How do I do this without a mill?

[Onefastgsx]

Well basically I am making (copying) a throttle body adapter to run a larger throttle body on my car. I have made a few before with great success but this time there is something a little different. There is an area where air can flow through and around the butterfly valve for the car to idle smooth. This is accomplished by notching a section in the adapter right above the main port.

Here is the notch I'm referring to in the original adapter:


Here is the chunk of aluminum scrap I am cutting my adapter out of (seen on left) next to the original I am copying (on right)


Everything I have done on mine up to this point has been done with a drill press. I do not own nor do I have access to a mill, which is what I'm sure is used to typically make a notch like this. Everything I've read online says it's a serious safety issue to try and put pressure on a drill press from the side unless some modifications are made to it (different bearings, support for the chuck and neck and so on)
I'm not looking to spend alot of time modifying my press to make it into something similar to a mill. But I do need a way to make this groove in the plate I am making.

Is the any hand/power tool that I could use to make a notch like this? It doesn't have to be perfect, but the cleaner and smoother the better.

Thanks for any tips or advise.
Craig

 

[Kiwi Canuck]

I have machined aluminum with a router before, there are special spiral bits suitable for use on a hand held router, they are usually about 1/4" diameter and require a very high speed router.
You will need to make a guide and use an adapter suitable for use with a 1/4" bit.
Take small passes, maximum 1/8" depth at a time.

Make sure your work piece is securely fastened and only use this method if you are comfortable using a router.

These things can bite if you are not familiar with the operation, so proceed with caution.

Good luck.

 

[fatboy99]

Where in Indiana are you located? There may be some one here with a mill that can help you out.

 

[SuburbanRuss]

Um I think taking it to someone who could do it for you would be the best. That is a spendy chunk of aluminum to be going at with hand tools. However if you had to i am thinking a small air tool with a carbide bur to make a rough first cut. Then use abrasive rolls (like the ones use to smooth out the ports on aluminum heads) could be used to bring it to a closer finsihed product. The nice thing about the abrasives it you can vary their grit...

An abrasives kit like this- http://amzn.com/B007VRAGJK

 

[zkling]

You COULD do it with a router or die grinder and burr, but that is so simple with a mill and two endmills. Are you sure you have no contacts with access to a mill? Bandsaw or even a hacksaw to contour it out. If you are willing to ship a number of us could help you out.

 

[ChrisFox]

You have a hackerspace close by? The one I went to a few times is awesome. Wish I lived closer to it.

Here's their machine shop tool list.
https://txrxlabs.org/tools/lab/machine-shop_2/

 

[Stinger]

Just use a carbide burr, it doesn't have to be as "perfect" as the one you're copying to be completely functional. It just needs to allow air to flow from point A to point B. No one will ever see it after it's installed unless you show it to them.

 

[rsanter]

I would use an end cutting mill bit in the drill press and keep eating away it it till most the material you want removed it gone.
Finish up with a dire grinder

Bob

 

[kkroger]

Ball Mill or a carbide burr in the drill press for the notch.
Drill a series of holes for the profile, then use the belt sander or ??? for the outside...
OR you could use a straight carbide burr and use your drill press like a drum sander to clean up the profile... When making the notch, set your depth stop and go to town so a series of plunges to depth then lock it down and clean it up. make sure you use some sort of lube on the cutter regularly so it doesn't load up with aluminum.

 

[gasgas17]

By the time you went out and bought a 1/4 " end mill and a guide for your router you would have out spent the cost to have it machined. Hell, they could cut out the whole piece in the mill and still be cheaper. Find a small machine shop in your area and they will have that done in 10 minutes.

 

[BFBOB]

Give a_Pmech a shout. He's in a neighboring state, not too far depending on what part of Indiana you're in. He's in the biz, has a well equipped shop, did a small job for me recently. Excellent work, reasonably priced.

 

[larry_g]

Hell, they could cut out the whole piece in the mill and still be cheaper. Find a small machine shop in your area and they will have that done in 10 minutes.

Sounds like you have some experience here, what would you charge to set this up and make the cut? Personally I don't think you have a clue.

