How do you do it?

[jonjon1]

Theres a lot of great stories in here and good info for the younger guys starting their life.

I had my kids young, so did a lot of struggling 2 kids by the time I was 20, but we never go welfare and I was always lucky enough to have a job that gave medical. We had no rich families so when my youngest was 3 and my oldest was 5, we got daycare and sent my wife to school, all this while I was working75 hours a week in the winter and 65 in the summer {I was lucky enough to have a job that gave me all the overtime I could handle}, a while back me and my wife were going over how many hours were in a week because I was taking classes and still working 60+ hours a week, she was working part time and going to school full time and the kids never got to see us...
Somehow we scrape together $20K {saved} and buy a nice fixer upper multi family, I fix the second floor and live on the first after 1 month the second is livable and I rent it, the rent pretty much covers my mortgage, so I fix the first floor up.

The house next door goes up for sale {3 family} so I jump on it before a realtor can get involved and I steal it, bought it very fair BUT IT WAS IN NOT GOOD SHAPE, LOL...
So repeat I move into another shambled apartment and rent out my original house next door, now that house is paying both mortgages. 6 months fixing that 3 family in any spare time I could gather, it came beautiful. I am now collecting rents for 4 units {$650, 850, 850, 900 and the mortgages were $500 and $545!!!}

So now instead of pocketing that extra money I pound it into them 2 mortgages, I paid them off in 5 years...
so 5 years I am working 50 hours at my normal job, then starting my own business on the side, my wife is done with school and making good money. My kids are getting older, we are getting more secure, my business is doing well, so I quit my job and go full into my own business...

Now time flies, I went from 2 trucks to 8, I sold them 2 original properties for $250K more than I paid and I owned them outright, I buy and fix houses, then start buying land and sub dividing land, then building houses.

THEN my wife gets sick, early 30s and we are faced with how short life has the potential of being, she recovers {it was a scary time}, BUT we learn something, time is worth more than money, luckily we were in the position to do what we did, which was...
Sold my business, sold off 20% of my rental properties, paid off every loan my business had, and now I am semi retired as is she {35 and 36 years old}, she works with the kids a few days a week {medical field} and I run the real estate stuff day to day {takes about 40 minutes a day, lol, I employ a full time office manager}.

Last year we bought a 7 bedroom villa in Italy we are practicing spending time there, lol and we live here in new england, I spend a lot of time listening to music and waiting for the kids to get home from school, I live out in the woods, where no one can bother me, some days me and my wife spend the entire day together and don't even look outside...

this is where I hang out, no tv's allowed

best seat in the house

so you work hard, push forward, and have a bit of luck with some good decision skills, know how to swing a hammer, don't be afraid to go to work at 6a come home at 7p and work until midnight replacing knob and tube wiring with romex, then wake up in 5 hours and realize its monday morning and all starting over again.

 

[vision8]

Smart people learn by other people's mistakes.
Know your skills , limitations and plan for a life style that you can afford.
Been married for forty-five years; did not have kids until we were established ( ten years ) . Did a five year apprenticeship worked 60 hours a week and went to night school three nights a week for ten years to get a college degree.
Rented an apartment , kept the same monthly expenses to move to a townhouse , then kept the same monthly expenses to build a house meanwhile saving the extra cash. No vacations , no new cars ( vehicles either hand me downs or off lease fixers ). After twenty years bought a timeshare ( now six of us to accomadate , cheapest way to survive and still is our means of vacationing ).
Put $ 50.00 a month into a RESP for each kid ( a life saving decision ) ; all have used to their benefit ( three Master's Degrees, one college degree with an apprenticeship ) so no fear of returning home to live off of Mom and Dad !!
Finally retired after 45 years, house paid for, kids education paid for but no weddings were paid for ( Life's Choice ).
Built shed last fall ( first time doing a brake job inside on concrete in forty years ) ( Life's Choice ).
Did a month ( 8,000 km ) European drive around the Alps for our Fourth Anniversary and a month of Australia and New Zealand vacation ( No 1 - Bucket List want ) two years ago.
Life is choices; some people do not have any.

 

[Kevin54]

I would like to hear some more of the OP's situation as far as age, job, etc, We haven't heard anything back from him since the thread was started.

Everyone's situation is different, location plays a huge part in things, job(s) of course is the main vein of getting ahead, and we are comparing notes with one another. If we knew the OP's situation, we may be better able to give a little better constructive advice.

So what say ye jbailly?

 

[brianh]

Like so many others I never got in debt for non essentials my only debt was the mortgage, I paid that off in seven years while friends were buying campers and boats on credit I was opening cd accounts when they actually paid good interest. I fix repair and build just about everything we have.

I worked for years out of a 700 sq foot shop I built out of pocket until I got enough to put up my 40x60 I had help pouring the slab and putting up the heavy part of the steel frame after that I did the rest myself to save on labor took a year to finish while still making a living.

Its paid for itself at least twice already.

My tools are not just toys they make me money.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Like others have said, work hard and be smart with your money, make and stick with a budget. Try to make some money on the side or work OT when it's available.

Do everything you can possibly do youself and pay to have other complete as little as necessary. If you don't know how to do something, learn to do it and learn from your mistakes.

