How much Snap On and others hate HF?
- Thread starter t100
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speed bump
Well-known member
I can't really comment on auto mechs but Proto is something you are almost guarunteed to see in any industrial setting. Heck I would say they are better than SO especially after considering I have worked at places that ran through 1-7/16" nuts by the 55 gallon drum and those sockets outlasted the truck mechanics SO sockets despite 10 times the use.
Personally I would say HF hurts the trucks with respect to specialty tools. Having all kinds of testers and pullers available for 10% of truck prices with a no questions asked warrenty makes it easy to buy 3 and exchange the broken one next time their is something you need there.
Personally I would say HF hurts the trucks with respect to specialty tools. Having all kinds of testers and pullers available for 10% of truck prices with a no questions asked warrenty makes it easy to buy 3 and exchange the broken one next time their is something you need there.
crewchief888
Well-known member
i bought my large wrenches from a HF type place nearly 20 years ago. none have broken, or had the open ends spread, ive beaten on them with sledgehammer to the point where i bent the 1 1/2".
as joe said, seldom use tools i get from HF or sears.
i dont buy sets of sockets or wrenches anymore, i buy what i need.
i picked up a set of 1/2" dr impact wobbles from HF cuz i needed an 18mm, and didnt feel like driving 60 mile round trip to work.
sure they dont say snapon on them, but that 18mm stood up to my 3/4 dr gun on it.
yea some of their stuff is ****,
it's like any non-truck brand tool, if it does what it's suppose to, and didnt cost me an arm and a leg, thats probably what i'll use.
Vinko
Well-known member
Things I seen were, air chucks, tire gauges, thread pitch guages, spark plug rethreaders basically loads of small cheapo type stuff that no one would even ask about when buying and has no packaging.
Sorry but out of respect to other truck owners I won't say which company it was.
Keep your eyes open when you drive by, a truck maybe parked within a block or 2 of the store.
When a guy picks up those tools on the truck, he can tell whether it's quality or not. I don't think this is a sin at all. Whatever the upcharge is, it's probably worth the time not to have to go there to pick it up, if you need it.
Vinko
Well-known member
I would put a Proto wrench up against any of the truck brands wrenches any day of the week.
JMHO
I'd say Armstrong and Proto are pretty close to the trucks. Maybe even better than some of the offerings.
Vinko
Well-known member
Can't comment on the majority of tool offerings, but an auto mechanic will probably never put his sockets to the repeated test that some of the industrial users or assembly-line users will. That's when stuff like Apex really rips the **** off of SO.
X1 Mike
Well-known member
Saying Harbor Freight has an effect on Snap-On sales is like saying the dollar store has an effect on Nieman Marcus. If you're shopping at one you had no intention on shopping at the other. 
Saying Harbor Freight has an effect on Snap-On sales is like saying the dollar store has an effect on Nieman Marcus. If you're shopping at one you had no intention on shopping at the other.
I wouldnt go that far, Its obvious by some of the Auto mechanics that frequent here, That times have changed and there are a few who are venturing into some of there product line. Amazingly there are quite a few success stories along with some dissapointments. I would say the economy has more of a affect on SO then HF but in the end there both related aren't they?
X1 Mike
Well-known member
Of course I exagerate a little to make a point but what I'm trying to say is no one is really thinking about buying a Dual 80 but instead decides on the Pittsburgh ratchet instead. If someone does that, then they weren't really thinking about the Dual 80 they were dreaming. the things I have purchased at HF I would have just done without if I didn't buy the cheapie.
sberry
Banned
If this is so it would make them worth twice what you paid for them but you are selling them at half cost?
I've been looking at metric ratcheting wrenches and HF has a set of 7 flexhead for $29. I've read on here that most tool companies imports their internals from Taiwan so I don't really see a big difference (if HF set is also made in Taiwan). With American made brands (SK, Armstrong, Sears), I would have warranty issues or cost 2x the price or more and are not flexheads.
monte433
Well-known member
I have found myself shopping more at HF, why not I can replace a broken tool 4 or 5 times before I get close to what it would cost off of the trucks, but when I was tech and depended on my tools for a living it was SO all the way.
stock z/28
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2006
- Messages
- 298
An interesting variation of this question may be-- If Snap On didnt offer weekly payments how much would that effect competitors sales?