Jack Olsen on here has posted up some pictures of doing this work with a router, you'll have to search it out.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Kevin54]

Send it over here next door and I'll knock it out for you. It will only take about 10 minutes to do. All I need is marked out where you want it cut at, what depth, and what radius. Same day turn around. I'll do it for shipping cost plus enough for a 6 pack.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Wonder if you could plunge cut it with an end mill in a drill press, then clean it up with a good file set. Tom from toms tequiniques plunge cuts to rough out stuff on his mill because he says it is faster and has less wear on the mill and cutter since there is no side load, I wonder if you could do this on a drill press since there is no side load.

Watch this video and start at around 8 minutes to see what I'm talking about.

Chris

 

[Richard D]

Send it over here next door and I'll knock it out for you. It will only take about 10 minutes to do. All I need is marked out where you want it cut at, what depth, and what radius. Same day turn around. I'll do it for shipping cost plus enough for a 6 pack.

^^^Do this.^^^ Why screw around when it can easily be done right.

 

[astroracer]

Guys... DO NOT use a drill press for milling... Drill presses are not designed to do that work. The spindle is held in by pressure from the drilling operation. A mill has a drawbar that holds the spindle in the quill.
Milling with a drill press will let the spindle fall out of the quill. Chatter and no upward pressure can wreak havoc...
Mark

 

[NASTYZEN]

Send it over here next door and I'll knock it out for you. It will only take about 10 minutes to do. All I need is marked out where you want it cut at, what depth, and what radius. Same day turn around. I'll do it for shipping cost plus enough for a 6 pack.

Too bad your not located closer Kev. I could sure use a guys talents like yours as a neighbor man.

 

[rdn2blazer]

Ball Mill or a carbide burr in the drill press for the notch.
Drill a series of holes for the profile, then use the belt sander or ??? for the outside...
OR you could use a straight carbide burr and use your drill press like a drum sander to clean up the profile... When making the notch, set your depth stop and go to town so a series of plunges to depth then lock it down and clean it up. make sure you use some sort of lube on the cutter regularly so it doesn't load up with aluminum.

You will ruin the spindle and or drill chuck quick chucking and endmill in a drill chuck and milling with it. It's NOT designed for that purpose period. In ANY machine shop I've ever worked in doing that would get you fired on the spot. Including myown shop. This is why people who do not know how to machine get hurt by doing stupid things just like this. I've been a machinist for over 20 years and seeing this type of stuff suggested is just unbelieveable to me. Do not do this OP period. The only GOOD way IS with a mill period. Any other method is going to be a hack job.

 

[kkroger]

You will ruin the spindle and or drill chuck quick chucking and endmill in a drill chuck and milling with it. It's NOT designed for that purpose period. In ANY machine shop I've ever worked in doing that would get you fired on the spot. Including myown shop. This is why people who do not know how to machine get hurt by doing stupid things just like this. I've been a machinist for over 20 years and seeing this type of stuff suggested is just unbelieveable to me. Do not do this OP period. The only GOOD way IS with a mill period. Any other method is going to be a hack job.

I Never said to mill with it. I said to plunge which is a drilling operation. From the "machine" work I see DAILY coming from offsite "Machine Shops" everyone who works in a "machine shop" should be fired. but that is a completely different story. Drum sanders are used in drill presses all the time.
Everything I said to do was a drilling operation or sanding operation.

 

[Onefastgsx]

Thank you to all the offers to machine this for me. I would take one of you up on it but I am very die hard about seeing my projects from begining to end. If I did get with someone to run it on a mill I'd really like to be there to learn about the process and such. Machining is certainly something I plan to get into some day and it's always small projects like this one that get me started in new fields.

I never had any intention of trying to use my drill press to cut away at this. I did alot of googling before I started this project to see how different a drill press and a mill are. I realize that it's not only terrible for my press, but also there's a good chance I'd get injured in the process.

I did find out today that a person in another department at work actually has a small mill at home. I'm going to talk to him about it tomorrow and I'll see where Im at. I'll keep you all posted.

