How do these torque sticks work?

[metaleltr]

We just got torque sticks at school this year. I have maybe done 15 tires with them and use the following procedure for even torquing. I don't know if it is accurate but I do know that I have the least possible chance of rotor warpage.

-Hand tighten lugs as far as possible
-With proper torque stick on impact tighten until there is tension on the lug and the wheel pulls up tight.
-Go over the lugs just tapping the trigger enough to tighten the lugs a little more
-Go over the lugs hammering on each one until the lug nut stops moving as indicated in the instructions

 

[scott37300]

So what about using an 80 Ft. LB. and than finishing off with a Torque Wrench to the 100 Ft. Lb. required?

This would solve the problem of over torquing right?

Lazy? Maybe, but I would just really like to be able to use my 18V cordless to put on and take off my wheels.

This is what I do. I have a small one, think it's 60 ft/lbs or so. I use it to run all the lugs on without worrying about over tightening them since most of mine are 90-100 ft/lbs. Then use my torque wrench to do the final torquing. Not lazy, just a way to run the lugs on without over tightening.

 

[BHH]

This is what I do. I have a small one, think it's 60 ft/lbs or so. I use it to run all the lugs on without worrying about over tightening them since most of mine are 90-100 ft/lbs. Then use my torque wrench to do the final torquing. Not lazy, just a way to run the lugs on without over tightening.

Awesome thanks for the response!

 

[Farmer Joe]

They way we're supposed to do it at my job is use the torque stick, which is limited to60 ft lbs after hand starting the lugs, then drop it down to the floor and use the big ol' snap on torque wrench to finish them off. But honestly, if you're just smart about it and not lazy, you can just use your impact without having to go hunt for the shop torque stick. I start the lug nuts by hand, and then with my impact on the lowest setting run them down until the hammer hits 1 time, then I drop it down to the ground and use the torque wrench. I know what my impact is capable of and how to use it by now, plus I'm not stupid or lazy, so I see nothing wrong with the way I do, and I never over torque because of my impact.

There are some vehicles that have a real low lug nut torque, like 62-67, in those instances I only run them down with the impact until JUST before the hammer hits. I think you just got to use your head and not be lazy. It doesn't take "30 seconds" like someone else said, but it's a few minutes to make sure you did it safely and correctly.

 

[Mr.Nutcase]

Where I work we use torque sticks, and then the torque wrench

 

[Skyline]

Nobody I know torques or uses torque sticks. Just a little zip of the impact, you don't have to hold the trigger but for a second or two and they are tight enough. I can't believe you guys are so **** about this, but I guess some guys with no brains hold the trigger until the nut won't turn anymore.

All that means is that you only know hack mechanics. Using a torque wrench for wheel studs in NOT ****. It is essential for making a vehicle safe. Even if using an impact does not cause a stud failure, it is likely to cause warped brake rotors and hubs. Since it only takes an exrtra couple of minutes to do the job right, and it's incredibly easy, there is simply no excuse for the incompetence you suggest is perfectly acceptable.

 

[G1GRANDEUR]

Always double check with torque wrench, at least on my car.

Though, never had any problem using torque stick itself.

 

[MO-Iron]

On the farm we have lots of implement tires on equipment that will only be pulled at tractor speeds ( less than 20 MPH). My goals when setting the lug nuts are: 1. Make sure the wheel is tight enough not to work loose
2. Not over torqued and break a stud bolt
3. Get the machine back in operation quickly as possible
I have grown really fond of a V28 Milwaukee impact gun and a set of torque bars for field work. The battery powered gun has a different "feel" than the air guns and the torque bars give me the confidence of meeting my goals. An added bonus of this setup is that I can send a helper to change a tire and not have to worry about the results. Truck wheels get the traditional torque wrench treatment.

MO-Iron

 

[boostedgt]

i'm not a hack like some people, i index the lug nuts

 

[Flash21]

This is what I do. I have a small one, think it's 60 ft/lbs or so. I use it to run all the lugs on without worrying about over tightening them since most of mine are 90-100 ft/lbs. Then use my torque wrench to do the final torquing. Not lazy, just a way to run the lugs on without over tightening.

