How do these torque sticks work?

[DavidtheDuke]

I just got these today:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/tools.asp?tool=all&Group_ID=2219&store=snapon-store

I tried the 100 ft lb on a Ford Escape, and had the MG725 on full blast.. it stopped at a certain point. I checked the torque with a wrench it was 100 ft lbs. What I don't understand is how the torque stick works... I don't see the female drive moving at all, even though I know my impact wrench is giving more than 100 ft lbs. I thought the stick had a clutch of some sort, and would spit under the desired load. So where is the torque going?

 

[Moose-LandTran]

It's basically just a rod of spring steel. when it reaches a certain torque it flexes under the load and that absorbs the impact of the gun. they only work with impact wrenches, if you use them with a breaker bar it won't limit the torque.

 

[48548]

Same thing as he said, when they get to a certain point they flex so that the end other end doesn't move and that is also related to the thickness of the metal, the thicker the metal the more torque it can handle. I bought a cheap genius set and it works great on my milwaukee v28 impact wrench to limit the torque when it is wide open.

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

not the preferred method anymore
they want you to use a torque wrench now

 

[wilbilt]

Never the preferred method for some of us.

I have seen some pretty widespread results from using those things.

They are gimmicks for lazy people, IMHO.

 

[Ducroix]

We have a snap on set the dealership bought, i checked all of them with a torque wrench and they are quite accurate so I try to use them when possible

 

[nissan_crawler]

not the preferred method anymore
they want you to use a torque wrench now

Never the preferred method for some of us.

I have seen some pretty widespread results from using those things.

They are gimmicks for lazy people, IMHO.

I'm with this group. I changed tires for 1.5 years, and saw wide spread results. Checking them with a clicker wrench doesn't count, put a beam or dial torque wrench on them to see what they move at. It might scare you. I know I just about shat my pants when I saw a GEO lugnut went on at 98 ft lbs.

Torque sticks vary per impact, cfm, p.s.i., etc.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

I'm with this group. I changed tires for 1.5 years, and saw wide spread results. Checking them with a clicker wrench doesn't count, put a beam or dial torque wrench on them to see what they move at. It might scare you. I know I just about shat my pants when I saw a GEO lugnut went on at 98 ft lbs.

Torque sticks vary per impact, cfm, p.s.i., etc.

Well I guess my PSI is correct and what not. Almost all the lugnuts clicked when they should've, and a few just needed to be turned maybe a degree or two more to reach the 100 ft lbs. I"m going to check each one for awhile though.

 

[Ducroix]

lol everyone else at my works just runs them up with there impact and don't even bother torqueing them, they say if you want to make money flat rate thats the way you got to do it.... I dont want to have to pay for something i broke because i was lazy lol

 

[wilbilt]

They might be close, but are they correct 99% of the time?

To answer that question, you would have to check them with a torque wrench.

Why not use a torque wrench in the first place?

 

[nissan_crawler]

Well I guess my PSI is correct and what not. Almost all the lugnuts clicked when they should've, and a few just needed to be turned maybe a degree or two more to reach the 100 ft lbs. I"m going to check each one for awhile though.

"clicked when they should have"

This is what I'm talking about by innacurate check. Just because it's a 100 ft lb stick, and you put your torque wrench at 100 ft lbs and it clicks, doesn't mean it's good.

That GEO was supposed to have 60 some ft lbs on it. If I set a wrench to the spec, it would have clicked. Problem is, it wouldn't have told me it was set at 98 ft lbs. Hence, why clicker torque wrenches are junk for checking torque against a torque stick. You need to use a beam or dial type.

Those lugnuts that "clicked when they should have" could have been 40 ft lbs more than they should have been.

 

[DavidtheDuke]

Those lugnuts that "clicked when they should have" could have been 40 ft lbs more than they should have been.

You know, you're right, the only way to check it with a clicker would be to set it about 2-3 fl lbs above the torque being checked, and maybe that's still too close.

 

[Lyaec350]

I believe as torque sticks wear, the steel loses its springiness and ends up applying a lower torque than is indicated. Therefore I always tighten the nuts down with the stick and then check them with a beam type wrench. It's not going to tell you if its 102 ft lbs vs 100 ft lbs, but it will let you know if the stick limited you to say 80 ft lbs.

 

[48548]

I bought this set from torquestick.com and here is a list of the specs As you can see +/- 3% using an impact with 375-400 ft/lb. I would say that is good for me, look at the specs on a snap on torque wrench and when was it last calibrated? Just a thought, this would appear to be better in my mind. Then I bought a set up thin walled deep 6 point lug sockets(impact) from them with plastic liners on the inside tip and outside and it also came with a spare, not cheap, but I read a lot of reviews and this stuff seams to work great and have a lifetime warranty!!!!