 

[Shadowdog500]

Guys... DO NOT use a drill press for milling... Drill presses are not designed to do that work. The spindle is held in by pressure from the drilling operation. A mill has a drawbar that holds the spindle in the quill.
Milling with a drill press will let the spindle fall out of the quill. Chatter and no upward pressure can wreak havoc...
Mark

I agree not to put side pressure on a drill chuck that is mounted using a jacobs taper, but I hope you don't really believe that the pressure from the drilling operation is the only thing holding the Chuck on the spindle. Go out to your drill press and try to pull the chuck off by hand. I bet you can't. Actually if it's been on there for a while you may have to beat the snot out of it with a set of special wedges to get it off.

Chris

 

[Shadowdog500]

Thank you to all the offers to machine this for me. I would take one of you up on it but I am very die hard about seeing my projects from begining to end. If I did get with someone to run it on a mill I'd really like to be there to learn about the process and such. Machining is certainly something I plan to get into some day and it's always small projects like this one that get me started in new fields.

I never had any intention of trying to use my drill press to cut away at this. I did alot of googling before I started this project to see how different a drill press and a mill are. I realize that it's not only terrible for my press, but also there's a good chance I'd get injured in the process.

I did find out today that a person in another department at work actually has a small mill at home. I'm going to talk to him about it tomorrow and I'll see where Im at. I'll keep you all posted.

Glad you found someone with a mill to do it for you.

Contrary to what some here say, people have been doing limited milling operations on drill presses for a very long time. Not everyone has a mill.

Watch this video of a rather well known model engineer showing just what can be done on a drill press.

This was part of a 2 hour instructional video he did years ago.

Here are photos of his work that he made on that drill press. I'd like to see someone here call it hack work.

Here is a link with some information on him http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/kouhoupt.htm

Chris

 

[buildyourown]

We route aluminum all the time on big stuff that won't fit in our mill.
It *****, you get messy, it's super loud, but it works.
The trick is to buy a router speed controller. Most routers are 25k rpm. A 1/4" carbide bit in a rigid machine should be going about 4-6k.
Get a speed controller and a decent carbide bit. Wax it up and run it as slow as you can.
Make a guide with plywood or polycarbonate around the area so when the tool grabs (and it will) it doesn't break anything or ruin the part.

 

[ncfh]

I love machinists, but you could replicate that with an angle grinder, an appropriately radiused burr, and a ruler, some card stock and pencil for making a template or two and a simple profile gauge/checker.

If you're afraid of boogering it, or yourself up with the grinder, spot drill most of it out and clean up with the burr instead.

If your a machinist at heart, just keeping telling yourself it's no different than a port and polish, just without the port, and less polish.

Routers also work, but a jig would be required! And lots of WD! And messy OMFG!

 

[astroracer]

I agree not to put side pressure on a drill chuck that is mounted using a jacobs taper, but I hope you don't really believe that the pressure from the drilling operation is the only thing holding the Chuck on the spindle. Go out to your drill press and try to pull the chuck off by hand. I bet you can't. Actually if it's been on there for a while you may have to beat the snot out of it with a set of special wedges to get it off.

Chris

Didn't say that, just didn't think I needed to write a book about it. Upward pressure on the taper is what keeps the spindle in the quill if there is any chatter during the drilling process. Chatter WILL loosen a spindle very quickly. Chatter during a side milling operation on a drill press will let the spindle drop, not a good thing. Drill presses are not designed to take the side pressure and the lesser rotating tolerances will let the tools chatter....
I also didn't say it couldn't be done IF you know what it involves to do it safely. Most people that are not machinists do not know the difference between a drill press and a mill. Doing this without that knowledge can be dangerous. I would never recommend this to anyone.
Mark

 

[astroracer]

I've used a router to cut aluminum quite a few times. Like buildyourown said, I use a speed controller to slow it down to keep from burning up bits and reduce gauling. Made these 3/8th inch thick step plates for my pickup and I use it a lot for cutting fan openings in aluminum radiator shrouds. I see no reason this could not be used to cut your slots. Once the speed is dialed in it works very well.

I have a jig I clamp to my router table for cutting holes in aluminum sheet. Works very well once you get the speed controller dialed in.