Things take time and won't happen overnight unless you win the lottery or get a huge inheritance. Look for sales and watch the deals. Don't be afraid to buy decent used tools and such if they are worth it.
The first 8-9 years after I got out of the Marine Corps and got married, I didn't have a garage. We bought our place in 2000 and it has been a work in progress since. My garage desperately needed a new concrete floor as the previous 75 years had taken it's toll. I had done some work, bit by bit and project by project. When I started my refurb thread in 2010, it really got the ball rolling and I made a lot of progress, putting other things (Mustang with a split block and racing) on the back burner.

Be patient, heed the advice from your fellow GJ members, make a game plan and bust your *** reaching your goals.

 

[Joe69]

I learned the difference between "Want" and "Need" There are lots of things that I want but few that I actually need, for the last few years I have been wanting a lathe and a mill but have been un able to find either at the price point that I am will to spend for a tool that will not increase my income and be a fun / hobby toy.

This is key! I have to convince myself before I make a major purchase.

Case in point. I saved up and bought a 115v Lincoln. I wanted to upgrade for years, but couldn't justify it. I finally got the right excuse to upgrade. My Dad was wanting to learn to weld. I gave him my old welder, freeing me up to get a 211 Miller.

Joe

 

[barnjunkie]

Difficult route to building wealth- (my life)

Work steady (whatever the pay), don’t piss away money on eye candy, save continuously, live within your means, make smart decisions with your money, don’t think you need to keep up with the Jones’s (they owe a lot of money by the way), don’t pay people to do stuff that you can do or learn to do by reading and asking people, stay away from bank loans and credit cards, make sure your partner has your same goals in mind, don’t have a bunch of kids you can’t afford, don’t marry a deadbeat woman, invest in things that are likely to increase in value, and keep doing these things for at least 30 years.

Easy route to building wealth– (don’t get me started)

Inherit a lot of money (the only respectable way to build easy wealth), or rob, steal, cheat, owe everyone money, acquire entitlements, or just hold someone for ransom.

 

[jonjon1]

Like so many others I never got in debt for non essentials my only debt was the mortgage, I paid that off in seven years while friends were buying campers and boats on credit I was opening cd accounts when they actually paid good interest. I fix repair and build just about everything we have.

I worked for years out of a 700 sq foot shop I built out of pocket until I got enough to put up my 40x60 I had help pouring the slab and putting up the heavy part of the steel frame after that I did the rest myself to save on labor took a year to finish while still making a living.

Its paid for itself at least twice already.

My tools are not just toys they make me money.

Doing a lot of stuff yourself helps a lot, that is key, I am a watch and learn guy, so a long time ago when a friend of mine said "they are coming to change my well pump today" I went over and watched them do it, asked a few questions and paid attention" now I know how to do it, so when my well pump went I didn't have to pay anyone to change it. He paid $2100 to change his, years later when my well pump died I paid $650 for the pump and installed it myself.

Same thing when I started rehabbing houses, there are things you just can't know unless you are taught, and I admit I used some of them "improve you home" books, I still have them, lol I Havent opened them in a while, but I have built houses that touched 7 figures and only subbed, foundation, granite, and roofing, and it started with them books...

 

[bobemmerich]

No doubt that Connecticut is an expensive place to live. Good to see another CT member.

Yep, No doubt about it. Good thing the economy is still going here.

 

[Hpozzuoli]

Geography plays a big role in this. Different parts of the country are relatively cheap compared to others.

Aside from your home base, your personality and drive will determine your success. Sometimes folks get lucky breaks and stuff handed to them....don't expect or count on this method. Determine what you want, make a plan, and go get it.

 

[TonkaJoe]

I'm only 28, I remember having a paying job in grade 8! I worked in a grocery store all through school as much as I possibly could. After I graduated high school I went on to trade school and ended up with the current job I have in a large mining Operation. From there it just went from one thing to the next.. for the last several years I've worked my *** off.. all the OT I could handle, didn't blow it on stupid stuff, didn't party my *** off.. just saved, saved, saved and made goals for myself each year financially. Yes I'm very fortunate to have landed a career with such a large well paying company but I definitely don't take it for granted for one minute... from this job I have also been able to secure a very good snow removal gig for the winter months on top of my full time job, and I occasionally work in construction in the summer months or farm on top of my full time job. If you want something bad enough you'll work to get it!. I suppose I should also clarify that I do not live beyond my means what so ever...as long as I can live comfortably I'm happy. And just as the history I noted above I also work hard to play hard...

 

[James-W]

Most of the tools I have were not purchased in ten minutes, they were bought over a lifetime. I bought the tools we needed to work on the house and of course when you buy decent tools they last a very long time. With very few exceptions I still have the tools I bought many years ago.

The larger garage we built a few years ago because when my older brother died he left me all his tools and the garage we had was too small to hold all of his tools and mine. So we built the bigger garage out of necessity, but now that we have it I can't help but wonder why we didn't build it many years ago.

 

[jives]

I'm going to use as an example of why college sometimes does not work.
By the time many people are 31, any enterprising person, they have so much experience and knowledge and savings that they are becoming ceo's or opening their third shop or store.

College isn't always the answer. Nine years and you make what a four year teacher makes. I'm certainly not bagging on you, it's just important to sometimes quash the 'you can only get ahead if you go to college' mantra.

Again, I use you as an example only due to the facts you posted and nothing more.