^^^ This ^^^

I think they have their place when you select one about 2/3 of the final torque value. Zip the lugs down without worry about over torque and then finish the last 1/3 of the torque with your calibrated torque wrench.

The the lugs don't move with your torque wrench before you get the click for final torque, you have problems or over tightened. At that point, you might consider replacing the studs and lugs.

I do not endorse using them to get to anywhere near final torque and even worse without a torque wrench.

 

[MattPersman]

the "warping rotors" is a wives tale. you would have to really have some crappy thin top hats on your rotors to make the non torque surface "warp". uneven brake pad deposits are typically the cause of the "warping" sure you could warp a rotor but its pretty unlikely especially from just putting the lug nuts on with varying torque values.

go to 95% of shops probably more just making that % up. but you will see 50% (again made up %) or more of the techs just hit the lugs with there 1/2 impact some all out, some think they have some calibrated light touch to make it right around 100 lol. I would rather see everyone use a torque stick than just a short socket on a WOT 1/2 impact gun at least you run less of a risk of breaking a stud.

if you are getting your personal wheels done somewhere and want an exact torque either become friendly with the guy working on your car and be nice to not try to out tech him and request him to use his best torque wrench at X torque value. or go home back them off and do it yourself. there is pride in work at a lot of shops, some there is none, but the flat rate rat race will bring items like torque sticks to play for speed because lets face it, over the course of a day or week torquing 20-40 lug nuts per vehicle would be quite time consuming. whats next ask us to do them in 3 incremental steps?

 

[Skyline]

if you are getting your personal wheels done somewhere and want an exact torque either become friendly with the guy working on your car and be nice to not try to out tech him and request him to use his best torque wrench at X torque value. or go home back them off and do it yourself. there is pride in work at a lot of shops, some there is none, but the flat rate rat race will bring items like torque sticks to play for speed because lets face it, over the course of a day or week torquing 20-40 lug nuts per vehicle would be quite time consuming. whats next ask us to do them in 3 incremental steps?

The problem with this plan, is that on some cars, if you go over the torque value by 30-40 lbs, the studs are ruined. This has happened to me on my G35. Got home, and when I went to loosen them and torque them properly, several literally fell off way before I got to the required torque.

On my Jeep, I also lost a rear wheel at about 50mph due to idiots at a tire shop not torquing them correctly. I had only minor damage to my Jeep, but I'm sure the driver of the van that my 33" tire hit head on was not too happy. It could have killed him; fortunately it just ruined his bumper, grill, hood, windshield, and dented his roof. If this poor guy had been injured instead of just having a few thousand of body work, I can only imagine the shitstorm of lawsuits that would have eventually involved the tire shop.

So if you think it's not necessary....stay away from my car. This is why I bring a pre-set torque wrench with me any time one of my cars needs a wheel removed.

 

[bobbyrae]

The problem with this discussion is that everyone seems to be assuming that their torque wrenches are very accurate, like maybe +/- 1%. No way! I bought a high quality torque wrench back around 1990 (company is Mountz), then took it back to them about 15 years later to have it calibrated. Their before and after tests showed that it was off by as much as 20% in some cases! And this was after using it just a few times a year over that period and leaving it set at the lowest setting when not in use.

So the torque sticks might be more accurate than the tool you are trying to double-check with!

My reason for using these torque sticks would be for situations where it is near impossible to use a torque wrench. Such as... tightening the crankshaft pulley bolt on a car with an A/T, or tightening the flywheel bolts when you can't find a ring gear holder tool.

And finally, when I consider the alternative that most tire stores have - tightening with just an impact gun - I am really glad that they at least TRY to get the right torque with a torque stick. One time I was trying to work on my mom's brakes, but couldn't get the damn lug nuts off , so I took it down to the local gas station that had an actual shop and had the guy re-tighten them. He used a torque stick and it had to be close enough because then I could get the nuts off at home.

