Honda pressure washer kicking back when starting??

[section8joe]

I've got a honda 4 stroke pressure washer and the last time I used it I ran out of gas. I put it away and the next time I tried to fire it up the damn thing almost took my hand off while I was pull starting it. I took the plug out and it pulls smoothly. I put the plug back in and try to fire it up and it seems to build compression and then BAM it kicks back taking my hand with it. Any suggestions on what I did to mess this thing up?

 

[Advan]

While I've never seen this on a Honda, in every other instance its been a sheared flywheel key, believe it or not!

 

[section8joe]

Why would a sheered key cause it to pull back so hard? I'm not doubting you just wondering.

 

[danbuff]

try starting with hand on spray gun trigger. I find with my Honda washer I sometimes have to hold down the trigger when starting.. Kinda awkward but relieves pressure for startup

 

[Milton Shaw]

A sheared key on a Briggs engine makes the spark out of time with the motor. It makes the spark early which will cause the kickback by having the spark ignite early.I assume the same will happen on a Honda motor. Most engines with a compression release would not do this any more and that Honda should have a compression release but I don't know for sure.

 

[wasfuzz]

try starting with hand on spray gun trigger. I find with my Honda washer I sometimes have to hold down the trigger when starting.. Kinda awkward but relieves pressure for startup

1+ thats what I do with my Honda Press. Washer

 

[PassnThru]

+2 - oddly enough I don't remember it being that way when new but it's pretty much required now. It's not the engine - it's the pump.

 

[Shawn S]

I was told when I bought mine that it was very important to hold the wand open when starting it.

Edit: a Google search brought me to this company's website. Their directions on starting state that you hold the wand open when starting. http://www.mitm.com/support/videos/how-to-start-a-gas-pressure-washer/

 

[p_mori7]

+3 on holding down on the wand trigger to start the engine.

 

[yeldogt]

Mine will will do the same. Sometimes I forget and just pull ... if it fails to start it's impossible to get a pull on the second try w/o the trigger pressed.

 

[Zeke]

While it is better (if not necessary) to hold the trigger open, I don't think the kick back is related. If it is, get your glove on and pull harder. Get a new plug too.

 

[PassnThru]

While it is better (if not necessary) to hold the trigger open, I don't think the kick back is related. If it is, get your glove on and pull harder. Get a new plug too.

Excellent point - you made me reread the OP. The question now is - is it actually kick back or does it just lock up trying to start it?

OP - which is it? Does it actually pull you back down or is it just a hard stop?

 

[KMinAF]

Wouldn't the overunning clutch on the pull start prevent the engine from pulling the rope back in?
+6 on holding the trigger open when starting

 

[section8joe]

Excellent point - you made me reread the OP. The question now is - is it actually kick back or does it just lock up trying to start it?

OP - which is it? Does it actually pull you back down or is it just a hard stop?

It almost fells like it's pulling back down. It's pretty violent too. I ended up with bruised fingers.

 

[yeldogt]

It feels as if you are loading pressure into/ onto the pump and at some point the pump pushes back. It's not pulling it all the way back in -- you get a very quick violent "yank"

The pull starter mechanism is designed to allow the engine to start and come to speed -- but not if the engine is going backwards ... it pulls the cord back.

As I said above -- I have the GX engine and mine has always done this if I'm not careful.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I think the guys have covered the two things to do / check...

One tip I read in my manual (and I never did in the past, but do now) is to leave the engine off, but pull the cord 4 or 5 times after you disconnect the hoses to help purge water out of the pump.

We were working on my neighbor's pressure washer and when I went to re-install the pump I noticed there was no key. Likewise you could see where it was spinning on the shaft & inside the pump. Fortunately I had a spare key from something else, used it and all was well. He did find a short key the week before on the ground and couldn't figure out what it went to. I don't know if it worked its way out the top or if it sheared and that key was from something else as there were a little bit of metal shavings in there but that could have been from the pump spinning. Either way, always good to do a visual inspection of the pump and shaft.

 

[mizzoutrover]

The exhaust valve may need adjustment you can find a service manual for Honda engines at the following link http://www.honda-engines-eu.com/shop-manuals?e=1_36&p=all&d=all&l=all&t=all
Also check out the information on the last posting on this link on compression release, it can be inspected by removing the valve cover. http://www.lawnmowerforum.com/showt...GCV160-Mower-quot-kickback-quot-when-starting

 

[manwithtools]

Hold the trigger to help relive the pressure as stated above. Cranking the engine when off with no water supply connected can help alleviate the hard start next time as well.

 

[yeldogt]

I don't think you guys are understanding.

If you have the trigger pulled on the gun the engine fires up normally -- it's not the engine.

The oddity can occur if you put the gun down and turn off the engine -- then immediately try and start the engine without releasing the pressure that was built up while the engine was running with the gun off. The other time is when you try and start the engine cold with no pressure -- if the engine does not start on the first or second pull -- you are building up pressure unless you have the gun open ... all of a sudden the back pressure becomes too great.