My example was not to show that college is the only route, let alone the best. It is not. I went to college and grad school to pursue what I wanted to do, not to make money. My example was only to show that even after starting real work at 31, patience and financial planning works.

 

[Wanna Ride]

Waiting until 31 to get a real job, and going to school for 9 years? Yeah, that shows a lot of work ethic.

 

[BTMSUP]

Waiting until 31 to get a real job, and going to school for 9 years? Yeah, that shows a lot of work ethic.

There are some judgmental folks around here. Maybe you didn't read his post. He is using "real job" as a job in the field he went to school for. I would assume he was working prior to that.

To the OP I agree with a lot of what is said here. I am on the young side of this group, not yet 30. I have never been smart with my money however I have worked my *** off since I was 15 and have made some dumb luck investments in both businesses and people.

I however disagree with not buying new cars, or a boat, or whatever. If that is what you want and your working for than buy it. My personal view is that I may not get a tomorrow. So I will dream like I will live forever, and live like I could die today.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have a close relative that is exuberantly wealthy.

If this is your goal in life, it will be difficult to attain. You should strive to be happy. Not the happiness derived from drugs or alcohol, but the happiness that you can only get from life and people. Money does not guarantee happiness.

You will be happier in a job you really enjoy that pays "average", than with a job you hate, that pays well.


The best modern advice I have heard comes from Mike Rowe ("Dirtiest Jobs"). Worker Harder AND Smarter than all of the others in your profession !


To that I will add "live below your means". My children actually thought we were poor growing up. Home made clothing. Very few non-home made meals. No big trips/vacations. No concerts. Very few movies/professional sports events. I have never golfed or had other "expensive" hobbies. I drink, in moderation, at home or with friends, seldom at restaurants/bars. I have owned my home for over 20 years and have not had a car loan in over 25 years.

I am retired, sitting on a nice nest egg, still living the same way. Well, trying to fund 5 grandchildren college funds is a challenge !

 

[ducksface]

If this is your goal in life, it will be difficult to attain. You should strive to be happy. Not the happiness derived from drugs or alcohol, but the happiness that you can only get from life and people. Money does not guarantee happiness.

You will be happier in a job you really enjoy that pays "average", than with a job you hate, that pays well.


The best modern advice I have heard comes from Mike Rowe ("Dirtiest Jobs"). Worker Harder AND Smarter than all of the others in your profession !


To that I will add "live below your means". My children actually thought we were poor growing up. Home made clothing. Very few non-home made meals. No big trips/vacations. No concerts. Very few movies/professional sports events. I have never golfed or had other "expensive" hobbies. I drink, in moderation, at home or with friends, seldom at restaurants/bars. I have owned my home for over 20 years and have not had a car loan in over 25 years.

I am retired, sitting on a nice nest egg, still living the same way. Well, trying to fund 5 grandchildren college funds is a challenge !

If you had got a better paying job instead of being so selfish as to get a job you love, putting your good being ahead of your children's, they wouldn't have been denied so much as a child. Maybe a trip to somewhere, anywhere, might have opened a door for them. Let's say a job you only moderately liked paid $24,000 more a year. You could have lived the same lifestyle and sent them to Paris or Harvard for school, allowed them common courtesies, fully funded the grandkids education before they were even born and possibly allowed your family something beside the pure drudgery you describe.

I read it as you denied your children and family so you could be happy.

 

[Tool.Nerd]

I don't think he "denied" his children--I think he taught them how to survive and flourish.

Getting a job you like will give you a better chance of success career-wise, too. It's much harder to motivate yourself and climb the "corporate ladder" if you hate sitting at a desk.

My biggest regrets were getting in debt--had I better discipline, I would have had several $$$ more per month to increase the quality of life. In combination with not getting deep in debt, getting a job you can tolerate (i.e., not dread getting up to go to work every day) and you'll have plenty of stress margin left over to deal with other important things in life. Have an emergency fund. Save half of everything you earn. You'd be surprised how many kids I've heard about in college that give away their text books at the end of the semester but yet they have to take out a student loan for the next year--when selling the books back for a better deal than the college bookstore would have paid for a small but significant portion of the tuition. The inability to plan ahead financially seems to be linked to the "go out and buy it because checking account balance "A" exceeds price tag "B"...

Get denied an insurance claim. That'll teach anyone to live well within their means. Spending $100 one day at Home Depot for a tool is nothing, if you've saved five times that every month in gas, car payment, and insurance by commuting to work with a daily driver instead of a luxury shitbox that will depreciate faster than you can pay it off.

 

[Dataguy]

Waiting until 31 to get a real job, and going to school for 9 years? Yeah, that shows a lot of work ethic.

Not every profession can be learned OJT. Some things take a lot of education to accomplish. For example, you can't learn to be a surgeon in your spare time: it takes pretty much all the time you have + 10% more until you are 30.

Back to the topic at hand. I don't have the Garage Mahal (love that term), but we're in good shape financially. Started off in the Navy, learned electronics and a few other things while I was there. After 8 years I got out and got a job as a field tech in the cellular industry, driving around in a truck and working on cell sites. My area was in the boonies, spent a lot of time on two-track mountain roads.

Got let go and signed on with another cellular company, eventually worked my way into the switching office. Also went to night school for about 7 years, got a B.S. in Information Systems. It takes a loooong time to finish a degree at night.