*OUR BEST SELLER!*
Set will cover most foreign and domestic cars/light trucks.

STICKS INCLUDED:
65 ft/lb(90 Nm)-Green
75 ft/lb(100 Nm)-Black
80 ft/lb(110 Nm)-Yellow
90 ft/lb(120 Nm)-Red
100 ft/lb(135 Nm)-Blue
110 ft/lb(150 Nm)-Orange
120 ft/lb(160 Nm)-Grey
130 ft/lb(175 Nm)-Maroon
140 ft/lb(190 Nm)-White
150 ft/lb(200 Nm)-Light Blue
(ALL 7" STICKS)

All sticks are: (1/2" drive female-(gun end), 1/2" drive male (lug nut socket end)

Sticks are color coded and engraved with ft/lb and Nm settings for quick reference.

Once the correct torque has been reached; The shaft will flex in sync with the blows of the impact gun and bleed off torque.

Torque Sticks are accurate to within +/- 3% when used with a 375-400ft/lb impact gun.

Made of ultra high quality Chrome Vanadium Steel.

*PREMIUM Carry case included. Top of case can be removed to convert to a tool chest TRAY. [full case pictured]

LIFETIME WARRANTY Against breakage and manufacturer defects!

Used by AUTO and TIRE SERVICE Professionals around the world.

Manufacturer: Genius Tools

*TOTAL SHIPPING CHARGE FOR (US 48 STATES) =$6.00
Details


Weight 10.00 lbs
Price: $ 138.95

 

[wilbilt]

I believe as torque sticks wear, the steel loses its springiness and ends up applying a lower torque than is indicated. Therefore I always tighten the nuts down with the stick and then check them with a beam type wrench. It's not going to tell you if its 102 ft lbs vs 100 ft lbs, but it will let you know if the stick limited you to say 80 ft lbs.

I think you are correct about the sticks losing their "calibration" over time. Or maybe they never had "it" to start with.

That's why I just spin fasteners down with an impact and torque by hand. I think it's the best balance between speed and accuracy.

 

[48548]

Wouldn't the warranty cover them from losing the factory specs of +/- 3 percent and replace them?

 

[Lyaec350]

I think you are correct about the sticks losing their "calibration" over time. Or maybe they never had "it" to start with.

That's why I just spin fasteners down with an impact and torque by hand. I think it's the best balance between speed and accuracy.

Seems reasonable. What I was really trying to say is that you don't need to worry about the stick wearing out over time and applying MORE torque than it is rated for, what will happen is after a lot of use it will undertorque, so you're safe snugging them up with the torque wrench at the end.

I think our methods are pretty much the same, I just like to be able to pull the trigger on the impact (2135Ti, capable of WAY more than 100 ft lbs torque) and be confident I won't go over rather than taking it easy which is what you'd have to do if you were spinning them on w/ no torque stick.

 

[73 Mustang Bill]

I ask my tire store counter-guy to hand-tighten my lugs to 100 ft-lbs, like the manual says. They always say "Oh, we don't need to do that, because we use torque sticks". The last time the rear wheels were off the car, I watched the tire monkey tighten them with his air impact gun, presumably with a torques stick on, then go back and hit them again. I think he gave up when they kept going. When I got home, I checked them, as always. Every one of the rear lugs was stretched, and wouldn't torque up like they were supposed to. Decided to keep cranking on one, and sure enough, it broke.

It's not like I'm going to take it back to them to fix. Hell, they can't even get the air pressure correct (which is kind of important when you are doing a road force balance. 40 psi isn't correct). I replaced all the lugs at the cost of $17, plus a couple hours chasing parts, and a couple hours labor. Sent a nasty letter to the corporate headquarters. Got a call from the service manager at that shop. He said that he was hired to straighten out that store, as they've had a lot of problems. Claimed he had already fired two guys, and everyone else has been in training classes. Claimed he worked on a NASCAR team building engines, so he knows how to use a torque wrench, and knows the problems. I asked him how accurate the torque sticks were. He said 25 ft-lbs. Great, so I get between 75 and 125 ft-lbs? I don't think so. He said he didn't think that air impact guns should be used on anything but steel wheels. WHAT?!!! Steel wheels don't need to be torqued to 150 ft-lbs either.

