How much land?

[John in OH]

I guess I'm looking for size and amount people on here have spent on their garage and if they built it on their own or contractor so I can possibly get an idea of cost per sq ft.

My new shop is 34' x 54' w/ 12' ceiling. Attic storage upstairs. Check out the design and build details at my build site:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98038

All work has been contracted except insulation, all electrical work & lighting, air & water lines, and landscaping. Current cost is north of $65k and I've still got a long way to go! The lot size is 5 ac ... much more than needed for this shop, but personally, I think anything less than 1.5 ac would be too crowded especially if you want a nice yard and play area for kids.

 

[skyking]

Stay away from HOA's and cities . Some will outlaw or tell you to brick the whole thing . 1 acre is enough . My first shop was 40 x 30 and I just built a 50 x 40 hangar for about $40000. Taxes are a concern anywhere. Your young ...If possible ,buy an affordable old commercial shop of somekind and play at that location. That way when you move later on (and you will) you have one more asset.

 

[Bronson]

I saw a couple of recommendation for a 30x40. I have a Mueller Steel 30x40 with 12 foot walls. I only have motorcycles, and IT AINT BIG ENOUGH. Just a consideration.

 

[oldtractors]

I think you are unrealistic with your budget. In 2003, I had a 30x32x12' pole building built for me, including concrete. I did everything, including wiring, once the bulding and concrete was put up. I had around 20,000 in it when I was done. That is not including a lift or any tools. 2 years ago I bought 3 acres that already had buildings on it. It cost me $20,000 to add an big overhead door and 1500 sq ft of concrete to an existing building. I did all the work wiring and insulating myself. I easily have $35,000 in a 30x50 shop built into a 50x80 pole building. I figure it will cost me over $100,000 if I have to replace that building.

 

[rburke65]

I have 5.5 acres....plenty. I just contracted out a 32'x56'x13'4", permits, inspections, 2"x6" studded, 16" on center, pole barn type foundation. Material, labor, dirt work, 350 yards of clay, gutters and down spouts, drain lines, 8x12 roof with a 14'x56 attic with 7' 6" head room in the attic, with a floor and stairs, 2- 12'x8 insulated garage doors installed, 8 thermopane windows, and a service door, and a 16'x16' trussed front porch, entirely wrapped with 7/16" OBS....roof and walls, Tyvek, all metal roof and siding, I'm at $43,500. No floor, insulation, no ceiling, no lights. I am doing the floor grading and prep for the concrete floor and will hire the finishers. I am an electrician by trade so I will be doing that. I also have scored 225 sheets of styrofoam insulation....2 1/2" x 4'x8 sheets for free and Iwill be using that up. I am trying to do this for $55k.Good luck with the $30k, and 5 vehicles.

 

[Beaumont67]

I would be putting up one of these.

Cement work, will eat up your budjet though.

http://www.muellerinc.com/
Pricing: http://muellermetalbuilding.com/
Discount specials on
select buildings!
50 x 100 for $27,900
35 x 70 for $16,500
55 x 65 for $21,100
40 x 60 for $14,500
35 x 50 for $12,450
35 x 40 for $10,500
Details: http://www.muellerinc.com/downloads/catsteel.pdf

 

[Need4racin]

Hell cheapest way would be to wedge a shop onto the girlfriend's property and just live there.

 

[Strouty]

Remember you can always add on to the shop. Plan it that way and then it could be real easy. You could end up with clean parking side and a dirty working area.

I would consider this option, make sure you have plenty of room to work around "projects". I have a 30 x 60 and I really wish it was 40 x 60, I can't get around my "projects" as easy as I wish I could. One big thing, would be height. I have 12'6" ceilings and really wish I had 16' so I could have a second level over parts of my shop. I agree that your budget is way off, you will be double that if you do some of the work.

 

[don long]

. I own 5 cars (3 classics) 1 truck a motorcycle and an ATV and my girlfriend owns her car. I plan on purchasing a car trailer when I move as well and would like to keep that in at least a covered area. I need a shop where I can have at least 1 probably 2 lifts

Here are some things to calc. by
a workable vehicle stall is 15' x 25' x 14'H this will accomidate a 2 or 4 post lift
you have 3 classic cars to store inside perhaps 1 over and one under a lift
you will want a working space with out a lift in it
you will need some storage for your atv and motorcycle and yard equipment
you also want a car/trailer port attached to the garage
trailers are wider than cars so figure 18' wide will give you 4 1/2 feet on either side of the trailer

this looks to me like 4 work / storage bays 60 x 25 x 14 + 18' =
78' long 25' deep and 14' high this is 1850 sq ft for the garage alone
over 1/4 acre just for the garage
get as big a lot as possible no less than 1/2 acre
hope this helps
Don

 

[mrobins297aaa]

make sure when your checking the building restrictions you check the max. building height a lot of places have 15' max and by the time you figure the pitch of the roof your looking at a 8' ceiling. (no room for a lift with that)
as far as lot size, its up to you how much you want to take care of. I have 10 acres and am cutting about 6 acres of grass and I can tell you thats way too much I'm always looking for ways to cut less.
I had a pole building put up in nov 2010, 36 x 64 with 14' clg.......$23000 and I didn't do any of it, the concrete was another $8000

 

[darkk]

30K and in Florida? Minimum 2 acres and 60x80 steel building. Having only a 30K budget makes this an ambitious project.

