How good (or BAD!) did I do? Saylor-Beall 705

[XterraJohn]

I did it in the driveway and used a grease gun to build up the pressure. I tried to remove every bit of air that I could so as to hopefully not create an explosion if something were to fail.

 

[Shiftless]

Nope. There are no compressed gases of any kind used in hydro testing AND the vessel being testd is secured inside another water filled tank. You also were 100 Psig over the MAWP and test pressures of that vessel. Air is compressible, water is not. Leak testing with air at 30-50 Psig is just as effective as testing with water at 150 Psig.


Tommy

Thanks for filling me (us) in on hydro testing. But one more question...since water is not compressible, how do you put it under 300 or 200 or 100 or even 50 psi? Does the operator rely on the elasticity of the steel tank?

 

[XterraJohn]

Thanks for filling me (us) in on hydro testing. But one more question...since water is not compressible, how do you put it under 300 or 200 or 100 or even 50 psi? Does the operator rely on the elasticity of the steel tank?

I think it's almost impossible to get every last bubble of air out, so there's some compressibility there, as well as elasticity of the tank, the fittings, the pump and gauge, etc, That is my understanding, at least, but I'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say.

 

[slk320]

Leak testing and hydro-testing are two different tests (normally done with different purposes in mind)

Hydro-testing is for testing the mechanical integrity of the vessel and piping. It is often done at 150% of the design pressure of the system. As the name implies - the vessel should be 100% liquid filled with no entrapped air to ensure the safety of the test should the vessel fail.

Leak testing is often done with air or nitrogen (for dry systems) at a pressure no higher than MAWP. The purpose is to find leaks - often using a soapy solution that will reveal very small leaks as a bubble trail.

If there is any question as to the integrity of the vessel, doing a hydro-test first would prove the integrity of the system. Never use a compressible gas to prove integrity - failure vessel failure would be catastrophic.

Chuck

 

[XterraJohn]

Just a small update, but the new stationary switch came in today for the motor. After cleaning as much of the nasty grease out of it as I reasonably could I got the new switch installed and finished putting the motor back together.

Here's a before:



and after:

 

[sld961]

Looks good so far.

 

[Schurkey]

Far as I can see, that's the same pump, and the same motor as my compressor. I'm going to have to go look at my pump, to see if it's a genuine Saylor-Beale or a knockoff. My 80-gallon tank may be shorter/larger diameter--I'm not sure. I paid something like $1200 for the thing new, but that was around 2005--2006, I think.

There's a few differences that I notice:

1. Your small copper tube from check-valve at the top of the tank to the unloader housing of the pump is routed differently than mine. I like your routing better, but not so much that I'm going to change.

2. My compressor has a copper tube leading to the motor-side low-pressure intake valve. Yours doesn't. I'm not sure what that means. Gonna have to go trace that tube to try to figure out what it does.

3. My compressor pump has an aftercooler between the pump discharge and the tank check-valve. I can imagine that an aftercooler is useful especially in a situation where the compressor is running a lot. Probably not useful at all in light-duty, as the tank itself will throw off some of the heat.

I have a thread about removing/inspecting the pump valves. You might want to take a look at it:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324960

 

[XterraJohn]

I have a thread about removing/inspecting the pump valves. You might want to take a look at it:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324960

Awesome, that's definitely something that I'm wanting to do before I put everything back together.

 

[BCreekDave]

Thanks for filling me (us) in on hydro testing. But one more question...since water is not compressible, how do you put it under 300 or 200 or 100 or even 50 psi? Does the operator rely on the elasticity of the steel tank?

Don't confuse compressibility with pressurization. Air and other gases can compress. Liquids and solids can't. Technically under very extreme conditions they can, but let's just say they can't.

For a liquid in a closed vessel, the pressure is a measure of the driving force of the pump that is pushing the liquid into the tank. Even with the tank fully evacuated of air,as the pump pushes harder, the gauge needle goes up. If the tank ruptures, you have exceeded the yield strength of the tank material. If the tank is damaged or rusted, the expectation is that the localized yield strength in that area is less and the rupture will occur there.