He said he was requesting corporate to send me a check. Offered a free oil change so as to not lose me as a customer. I don't think I'd trust them to top off the blinker fluid.

 

[demographic]

Wouldn't the warranty cover them from losing the factory specs of +/- 3 percent and replace them?

Most clicker type torque wrenches are only calibrated to +/- 4% so I'd be fairly surprised of they were more accurate.

 

[BrokewrenchLS1]

They might be close, but are they correct 99% of the time?

To answer that question, you would have to check them with a torque wrench.

Why not use a torque wrench in the first place?

48 3/8" bolts that I have to torque between 3-10 times a day, depending on the day, to 55lb-ft. It's not a critical torque, anything between 50lb-ft and 60lb-ft is fine. After the second or third go with a torque wrench when it's 35C in the lab, it starts to get old. I'll spot-check three or four bolts with the torque wrench each time I put them in, just to make sure everything is close enough.

I wouldn't use them to put wheels on (although I never saw the need to use an impact to install lug nuts, anyway), but for repetitive jobs with an assload of fasteners where exact torque isn't critical, they make the job a hell of a lot easier.

 

[mlittle29]

lol everyone else at my works just runs them up with there impact and don't even bother torqueing them, they say if you want to make money flat rate thats the way you got to do it.... I dont want to have to pay for something i broke because i was lazy lol

had a place ruin my roters like this. when I get any tire work done by someone, I will ask up front if they torque. if the answer is yes, I test them on the value to MY vehicle specs. If they say nor or have the value wrong i just leave....

Ask the guys in your shop how this make you $$ if your customers leave and tell everyone they know what a S*** shop they are.

For me Car = kid hauler and the correct torque is a huge safety thing!

 

[jjjrmx5]

had a place ruin my roters like this.

I had that happen twice to my ex-wifes Pontiac Grand Prix at the dealer where overtightening the lugs warped the rotors on a brand new brake/rotor change.

I;ve also had them overtorque the lugs on one of my cars enough to stretch teh threads.

Anymore, if only wheels/tires I take them off teh car and deliver, then pick up and install myself.

If a shop must do it, once I get home I break out the breaker bar, loosen the lug nuts/bolts and then re-torque with my calibrated torque wrench.

Say what you will, but I trust very few shop employees to do a job correctly any more. Shortcuts, lazyness and lack of knowledge re: correct use of tools or assembly and disassembly methods leaves me angry, frustrated and speechless.

If doing interior work, several of my local dealers love to leave the left over nuts and bolts they couldn't figure out where they went to during reassembling components laying on the floormats or in teh cup holders. Sure, i didn't need those.

 

[woody 73]

I was always under the impression that the shops just used air guns without any torque sticks or torque wrenches; Something about get them out the door asap type attitude.

 

[pcpro15]

Most clicker type torque wrenches are only calibrated to +/- 4% so I'd be fairly surprised of they were more accurate.

I agree. And at that, how far off is my +/- 4% torque wrench now that its a few years old and used? I have the SO torque extensions, a buddy uses the big bluepoint kit... no issues here with torque sticks.

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

I hate when they use impact, some of the tech do that..
I keep my mouth shut...

 

[jjjrmx5]

no issues here with torque sticks.

And if used correctly, and calibrated per gun per stick with the correct gun settings, all is good.

No one is taught that step tho. And if taught very few listen because they are in too big of a hurry to get the job done, not get it done "correctly."

Ask your accountant next April when he's doing ur taxes to "hurry up and just get it done," and when the IRS comes at you he goes , "Sorry dude, I was in a hurry and my computer program just didn't set the perameters right and your IRS standing is now all f&*ked up. **** happens and it was a mistake. Sorry. How about a free shake at Sonic for the hassle?"

 

[Seanbev24]

Since I'm almost always using my 3/8" gun, I just set it on low and run the lugs down which ends up between 60-70 ft-lbs. Then I torque to spec. If using a 1/2" gun I use a torque stick, again before I torque to spec.

To me the only purpose of a torque stick is to gun lugs on quickly without overtorquing. I use them along with a torque wrench, not in place of one. Also, if the torque wrench clicks without the lug turning first, you've done it wrong.

The "I'm flat rate it takes to much time and costs me money" argument is ********. What does it take, 30 extra seconds to do it right?

 

[olds88]

The thing about torque sticks... is that they're about the only solution when you want to at least try to do the right thing, while the boss is breathing down your back to work faster.

Which is one of the reasons I no longer make a living turning wrenches.