Ended up working for a company that made software for the telephone industry. Spent 4 years there, then the economy tanked and I was laid off. Started my own consulting company, working on that same software system. That was almost 12 years ago, and now I have 3 partners and about 50 employees. I make very good money, but it was a long road to get here.

Much like others above me, the standard advice:

1. Pay yourself first. Put money into some sort of retirement plan from the very beginning. Personally, I think the 401k revolution has been a bad deal for most people, because most people can't/won't think to the future. However, I could see 30 years ago that retirement just depending on Social Security didn't look that great. I have't always been able to max out my retirement contributions (life does get in the way), but I've always contributed what I could. Start rolling that snowball early!

2. Live within your means. That's a bit different for everyone, and it doesn't mean never splurge. But don't go into crazy debt for toys. Mortgages and car loans are just a fact of life starting out, but buy a house you can afford without consuming too much of your pay, likewise with a car. To quote Robert Heinlein: " Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity." Being broke all the time is no fun.

3. Have an emergency fund. I'm amazed by the people I see who have a sudden expense (refrigerator goes out, car acting up, washing machine coughs and dies) and it's a huge panic. Not so much a 20-something who is starting out, but people my own age. You should always have some cash in the bank for this stuff. Again, start adding money a bit at a time. It's not so important that you build it immediately as it is that you add to it regularly. Financial security is a function of good financial habits.

4. Setbacks will happen. Pick yourself up and keep moving forward. I tried my hand at investing in individual stocks when I rolled a 401k into an IRA account. I managed to turn 7 years worth of savings into about $4k worth of nothing much. I learned I'm not cut out for investing in stocks, at least not while I'm working. I may try again some day when I have more time for research, but for now I stick with mutual funds and EFTs.

5. Get good, cheap financial advice. There are a lot of financial advisors out there, and a lot of them charge far too much for their services. You can get good funds with low expenses from Vanguard, Fidelity, and many other companies. There is a wealth of knowledge available for free on the internet. If you are comfortable with doing it all on the web, you might try Wealthfront or Betterment. They are investment companies that are completely algorithm-driven, and they have extremely low costs.

6. Quality, not quantity. If you enjoy something, save up for what you want instead of getting a series of crappy compromises. When we were young, we were considering purchasing a piece of art that cost more than we had ever paid for something decorative. The dealer said "rather than buy a bunch of prints at K-Mart, buy one piece of decent art per year. Eventually, you'll have a nice little collection of pieces that actually have some value, instead of cheap stuff you'll just end up throwing away." We've followed that advice and it's worked well for us. Did the same for our first stereo: it was expensive, but I'm still using it and it still sounds good. And of course, that applies to tools.

I kind of feel the same way about cars. We have purchased several new cars, because they are usually low maintenance. But we drive the wheels off of them. Our first sedan after we had our daughter, we kept that car for 14 years as our daily driver. We kept our first pickup truck for about 16 years. Buying new can be as cost-effective as buying used *if* you keep the car for long enough. Trading them in every couple of years is costly. Our current daily driver (Honda CR-V) is a 2006 with 150k miles on it, and I hope to keep it for a few more years yet. So far, so good.

7. The good life requires running like a diesel, not a dragster. You start off more slowly, but the more you save and the bigger your net worth gets, the more "torque" you have. The sad truth is, the folks with more money get better deals on a lot of stuff. If you have $10k invested with Company X, they'll charge you one rate for their services. If you have $250k invested with them, you'll get a lower rate for their services. So start saving as soon as possible. I'm a fan of some (not all) of Dave Ramsey's writings, but I do like this quote: "If you will live like no one else, later you can live like no one else." If you're a bit frugal when you are young, you'll have money that none of your friends have when you're a bit more mature.

Sorry to be so long-winded, apparently I had more to say than I thought!

 

[ducksface]

I get your argument, and it supports mine.
Had he strived to a higher paying job he could tolerate (your word used to describe an acceptable position) he would have the extra money.
He said a job you love is worth denying your family.

 

[Ray916MN]

If you had got a better paying job instead of being so selfish as to get a job you love, putting your good being ahead of your children's, they wouldn't have been denied so much as a child. Maybe a trip to somewhere, anywhere, might have opened a door for them. Let's say a job you only moderately liked paid $24,000 more a year. You could have lived the same lifestyle and sent them to Paris or Harvard for school, allowed them common courtesies, fully funded the grandkids education before they were even born and possibly allowed your family something beside the pure drudgery you describe.

I read it as you denied your children and family so you could be happy.

A bit harsh of an assessment in my opinion.

Social psychology studies of worker efficiency and success and organizational success show a direct connection with employee passion for a job and individual success and organizational success. An employee motivated by more than just money will generally do a better job than an employee motivated solely by money.

While bucking up and sucking it up can be a good thing or a necessary thing, those who find and follow their passions can be much more successful. They are also much likely to be happier. The great sacrifices that some of the passionate have had to make to become successful are rarely seen by them as sacrifices.

 

[BTMSUP]

A bit harsh of an assessment in my opinion.

Social psychology studies of worker efficiency and success and organizational success show a direct connection with employee passion for a job and individual success and organizational success. An employee motivated by more than just money will generally do a better job than an employee motivated solely by money.