 

[mizzoutrover]

I had the recoil kick back while holding the trigger on the spray wand on my power washer. Until the OP does some testing the cause of the problem remains unknown. I think several here understand. While I agree the water pressure against the pump can cause kick back the compression release or exhaust valve out of adjustment can also cause kick back.
Holding the wand is the first thing to try to diagnose the problem, if that doesn't help, look to checking the exhaust valve adjustment and compression release mechanism per the links I posted above.

 

[section8joe]

Ok, I tried to start with water on and the trigger pressed. Water shoots slowly though the wand like usual. When I try to pull the engine kicks hard. I removed the cover and it seems the flywheel woodruff key intact. I don't understand the exhaust valve settings, can someone shed some light on this for me? I've set them on motorcycles several times but I'm having a hard time with these. Here is the manual for my washer although it hasn't really been a help to me.

 

[firworks]

If your valves are out of adjustment, then you are pulling against the compression / vacuum of the engine more than normal. There's a valve cover on there, and under it you'll find the rocker arms for the intake and exhaust valves. If you look up your particular engine online somewhere you'll find a spec for "Valve lash", along with a procedure for adjusting the cap between the rocker arm and the valve. Check YouTube for videos on "Adjusting/Setting Valve Lash" on lawnmowers or pressure washers. I'm sure there are tons of videos on it.

View media item 70492

 

[redmondjp]

I have a large pressure washer with a Briggs Vanguard 18hp motor on it. It has a new $250 bypass valve on it. It has the same issue when starting - you have to hold the trigger or the engine won't turn over. I'd just do that and get on with the cleaning!

 

[section8joe]

I have a large pressure washer with a Briggs Vanguard 18hp motor on it. It has a new $250 bypass valve on it. It has the same issue when starting - you have to hold the trigger or the engine won't turn over. I'd just do that and get on with the cleaning!

I tried holding the trigger. No luck with that at all.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

1+ thats what I do with my Honda Press. Washer

try starting with hand on spray gun trigger. I find with my Honda washer I sometimes have to hold down the trigger when starting.. Kinda awkward but relieves pressure for startup

+2 - oddly enough I don't remember it being that way when new but it's pretty much required now. It's not the engine - it's the pump.

+3 on holding down on the wand trigger to start the engine.

Mine will will do the same. Sometimes I forget and just pull ... if it fails to start it's impossible to get a pull on the second try w/o the trigger pressed.

There is usually a relief valve on the pump having an external nut and a visible spring....Turn it a little, and you may find you can start without holding the trigger.

If your valves are out of adjustment, then you are pulling against the compression / vacuum of the engine more than normal. There's a valve cover on there, and under it you'll find the rocker arms for the intake and exhaust valves. If you look up your particular engine online somewhere you'll find a spec for "Valve lash", along with a procedure for adjusting the cap between the rocker arm and the valve. Check YouTube for videos on "Adjusting/Setting Valve Lash" on lawnmowers or pressure washers. I'm sure there are tons of videos on it.

Also with the valve cover off, roll it over slowly and watch to see both valves move. Not common on Honda, but sometimes they get gummed in place.

 

[redmondjp]

I tried holding the trigger. No luck with that at all.

OK, must be your compression release in the engine then - proceed!

 

[DanarchyCustoms]

This has happened to me on my chainsaw. When I rebuilt it, it was a motherlover to start so I ended up moving the magneto away from the flywheel a little bit more. Every once in a while it will do it when warm, so I have to pull the 'pullstart' slowly until i feel the compression stroke. Thats when I let the 'pullstart' back in, and then pull quickly back out to try and start it. It is slightly easier this way. Unfortunately for you I have a decomp valve and I don't think you do in this case.

 

[EOC_Jason]

So basically the consensus now is adjust the valve lash or magneto? Sounds reasonable...

Funny story, I was working on a mower I got for free once. Everything was f-ed up on it. Once I got it running it was *okay* but still acted odd. I pulled the top cover and the magneto was literally set as far back as it could go (and crooked at that)... How that thing ever fired up in the first place is beyond me. Used a note-card to gap it back proper and ran like a top.

 

[nbpt100]

If you disconnect the pump to isolate the motor from the pump you can see what happens. If it still has trouble with kick back then you know for sure it is the engine.
As recommended above check the valve lash.
With the valve cover off and the plug removed you can turn the engine over and watch the exhaust valve rocker. You should be able to see it open slightly on the compression stroke, if it has a decompression mechanism. I am not sure if it does or not.
Post you engine model number and I am sure some one can confirm this.

Those Hondas are unique. They have a timing belt and some even have plastic cams. Believe it or not.

 

[section8joe]

I'm going to check the valves soon. I haven't had time to get into the garage the past few days. I did find a few videos showing how to find TDC and valve clearances for people who may have this problem in the future. I also found a video showing a defective cam pulley. I posted them below.

