How to hook up a generator?

[nick2010tundra]

Lineman again

Just a side not on the neutral issue, your neutral has to be disconnected as well with a portable generator, that's why generator panels use a 3 phase breaker and switch the neutral as well.

Ever notice the big sticker on your generator that says floating Neutral do not ground ( that means your ruining your generator hooking it to a grounded neutral)


Its actually for 2 reasons,

1 the first is so you don't backfeed the neutral with imbalance

2. And this is for all the guys that don't care about the safety, your ruining your generator leaving it hooked to the utility neutral, portable generators work of a modified sine wave, they actually work by putting a positive 60 volt on the hot leg and negative 60 on the neutral side and with ac reverse the orientation 60 times per second ( hertz )

I hope that helps guys here some, I am happy to help with anyone looking to do it right, first off it is a huge safety issue hooking thru a plug and opening your main, your actually creating a fire hazard as eventually you will burn up your ground to the house, as your ground and neutral are hooked together at the first point of entry to the house. When you use a transfer switch the neutral is floated

 

[pattenp]

I think he is referring to backfeeding with a suicide cord, or not implementing either a transfer switch or interlock, or using a generator with the ground and neutral tied together. Maybe even using ROMEX instead of proper SOW rated cable to connect up the portable generator.

All dangerous shortcuts are defended at one point or the other by cheap, lazy, selfish, ignorant, or short-sighted people.

Alchymist was suggesting how to make up a cord to hook up a 120V gen to a 240V power inlet. I did not read that he was suggesting a suicide code or any other unsafe method of connection. So I'm still waiting to hear how Alchymist's cord suggestion was bad advice.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

So I'm still waiting to hear how Alchymist's cord suggestion was bad advice.

Simple. None of the components including the genset are rated to do what he suggested. Not much more to say...

Tommy

 

[Alchymist]

Simple. None of the components including the genset are rated to do what he suggested. Not much more to say...

Tommy

Please post applicable code section so we can all learn from this.....

 

[Mustang51js]

Lineman again

Just a side not on the neutral issue, your neutral has to be disconnected as well with a portable generator, that's why generator panels use a 3 phase breaker and switch the neutral as well.

Ever notice the big sticker on your generator that says floating Neutral do not ground ( that means your ruining your generator hooking it to a grounded neutral)


Its actually for 2 reasons,

1 the first is so you don't backfeed the neutral with imbalance

2. And this is for all the guys that don't care about the safety, your ruining your generator leaving it hooked to the utility neutral, portable generators work of a modified sine wave, they actually work by putting a positive 60 volt on the hot leg and negative 60 on the neutral side and with ac reverse the orientation 60 times per second ( hertz )

I hope that helps guys here some, I am happy to help with anyone looking to do it right, first off it is a huge safety issue hooking thru a plug and opening your main, your actually creating a fire hazard as eventually you will burn up your ground to the house, as your ground and neutral are hooked together at the first point of entry to the house. When you use a transfer switch the neutral is floated

What's the difference using a portable generator with a interlock kit, or using a generac whole house gen. The generac doesn't switch the neutral so they are basically the same setup

 

[Alchymist]

Neutral switching in a nutshell:

If the generator neutral and EGC are bonded, the transfer switch must switch the neutral.

If the generator neutral and EGC are separate, the neutral need not be switched.

However, the AHJ has the final say as to what's allowed or not allowed.

 

[pattenp]

Simple. None of the components including the genset are rated to do what he suggested. Not much more to say...

Tommy

What ratings are you saying are being violated and how?

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Thats because the OP resurected his old thread.

Im guessing he never got it working 3 yrs ago....

OP should start a new thread as there is a lot of bad dangerous advice on this one!

Three years ago, the OP was asking about a 7500 watt genny that most likely had 120v and 240v capability and could be connected to the house panel using either interlock kit, or a transfer kit, and a male/female L14-30 cable, and be operated in a safe manner. Suddenly now, three years later, the OP is asking about hooking up a 1600 watt 120v generator that at best could only power a couple of items and a few lights and no real good way to safely connect it to a house panel. It simply isn't designed to be, it is most likely an inverter generator designed for camping or portable use, quiet and not too heavy.