While bucking up and sucking it up can be a good thing or a necessary thing, those who find and follow their passions can be much more successful. They are also much likely to be happier. The great sacrifices that some of the passionate have had to make to become successful are rarely seen by them as sacrifices.

Hey man, don't come in here using facts and logic. That is no match for those that can answer all of life's questions and tell you just how your life should be lived even with only parts of the info.

[emoji2]

 

[Tool.Nerd]

You do have to have a job you can tolerate. Unless you really luck up, that's about all you can ask for. And they don't hand those out for free. You have to shovel some **** and bust your buttocks raw and lay awake at night because you're so tired you can't sleep to get there.

And yes, you have to provide for your family, but you also have to give them some important gifts that aren't tangible in the process: like them watching you not buy something you want and could easily afford, simply because you shouldn't for whatever reason...

 

[lat905]

A bit harsh of an assessment in my opinion.

Social psychology studies of worker efficiency and success and organizational success show a direct connection with employee passion for a job and individual success and organizational success. An employee motivated by more than just money will generally do a better job than an employee motivated solely by money.

While bucking up and sucking it up can be a good thing or a necessary thing, those who find and follow their passions can be much more successful. They are also much likely to be happier. The great sacrifices that some of the passionate have had to make to become successful are rarely seen by them as sacrifices.

This is true----but the issue a lot of people get into is that what they really are passionate about doesn't pay worth a ****. Or there isn't a way to get into it. Or, there are so few openings and so many applicants that you can't do it.

I know lots of people who had a passion, went to college and buried themselves in debt to get a degree in whatever they thought was their path, and are unemployed, or employed in something totally different.

I knew a guy when I was a freshman in college----he was going to a well know engineering and business school majoring in History. Which is fine, but he didn't intend to teach history. 20 years later, I still don't see a lot of opening for history degrees outside of teaching. No clue what he is doing now, but there is a better than average shot that he spend $100k on a degree that he barely or never used.



You need to do something that you don't hate (if you can pull it off), and make money.

If you strictly go by what you are passionate about, or strictly go for money, probability of unhappiness or poverty are probably high.

Mix the 2, i.e., find something you can enjoy that pays well and has reasonable opportunity, and you have the magic formula.


Many of us do what we have to instead ofd what we want to do. The lucky ones do what we have to and at least don't hate it everyday. Thats life.

 

[Tool.Nerd]

Reminds me of something I saw a few years ago in the Machine Design publication (generally junk and product pushing, but sometimes useful): there was an editorial in the beginning about one of the people protesting "corporate greed" because there were no jobs available. She was an art history major or something like that, complaining about not finding a decent paying job despite having a 4 year degree. Ironically, the editor looked into jobs in her city and found an barrage of technical jobs requiring very little training or education (<6 months), all paying $60k/year or higher and overtime available if wanted.

Around here, there are quite a few entry level CAD tech job where all they had to do was take a few weeks of AutoCAD and then make changes to drawings when the bosses handed you "change paper" of what was required to be changed--ie you didn't even have to know what you were drawing. Apparently a few companies will pay $40-70k for that, with good benefits too! I'm glad I didn't know about these jobs when I was starting out! That's more than enough to drive a decent car, live a comfortable life, and have a garage and some tools and projects!

 

[lat905]

Reminds me of something I saw a few years ago in the Machine Design publication (generally junk and product pushing, but sometimes useful): there was an editorial in the beginning about one of the people protesting "corporate greed" because there were no jobs available. She was an art history major or something like that, complaining about not finding a decent paying job despite having a 4 year degree. Ironically, the editor looked into jobs in her city and found an barrage of technical jobs requiring very little training or education (<6 months), all paying $60k/year or higher and overtime available if wanted.

Around here, there are quite a few entry level CAD tech job where all they had to do was take a few weeks of AutoCAD and then make changes to drawings when the bosses handed you "change paper" of what was required to be changed--ie you didn't even have to know what you were drawing. Apparently a few companies will pay $40-70k for that, with good benefits too! I'm glad I didn't know about these jobs when I was starting out! That's more than enough to drive a decent car, live a comfortable life, and have a garage and some tools and projects!

Thats the truth. Either going into a trade or some technical field is the best bet these days. If you choose wisely the chances of unemployment are minimized and the salary is maximized.

 

[Ray916MN]

This thread is about harshness. It's about the **** you shoveled for seventy hours a week to get where you did, not about you taking a job you loved for less pay and shortchanging your family of your future because you couldn't do something you moderately, or greatly, disliked, you couldn't self sacrifice for them and the future you.
There is no handholding.
You speak of happy employees being more productive.
Unless they are paid piece work, this thread is about providing for family not your employer.

Why is this thread about harshness? Is it necessary for someone to shovel **** for 70 hours a week to succeed? If it is necessary to shovel **** for 70 hours a week to succeed then is finding shittier **** to shovel a key to greater success? Is this the only path to success? There are many ways to achieve success or are you suggesting that your way is the only way and anyone who doesn't follow it can not be successful?

In my career I have found the better the job I've done for my employer, the better the opportunities and compensation they have offered me. The happier I was with a job, the more I thought about it constantly. I enjoyed my work and in turn that helped make me successful at it. Are you suggesting that thinking constructively about a job constantly is unlikely to contribute to success, or are you suggesting that people can/should or naturally constantly think constructively about jobs they hate? Another way to relate what the studies show is that given equal aptitudes someone who loves what they are doing will out perform some one who doesn't. Out performing others is pretty fundamental to getting ahead, as best as I can tell.