 

[Wesley B]

lol everyone else at my works just runs them up with there impact and don't even bother torqueing them, they say if you want to make money flat rate thats the way you got to do it.... I dont want to have to pay for something i broke because i was lazy lol

Nobody I know torques or uses torque sticks. Just a little zip of the impact, you don't have to hold the trigger but for a second or two and they are tight enough. I can't believe you guys are so **** about this, but I guess some guys with no brains hold the trigger until the nut won't turn anymore.

 

[bradweingartner]

Nobody I know torques or uses torque sticks. Just a little zip of the impact, you don't have to hold the trigger but for a second or two and they are tight enough. I can't believe you guys are so **** about this, but I guess some guys with no brains hold the trigger until the nut won't turn anymore.

Doesn't make it right.

 

[DrkMtnDew]

the way i do lug nuts is to hand start, set impact on low, run lug down, and finish with torque wrech. when i'm running them down though i go for 2 or 3 hits with the hammer mechanism and stop. they barely get 30 lbs. on them. don't trust torque sticks at all. worked in the tire business for awhile and saw first hand the problems a cheap set can cause.

 

[smogtech]

invest in a good set and it won't have any problems.the main issue is people do not know how to use them properly. sticks must calibrated to the gun. sticks are built and tested at about 200 ft lbs so the gun needs to be in that range and not at full power. also the nut should be seated before hammering it down with the gun.

 

[srmofo]

"clicked when they should have"

This is what I'm talking about by innacurate check. Just because it's a 100 ft lb stick, and you put your torque wrench at 100 ft lbs and it clicks, doesn't mean it's good.

That GEO was supposed to have 60 some ft lbs on it. If I set a wrench to the spec, it would have clicked. Problem is, it wouldn't have told me it was set at 98 ft lbs. Hence, why clicker torque wrenches are junk for checking torque against a torque stick. You need to use a beam or dial type.

Those lugnuts that "clicked when they should have" could have been 40 ft lbs more than they should have been.

Some one should point out your method for testing torque sticks is highly inaccurate. Probably by as much as you are claiming the sticks to be.

Breaking torque (torque required to get a fastener moving again once stopped) is much higher than what the fastener stopped at. There are formulas that can tell you what the fastener was torqued at, but they are long and complicated, and require you to know material properties as well as the ambient area properties (temp and humidity) . You will also need to figure in things like wear, rust, and stretch because all of those will also affect torque.

1.5 years isn't a whole lot of experience,IMO, especially at a tire shop. People are still very green at that point, so let me share a little secret about torque sticks. Turn your damn gun down. I run all my wheels down with a torque stick and then chase with a wrench. If you don't pound on the sticks with an 800lbft gun, they won't over torque the nuts.

 

[countryroad82]

Never the preferred method for some of us.

I have seen some pretty widespread results from using those things.

They are gimmicks for lazy people, IMHO.

I'm lazy, but I haven't had any problems with mine, I double check with a torque wrench every now and again to make sure they are close and so far nothing after about 4 years. I work on a small fleet though and don't have tires on and off constantly though.

 

[smogtech]

most impact guns only have a power setting on forward for a reason

 

[BHH]

So what about using an 80 Ft. LB. and than finishing off with a Torque Wrench to the 100 Ft. Lb. required?

This would solve the problem of over torquing right?

Lazy? Maybe, but I would just really like to be able to use my 18V cordless to put on and take off my wheels.

 

[shampoop]

Most places will use a torque stick to get it close (one that's either at the value they want or just under it), then a torque wrench when on the ground to get the final torque. This method really does work best for many reasons.

 

[amolaver]

torque sticks are for the lazy and stupid. they might work with a 'calibrated' impact wrench on a set air pressure, but of course, no one has that magic combo. you might get close. you might twist off some studs. you might think they work..but you're wrong.

i've got no issue running down lugs with the impact (after hand starting), but you need to be off the trigger when the hammers hit. something like a MG725 or IR2135 running on typically 'hot' shop air (120psi is pretty common) and you're asking for trouble.

ahm

 

[SpiderGearsMan]

TORQUE STICKS ? not acceptable
use the torque wrench

 

[Major Ramifications]

I asked him how accurate the torque sticks were. He said 25 ft-lbs. Great, so I get between 75 and 125 ft-lbs?

Well, unless he said plus or minus 25, and not just 25, then you are correct. Otherwise, it would be from 87.5 to 112.5, which would give you a range of 25.

Either way, I know what you meant and I agree with your whole point. I wish there was a place where you could get a tire installed and not have to worry about them screwing up. I always bring my wheels in loose, so they have less to screw up.