 

[Packard V8]

One time I was trying to work on my mom's brakes, but couldn't get the damn lug nuts off

Now, imagine your mom with a flat tire forty miles from nowhere on a dark night in the freezing rain. She tries to loosen the lug nuts with that toy 8" wrench in the OEM tool kit.

Forty years ago, I was Service Manager at a Goodyear store. The tire busters were just leaning on the air gun until it stopped chattering. After a severely pissed customer who couldn't get his lugs off came in and yelled at me, I decided that had to stop. I bought a Craftsman beam torque wrench for each hoist and required every time a wheel went on a car, the guy mounting had to use the torque wrench and sign the work order he'd done so.

It didn't happen easily, because it was a lot more work for them. The hoist had to be lowered and the torque for the front wheels done on the floor. They fought it for a while, but do it right or do it somewhere else was what it took. Only had to fire one guy.

The Zone Manager saw the torque wrenches at work, I explained the reasoning. He carried the idea back to Akron and was a hero and he got a commendation for his innovation.

jack vines

 

[Farmall450]

You know, you're right, the only way to check it with a clicker would be to set it about 2-3 fl lbs above the torque being checked, and maybe that's still too close.

Or a hundred and work your way down.

 

[Farmall450]

Now, imagine your mom with a flat tire forty miles from nowhere on a dark night in the freezing rain. She tries to loosen the lug nuts with that toy 8" wrench in the OEM tool kit.

Forty years ago, I was Service Manager at a Goodyear store. The tire busters were just leaning on the air gun until it stopped chattering. After a severely pissed customer who couldn't get his lugs off came in and yelled at me, I decided that had to stop. I bought a Craftsman beam torque wrench for each hoist and required every time a wheel went on a car, the guy mounting had to use the torque wrench and sign the work order he'd done so.

It didn't happen easily, because it was a lot more work for them. The hoist had to be lowered and the torque for the front wheels done on the floor. They fought it for a while, but do it right or do it somewhere else was what it took. Only had to fire one guy.

The Zone Manager saw the torque wrenches at work, I explained the reasoning. He carried the idea back to Akron and was a hero and he got a commendation for his innovation.

jack vines

You didn't speak up when he was patronized?

 

[fredq]

I just picked up my VW Golf from a local mechanics shop. I brought a Craftsman click-type torque wrench with me to check the lug bolts. The VW specs say 86 lb-ft and the shop mechanic said he used an 80 lb-ft torque stick. The first bolt I checked required over 150 lb-ft to loosen. My torque wrench only goes to 150 lb-ft so I didn't push it further. The mechanic came out with his torque wrench and verified my reading. Most of the lug bolts were around 90 lb-ft but 3 or 4 were well over 100 lb-ft. I would have had one heck of a time getting the 150 lb-ft bolt off with the 9 inch wrench in the VW tool kit and my wife certainly couldn't. I've had this same experience at other shops and they all say "but we used a torque stick".

 

[larryforce]

Since I'm almost always using my 3/8" gun, I just set it on low and run the lugs down which ends up between 60-70 ft-lbs. Then I torque to spec. If using a 1/2" gun I use a torque stick, again before I torque to spec.

To me the only purpose of a torque stick is to gun lugs on quickly without overtorquing. I use them along with a torque wrench, not in place of one. Also, if the torque wrench clicks without the lug turning first, you've done it wrong.

The "I'm flat rate it takes to much time and costs me money" argument is ********. What does it take, 30 extra seconds to do it right?

This, at work our policy is to use a 65lb torque stick to run up the lug nuts on all trucks, we then finish them the last 1/8 - 1/4 turn with the torque wrench. its a win win situation.

 

[larryforce]

t, so let me share a little secret about torque sticks. Turn your damn gun down. I run all my wheels down with a torque stick and then chase with a wrench. If you don't pound on the sticks with an 800lbft gun, they won't over torque the nuts.

The jarring that my elbows take when i have a 65lb torque stick on my milwaukee cordless impact has taught me that lesson. (most of the time any way )

 

[larryforce]

Nobody I know torques or uses torque sticks. Just a little zip of the impact, you don't have to hold the trigger but for a second or two and they are tight enough. I can't believe you guys are so **** about this, but I guess some guys with no brains hold the trigger until the nut won't turn anymore.