 

[tegguy]

Hell cheapest way would be to wedge a shop onto the girlfriend's property and just live there.

Girlfriend has a town house and very very strict HOA's I couldn't even build a one car shop on there let alone enough for what I want to do. For my property to work the entire thing would have to be the shop.

 

[Kennybill]

I would get at least 5 acres. Buy enough land the first time. Then you have the room for expansion later. Ken

 

[tegguy]

What computer program do you guys use to design your shops?

 

[Toomanytools?]

What computer program do you guys use to design your shops?

Google sketchup works and is Free, I use Home Designer Pro by Chief Architect it's about $500 not really cost effective if you just want to draw your shop. But if you want to do a house, shop and landscape it would be good. There are several other programs that you can get free or less than $100 just depends what you need to do.

 

[49tandc]

Look for the land first. I would NOT live in an area with a HOA. They will be in your knickers ALL the time and it costs money to have people in your knickers.

1) Get as much land as you can aford now - I'd say min 5 acres. That also puts the closest neighbor 5 acres away (unless someone has built on the lot line.
2) Plop down a used (i.e. cheap and temporary) mobile home and build your permanent garage now, knowing that you guys are in the MH only for a little while.
3) Move your junk into the garage.
4) Live in the MH while planning permanent residence - location, size, solar/wind orientation, distance from house etc.)
5) Build house as planned, sell MH.

49T&C (Gainesville, FL)

 

[tegguy]

Look for the land first. I would NOT live in an area with a HOA. They will be in your knickers ALL the time and it costs money to have people in your knickers.

1) Get as much land as you can aford now - I'd say min 5 acres. That also puts the closest neighbor 5 acres away (unless someone has built on the lot line.
2) Plop down a used (i.e. cheap and temporary) mobile home and build your permanent garage now, knowing that you guys are in the MH only for a little while.
3) Move your junk into the garage.
4) Live in the MH while planning permanent residence - location, size, solar/wind orientation, distance from house etc.)
5) Build house as planned, sell MH.

49T&C (Gainesville, FL)

I think I would be killed for even proposing this idea to my girlfriend.

 

[John in OH]

I think I would be killed for even proposing this idea to my girlfriend.

Yep! If you can sell 49tandc's mobile home plan to your girlfriend, then you've got the best girlfriend ever!!

 

[tegguy]

Yep! If you can sell 49tandc's mobile home plan to your girlfriend, then you've got the best girlfriend ever!!

I could probably sell it to her but I'd be single afterwards

 

[clkimmel]

1 acre sounds like a lot but you may also have to consider septic and well and the setbacks from those. I have 1 acre but due to the main septic drain field and the backup drain field that take up much of my back yard I was not able to put my garage where I originally wanted to. The well is in the from yard so none of the septic can be there.

 

[John in OH]

1 acre sounds like a lot but you may also have to consider septic and well and the setbacks from those. I have 1 acre but due to the main septic drain field and the backup drain field that take up much of my back yard I was not able to put my garage where I originally wanted to. The well is in the from yard so none of the septic can be there.

Good thoughts, clkimmel !! Excellent points to consider!!!

 

[Falcon67]

What computer program do you guys use to design your shops?

I used Visio because it was handy. Worked pretty well too - layers, things on different pages, easy to print the whole thing, turn the layers on and off to see how things work together, fairly easy to make objects to drag and flip around. 2d was good enough for me, 3d works best in my head.

 

[49tandc]

Your GF would have to have 'VISION".

49T&C

 

[RCman]

I'm not sure how some of you folks are saying that 1 acre is enough.
It might be ok if you are used to the suburban feel and I'm not sure how it is in Florida, but around me 1 acre gets you a small ranch with an ok yard due to septic and well requirements, as clkimmel mentioned. Around me there has to be 100 feet from the well to anything related to the septic, any septic even your neighbors if you are that close. I am building on just over 9.5 and to me that is small.