I've worked 100+ hour work weeks and slept on an office floor. I loved my job. It was not a sacrifice to me, it was not ******, it was an opportunity for me to do what I enjoyed and succeed. No one asked me to do it, no one forced me to do it, and I did it completely and entirely for myself and no one else.

This thread to me is about how to get ahead. There are many many ways to get ahead ion my opinion.

 

[crewchief888]

well,
i "do it" with what i have.

i'm in my 2nd house, 2nd old lady,(going on 15 years with her now) weve been here 8 years, (lost the 1st one due to a divorce).

my garage is small 19x22. i rented a building a few years ago, but it just got to be too much hassle

no boats, no pools, no kids here at home anymore

we dont have new cars, her's is an '07, mines a '00.
i've had my '80 harley since '87...
i havent bought a gun for 7 years, and ended up selling it for money one year.

i dont own a cell phone, no home phone, she's got a pay as you go phone.

i've been wrenching for 30 years, all my tools & toolboxes are paid for,
before i make a purchase i ask myself, "do i really need this?"

90% of the time the answer is no, not really...

 

[sberry]

I wouldn't have a lot of what I got if I didn't need it. I wouldn't make this a hobby.

 

[Wanna Ride]

You girls can call it whatever you want, while you sip a latte in some silly coffee house.... but anyone who is a fulltime student for nine years, only to aspire to a mediocre-paying job, isn't what I'd call a hard worker.

I'm entitled to my opinion, and you're entitled to yours. Don't get pissy when they don't align. If someone doesn't want to be publicly criticized, don't post your personal affairs on an internet forum.

 

[sberry]

I can make a living with a bucket full of tools. As it is I am life support for other people places and things. I got as many wrong tools for the job as right especially when I started. I got most of it now, I get more efficient but lazier as I go. I try to make it a return or financial decision anymore vs something I want.
The wants work out about 50/50 and toys I got not much use for.

 

[PugetDude]

Here's my take: You have to find something you love to do, because you won't put forth the effort or stick with it if you don't.

To do well you have to also make a good income. Working harder doesn't work if you're making minimum wage, or have no promotion opportunities.

The trick is to find a job that you like that also offers a decent career and pay path. It isn't easy to find that intersection, but as many here can attest, it can be done, and is incredibly rewarding when you do. There have been many times in my career when I told myself " I can't believe they're actually paying me to do this..."

THEN......
SET GOALS- Short, near and long term. A short term goal might be to quit smoking, and invest the money spent. . A near term goal might be a better job. A long term goals is to be a millionaire by age 40. In any case, you need a way to measure how you're doing. When you meet a goal, move the goalposts back another ten yards...
LBYM-- Live Below Your Means. The most important rule, regardless of income..
SAVE- the earlier the better.
INVEST-Let compound interest work for you.
AVOID DEBT. Earn interest instead of paying it.
KIDS... cost money. Make sure they fit the plan if you intend to have them.
DIVORCE- costs money. Many people don't ever fully recover, emotionally or financially. Marry someone who has the same ambition, goals and values, you're doomed if you save and she spends. It's sometimes difficult to ascertain up front, but the if the warning signs are there, get out of bed and find someone who'll support your plan for financial independence, not sabotage it every time there's a sale somewhere... also, recognize when enough is enough...
RECOGNIZE OPPORTUNITY and be prepared to assess and analyze the risk/reward ratio. Act appropriately, not emotionally.
STAY THE COURSE- it's easy to lose sight of your long-term goals if you get complacent in the short term.
SURROUND YOURSELF WITH LIKE-MINDED PEOPLE. Hanging out with guys who cash their paychecks at the bar never helped anyone get to where you want to be.

I'll always remember the gist of a quote by Harvey McKay---

(Paraphrased) - Anyone who thinks that "If I could just become a millionaire, I'd never have to work again" isn't the kind of person who'll ever get there in the first place.

 

[wnstwolf]

Reading through this I am not sure what to add but I feel one thing that has hampered my true happiness is staying put for more than 5 years at a time. I have a job that is heavy on construction management and I need to balance being away from family with having an oasis to call mine many hours away. I have left three amazing garages behind as I packed up and moved. It's getting old and expensive. I can call it a day and not look to the next level of career of continuer to work hard and possibly pack up yet again.

I have worked hard since I was an young kid cleaning pools and cutting grass. I am now looking to get into upper management and have to say I am proud of the climb I have made over the past 25 years. My hope is to make this move the last for at least 10 years as my family needs stability for school. So how do I do it is a tough question as it is hard work and building great relationships at work and in personal life. End of the day you need to like what you do and keep work life balance in check. I need work on that but getting there.

 

[thammel]

Well, first of all everybody hasn't done it! I had a masters degree in engineering at 23 (42 years ago). I didn't get a house with a garage until I was 38. I'm still working full time. It is NOT easy. You need to plan for retirement, and taxes take a ton of money away. Children (who are wonderful!), divorce, and all the normal stuff take $$ away. Yep, I've had 2 garages built (moved once due to divorce), but I am doing a TON of work to complete the inside. How else do we do it? By doing ALL the car and house DIY work ourselves. No fancy vacations. No boats. Being frugal. And this is on a professional decent income. I wonder how my children will ever buy a house or retire. It isn't easy.