Charles

 

[bgeery]

Suddenly now, three years later, the OP is asking about hooking up a 1600 watt 120v generator that at best could only power a couple of items and a few lights and no real good way to safely connect it to a house panel. It simply isn't designed to be, it is most likely an inverter generator designed for camping or portable use, quiet and not too heavy.

LOL, "a couple of items, and a few lights"? You people have to list the **** in your house.

My house uses 6-7 KW-h a day (discounting AC usage), and an eu2000i has no problem powering everything. That's only about a 250-300 watt average load. No electricity is needed for water or space heating or stove/oven use. The frig and freezer both draw under 90 watts of power each when on. Frig and freezer use a total of 1.2 KW-h daily, or an average load of 50 watts combined. I could turn on all 20 lights on my property on at once, and still only draw about 160 watts (all LED bulbs).

If a eu2000i isn't enough to run just about everything in your house except AC, you probably picked the wrong house/area to live in, or haven't addressed all the power you are wasting. But the bottom line is, and eu2000i can be plenty to run a whole house, and certanly more than "a couple of items, and a few lights".

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I'd like to see a fridge that draws just 90 watts. My 22 cu/ft Whirlpool Gold, made in 2007 has a max amp draw of 6.5. Thats 780 watts. Granted it doesn't draw that much all the time, but you have to allow for the fact it will go into defrost cycle once each 24 hrs, and you don't know if that will happen with the generator powering it or not.

Charles

 

[bgeery]

I'd like to see a fridge that draws just 90 [watts]. My 22 cu/ft Whirlpool Gold, made in 2007 has a max amp draw of 6.5. Thats 780 watts. Granted it doesn't draw that much all the time, but you have to allow for the fact it will go into defrost cycle once each 24 hrs, and you don't know if that will happen with the generator powering it or not.

The energy hog firg was the first thing I addressed when I bought and moved into my house. Mine are the cheapest 10 cu. ft. energy star deep freezes I could order. Danby DCFM289WDD. One converted over to a frig in 15 minutes with a $50 thermostat swap. Manual defrost once a year. Takes about 20 minutes per unit. Total cost for both was $538 in 2011. I set the frig to just over freezing, and set the freezer to -30 degF, for indefinite safe storage. Sips power, and very little surge at startup. This level of efficiency is usually only available from specialized units, that solar homes use, costing several thousand bucks.

If I was working with a standard frig/freezer, I would disable the defrost.

 

[pentavolvo]

LOL, "a couple of items, and a few lights"? You people have to list the **** in your house.

My house uses 6-7 KW-h a day (discounting AC usage), and an eu2000i has no problem powering everything. That's only about a 250-300 watt average load. No electricity is needed for water or space heating or stove/oven use. The frig and freezer both draw under 90 watts of power each when on. Frig and freezer use a total of 1.2 KW-H daily, or an average load of 50 watts combined. I could turn on all 20 lights on my property on at once, and still only draw about 160 watts (all LED bulbs).

If a eu2000i isn't enough to run just about everything in your house except AC, you probably picked the wrong house/area to live in, or haven't addressed all the power you are wasting. But the bottom line is, and eu2000i can be plenty to run a whole house, and certanly more than "a couple of items, and a few lights".

I have to agree with this. My old home was 1600 sq feet and I used a small 1850 watts continuous 120 generator. I wired house with an interlock and standard generator interlock. Took a 12 ha extension cord cut the end and put a 15-30 on it with the hot legs bridged. Powers my furnace, fridge, lights in the house, and tv. When furnace cycles off we can run microwave or make a quick pot of coffee. Its quiet and fuel efficient

 

[LS6 Tommy]

What ratings are you saying are being violated and how?