The nice thing about this type of testing is that when the rupture happens it is not nearly as explosive. Picture pushing on a spring with your hand and it squirts off to the side. It flies all over the place. Now do it with a solid block. With the same force if it squirts off the side and goes nowhere.

 

[XterraJohn]

Using actual synthetic grease in the grease gun in order to pressurize the tank was not a smart move, in my opinion. I wasn't able to remove the larger ports on the tank and cleaning out an entire tube of grease mixed with random compressor nastiness (rust? carbon?) was disgusting.

I saw a thread that said that if the compressor was completely full of water then only a small amount of grease would be needed in order to bring the pressure up. I found that in my case that was not at all accurate. A thread on another forum said that it typically takes around 1.25 tubes of grease and I found that to be much closer to reality for my tank. I don't know if this was because of trapped air, elasticity of the tank, etc.

(Edited to show 1.25 instead of 1.5)

 

[BCreekDave]

I wonder if it would work if the grease gun were filled with oil?
With a large vessel 60 gallon +) there will be elasticity to allow for, but if the tank is well bled of air I would expect less than a equivalent cartridge size. The challenge is how best to bleed the air.


Sent from using Tapatalk

 

[chrispyny]

Have you considered determining if the paint baldor uses can be had in a can so as to touch up the paint on the motor?

 

[XterraJohn]

After the first tube of grease I started just filling up the gun with water. To some degree it leaked passed the piston, and in order to build pressure I found that I had to quickly squeeze the handle. If I did it slowly I guess it would just slip passed the piston instead of actually injecting.

 

[BCreekDave]

A "porta-power" type of pump would be ideal, but not many have one of those sitting around.


Sent from using Tapatalk

 

[Capt Chrysler]

So how do you get 1.25 tubes of grease out of your tank?

We had a ring set go bad on a compressor one time. What a pain in the *** to get clean air again.

Capt. Chrysler

 

[XterraJohn]

So how do you get 1.25 tubes of grease out of your tank?

It sure doesn't seem easy. I started by putting some degreaser in and then filling it half way with water. The grease floated to the top and a big glob of it drained out the side port when the water was just about even with it. It seemed like there was probably more, though, since what came out didn't look anywhere close to a full tube.

Seeing into the tank in order to determine if/where more grease was seemed extremely hard. Shining a flashlight in one port while looking in the other was pretty much useless. I ended up buying one of those cheap mini cameras that I could stick through one of the ports. That helped me see at least one other big mess of grease on the bottom of the tank, but that was about the extent of its usefulness.

I dumped a can of paint thinner in and then left it alone for about a week. During that time I went by the electronics parts store and picked up a small lightbulb and some wire and rigged up a bulb that I could insert into the tank through one of the ports and then look through the top port to get a good view as to what was going on in the tank. Shining a flashlight through one of the ports and trying to look around was almost impossible. I found that not only was there a good bit of grease on the bottom of the tank but there was also quite a bit of sediment.

The paint thinner softened up the grease to a yogurt like consistency, but it wasn't runny enough to drain on its own. I picked up a copper ice maker installation kit and a fitting to attach it to the end of my hose. With that I was able to spray water in specific areas of the tank in order to flush the grease and sediment towards the drain. This caused another problem, however, in that the drain was only 1/4 inch and would easily clog with grease and sediment and then the tank would just start filling with water instead of draining. To solve that I had my wife man the hose while I played on the ground and poked the drain hole with a long screw to dislodge blockages. Eventually I got the idea to flip the tank over and spray water through the drain so I could flush the contaminants out through the 3/4 inch fill hole.

After all of that it seems reasonably clean. I may do another degreaser rinse but I think the vast majority of the solids are all out of the tank.

 

[Schurkey]

I'd have left the grease in the tank. It's not like it's going to cause any damage, especially if you aren't painting with the compressed air. Eventually, I'd expect the grease would blow out the bottom as you drained water. Who cares if there's grease inside the tank?

