondo removed on a cheap China vise and that took min 24 hours on 10 amp 12v setting. Does rust removal quicker than paint?

Have a good one, Gerard

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[Outlawmws]

Reasonably obvious. The process is mostly line of site, so the insides may need some added elbow grease; the rust converts to a black iron deposit (from the sacrificial anodes) and brushes off with a stiff brush. I'll usually do that, then dry it and hit it lightly with a fine wire wheel, but that is seconds compared to what real rust takes.

I'd also recommend rubber gloves when scrubbing the black stuff off, its messy.

 

[Outlawmws]

???? I'm curious. What settings did you use and how rusty was the piece. The quickest thing I've done is paint, bondo removed on a cheap China vise and that took min 24 hours on 10 amp 12v setting. Does rust removal quicker than paint?

Have a good one, Gerard

Florida GJers ( FGJ)
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The 5 Stitches Garage
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The process is intended to remove rust. Paint removal is a by product. I've seen it peel right off in sheets, and I've seen it take a lot, and I've seen it only partly remove if at all. It really depends on the paint and how well it adhered.

 

[taumac]

The process is intended to remove rust. Paint removal is a by product. I've seen it peel right off in sheets, and I've seen it take a lot, and I've seen it only partly remove if at all. It really depends on the paint and how well it adhered.

Ok I follow. I mostly seen it on YouTube as a rust removal process but it also for paint but mainly rust.

Have a good one, Gerard

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The 5 Stitches Garage
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[JeremyBurke]

I'd go with 6V. 12 is faster 6 is easier on the steel.

Outlaw can you elaborate on what "easier in the steel" means? My dynamic jaws is back in the tank on the low setting for about 24 hrs per others suggestions. Thanks as always for sharing your knowledge and experience.

 

[Outlawmws]

I first got interested in electrolysis seeing it done by museums for artifacts. They always went low and slow to maximize the preservation of the artifacts. While these vises are not artifacts, even at 6V it's higher than they used. Some of those things would go for months to get cleaned up. Of course the items were often in much worse shape than vise parts get.

My understanding is that Hydrogen embrittlement is less at the lower setting as well. How much actually occurs is a question I can't answer, but I suspect its low compared to plating a part. I know steel parts that are chrome plated can get Hydrogen into the metal, and once in it will migrate to stress points and make it easier for a failure to occur. I have see it happen in real life:

A chrome plated axle housing broke on a race car while the driver/owner was doing hot laps. Right rear on a circle track car. The car spun backed into the wall and managed to burst the completely full fuel tank (This was before fuel cells were mandatory...). The resulting fire burned the driver horribly and he died a week later.

We know the housing failed as the following driver watched the housing and wheel walk off the car. It broke at the weld from where it was shortened. Thousands of these housings have been shortened over the decades. No one could remember seeing one fail like this and rarely even in hard crashes. Bent to hell and gone, yes, but not like this... But very few housings were plated either.

Does it matter here? I can't say for certain; I try to stay with "best practices", and listen to or watch the experts. YMMV.

 

[drivesitfar]

all good information as usual guys.

i'm curious if anvils should be sitting in Electrolysis tanks since they are built to rebound the hammers off the hot metal. i will stick to Simple Green on a rag with a nylon brush for basic dirt clean up and maybe WD 40 on a rag for rust or is an E bath ok for 150 year old anvils?

 

[taumac]

Great info outlaw, I remember posted somewhere that after e tanking a part you can bake it in oven to remove any hydrogen embrittlement that might occur during electrolysis.

Have a good one, Gerard

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[straightcut]

I've got a Wilton C1 that rusted stuck sitting on the back of a utility truck. I set up an e-tank using a tall waste basket with five rebar rods wired together with steel wire. I fired it up and ran in for 30 minutes using a 10 amp (no other settings) battery charger and noticed the charger was beginning to cycle (on/off) and noticed the charger and clamps were quite warm. I turned it off and switched to a second (HF) charger than I have, initually starting it at 12V 6 amp, then switched it to 12V 2 amp. It ran 40 minutes and I could smell a slight hot electrical smell before it shut down. I believe it cycled off and is not burned out.

Has anyone experienced hot chargers and what did you do? It stands to reason that there's plenty of resistance - what with steel, rust and water involved. Help, please!

 

[Outlawmws]

A couple of questions:

Are you using straight water, or did you add something to make the water an electrolyte?

Is the vise shorted to the rebar or the other connections?

 

[straightcut]

A couple of questions:

Are you using straight water, or did you add something to make the water an electrolyte?

Is the vise shorted to the rebar or the other connections?

I'm sorry, I should have addressed those points. I used 1-1/2 cups of baking soda in approx. 4-5 gallons of water. I made certain the vise is not shorted to the rebar (or connecting wires).

Might this overheating be caused by having a rebar rod too close to the vise (eg. iron oxide build-up between vise and rod)?

Also, if I shut the system down for one+ hours, is it best to remove the de-rusting item from the tank, flush it and dry it or just unplug - leave it be and fire it back up upon my return?

Thanks for any suggestions!