Umm, the genny, the connectors, the inlet box...

Connecting a 20A (13.3A actual) 120V geneset with a homemade 3 wire 120V adapter to a 4 wire 240V 30A inlet box is a multitude of wrongs in itself. Isn't it self explanatory enough that I shouldn't need to list code? How about you guys show me the codes that approve it?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Sometimes there's very little difference between "possible" and "wrong"...

Tommy

 

[Alchymist]

Umm, the genny, the connectors, the inlet box...

Connecting a 20A (13.3A actual) 120V geneset with a homemade 3 wire 120V adapter to a 4 wire 240V 30A inlet box is a multitude of wrongs in itself. Isn't it self explanatory enough that I shouldn't need to list code? How about you guys show me the codes that approve it?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Sometimes there's very little difference between "possible" and "wrong"...

Tommy

No, it's not. And by your reasoning I can't connect a 200 amp sub panel to a main panel through a 100 amp breaker .

 

[pattenp]

Umm, the genny, the connectors, the inlet box...

Connecting a 20A (13.3A actual) 120V geneset with a homemade 3 wire 120V adapter to a 4 wire 240V 30A inlet box is a multitude of wrongs in itself. Isn't it self explanatory enough that I shouldn't need to list code? How about you guys show me the codes that approve it?

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Sometimes there's very little difference between "possible" and "wrong"...

Tommy

Your thinking is backwards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 20A 120V Gen supplying power to a 30A power inlet. If the Gen had a 30A outlet and you wanted to hook it to a 20A power inlet, then that is wrong. Code only prohibits the connection of smaller amp rated outlets to a circuit that has larger rated overcurrent protection than the outlet. The 20A outlet on the Gen is overcurrent protected at 20A at the Gen, so hooking it to a power inlet rated at 30A is in no way a problem. So just saying it's wrong in a multitude of ways and saying you don't need to explain doesn't cut it. The NEC only states that the ampacity of the supply conductors from the generator not be less than 100% of the current rating of the generator. NEC 445.13

 

[nick2010tundra]

Generac vs Portable for Mustang

The Generac creates a sine wave power and the portables use a modified sine wave, that's the difference. That's why people burn the armatures up in the generators with these home made plugs.

Seems like a lot of money to spend on a generator not hook it up right

 

[nick2010tundra]

If anyone really wants to learn a lot about this stuff there is a great Solar power forum ( I will let people search it themselves as I don't know rules on posting forums on here, it starts with sun ) Anyways these guys get into this debate all the time and there is some great sticky's on everything you would ever want to learn on solar or generators. Also great for everyone looking at solar as an alternative or back-up.

 

[Alchymist]

Generac vs Portable for Mustang

The Generac creates a sine wave power and the portables use a modified sine wave, that's the difference. That's why people burn the armatures up in the generators with these home made plugs.

Seems like a lot of money to spend on a generator not hook it up right

Well, that' interesting. The generator under discussion (Honda EU2000i) puts out as near sine wave as to be indistinguishable, and is safe for all electronics. The only problem with modified sine wave is that the older ones used large steps on the creation of the wave, and generated a lot of harmonics. This played havoc with a lot of electronics. other than that, a motor, heater, lights, etc wouldn't know the difference, and the generator couldn't tell the difference between a manufactured cable and one assembled from components, so long as the right components were used. Even a manufactured cable can cause problems if the wrong one is chosen for the particular application. I really doubt many generator armatures were burned up because of homemade cables.

 

[sierrarat]

Just built a new house and had a separate generator circuit with a male plug located on the patio. In the event the power goes out I plug an extension cord from my 2500 watt Honda generator into it and swap the plugs from my pellet stove and refrigerator into the outlets wired to the male outlet on the patio for the generator. This little circuit only feeds the pellet stove and the refrigerator and a couple of lights and is not connected to any house circuits. Inexpensive and safe, and wired by an electrician and inspected and approved by the building inspector.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

LOL, "a couple of items, and a few lights"? You people have to list the **** in your house.