If it all possible look at buying some open vacant land. Building your own house and garage isn't the easiest project, far from it actually, but very rewarding to have exactly what you want exactly where you want it. I think the biggest issue with new construction now is the housing market. The values of houses are so low getting construction loan is very difficult. It is definitely less expensive to purchase a used home than to build a new one; this was not the case 10 years ago. It can be done though, I just pulled my construction loan the beginning of this month. It did take the better part of 6 months fighting with the bank and appraisers so be careful there.

Really it all comes down to how realistic you can be with your budget.

 

[jpinca]

I'd suggest carefully considering buying a property with a garage/shop already built. I wished I'd gone down that path. Building a shop can easily consume all your free time and money until you end up hating the darn thing. The "while we're building, we might as well do..." syndrome is a SOB.

I'm pretty certain a shop is similar to a project car- you can get much more value for you money buying after someone else has done all the work.

Instead of spending money on foundations and roof, you can buy epoxy floors, more tools, and parts for those projects. You also get to the the "fun" part quicker. I don't know about FL, but in CA you have to do many "not fun" things to be code compliant.

Not that you asked, but are you marrying this lady? I assume not, so I'd suggest you carefully think through what happens if you split up. An upfront contract (non-nuptial pre-nup?) could save you a world of grief.

 

[camarotoolman]

I have an acre in central Fl. near Cocoa by 95 and the beachline. You can come over and check it out if you want. I have a 4 car garage, smallish house, a 24x36 pole building. Its move than enough room.

 

[bczygan]

I know the idea of building a new shop is attractive (I'm a builder), but right now existing real estate is cheaper than building new. Lots of foreclosures available. You live on the Florida coast. In the middle of Florida there is a lot of farm land and ranches with cattle. You should be able to find an existing property with an adequate house, enough land and an existing pole barn. Look for a property that is already fixed up to the max. The prior owner will take the depreciation hit on the new construction costs and you will be buying at depreciated costs. Also, buy the most land you can afford. You can't add on to it. And the bigger the buffer between you and neighbors, the less chance your activities will bother them. Shop in an area of similar properties. Your neighbors will be doing similar activities. Get a buyers broker to start looking for you in the geographic area you need to be in.

 

[tegguy]

I'd suggest carefully considering buying a property with a garage/shop already built. I wished I'd gone down that path. Building a shop can easily consume all your free time and money until you end up hating the darn thing. The "while we're building, we might as well do..." syndrome is a SOB.

I'm pretty certain a shop is similar to a project car- you can get much more value for you money buying after someone else has done all the work.

Instead of spending money on foundations and roof, you can buy epoxy floors, more tools, and parts for those projects. You also get to the the "fun" part quicker. I don't know about FL, but in CA you have to do many "not fun" things to be code compliant.

Not that you asked, but are you marrying this lady? I assume not, so I'd suggest you carefully think through what happens if you split up. An upfront contract (non-nuptial pre-nup?) could save you a world of grief.

Actually I do plan on marrying her. We've actually talked about it and everything. It's just a matter of time so I can finish school and get a job so I can afford the ring that I want to get her.

I have an acre in central Fl. near Cocoa by 95 and the beachline. You can come over and check it out if you want. I have a 4 car garage, smallish house, a 24x36 pole building. Its move than enough room.

I might take you up on this one of these weekends. The next time we will be out in the Orlando area is at least 2 weeks away.

I know the idea of building a new shop is attractive (I'm a builder), but right now existing real estate is cheaper than building new. Lots of foreclosures available. You live on the Florida coast. In the middle of Florida there is a lot of farm land and ranches with cattle. You should be able to find an existing property with an adequate house, enough land and an existing pole barn. Look for a property that is already fixed up to the max. The prior owner will take the depreciation hit on the new construction costs and you will be buying at depreciated costs. Also, buy the most land you can afford. You can't add on to it. And the bigger the buffer between you and neighbors, the less chance your activities will bother them. Shop in an area of similar properties. Your neighbors will be doing similar activities. Get a buyers broker to start looking for you in the geographic area you need to be in.

We actually already have a realtor looking even though this is a little early. We are trying to figure out what kind of price range we are going to need when we go to purchase. I'd rather buy already built than go through the hassle of building a new house cause even if I build it there will always be stuff I wish I did differently.

 

[csp]

(I'm a builder)

 

[rburke65]

Excellent idea bczygan!

 

[camarotoolman]

If you don't care exactly where you are moving to in cen. fl., i suggest you check out the Cocoa-Titusville area. lots and lots of places for sale because of the space center shut down. My friend just bought a newer, good sized house, with pool, great 30x50 shop. 2 arcers, paved road for around $200k. Also you are close to the beach, main interstates, and its not totally built up like other parts of fl

 

[tegguy]

If you don't care exactly where you are moving to in cen. fl., i suggest you check out the Cocoa-Titusville area. lots and lots of places for sale because of the space center shut down. My friend just bought a newer, good sized house, with pool, great 30x50 shop. 2 arcers, paved road for around $200k. Also you are close to the beach, main interstates, and its not totally built up like other parts of fl

I wouldn't mind something out there but my girlfriend doesn't want to make the drive any father than she already does and that would put her out there. This all could change right now we are looking to see whats out there to get an idea of features we need/want and a price range for those features.