 

[Showkey]

The larger Honda have compression release ( as mentioned in prior posts) to easy starting as part of the valve train.
As other are stating .........Its pretty much normal........It's not the valve settings.......total waste of time. But....carry on.

 

[EOC_Jason]

I'm going to check the valves soon. I haven't had time to get into the garage the past few days. I did find a few videos showing how to find TDC and valve clearances for people who may have this problem in the future. I also found a video showing a defective cam pulley. I posted them below.

Interesting videos, thanks for sharing. Sounds like you have a little investigation work to do one of these days. Can't wait to hear what the problem is / was.

 

[Nexussian]

I removed the cover and it seems the flywheel woodruff key intact.

Last small engine that sheared a key, that I worked on, was a Tecumseh powered lawn mower (sudden stop as the operator "found" a large rock with the blade).

I could see the key didn't line up with its' groove in the crank,

If your Honda uses an actual Woodruff key, you won't see the groove in the crank as the key has a "half moon" shape.

A Woodruff key would require pulling the flywheel, if it hasn't run since, it won't have had time to have spit the broken piece of key out.

I point that out as I can't see the keyway groove in the crank in your picture.

I know you called it a Woodruff key, but I don't know you, and there are plenty of people I do know that call any key a "Woodruff" key.

I'm not trying to be insulting, just trying to make sure we are all on the same page.

I don't know the modern Hondas, but it sure sounds like an overly advanced flywheel to me.

Not that I have any idea how running a pressure washer out of gas could cause that.

Only time I've seen a engine do that without a sudden stop was years ago in auto shop.

The practice engines (single cylinder, don't remember what brand) had an aluminum crank key.

If you didn't get the recoil clutch/ crank nut assembly tight it would run up to the governor and then stop violently.

Anyone do any work on the flywheel or recoil starter before your troubles?

 

[firworks]

The larger Honda have compression release ( as mentioned in prior posts) to easy starting as part of the valve train.
As other are stating .........Its pretty much normal........It's not the valve settings.......total waste of time. But....carry on.

My experience is with B&S small engines so if Hondas are different then I'll let other people advise instead. When I hear "Pulls my hand off when I start it" I think valve adjustment.

 

[section8joe]

ok, They exhaust valve was loose. I reset the valves to .15 and .20 and when I turned the motor over to re inspect they were loose again. Why would this be happening? The locking nuts are both still tight. I also wasn't able to get the flywheel of to make sure the key wasn't the culprit. I need to get a larger gear puller.

 

[redmondjp]

ok, They exhaust valve was loose. I reset the valves to .15 and .20 and when I turned the motor over to re inspect they were loose again. Why would this be happening? The locking nuts are both still tight. I also wasn't able to get the flywheel of to make sure the key wasn't the culprit. I need to get a larger gear puller.

Does that motor have the compression-release device on the exhaust valve cam which holds the valve slightly open (that centrifugal force causes to disengage once the engine is running)?

Carbon deposits on the valve seats? Valve stems sticking in the guides? Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[nbpt100]

If you give the top of the shaft a whack with a hammer while applying some upwards pessure with a pry tool, sometimes the impact can pop the fly wheel off. It is on a tapered shaft. leave the nut on the very top of the shaft to protect the threads.
As someone else pointed out it would be strange for this type of machine to shear the key. There is nothing for it to jamb with and abruptly stall unless the pump had a catastrophic failure and was seized. It does not sound like that is the case.

I did not watch those videos but I know from experience you need to make sure you are at TDC or slightly past it to ensure you are getting the right clearances. You want to make sure the decompression cam is not effecting anything. (did you confirm if your engine has this feature?) There is usually a range or tolerance given on the spec. I think in terms of thousandths of an inch. Something like +/- .001" is a typical valve lash tolerance on a small engine. Even if you are out of range by .001" it should not cause the issues you have.

You also said the valves were loose. What do you mean by that? Is the valve guide worn and the valve moves around when it is open? If that is the case you have a more serious problem. Did you mean they were out of the valve lash spec, on the high side? High valve lash specs are only going to cause the valves to be open for less time and not open as high. The valve train would be loud when it runs.
If the valve lash is tight it may prevent the valve from fully closing at running temperature. I am sure it said this in the video but you need to inspect these at normal room temperatures. Not with the engine still warm.
So a little bit more clarity here and you will get some good help. Good luck.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Valve clearance is spec'ed on the 160/190 as:

IN: 0.15 ± 0.04 mm
EX: 0.20 ± 0.04 mm

So yeah there is some wiggle room...

 

[Nexussian]

ok, They exhaust valve was loose. I reset the valves to .15 and .20 and when I turned the motor over to re inspect they were loose again. Why would this be happening? The locking nuts are both still tight. I also wasn't able to get the flywheel of to make sure the key wasn't the culprit. I need to get a larger gear puller.

Are the rockers stud mounted?

If so the studs could be pulling out.

Or it could be you didn't have the crank in the right position.

 

[Trey T]

any updates?