I work for a rental fleet, every time I torque a critical bolt i kind of shudder to my self thinking, what would happen if this fell off? can you imagine the liability the company could face if a 5 ton truck lost a wheel and killed someone?

 

[larryforce]

The problem with this discussion is that everyone seems to be assuming that their torque wrenches are very accurate, like maybe +/- 1%. No way! I bought a high quality torque wrench back around 1990 (company is Mountz), then took it back to them about 15 years later to have it calibrated. Their before and after tests showed that it was off by as much as 20% in some cases! And this was after using it just a few times a year over that period and leaving it set at the lowest setting when not in use.

Wow, you dont ask for much do you? I feel very lucky, that at work we have a digital calibration checking device. I can set my torque wrench to what ever setting i need and check it on the machine. I dont need to do it often, but every once in a while, when my "calibrated elbow" second guesses my toque wrench i can double check.

I also believe that at work we are reqiured to use a torque wrench that has been calibrated professionally within the last 12 months. ( the shop has a loaner torque wrench if needed.)

 

[larryforce]

wow, i think i have posted more on this thread in 10 min then i have since i joined lol

 

[skylinegtr20]

The key is to set them against the wheel first and then torque down. Most people just zip them tight with the wheel hanging loose. That will over torque the wheel no doubt, its just like "jerking" a torque wrench... If you use them as indended and check there torque every so often they are very reliable. I have been turning wrenches for a long time and never had a wheel come off, or go loose. I have replaced a couple 80ft/lb sticks over the years due to the paint wearing off, SO replaced under warranty of course.

The same can be said with some peoples torque wrenches or how they torque the bolts... ALOT of people do not check their torque wrenches regularly, and ALOT of people torque bolts incorrectly.

 

[RedneckWelder]

We don't use torque sticks at work, not that my Nitrocat (which is what a lot of the guys use too) would work with them anyway

We use a proper torque wrench when tightening critical bolts/nuts.

Tires are one of those things where it's better to be safe than sorry and avoid being Speedy Gonzalez in an effort to save a few minutes work of doing it the right way.

 

[shaggymutt1]

I can tell you right now that using the 45 foot pound puts you at around 90! Thats on the lowest gun setting!

 

[Adam.C]

I just picked up my VW Golf from a local mechanics shop. I brought a Craftsman click-type torque wrench with me to check the lug bolts. The VW specs say 86 lb-ft and the shop mechanic said he used an 80 lb-ft torque stick. The first bolt I checked required over 150 lb-ft to loosen. My torque wrench only goes to 150 lb-ft so I didn't push it further. The mechanic came out with his torque wrench and verified my reading. Most of the lug bolts were around 90 lb-ft but 3 or 4 were well over 100 lb-ft. I would have had one heck of a time getting the 150 lb-ft bolt off with the 9 inch wrench in the VW tool kit and my wife certainly couldn't. I've had this same experience at other shops and they all say "but we used a torque stick".

Nope doesn't work like that. Can't put a torque wrench on reverse to check torque. All you are doing is measuring static friction.

You can try setting the wrench to 10% over target and tightening. If the bolt moves before it clicks, you are probably shy of the target. Determining how far over the target is harder. Likely, the lug wasn't properly cleaned or lubed.

Up to 40% of torque measured is reacted by friction under the head. 15-20% is friction in the threads. The rest is real pull up, but not always elastic deformation

 

[Adam.C]

I can tell you right now that using the 45 foot pound puts you at around 90! Thats on the lowest gun setting!

How are you determining this?

 

[Dust Devil]

Nobody I know torques or uses torque sticks. Just a little zip of the impact, you don't have to hold the trigger but for a second or two and they are tight enough. I can't believe you guys are so **** about this, but I guess some guys with no brains hold the trigger until the nut won't turn anymore.

Exactly, if you know how to use your tools you can do this. If torque is that critical to your application use a calibrated wrench.

Bring em down snug and tap tap done.

No need to blast anything into oblivion. Torque wrenches are for inside engines.