 

[Falcon67]

I'm not sure how some of you folks are saying that 1 acre is enough.
It might be ok if you are used to the suburban feel and I'm not sure how it is in Florida, but around me 1 acre gets you a small ranch with an ok yard due to septic and well requirements, as clkimmel mentioned. Around me there has to be 100 feet from the well to anything related to the septic, any septic even your neighbors if you are that close. I am building on just over 9.5 and to me that is small.

We have three lots on a city street, town water/sewer, etc, nice houses on whole block. Pretty high livin' for a city feller. Girl at the supermarket check out, her uncle runs 29,000 acres south of town. It's all relative.

 

[MScott]

I'm not sure how some of you folks are saying that 1 acre is enough.
It might be ok if you are used to the suburban feel and I'm not sure how it is in Florida, but around me 1 acre gets you a small ranch with an ok yard due to septic and well requirements, as clkimmel mentioned. Around me there has to be 100 feet from the well to anything related to the septic, any septic even your neighbors if you are that close. I am building on just over 9.5 and to me that is small.
Really it all comes down to how realistic you can be with your budget.

I agree. I am in the process of building on 90 acres. (Had 50 acres and got a chance to buy the 40 acres beside it.) I would be claustrophobic if I had to build on half an acre. Besides, you have an ATV. Wouldn't it be great to have trails cut through your property so you could enjoy driving without trailering somewhere else? Of course, having acreage in Central Florida might be quite different than here.

 

[Need4racin]

The interest rate might be low, but I still think the best bet would be to live in one of yours current house if it's paid off.

 

[tegguy]

The interest rate might be low, but I still think the best bet would be to live in one of yours current house if it's paid off.

Unfortunately neither of our houses are anywhere near being paid off. I have owned mine for a year today and my girlfriend has owned hers for about 4 years but she's upside down on the mortgage (we'll probably try to rent hers). Neither of our houses have enough room for us and the amount I pay every month in storage would be better put towards a house when/if I can get a job. I am really hoping I can find something when I graduate hopefully my background will be able to land me a job without too much time between graduation and starting.

6 years military
Bachelors degree in Aerospace Engineering
Associates degree in Aviation Maintenance Technology
12 years computer experience
4 years networking

 

[Toymeister]

Take this from someone who moved from 48 acres to 1: you can become a prisioner to your land, it can own you. If you go too big you need so much 'stuff' to keep the land up, the 'stuff' breaks and you spend your time fixing it. That said enough land to keep your toys in place is nice just be aware that you live in your house not on your land so don't shortchange a great house for a mediocre one with more land.

 

[tegguy]

Toymesiter I am right there with you. I don't want a lot of land cause i still want to be close to the city. The house is important and I don't plan to get a mediocre house unless I want to fix it up (before the garage)

 

[vartz04]

Dad got the shell of his 26x30 stick built when they built our house.

All exterior finishes, concrete, and the floor itself. has a 2 car door in the front a 1 car in the back, a man door, and 2 windows.

that ended up being close to $30k to build back in 04. We put the electric, and insulation in. by the time its drywalled/everything else is how he wants it it will be a $40k building for just a 26x30.

Ditch cars, or leave your every day drivers outside. and go with the equivilent of a big 4 car. (45x30 seems like a good size)

No one mentioned this that I read but it seems like she isn't in the best financial place, and you are just getting out of school. Good luck trying to get a loan for all of this.

My suggestion. Find the land, and build the shop. sell your house to fund/release funding for the shop. live in her house until you can get yourself rightsideup on that and then build the house on the land with the shop.

 

[tegguy]

No one mentioned this that I read but it seems like she isn't in the best financial place, and you are just getting out of school. Good luck trying to get a loan for all of this.

Thanks for the advice but in no way is my girlfriend in a bad or even close to it financial situation. Yes she owes more on her home than it's worth but not by much and a lot of Americans are like this currently. She has no student loans and hardly any other debt. She has a good paying secure job (She's and Engineer).

I myself have very minimal student loans and hardly any debt (car loan and house loan). I should (if everything goes well) be able to land a job with my degree (Aerospace Engineering) and background that pays what hers currently pays. If these things happen as we hope they do we will have no problem getting a loan for a house even if we keep and rent hers.

Once again I'm sorry but selling cars is NOT an option. I refuse to do it unless it comes down to loosing my house.