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How much impact do I need?

Wamsutta

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BOLT. Engine Crankshaft Pulley And Balancer
3/4''-16 x 3.0'' (111 lb ft. + 76 degrees)
GM 24504736

BOLT. Front Frame Cross Member
M14 x 2.0 x 103mm (141 lb ft.)
GM 11517701

Those are the two bolts I'm guessing are the tightest on the whole car.

How much breakaway torque would they require?
 
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dsimatt

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1/2" impact that's a quality brand either battery or air will have no issue loosening them, turning the 1st might be a issue going together.
 

619DioFan

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I think a lot has to do with whether they have been loosened before and if any corrosion is present. for example honda crank pulley bolts are not torqued that tight but are known to be a bear to loosen. the axle nuts on my 95 dodge ram take a 1-11/16 socket and are torqued to around 170 lbs if I remember. the first time I needed to remove them they laughed at my 1/2 inch air impact that is rated at 800 breakaway. they DID NOT laugh when I used a 40'' long 3/4 drive breaker bar and hit that with my 280 lb self. get the strongest gun you can find IMO. since I bought the 1/2 fuel I haven't run into anything that failed to loosen ( as a DIYer )
 

plinker

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IME the 76* could run about 150lb or thereabouts. With a techangle wrench, the angle display will show the foot pounds exerted when it's done. Kind of an interesting feature.

Any decent 1/2 impact should work. Breakaway torque is a marketing gimmick of sorts. Corrosion and/or thread compound will vary how much torque is needed

I have used a 3/4 gun on a Honda CR-V crank bolt before, otherwise my Matco 2767 or M18 high torque are about the same, torque wise, and have done what I've needed.
 

pstemari

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Does the use of a threadlocker, say Loctite 242 (blue), help with the corrosion aspect? I assume using anti-seize on bolts like that would be a bad idea.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

Den69rs96

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My dewalt mid torque impact is rated at 330 lb ft. It removed the lugs on my truck like they were loose and they are torqued to 140. The caliper brackets on my 2015 Silverado are torqued to 170, but they had lock tight on them. The dewalt impact couldn’t remove them, but my HF earthquake 1/2 air impact had zero issue. I would get a high torque cordless or quality air impact.
 

seanb02

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I would say that is a question best left to your local Snap-on guy. That way he can sell you the most expensive impact on the truck and you can post for years about how great Snap-on impacts are versus all other brands of "junk".

Jesting aside, really it will depend on the amount of corrosion present on the fasteners and if they were in fact actually tightened to the proper specification and not over as well as the possible presence of loctite.

If this is a tool purchase strictly for those few bolts on your own car I would advise just using a breaker bar as you won't get enough use out of a battery impact to justify having it sitting around for years and the batteries are junk before you have worn the tool out. Or if you are looking into air impacts, those will last for many years but the amount of torque will also be dependent on the air supply you have available. You did not specify electric or pneumatic.
 

vanapplebomb

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Mass is everything with impact guns because the torque they produce is a function of impulse.

Torque ratings of impact guns really are meaningless. For instance, if you have a small diameter standard depth socket on an impact gun, you can put loads of torque down to the nut. If with the same impact gun you now use a very large deep wall socket, the torque it will put down to the bolt/nut will be substantially less. The lighter weight the hammer mechanism, the bigger the problem. It’s the difference between hitting a golf ball or a bowling ball with a golf club. It is a heck of a lot harder to get a bowling ball moving with a golf club than it is to move a gulf ball. The bigger the mass of the stuff you are trying to move, the more hammer you need to achieve a given torque.

My 1/2” stubby impact will strip the threads on a class 10.9 M12 bolt with a standard depth socket. With a 36mm deep wall socket, it won’t tighten a nut on an M24 bolt worth anything. With my clicker torque wrench, I can rotate the nut almost 1/8 a turn before it clicks at 50 fy*lbs. So realistically, the impact gun that can strip an M12 bolt might be getting the M24 close to 20-30 Ft Lbs. if you put the impact on the bolt instead of the nut, it is even worse because the bolt is heavier still than the nut.

Mass is everything.