I can honestly say that I dont thing I could work with HF tools on any kind of a daily basis. Even pullers and specialty tools I have are generally first class quality. In my opinion if I need a special puller or tool I am not wanting the frustration of so-so tool. In my experience, in a lot of applications even "good" tools are marginal in some instances. HF would just add to the frustration.
That being said I have worked with tools for well over 30 years and have accumulate most everything I need. In general if I dont have it I probably cant afford it. The issue is, in my opinion, with the economy the way it is how many people are barely getting by with what they have? Some HF stuff may be a necessary evil, even if not the first choice.
Probably an example that is not really HF comparable is Craftsman 1/4" flex sockets. I have Snap ON-Mac-Matco-Proto and I think SK as well as the Craftsmans. If someone asked me I would highly rate them at regular price of around 50 a set. I could get by very easily with the Craftsman. Whats a set of Snap On 1/4" flexs go for now?
I can honestly say that I dont thing I could work with HF tools on any kind of a daily basis. Even pullers and specialty tools I have are generally first class quality. In my opinion if I need a special puller or tool I am not wanting the frustration of so-so tool. In my experience, in a lot of applications even "good" tools are marginal in some instances. HF would just add to the frustration.
That being said I have worked with tools for well over 30 years and have accumulate most everything I need. In general if I dont have it I probably cant afford it. The issue is, in my opinion, with the economy the way it is how many people are barely getting by with what they have? Some HF stuff may be a necessary evil, even if not the first choice.
Probably an example that is not really HF comparable is Craftsman 1/4" flex sockets. I have Snap ON-Mac-Matco-Proto and I think SK as well as the Craftsmans. If someone asked me I would highly rate them at regular price of around 50 a set. I could get by very easily with the Craftsman. Whats a set of Snap On 1/4" flexs go for now?
BC iron works
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2010
- Messages
- 54
snap on gets a lot of bizz because
it gives credit to people just starting
out in shops and there hand tools are
the best you buy them once and they
last a forever some of mine ive had 30 years
it gives credit to people just starting
out in shops and there hand tools are
the best you buy them once and they
last a forever some of mine ive had 30 years
cruiser808
Well-known member
I'd say Armstrong and Proto are pretty close to the trucks. Maybe even better than some of the offerings.
Agreed. Back before Stanley acquired Proto in 1984, the company was heavily into servicing the automotive sector. I have several vintage auomotive specialty tools by Proto, including their very desirable and sought after body hammers. I also have some Proto 500 wrench sets that are certainly as well made as any tool truck brand. Proto even sold a limited number of auto diagnosic tools at one time.
Joe H
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more. There are plenty of us on here who simply appreciate nicer tools and are not stuck up about it.
Lookin4'67Galaxieconv
Well-known member
If that's what you think, then why don't you leave?
I would not be buying Snap On stock these days. I think there are some warning signs on the horizon and it's not all from HF.
1. The auto tech. profession is being squeezed. Wages are under pressure. (SO at 10X the price or HF and bread on the table?)
2. Major mechanical components are becoming more reliable. (engines and ******'s). I rarely here of short block rebuilds/swaps these days. Either it's warranty or trade in but rarely major overhauls. A lot of repairs are driveability and most of that is computer/firmware.
3. Tools have been produced for decades at the rate of millions of items per year. There is very little obsolecsence. Where are all these tool going? (hint: Ebay at pennies on the dollar)
4. With the financial pinch techs are feeling, online is looking better every day. No need to spend your time off tool shopping or paying the truck prices.
5. The core truck sold tools like wrenches, ratchets, sockets may continue to be in demand but there's a ton of other stuff where HF might be perfectly fine at a mere fraction of the truck tool prices. (there is no value proposition in SO tool boxes for 10X the price)
6. In other trades like HVAC, they are abandoning name brand hand tools that often get stolen, lost or abused.
7. The Chinese are emerging from the stone age and are learning basic quality control, metallurgy and ergonomic design. There's no reason they can't produce good stuff when given a reasonable price point to hit along with some quality specs and some R&D dollars.
I think that's why these tool companies like SO are going to Asia but being coy about it.
Where am I wrong??
1. The auto tech. profession is being squeezed. Wages are under pressure. (SO at 10X the price or HF and bread on the table?)
2. Major mechanical components are becoming more reliable. (engines and ******'s). I rarely here of short block rebuilds/swaps these days. Either it's warranty or trade in but rarely major overhauls. A lot of repairs are driveability and most of that is computer/firmware.