I have mine marked now so it's a no brainer to cut aluminum. A little cutting wax smeared in the cutter path keeps it lubed.
Mark

 

[gol4]

Onefastgsx what did the geared piece of aluminum you are using come from.
I looks similar to the gearing used on an Apache camper lift system.
Only difference is the hole would be in the center and some gearing on the inside.

 

[Kevin54]

Thank you to all the offers to machine this for me. I would take one of you up on it but I am very die hard about seeing my projects from begining to end. If I did get with someone to run it on a mill I'd really like to be there to learn about the process and such. Machining is certainly something I plan to get into some day and it's always small projects like this one that get me started in new fields.

I never had any intention of trying to use my drill press to cut away at this. I did alot of googling before I started this project to see how different a drill press and a mill are. I realize that it's not only terrible for my press, but also there's a good chance I'd get injured in the process.

I did find out today that a person in another department at work actually has a small mill at home. I'm going to talk to him about it tomorrow and I'll see where Im at. I'll keep you all posted.

Depending on where you are at in Indiana, I am in Urbana, Ohio maybe 1 1/2 hours away from Richmond. You are more than welcome to come over and I'll help you on it and show you how to run the machines.

 

[404]

Guys... DO NOT use a drill press for milling... Drill presses are not designed to do that work. The spindle is held in by pressure from the drilling operation. A mill has a drawbar that holds the spindle in the quill.
Milling with a drill press will let the spindle fall out of the quill. Chatter and no upward pressure can wreak havoc...
Mark

Exactly, Thank you. If one has no milling machine a router or a die grinder with a burr is a better safer choice. Heck it could be done with a wood chisel and determination.

 

[404]

Glad you found someone with a mill to do it for you.

Contrary to what some here say, people have been doing limited milling operations on drill presses for a very long time. Not everyone has a mill.

Watch this video of a rather well known model engineer showing just what can be done on a drill press.

This was part of a 2 hour instructional video he did years ago.

Here are photos of his work that he made on that drill press. I'd like to see someone here call it hack work.

Here is a link with some information on him http://www.craftsmanshipmuseum.com/kouhoupt.htm

Chris

That is beautiful work but the drill press he has is of much better quality than most made today.

 

[rockwithjason]

Depending on where you are at in Indiana, I am in Urbana, Ohio maybe 1 1/2 hours away from Richmond. You are more than welcome to come over and I'll help you on it and show you how to run the machines.

this is why you are one of the best guys out there kev. for those of you wondering, he did a band up job on my lathes cross slide when i needed a t slot milled in it

 

[ishiboo]

This is aluminum... I wouldn't hesitate to put it in a drill press and take a light cut. If you have a cross slide vise, I'd invest a few bucks in a two-flute end mill and do it up.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

FWIW, before I had anything other that a will and a drill press, I'd take an old drill bit, grind the end flat, then grind a little relief so it would cut to "make" my own end mill to do things like this in aluminum. I'd just plunge it in with light pressure then go back and nibble away at what the circle missed with the bit and then clean the rest up with the die grinder. Side loading a NORMAL drill press that's not made for type of work is had on them. You do what you have to do to get by sometimes...

 

[larry_g]

For all the good modeling Rudy did it still does not make it right. I offer the above vid to be more typical of the results expected from a DP without a retained chuck, and a quill lock.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[TheEquineFencer]

For all the good modeling Rudy did it still does not make it right. I offer the above vid to be more typical of the results expected from a DP without a retained chuck, and a quill lock.

lg
no neat sig line

Good example. That's why I just go straight down with a "mill" bit, raise it, move over and take another small cut. How I lived without a BP before I'll never know.

 

[Onefastgsx]

Depending on where you are at in Indiana, I am in Urbana, Ohio maybe 1 1/2 hours away from Richmond. You are more than welcome to come over and I'll help you on it and show you how to run the machines.

That's really cool of you to offer. I did manage to find someone at work that is going to let me use his mill with him. But I may take you up on that in the future. I hope to get myself a decent benchtop mill sometime in the future and I'll need all the help I can get getting set up and everything.