Generaly, the larger the hammer mechanism, the less things like socket mass and fastener mass screw with your output torque. For this reason, on large fasteners, I prefer a 3/4 with heavier hammers which runs slower than a 1/2 with lighter hammers that runs faster. Even if they have the same rating measured at the drive square, by the time you add sockets, fasteners, extensions, etc into the mix, the end result will be surprisingly different between the two.
 
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Wamsutta

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I think a lot has to do with whether they have been loosened before and if any corrosion is present. for example honda crank pulley bolts are not torqued that tight but are known to be a bear to loosen.

How much breakaway torque is required for those Honda crank pulley bolts? Some of those battery impact wrenches run upwards of $500 by time you buy the charger and two batteries.
 

MoonRise

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I have an I-R 1/2 inch air impact, forget the model number off hand. IIRC, its max torque rating is about 600 ft-lb.

Usually, it did whatever I asked of it.

Except when it didn't on some brake caliper mounting bolts.

Went out and bought the HF 1080 ft-lb 1/2 inch air impact.

It did the job.

More power is almost never a bad thing.
 

Legion Prime

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How much impact? Simple answer is, as much as you can afford.
To add onto Vanapple's exceptional post the torque to undo a fastener is 80ish% what it was torqued to (been a while so my numbers may be off a touch, please correct me if I'm wrong). So while my old IR TI1080 IIRC would rip off fasteners tightened to a THOUSAND(ish) foot pounds! It would still only turn them up to 800ish foot pounds. Of course corrosion and whatnot plays a factor as well in increasing the torque needed to undo a fastener.
I've gotta say though, there's nothing that now 20yo IR gun wouldn't undo. Even the caliper bolt on my old 78 Fairmont that split 2 sockets before becoming a perfect circle still surrendered to that gun once I got it behind a turbosocket. The SO guy once got me to try a used quiet 1/2 gun that was incredibly quiet. I LOVED it right up until I noticed that every single Audi wheel had one lug bolt that it would not come loose without swapping it for my IR gun and working at an Audi dealership . . . So after a day or two it got left in my box until the SO guy came next the week so I could give it back to him.
 

619DioFan

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How much breakaway torque is required for those Honda crank pulley bolts? Some of those battery impact wrenches run upwards of $500 by time you buy the charger and two batteries.


Not sure of the exact amount but my hf earthquake ( original ) wouldn't do it ( also failed on the ram axle nuts ) then came the 40'' breaker for the win . this is why I invested in the fuel impact. I have read that the aircat guns are very strong.
 
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ClappedOutBport

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Mass is everything with impact guns because the torque they produce is a function of impulse.

Torque ratings of impact guns really are meaningless. For instance, if you have a small diameter standard depth socket on an impact gun, you can put loads of torque down to the nut. If with the same impact gun you now use a very large deep wall socket, the torque it will put down to the bolt/nut will be substantially less. The lighter weight the hammer mechanism, the bigger the problem. It’s the difference between hitting a golf ball or a bowling ball with a golf club. It is a heck of a lot harder to get a bowling ball moving with a golf club than it is to move a gulf ball. The bigger the mass of the stuff you are trying to move, the more hammer you need to achieve a given torque.

My 1/2” stubby impact will strip the threads on a class 10.9 M12 bolt with a standard depth socket. With a 36mm deep wall socket, it won’t tighten a nut on an M24 bolt worth anything. With my clicker torque wrench, I can rotate the nut almost 1/8 a turn before it clicks at 50 fy*lbs. So realistically, the impact gun that can strip an M12 bolt might be getting the M24 close to 20-30 Ft Lbs. if you put the impact on the bolt instead of the nut, it is even worse because the bolt is heavier still than the nut.

Mass is everything.

Generaly, the larger the hammer mechanism, the less things like socket mass and fastener mass screw with your output torque. For this reason, on large fasteners, I prefer a 3/4 with heavier hammers which runs slower than a 1/2 with lighter hammers that runs faster. Even if they have the same rating measured at the drive square, by the time you add sockets, fasteners, extensions, etc into the mix, the end result will be surprisingly different between the two.

I agree. For this same reason, driving a small lag bolt with a 1/2" impact often isn't much if any faster than a 1/4" impact. It turns more with each hammer, but it doesn't hammer as fast. So a properly sized impact for the application is always a good thing.
 