3. Tools have been produced for decades at the rate of millions of items per year. There is very little obsolecsence. Where are all these tool going? (hint: Ebay at pennies on the dollar)
4. With the financial pinch techs are feeling, online is looking better every day. No need to spend your time off tool shopping or paying the truck prices.
5. The core truck sold tools like wrenches, ratchets, sockets may continue to be in demand but there's a ton of other stuff where HF might be perfectly fine at a mere fraction of the truck tool prices. (there is no value proposition in SO tool boxes for 10X the price)
6. In other trades like HVAC, they are abandoning name brand hand tools that often get stolen, lost or abused.
7. The Chinese are emerging from the stone age and are learning basic quality control, metallurgy and ergonomic design. There's no reason they can't produce good stuff when given a reasonable price point to hit along with some quality specs and some R&D dollars.
I think that's why these tool companies like SO are going to Asia but being coy about it.
Where am I wrong??
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cruiser808
Well-known member
Gearwrench sets, on sale at Sears, are pretty close to that price. I know this for a fact, because I was a USA only holdout for years until the good folks here at GJ set me straight on the quality and usefulness of Gearwrenches. Still, I wasn't going pay alot of coin on a leap of faith. But the guys here found the deals and gave me a heads up on the sales. I'm glad I listened and you should listen too.
tonydanzah
Well-known member
is there an HF on Oahu?
sberry
Banned
I will agree that many if not most of the electric tools are not very good. A lot of the air impact stuff is marginal at best. Several of the rotary tools however work very well.
x3 on the power tools. I bought 2 of HF power tools after seeing good reviews. angle grinder and a small drill press. that was 4 years ago. they are ok for what I paid for, but since then I got 2 Metabo grinders, 3 Milwaukee drills(hammer drill, 1/4 hex impact), IR W360 cordless Impact gun and SO CT4850HO impact gun.
I don't think on that dept., HF has zero impact on truck brands' sales.
cruiser808
Well-known member
Hi Tony! No, there isn't one here in the Islands, although I mail ordered some small stuff years ago. Great prices, but it took forever to get it mailed and delivered here and the customer service sucked big time. But that was long time ago, so I hope things are better now. I really wish we could get one here.
I will say that I bought a used engine hoist from a friend that bought it new from HF and had it shipped over here. He didn't need it anymore and sold it to me. It's been going strong for 13 years of serious use so I can't complain. Yes, we need a HF here in Hawaii.
Vinko
Well-known member
When I was taking out a Straight-8 [
] and Dynaflow transmission[] out of an old Buick, I didn't really have the money to invest in a hoist, so I was glad for Harbor Freight in that instance.Vinko
Well-known member
Agreed. Back before Stanley acquired Proto in 1984, the company was heavily into servicing the automotive sector. I have several vintage auomotive specialty tools by Proto, including their very desirable and sought after body hammers. I also have some Proto 500 wrench sets that are certainly as well made as any tool truck brand. Proto even sold a limited number of auto diagnosic tools at one time.
My first set of was a Proto-Challenger Master Mechanic Set. Good stuff, if not the top-of-the-line Proto. I like some of the other Proto Pro wrenches and sockets and older pullers. Also their pliers.
That said, I might be a sucker, but I'd take a set of the SO wrenches any day. They're just decadent.
Every day I use a combination of Proto, Armstrong, SO, and Cornwell. I don't know if I notice a difference though. But I don't think my work is as tough as a pro tech.
I saw some great vintage stuff (brake and battery) on ebay for the first time last week. Nice stuff.
Vinko
Well-known member
I doubt SO Taiwan mechanisms (if that's where SO sources them) = HF mechanisms. Same country, perhaps, but I'd bet miles apart in quality.
Why do you think you'd have warranty issues with Armstrong? I love their ratcheting wrenches, btw. I don't know if they're internals are Taiwanese or not. I've been really stupid with Armstrong ratcheting wrenches and they've not been the worse for wear.
Also, I'm not sure I buy the argument, sometimes proffered here that because Armstrong and Matco or company X and company Y are owned by the same parent company, that you're getting the same tool with a different name.
Vinko
Well-known member
I might buy it. If I did, it would be because even if what you said is true, SO's sharp enough to follow the path that makes them profit. I'd also put in favor of a stock buy their investments in China and Brazil and other places. Seems like their poised to take advantage of which ever way the whole thing turns. But what do I know, I don't buy stock.