 

[Fretters]

The setup could literally just be drawing too much current for the charger to be comfortable with. You can either weaken the solution by diluting it with more water, remove some of the rods else enlarge the distance between the rods and piece. Any one of those should probably cure it. I'd personally just remove one rod from the mix and see how that goes.

Some of the more modern chargers are optimistic in their ratings, and won't run merrily if they're being run at full pelt. I have one here which has a weak thermal trip, and that one tends to cycle as it warms, well below it's supposed maximum rating.

If you're turning the setup off, leaving the part dunked in there for a few hours won't generally be a problem. I've tested it by leaving the odd part or two in there overnight, and you may get some ever so slight new rust formation, but nothing worthy of note and it'll merrily disappear once you turn the system back on.

 

[straightcut]

Thanks for the comments! Fretters, before you left your comments, I returned home and tried the 6V, 6amp setting. After half an hour, the charger was warm, but cooler and functioned perfectly. I ran it for 12 hours and the vise is looking much improved!

I should've been doing this for the past 20 years!

 

[Outlawmws]

Baking soda isn't my favorite solution, but it does work. You should only need maybe 1/4 cup though for 4-5 gallons. ( 0n fretters comment)

 

[Waggoner72]

What about using a trickle charger? 12v with .75 amps? Too little and take too long? That's the only charger I have right now besides a larger one that can only do 12v 6 amp at lowest.

 

[Fretters]

What about using a trickle charger? 12v with .75 amps? Too little and take too long?

That should be fine. I tend to limit most of my stuff to around 1A or so, regardless of size.

 

[Fretters]

This is an example of low running. Three parts of a vice just strung together with copper wire and only being supplied with 1.5A overall, or thereabouts.

You can tell by the lack of insane bubbling that they're running on low current, but they only likely need to be in there for 24 hours or so before they're ready, (dependant on just how deep/thick the rusting is). You honestly don't tend to notice a vast amount of difference in time between quite low and high current, so I always go with slow. The solution in there at the moment is actually caustic soda/lye, (when I punctured the liner the other month, I added that to speed up the process for the part which was in there at the time, and I simply haven't got around to changing the solution as yet), but normally I just tend to use bicarb.

 

[n8n]

How does the lye work for you? I'd think it'd help degrease, and given how hard it is to find washing soda, if there are no downsides I may try it when I run out.

Sent from my XT897 using Tapatalk

 

[Fretters]

Upto just, it's been fine. I've not noted any unwanted or unexpected effects from it. It appears just the same as when I was using bicarb, but with the slightly enhanced cleaning effect if there's any grease.

Whatever the little tadpole'y type things are in there seem happy enough with the caustic too. Don't know what they are, (I'm assuming some type of flying insect spawn), but I keep seeing a minute wriggler swimming around every now and then. One of the pleasures of having a vat outside, it seems.

 

[Waggoner72]

I've been running my makeshift electrolysis tank the past couple days since I last posted. I've been derusting a Wilton vise that I acquired. Here's my progress.

4 rebar held up straight with 2x4 with aluminum wire connecting them all

Vise before


After. It's a lot better than it looks. I sprayed it down with penetrating oil

After

 

[Fretters]

After. It's a lot better than it looks. I sprayed it down with penetrating oil

Cameras are devils for that, aren't they. You look at something in the flesh, so to speak, and it looks fine. Take a photo of it though and it looks like it's rusty. I've noticed the same on multiple occasions.

 

[Fretters]

Before:

After one night in the vat:

 

[Outlawmws]

Sure, get the gunky stuff all over Rosie!

 

[drivesitfar]

Fretters: nice job again. I think i heard you weren't able to get the jaws off prior to the E bath so were you able to after the bath?

thanks for sharing your newspaper so we can read the articles.

Waggoner: Frettters and others put linseed oil on the vise after the E bath to keep it from flash rusting and either wipe off or paint over it. are you going to paint over it or wipe it off first?

 

[Waggoner72]

Fretters: nice job again. I think i heard you weren't able to get the jaws off prior to the E bath so were you able to after the bath?



thanks for sharing your newspaper so we can read the articles.



Waggoner: Frettters and others put linseed oil on the vise after the E bath to keep it from flash rusting and either wipe off or paint over it. are you going to paint over it or wipe it off first?

I plan on painting mine but I haven't looked into what kind of paint people are using. Just Walmart rattle can? Also, what do you mean by painting over it? Wouldn't I have to wipe off the penetrating oil first so the paint would adhere.

 

[drivesitfar]

Waggoner: yes i'd think you would have to remove the oil before painting it and maybe also rough it up a little with some light sandpaper or even a wire wheel, but guys on GJ always amaze me at what is possible so i just ask a lot of questions.

Fretters is actually trying to paint his most recent vise project over the linseed oil he put on it when it came out of his Electrolysis tank, but i think he brushes on his paints with an enamel or oil based paint.

since you did all the work to clean the vise up I'd go look into the Hammered Rustoleum spray paints that are maybe $10 per can and Verde green seems to be popular. of course your vise your color is a what i say so black, red, blue or whatever color you want to look at when you see it sitting on your bench.

good luck

 

[SeattleKent]

I've been using electrolysis for rust and paint removal for the last couple of years. A couple of comments on the above discussions.