 

[DirtyJersey]

I'd have left the grease in the tank. It's not like it's going to cause any damage, especially if you aren't painting with the compressed air. Eventually, I'd expect the grease would blow out the bottom as you drained water. Who cares if there's grease inside the tank?

This!
I drilled out a hole, welded a bushing in and setup a drain with ball valve.
Word of caution, setup a catch of some type to catch that aerated grease! Lol
Unless of course you want it ALL over.

Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

 

[Social_Joe]

IMHO you did well just finding an 80 gallon Sayler-Beall with a single phase motor, most are 3 phase and you'd be pushing $500 to convert is over to single.

 

[XterraJohn]

I made some actual progress today on something other than washing out the tank. The makings of my manifold:







After that it was on to wiring up the magnetic starter:







The flywheel and motor sheave should get here Tuesday. In the mean time I went ahead and ordered a rebuild kit for the pump. I figure I will start with just doing the valves and head unless anything else obviously needs my attention.

This is starting to get a bit expensive. Money spent so far, not including miscellaneous pipe fittings/wire connectors/etc.:

Compressor (used).......................................$550.00
Flywheel & Sheave........................................$373.07
Rebuild Kit...................................................$205.00
Stationary Switch..........................................$48.22
On-Off Switch/Indicator Light/Misc. Electrical....$41.84
Magnetic Starter Enclosure (used)...................$32.95
Pressure Switch............................................$30.84
Air Filter.......................................................$25.65
Pressure Gauge.............................................$13.46
Pressure Relief (200psi)..................................$5.89
Pressure Relief (70psi)....................................$13.67

Total..........$1,340.59

In other words, so far it's right around the same price as that Quincy QT-54 I had my eye on at Northern Tool.

 

[golferguy]

Don't forget all the brass,looks good so far.

 

[Brad J.]

Looking good. That 705 is better piece than the Quincy reed valve pump you were looking at.

 

[XterraJohn]

It's starting to look like an air compressor again. Yesterday I took the head and intercooler off, rebuilt the valves, and cleaned out the crankcase. I pulled one of the rod caps to take a look and there looks to be very little wear on the bottom end. There's still lots of visible cross-hatching in the cylinders, but from looking at the valves it looks like someone has been in there before so maybe they re-honed the cylinders at that point.

Today I worked on getting some dents out of the belt guard, painted it, and then installed it and the flywheel, pulleys, and belts. I'm still waiting on some ring terminals before hooking everything up inside the motor junction box, but after that I think I should be ready for a test run.

 

[XterraJohn]

It runs!

Unfortunately, there's still a wobble on the flywheel in spite of it being new, so I'm guessing the crankshaft has a bend in it. I don't imagine it's enough to be a real problem, but it's just enough to irritate me.

I uploaded a video of it running.

 

[600SL]

It runs!

Unfortunately, there's still a wobble on the flywheel in spite of it being new, so I'm guessing the crankshaft has a bend in it. I don't imagine it's enough to be a real problem, but it's just enough to irritate me.

I uploaded a video of it running.

Did you dial indicate the shaft?

 

[XterraJohn]

Did you dial indicate the shaft?

No, I sure didn't. A dial indicator is on my wish list but I don't have one yet.

 

[rjk698]

I Just got a used Saylor-Beall 5 hp / 3 phase VF-735-60 here in Southeast lower MI for 400.00 with 30 day return for full refund clause, I was installed in a dry cleaners in its previous life 1993 model, rented a dropdeck trailer for 40 bucks and moved it with my S10 , I am pretty happy so far, gonna check the tank drain tomorrow and get my electrician buddy to wire it up and see what we have should be all good we will see.

 

[maxpower_hd]

That's a great price. I am looking at an upgrade myself. But mine will be $750.

 

[rjk698]

We powered up the compressor this morning,, all good everything works as it should,, need to replace the ball valve on supply side that's all, happy camper here