PS. I don't think they're being "coy" about investing offshore, if the investor report for 2008 that was posted a while back is any indication. Starrett too made a big deal of their operations in South America as I recall.
That's another place (i.e. South America) that's looking interesting for companies like GM. Good casting quality, not too far away. You can get product really quick to the factories in the South.
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Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
I was looking at hydraulic presses not log ago, i can get a decent 10-ton HF-esque for a couple hundred. If i wanted a branded one i'd be looking at a couple thousand, stuff like this, engine hoists and the like in many cases is just too expensive to buy branded for many users. A could spend a grand and get myself a nice hydraulic press, engine hoist and transmission jack. If i wanted those three from name brand companies i'd be looking well into the thousands.
As stock z/28 said, "Some HF stuff may be a necessary evil, even if not the first choice."
And unfortunately, when the time comes for me to buy the aforementioned equipment, i doubt i will be buying any name brands.
As stock z/28 said, "Some HF stuff may be a necessary evil, even if not the first choice."
And unfortunately, when the time comes for me to buy the aforementioned equipment, i doubt i will be buying any name brands.
matthew_-g
Member
You buy what you can afford. If I were so hung up on having brand name tools, I would not have what I have now. All I see on this site is a bunch of show-off little boys having a ******* contest, It makes me sick
. Come back to the real world, Join in on reality for a little bit. Some people actually use their tools and get them dirty, All I see here is how neatly my tools fit in a draw and how ****** shiny they are, It's all **** factor if you want my opinion. So now you can get on here and let me have it.Well go for it, I'm sure there are many people that agree with me.
. Come back to the real world, Join in on reality for a little bit. Some people actually use their tools and get them dirty, All I see here is how neatly my tools fit in a draw and how ****** shiny they are, It's all **** factor if you want my opinion. So now you can get on here and let me have it.Well go for it, I'm sure there are many people that agree with me.
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i won't let you have it. i have everything from top shelf to harbor freight. spend some time here and you will find that amongst the sheep and polishers are some guys who really know their stuff. the amount of knowledge is unbeleivable. i would withhold rash judgement til you get to know some of these guys. edit; welcome! we like you guys from down under.
Yes, but I clean mine afterwords. Chrome polish and a layer of Zaino works well.
Your opinion is duly noted. These large rollaways filled to the brim with neatly organized name brand tools is a turn on
. What do you expect from a forum who's entire focus is tools?? Don't you think tool aficionados (fancy word for wankers) would hang around here.I agree, so what??
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Moose-LandTran
Well-known member
You buy what you can afford. If I were so hung up on having brand name tools, I would not have what I have now. All I see on this site is a bunch of show-off little boys having a ******* contest, It makes me sick
Uh.. great first impression. Why does it bother you if others want a big shiny toolbox full of shiny name brand tools? Does it bother you?
So what if that's what they want? It's their stuff, their choice, their money. What tools other people have has absolutely no effect on you or your life what so ever.
chadster1
Well-known member
I am buying Snap-on stock. Snap-on is adapting to the changing times. Some people do not like the changes but they are adapting. Snap-on stock has also paid out quarterly dividends without interruption since 1939.
cruiser808
Well-known member
You buy what you can afford. If I were so hung up on having brand name tools, I would not have what I have now. All I see on this site is a bunch of show-off little boys having a ******* contest, It makes me sick
Oooookay???? By the way, what was the name of that charm school you attended?
X1 Mike
Well-known member
You buy what you can afford. If I were so hung up on having brand name tools, I would not have what I have now. All I see on this site is a bunch of show-off little boys having a ******* contest, It makes me sick
Only has 2 posts? Ya know buddy you're not supposed to pee in the pool before you get in.
matthew_-g
Member
I am a member of many other forums on the net. And in most of those forums I have more than 1200 posts, I was introduced to this forum 12 months ago, But never had time to visit and look. I joined before I read, SILLY ME..!!!!
I am hoping that not all people here are so childlike and actually have something useful to post. IS THIS POSSIABLE.??
We'll just have to find out won't we.!!!
I am hoping that not all people here are so childlike and actually have something useful to post. IS THIS POSSIABLE.??
We'll just have to find out won't we.!!!
Im so confused...
chadster1
Well-known member
Here is a book you need to read.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...n+friends+and+influence+people&sprefix=How+to