Tom

 

[Throbbin Rods]

I started mowing lawns and shoveling driveways at age 10. First "real" job at 14. I was a mechanic all through high school and many years after, Got allergic to batteries charging, left mechanics altogether and started in a factory. Went to night school to convert my AS in auto mechanics to a Business degree. While I was doing that I was flipping houses. I only slept about 3 hours a night. Got diagnosed with a hemorrhaging brain tumor at 39, emergency surgery, radiation. Kind of lost a step from all the poking and prodding, memory went to hell. At the time I was an IT Manager. Volunteered to take a job in Purchasing. Company actually gave me a raise as I was long term, had run several departments, had an excellent reputation. No longer able to exist on 3 hours a night, forgetting stuff, time to quit flipping houses. I was doing every bit of the work myself. Concentrated on wife, kids, job. Making decent money. Got sued for paternity of an 18 year old that I was told many times was not mine. Lost everything. Started over, then the economy took a dump and my position ceased to exist. I worked 10 hours a day delivering pellets and stoves, 10 hours a night cleaning. Got sick, had to stop. Then I got stupid. Cashed in my 401K after I found out how much money the ex had on the credit cards. Paid those off, paid some other bills. finally got back on my feet, crappy house, crappy truck. Got back into a management position. Sold Real Estate nights and weekends. Long term plan was to retire at 72, go full time Real Estate and put some money away. I was also working as a consultant on the side, money was good. Never had more than a 15 year mortgage, paid every house and car off years early. At age 58 I developed some weird *** breathing thing that has not gotten any better in 2-1/2 years. 31 Doctors, 73 tests, no clue. Had to take disability retirement. Many tens of thousands of medical expenses. Thank God for the years I made good money, that is the only thing that is saving me. When my Dad passed 3 years ago he had his small state pension split between my brother and me. I still buy boats to rehab and sell, my girlfiriend does the sanding, painting and carpet now, I stick to engines and trailers and move real slow. There are many months where I wouldn't be buying my meds without that $217 check from Dad. I have been up and I have been down, I never quit trying. I built my own garage at 3 different houses. I had never even built a bird house before the first one. they are all still standing. Do your best, try to stick to things you NEED instead of things you WANT. Don't be afraid to work. Keep getting up when you get knocked down.
Good luck.

 

[jives]

You girls can call it whatever you want, while you sip a latte in some silly coffee house.... but anyone who is a fulltime student for nine years, only to aspire to a mediocre-paying job, isn't what I'd call a hard worker.

I'm entitled to my opinion, and you're entitled to yours. Don't get pissy when they don't align. If someone doesn't want to be publicly criticized, don't post your personal affairs on an internet forum.

Somehow this thread got off track after my post about going to school for 9 years, and the quote above demonstrates a complete lack of understanding about persistence and hard work. Nine years is how long it took to get a PhD and become a research scientist and professor (MS degree then PhD). No latte, no coffee houses, no jackets with leather patches on the elbows. Rather, during my PhD I spent 18 hrs a day at school and in the lab, 7 days a week. Communicated with my new wife by post-it notes on the bathroom mirror. Made about $100 /week on research grant money. I did not aspire to a "mediocre paying job", but rather, a job of creativity, challenge, and yes, adventure of a scientist. A job that would permit stability for my family. I've got 6 kids, all happy and healthy. 19 years at my job that I love, and I bring that home to my family. If I continue at my current job, each of my children can go to college tuition free, which at current market value is worth about $700,000.

I understand that a parent making a minimum salary pursuing abstract dreams while his kids go without food is foolish and irresponsible to his higher obligations. But, to suggest that you are shortchanging your kids because you cannot send them to Harvard or vacation in Paris, is not a value system that I ascribe to. My kids have come to learn how fleeting such things are, but instead, the value of family, of community, and of faith.

Back to the OP's post, Having a "garage mahal" is largely a matter of perspective and thankfulness for what you have. For some people, a rickety carport is a blessing, and often these folks are no less satisfied with their lives than those with wealth.

 

[jives]

You girls can call it whatever you want, while you sip a latte in some silly coffee house.... but anyone who is a fulltime student for nine years, only to aspire to a mediocre-paying job, isn't what I'd call a hard worker.

I'm entitled to my opinion, and you're entitled to yours. Don't get pissy when they don't align. If someone doesn't want to be publicly criticized, don't post your personal affairs on an internet forum.

Somehow this thread got off track after my post about going to school for 9 years, and the post above shows a complete lack of understanding about doctoral work, and hard work. Nine years is how long it took to get a PhD and become a research scientist and professor (MS degree then PhD). No latte, no coffee houses, no jackets with leather patches on the elbows. Rather, during my PhD I spent 18 hrs a day at school and in the lab, 7 days a week. Communicated with my new wife by post-it notes on the bathroom mirror. Made about $100 /week on research grant money. I did not aspire to a "mediocre paying job", but rather, a job of creativity, challenge, and yes, adventure. A job that would permit stability for my family. A job that even after 18 years I love going to, a job offering immense flexibility, and a job that allows me to go to all my kids games and plays and other school stuff. I've got 6 kids, all happy and healthy. If I continue at my current job, each of my children can go to college tuition free, which at current market value is worth about $700,000. It is not a better job than anyone else's job, but it is one that required years of school and training.