My house uses 6-7 KW-h a day (discounting AC usage), and an eu2000i has no problem powering everything. That's only about a 250-300 watt average load. No electricity is needed for water or space heating or stove/oven use. The frig and freezer both draw under 90 watts of power each when on. Frig and freezer use a total of 1.2 KW-h daily, or an average load of 50 watts combined. I could turn on all 20 lights on my property on at once, and still only draw about 160 watts (all LED bulbs).

If a eu2000i isn't enough to run just about everything in your house except AC, you probably picked the wrong house/area to live in, or haven't addressed all the power you are wasting. But the bottom line is, and eu2000i can be plenty to run a whole house, and certanly more than "a couple of items, and a few lights".

It sounds as if your house is far from ordinary. How many people have chest freezers they have modified to run as fridges and how many people have all LED bulbs in their house. I think your situation is far from typical, and still stand by my assertion that a 1600 watt generator of the OP in post #63 will not be a generator you would want to bother to use to power an entire panelboard with.

The OP has given us so little information, both now and three years ago, that it is impossible to determine what the best way is to safely and legally connect to a home panelboard.

Cheater cables and suicide cords are certainly not the way to go.

 

[bgeery]

Cheater cables and suicide cords are certainly not the way to go.

This thread has moved beyond the OP. What do you define as a "cheater cable"?

 

[LS6 Tommy]

No, it's not. And by your reasoning I can't connect a 200 amp sub panel to a main panel through a 100 amp breaker .

Your thinking is backwards. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 20A 120V Gen supplying power to a 30A power inlet. If the Gen had a 30A outlet and you wanted to hook it to a 20A power inlet, then that is wrong. Code only prohibits the connection of smaller amp rated outlets to a circuit that has larger rated overcurrent protection than the outlet. The 20A outlet on the Gen is overcurrent protected at 20A at the Gen, so hooking it to a power inlet rated at 30A is in no way a problem. So just saying it's wrong in a multitude of ways and saying you don't need to explain doesn't cut it. The NEC only states that the ampacity of the supply conductors from the generator not be less than 100% of the current rating of the generator. NEC 445.13

I see where you're coming from now and I understand your questioning of my comments. I think we're talking apples and oranges. I didn't mean to quote code to anyone who is a licensed electrician, as I am not one. I also didn't mean to come across as my reservations were about the differences in the current ratings. That was never an issue for me. All I was saying is telling a relatively uninformed person to just "make up" cords in ways other than how they're normally intended to be formatted is just not a good or safe idea.

I apologize if I came across as "better than thou".

Tommy

 

[pattenp]

I apologize if I came across as "better than thou".

Tommy

No apology needed. I didn't take your comments that way. I just didn't understand where you were coming from without further explanation.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Tommy

 

[Alchymist]

No apology needed. I didn't take your comments that way. I just didn't understand where you were coming from without further explanation.

Ditto!

 

[Harix]

Thank you so much guys, especially Alhymist, Bgeery, Nich, Tommy, and everyone who keep this positive.

So I bought everything already. I got the Reliance 6 circuit, see the installation on youtube. Pretty easy.

On the wires, can you please let me know which to hook up where?

2&3 bridge to 5 (hot)
1 to 7 & 4 to 6?
or 1 to 6 & 7 to 4?

Thank you so much!!

 

[bgeery]

On the wires, can you please let me know which to hook up where?

2&3 bridge to 5 (hot)
1 to 7 & 4 to 6?
or 1 to 6 & 7 to 4?

7 to 4 (Ground - Green)
6 to 1 (Neutral - White)
5 to 3 and 2 (Hots - Black and Red)

(ABOVE CORRECTED)

Only use with the small 2Kw generators, if unsure about the existence of MWBC in the house. Use a Kill-A-Watt meter to find out how many Volt-Amps your current equipment draws. Start upgrading your electronics and appliances in the future, with an eye for energy efficiency and good power factors.