 

[RedneckWelder]

Torque wrenches are for inside engines.

That attitude right there would quickly put me in the unemployment line.

There is plenty of stuff outside the engine to be using a torque wrench on.

I don't use a torque wrench for every bolt and nut, but a lot of times there is a specific torque specification or procedure for various items (plus we have lots of torque and turn stuff, torque to *** ft-lbs and then turn ** degrees)

And I have seen the results of overtorquing where it doesn't seem to do any harm initially but a few hours of use later she lets go and causes major damage.

 

[Dust Devil]

Curious, what do you do a FT LB plus angle torque that is not inside an engine?

 

[Bigplum]

Wheel bearings / hub nuts!

 

[David Jackson]

In my experience torque sticks do a great job of warping rotors on lightweight Japanese cars. They may be OK for really heavy duty parts; but I have expeerienced enough ruined rotors so that I take my torque wrench to the tire guy and ask him to use it.

 

[David Jackson]

the "warping rotors" is a wives tale. you would have to really have some crappy thin top hats on your rotors to make the non torque surface "warp". uneven brake pad deposits are typically the cause of the "warping" sure you could warp a rotor but its pretty unlikely especially from just putting the lug nuts on with varying torque values.

go to 95% of shops probably more just making that % up. but you will see 50% (again made up %) or more of the techs just hit the lugs with there 1/2 impact some all out, some think they have some calibrated light touch to make it right around 100 lol. I would rather see everyone use a torque stick than just a short socket on a WOT 1/2 impact gun at least you run less of a risk of breaking a stud.

if you are getting your personal wheels done somewhere and want an exact torque either become friendly with the guy working on your car and be nice to not try to out tech him and request him to use his best torque wrench at X torque value. or go home back them off and do it yourself. there is pride in work at a lot of shops, some there is none, but the flat rate rat race will bring items like torque sticks to play for speed because lets face it, over the course of a day or week torquing 20-40 lug nuts per vehicle would be quite time consuming. whats next ask us to do them in 3 incremental steps?

"Warping Rotors a wive's tale" You could be right in some cases; but what about taking the car to have new tires installed and the rotors act warped as soon as we leave the garage?

The guys on this forum seem smart and responsible; I wish the people at some of our local shops were that way.

 

[skylinegtr20]

Curious, what do you do a FT LB plus angle torque that is not inside an engine?

Mercedes uses torque to yield on large amount of bolts on the exterior of the engine, drivetrain and suspension... Including wheel bearings and axle bolts as previously stated.

 

[Ruger_556]

Torque wrench to install wheels on automotive every time. It doesn't hardly take any longer. OTR class 8 trucks get a 3/4 gun with torque stick unless the customer asks for wheels to be installed with a torque wrench (Some do, propane companies especially).

 

[brass89]

I've used torque wrenches and torque sticks both. Didn't trust them at first (boss wanted them used) - random checking said the torque sticks were pretty close. Of course hammering on them while looking off into space can cause damage, not sure who does that. And tend to cringe at the guys who just run them on with a gun, no stick or torque wrench. Even if a torque stick is off by a little bit (few lbs), better chances of getting them even. Rather than one at 85lbs, one at 90, the next at 105.. that will cause issues. Same as the guys who ram the lugnuts on using them to center the wheel (invariably cocking it and the rotor) - rather than bumping them a few times and setting the wheel flat/flush/centered before putting any real pressure on them.

I haven't done any lab study on it, but I'd bet on it that improper install/hammering down can warp rotors. A cocked wheel/rotor will give a similar impression as a warped one. Just the weight of rotors themselves stacked flat in boxes at the warehouse warps them, had a good long fight with parts stores about that. Even new rotors hit the lathe before an install because they weren't true out of the box. One parts guy tried to say the lathe was out, not the product. Except physics won't allow for that. If the machine were out the rotors would've never trued at all. Even if on a set feed speed/rotation speed it somehow 'acted' true, then it would've been evident running a finish cut with a different feed speed and same rotation. Sometimes it's not 4w disc, and brake drums are thin as hell. Just look at a honda or nissan drum using bolts into the removal thread holes. A 3/8's socket by hand cocking the drum will visibly bend and crack the drum face (ie not working back and forth to remove it) so imagine what install (or sloppy install) does with some oomph behind it.