I understand that a parent that is making a minimum salary pursuing abstract dreams while his kids go without food is foolish and irresponsible. But, to suggest, as one poster did, that you are shortchanging your kids because you cannot send them to Harvard or vacation in Paris, is not a value system that I ascribe to. My kids have come to learn how fleeting such things are, but instead, the value of family, of community, and of faith.

Back to the OP's post, Having a "garage mahal" is largely a matter of perspective and thankfulness for what you have. For some people, a rickety carport is a blessing, and often these folks are no less satisfied with their lives than those with wealth.

 

[justanengineer]

A lot of people don't do it. A lot of people are just above the financial trouble line.

^^^Best comment of the thread IMHO. Personally I capitalize on opportunities given by those who dont know how close to trouble they are - I attend their auctions, foreclosures, and otherwise buy from them regularly to improve my collection. The simple fact is that most live way beyond their means, and that includes most here. The sad reality is that they dont realize it, many actually believe themselves good with money while maintaining debt including mortgages, student loans, and car payments into their 40s and beyond. They often brag about their credit scores and hand out lame lines about how they make more investing than they lose paying their bills, lost opportunity-cost.....yada yada yada. If youre ever tempted to "leverage" your credit remember this - if its paid for they cant take it. If you owe a payment they can and will. I ran a few repos when I was still on the wrecker, many were surprised when their toys disappeared less than a week after the first missed payment, especially when they were $10k+ deep into a vehicle already.

Personally, I'm like many others. I havent "made it" yet at 31 due to a late start bc of the military, but Ill own my home outright in another 2-3 years, have stashed ~$150k into retirement in the last 4 years, and have close to a year's expenses saved in cash. I also lead a modest life, as mentioned most of my tools and toys are used as are my vehicles, my bills are reviewed monthly and regularly trimmed to the bone, and my garage is a 2-car. I've only ever gone into debt on two items - the mortgage and one car (got myself into a tight spot overleveraged on home renovations and vehicle projects, and it was a necessary evil). Once theyre paid off, never again. Maybe in another decade or two I can afford $20k on a bigger shop, but until then I'm comfy and more capable than most.

 

[Wanna Ride]

Like I said earlier, every time I've ever needed more money, more work would fix that problem.

My response to the gentleman with the 9-year PHD;
I didn't graduate high-school, dropped out in September of my senior year, and moved out of my mom & step-dad's single-wide trailer at the same time. He had zero ambition for anything that wasn't poured out of a pint-sized bottle. We often went without electricity for months at a time. And many other things that were not quite as luxurious as that. You know, a household phone, water, and often... dinner.

Immediately went into the workforce and thought I was rich, earning $5 an hour for 65+ hours a week. Showed a lot of ambition and initiative, and quickly started making more. Didn't take long to realize... work hard + learn lots = much more cash.

Did I enjoy that? Yep. But I also learned (on my own) that in order to keep that cash, you have to be disciplined, and wise. Of which, I wasn't always in my youth. But the money I spent, was mine, as was the debt. Fortunately, at an early age, I learned quickly from many of my mistakes. And today, after a long road, I have an executive position in a profitable industry. But I still work an average of 65+ hours a week, and I make a good living in this career. And I'm wise with my money. But because of all of that, there's two vehicles parked in my garage that are both less than two years old, and I owe less than a total of $3000 on the both of them. I have a newer Harley that I paid off in the first two years of buying it. I've since spent quite a bit on it, and done all the work myself. My home and big-*** garage are both paid for, of which I built with my own hands. Every nail, every shingle and every drop of paint. Some would call them modest, and some would be envious of them.

But EVERYTHING, every piece of furniture, every hand tool, every dish and appliance, every toolbox and every hand tool, are all bought and paid for. I do not owe a dime on anything I own, with the exception of the total balance on the two car loans. And I try to keep something financed all the time, solely for the purpose of maintaining a credit score over 750. We also own a small, residential cleaning company, which carries no debt. And outside the home we live in, we also own a total of about 96 acres, and a second home that is more valuable than the one we live in... we owe less than $50k on all of that real estate. All the while, our daughter is about to wrap up her second year of college, and we do not owe a dime on any of that as well.

We go on a week-long vacation once a year, and I go to Sturgis every year for two weeks, and while we use a credit card for those trips, we pay the balance off as soon as we arrive back home. We also have a comfortable cushion tucked away in several different resources.

I see a new fancy tool or something I want, I buy it. But I use my "mad money" account to do that, not any household account. I often look for every deal I can, to make a side hustle, to support that luxury. If there's a bike/car/truck/piece of machinery I can buy, flip and make a profit, I will.

You have your priorities, and I have mine. I dropped out of high-school 30 years ago, and never got another day of formal education. I'm not necessarily proud of that, but I know hard-work goes a long ways, and being dumb is expensive.

Call me materialistic... I sleep well at night, dreaming about new toys, and making cash.

 

[Ditch Doc]

www.daveramsey.com

We used this approach, which is simply common sense, hard work and responsibility. We started out 5 years ago $270,000 in debt. Now less than $20,000. Hard work, but worth it.

Renovating my barn next, but saving up for it. No more loans.


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