I would avoid the baking soda and use "washing soda" which is Sodium Carbonate. I use "Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda". I get it at the locals super market in the laundry products section. Also can be found on Amazon, just search for "washing soda". When I first started I was using too little. I put about a cup in a bucket of water. Once set up I slowly add more. As I add the current jumps up. I keep adding until it does not increase current.

Lots of discussions of hydrogen embrittlement. I was worried about this at first. After lots of research I figured it was not a problem. During the electrolysis, hydrogen atoms work their way into the metal crystal lattice. Once the electrolysis is done the hydrogen works it way out of the lattice. No harm done. The process can be speed up by baking the part in an oven at 300 degrees for an hour. If I was working on parts for the International Space Station I might be concerned. For a vise or engine block I am not worried.

High current and overheating of charger is usually the result of having the part and the rebar too close. If they get within an inch or so a lot of current flows through the water. Just separate the parts by several inches. The rust removal improves and the current drops.

Some discussions of degreasing. I always try to have the parts free of grease and oil before electrolysis. Electrolysis does some amazing stuff, unfortunately grease removal is not one of the powers.

 

[My Old Tools]

I made mine out of a Walmart large square plastic garden tub. I updated it recently with two graphite plates about 16x16 screwed to each end. My amperage draw went from barely anything using an old disc brake rotor to full draw on the charger using the plates.

 

[Fretters]

Sure, get the gunky stuff all over Rosie!

I think i heard you weren't able to get the jaws off prior to the E bath so were you able to after the bath?

It's the screws on the leadscrew collar which aren't playing ball with this one. One snapped screwdriver later, (quite gutted over that screwdriver as it was an old square shank, wooden handle one), they're now in the process of having their heads drilled off. Once I can get the collar off, the stubs might hopefully come out with the Mole grips. I'd have preferred to keep the old screws intact, but they weren't having any of it.

 

[Fretters]

I would avoid the baking soda...

Any specific reason? I'm just asking for possible reference; not being snotty or owt.

 

[SeattleKent]

Any specific reason? I'm just asking for possible reference; not being snotty or owt.

Hummm. Fair question. The short answer is because that is what lots of other sites say "use Washing Soda not Baking Soda". When I was first starting out I read about 20 websites on electrolysis. I saw the recommendation to use Washing Soda and that stuck in my brain.

Prompted by Fretters question I did more research. It seems I was wrong. Both will work though Washing Soda is slightly better. The "not baking soda" warning in many posts is not correct.

Both are chemically similar. In fact heating Baking Soda in the oven will drive off water and carbon dioxide producing Washing Soda.

In solution the Washing Soda will carry twice the charge as the Baking Soda but this is not really a big deal because you can just add more Baking Soda.

The pH of the Washing Soda solution is around 11 making it a minor skin irritant while the pH of the Baking Soda solution is around 8 and easier on the skin.

The one advantage of the Washing Soda is that it will tend to remove any residual grease or oil on the object being cleaned.

 

[n8n]

Some discussions of degreasing. I always try to have the parts free of grease and oil before electrolysis. Electrolysis does some amazing stuff, unfortunately grease removal is not one of the powers.

Precleaning with oven cleaner (or presumably lye/drain cleaner as well) works wondermously for grease removal. My usual two step process is to clean with oven cleaner and then cook the part in "the tank" until all the rust is gone. Works great for me...

 

[gatorgrabber]

Just a thought for those trying to treat large, odd-shaped objects; plastic kiddie pools. They come in several sizes, are about a foot deep and are cheap, cheap. They're also tougher than they look as long as you treat them with care.

 

[hoyt]

i'm hearing using graphite pieces instead of steel for the electrodes might make less of a mess, but haven't heard from anybody that has fired one up yet.

I purchased some graphite rods for this, but have not started the project. The difficult part seems to be connectig the rods to the power supply. My plan is to fabricate some copper tabs and use a conductive epoxy to attach them to the rods. That will make it easy to wire them up.

 

[Fretters]

I purchased some graphite rods for this, but have not started the project. The difficult part seems to be connectig the rods to the power supply. My plan is to fabricate some copper tabs and use a conductive epoxy to attach them to the rods. That will make it easy to wire them up.

Graphite works quite well as an anode. Simplest way I found to connect them when I tried was to just drill a hole through and thread the wire through and wrap it around a couple of times, if needed.

 

[Outlawmws]

I plan on drilling them, and using copper/brass machine screws to hang them from those holes on holes in the top edge of the container, then using crimped ring connectors on the wire to daisy chain the wire on the outside of the container.

 

[404]

Hi,

Great pics and write up Fretters.

The graphite drills and taps well. A Brass 1/4-20 screw will hold a ring terminal to the graphite. For a deep tank the graphite can be extended by drilling and tapping the ends of the blocks and screwing them together with long setscrews or beheaded bolts. Useing a 275 Gallon IBC Tank with the top cut off.

http://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/H-3886/Tanks/275-Gallon-IBC-Tank

Regards,
404