 

[fredq]

Recently had my VW in for alignment and tire rotation. When they were done, I checked one of the lug bolts with my Craftsman click type torque wrench to see what it would take to loosen it. Even at 150 lb-ft the wrench clicked and the lug bolt had not budged. The torque spec is 88 lb-ft for the lug bolts. Not all the bolts were over tightened but a couple of others were. The mechanic used a 90 lb-ft torque stick which should have been fine. I have had similar results at other shops. My theory is that at a certain frequency, the torque stick can experience a mode of torsional resonance such that it transmits far more torque than its rating. If the air gun is near this resonant frequency, it may occasionally overtighten the lug nuts/bolts.

My Craftsman torque wrench wasn't calibrated but I can easily tell by feel the difference between 80-90 lb-ft and 150 lb-ft so I know the lug bolt was way too tight.

 

[MikeF2316]

Recently had my VW in for alignment and tire rotation. When they were done, I checked one of the lug bolts with my Craftsman click type torque wrench to see what it would take to loosen it. Even at 150 lb-ft the wrench clicked and the lug bolt had not budged. The torque spec is 88 lb-ft for the lug bolts. Not all the bolts were over tightened but a couple of others were. The mechanic used a 90 lb-ft torque stick which should have been fine. I have had similar results at other shops. My theory is that at a certain frequency, the torque stick can experience a mode of torsional resonance such that it transmits far more torque than its rating. If the air gun is near this resonant frequency, it may occasionally overtighten the lug nuts/bolts.

My Craftsman torque wrench wasn't calibrated but I can easily tell by feel the difference between 80-90 lb-ft and 150 lb-ft so I know the lug bolt was way too tight.

I find with torque sticks, if the lug bolt/nut is spun down at full speed, the rotational inertia overtightens them. You need to spin them down slowly before banging away with the impact.

 

[shampoop]

Recently had my VW in for alignment and tire rotation. When they were done, I checked one of the lug bolts with my Craftsman click type torque wrench to see what it would take to loosen it. Even at 150 lb-ft the wrench clicked and the lug bolt had not budged. The torque spec is 88 lb-ft for the lug bolts. Not all the bolts were over tightened but a couple of others were. The mechanic used a 90 lb-ft torque stick which should have been fine. I have had similar results at other shops. My theory is that at a certain frequency, the torque stick can experience a mode of torsional resonance such that it transmits far more torque than its rating. If the air gun is near this resonant frequency, it may occasionally overtighten the lug nuts/bolts.

My Craftsman torque wrench wasn't calibrated but I can easily tell by feel the difference between 80-90 lb-ft and 150 lb-ft so I know the lug bolt was way too tight.

I find with torque sticks, if the lug bolt/nut is spun down at full speed, the rotational inertia overtightens them. You need to spin them down slowly before banging away with the impact.

Doesn't mean it didn't work. I'm not sure if torque wrenches work in reverse, but a guaranteed more accurate way to test would be to put your torque wrench to 95lbs or 100lbs and see if it budges in forward. My experience with torque sticks no matter how powerful the impact gun, how cheap the torque sticks are, or if you tighten them down at full speed, they are VERY accurate. I always use a torque wrench afterwards which is why i know. EX. you use a 70lb stick and set your torque wrench to 80 and it moves a very small amount before it clicks. And you can even tell the difference between short and long impact sockets, short sockets tighten it a little more.

How long was it between when you had your vw's lugs torqued before you removed them? Because unless it was the same day, it's expected to require multiple times more force to remove them than they were originally tightened to.

 

[Dcampbell98xj]

At my shop we use a 55ft lb torque stick and then torque with a torque wrench to the specified torque. We have 6 wrenches in the shop and we send 3 at a time to get calibrated every 3 to 6 months. There is no excuse to be lazy when torquing a tire. I have seen plenty of cars at my shop that have been towed to us after another shop did not torque properly and a wheel fell off.