DaveInPhilly

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I agree. For this same reason, driving a small lag bolt with a 1/2" impact often isn't much if any faster than a 1/4" impact. It turns more with each hammer, but it doesn't hammer as fast. So a properly sized impact for the application is always a good thing.

This surprised me. A couple years ago my dad put a big wraparound deck on his lake cabin. He went out and got a 1/2 rigid impact to help, turned out there was no noticeable difference over the 1/4 impact drivers.
 

rct

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This is garage journal, you "need" at least a 3/8" cordless impact, a mid size 1/2" cordless, a heavy duty full-size 18V+ cordless 1/2" impact and one or more 1/2" or larger air impacts for heavy work with a full assortment of sae and metric 6 and 12 point impact sockets.
That said I have a Milwaukee 18v brushed 1/2" that was a holiday $150 deal with battery that has done every lug nut and rusted bolt I have ever tried it on.
 

CR888

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Would impact force be both a factor of hammer weight & speed that the hammers are driven? I have a 'mini' 2.5lb 1/2" impact that spins @11k RPM, and it puts out a fairly honest 550ftlbs working torque. Anyone else see RPM as a factor of impact function?
 

plinker

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Would impact force be both a factor of hammer weight & speed that the hammers are driven? I have a 'mini' 2.5lb 1/2" impact that spins @11k RPM, and it puts out a fairly honest 550ftlbs working torque. Anyone else see RPM as a factor of impact function?

I had some bolts come loose with a stubby impact where the full size impact wouldnt move them and where the stubby wouldnt loosen but the full size would. No particular reason why the stubby would work better the the full size other then RPM. Not sure if corrosion is a factor here either.
 

CR888

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I had some bolts come loose with a stubby impact where the full size impact wouldnt move them and where the stubby wouldnt loosen but the full size would. No particular reason why the stubby would work better the the full size other then RPM. Not sure if corrosion is a factor here either.

Interesting for sure. Often its the BPM (blows per minute) that gets discussed when talking impacts, rarely will folks mention the RPM. I just wondered as generally the physics equation is something like velocity X mass or weight equals force. Just wasn't sure how that translated with impact guns. I know the big 1"+ guns run at much slower speeds but obviously have much heavier hammers. And generally air impacts are faster than cordless. My little 11k impact may not pull huge lbs but its FAST and has good power to weight.
 

ClappedOutBport

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Would impact force be both a factor of hammer weight & speed that the hammers are driven? I have a 'mini' 2.5lb 1/2" impact that spins @11k RPM, and it puts out a fairly honest 550ftlbs working torque. Anyone else see RPM as a factor of impact function?

Kinetic energy = 1/2*I*omega^2. The speed of that hammer is very important. Just like you can drive a nail faster with a light hammer swung faster than a heavy one. But, inertia is important too, as sometimes a smaller hammer simply can no longer move the nail, when a 16 lb sledge will even swung very slowly.
 

WittHay

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I would say that is a question best left to your local Snap-on guy. That way he can sell you the most expensive impact on the truck and you can post for years about how great Snap-on impacts are versus all other brands of "junk"..

The new Snap-on brushless CT9075 with 900 ft. lbs working torque is the correct choice

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This is garage journal, you "need" at least a 3/8" cordless impact, a mid size 1/2" cordless, a heavy duty full-size 18V+ cordless 1/2" impact and one or more 1/2" or larger air impacts for heavy work with a full assortment of sae and metric 6 and 12 point impact sockets. .

Plus a 1/4 cordless impact. a compact 1/2 cordless, a 3/8 drive air impact plus a 1/2 air nano, 3/4 drive in both air and cordless plus at least 3 or 4 air and cordless ratchets should just about cover it.
 

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pi_guy

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I used the Snap On CT9075 to break loose hot wheel nuts torqued to 250ft/lbs worked like a charm.
 

Fix Until Broke

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Duramax flexplate bolts are M16 and get torqued to 58 ft-lbf + 60 + 60 degrees.

It took a 1" impact with a 3/4" air line, 1/2" couplers, 200 psi and the 14mm hex bit cut so there was no length sticking out of the head of the bolt to get the 2nd 60 degrees out of them.

I'd strongly consider a torque multiplier for what you're trying to do - in hindsight, that's what I should have done above.
 
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