How to Remove These Retaining Clips?

[bulletpruf]

Fellas -

I need to replace the starter pawls on a Jonsereds chainsaw. The clips to hold them on are difficult to remove. It looks like you could get something in the t*ts on the end to spread them, but I can't get a circlip/retaining ring pliers in there to open them up. And when I push them off with a flat tip screwdriver, I break the t*ts off.



Am I doing something wrong here?

Thanks,

Scott

 

[Captain Spaulding]

My thought would be needlenose pliers. They'll probably fly across the shop never to be seen again though.

 

[snyder]

It looks like a square tipped screwdriver would fit in the gap and twisted to spread them open. Might have to grind a custom one.

 

[PelicanPines]

Try pushing them off... horizontal to the clip... push from the open end. Then when you get a gap on the other side... pull...

 

[Elsinore13]

What type of circlip pliers do you have? None will fit in there?

 

[APEowner]

I think you need a better pair of snap ring pliers.

 

[gatlibs]

I would take the springs off first. What set of snap ring pliers were you using? I like the Imperial ones in blue which are re-branded as everything from Lang Tools in orange to Wilde in purple and many other colors and brands. If you don't want to try a different set of snap ring pliers, then maybe try going over one side and under the next side with a pick to spread the ring.

The breakage could just be the size and wear on the part. I'm assuming that the new pawls did not come with new retaining rings.

 

[seber]

Those are meant to be removed by inserting a sharp screwdriver between them and turning to spread them. Normally the multi-tool that came with your saw would be the proper size but YMMV.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Looks like either a screwdriver or pair of c clip pliers should easily pop them off.

 

[bulletpruf]

Thanks, fellas. As mentioned, I don't think I have any snap ring pliers that will fit in that teeny hole. But I may be able to get a screwdriver in there to pry it open, especially if I can lift the clip off the pawl a bit.

 

[LXCam]

Screw driver and a magnet to catch it before it finds its way to narnia


Looking at those closer it appears you could spin them over to the thin side and either get a better grip with some snap ring pliers or at a minimum, slide a flat blade down enough to spread them easier.

 

[atlm]

I use this set of pliers for that type of retaining clip, but it's hard to tell if they'd be too large from the picture of the part:
https://www.sears.com/craftsman-external-lock-ring-pliers/p-00949273000P

They have knurled tips, like this picture:

 

[KnurledNut]

Those are Type G grip rings.

They make dedicated pliers just for assembly/removal.
They would be hard for a consumer to acquire, but you could possibly get them from a Seeger distributor.

I would take a pair of needle nose and grind or file the tips to the shape needed.

Here is what they look like:

 

[MoonRise]

Left hand hold a rag over the clip to keep it from flying off to who-knows-where, right hand puts flat-blade screwdriver of appropriate size into the gap between the ears with screwdriver shaft parallel to the axle-pin axis and applies slight torque on screwdriver to open the ears just enough to slide the retaining ring out of the groove. Done.

Don't pry 'up' on the ears to get the retaining ring out of the groove, you need to just very slightly spread the ears open to then get the ring ID to expand just enough to come out of the groove.

Or you can wedge two flat blade screwdrivers down into the ear gap to again open the gap just enough to expand the ring ID enough to come out of the groove.

Or go and get the 'special' pliers.

 

[bulletpruf]

Screw driver and a magnet to catch it before it finds its way to narnia

Looking at those closer it appears you could spin them over to the thin side and either get a better grip with some snap ring pliers or at a minimum, slide a flat blade down enough to spread them easier.

Good tip on the magnet!

Yes, you can spin 'em over to the thin side for a bit more room to get a screwdriver blade in there.

thanks for the input

 

[bulletpruf]

I use this set of pliers for that type of retaining clip, but it's hard to tell if they'd be too large from the picture of the part:
https://www.sears.com/craftsman-external-lock-ring-pliers/p-00949273000P

They have knurled tips, like this picture:

Yeah, I have some of those, but they're much too thick at the ends to fit in the gap.

Thanks

 

[ken w.]

A scribe or pick may also work if you don't have the correct size snap ring pliers.

 

[bulletpruf]

Those are Type G grip rings.

They make dedicated pliers just for assembly/removal.
They would be hard for a consumer to acquire, but you could possibly get them from a Seeger distributor.

I would take a pair of needle nose and grind or file the tips to the shape needed.

Here is what they look like:

Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!

I will check my snap ring plier drawer again to see if I have something that might work. I have some with the removable tips that might have a pair that will fit into the tiny gap.

A pair of modified needle nose might do it, too.

And I'll need to reinstall a pair, too -- they're made especially for retaining a piece where there's no groove, unlike an e-clip, which wouldn't last long here.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

Left hand hold a rag over the clip to keep it from flying off to who-knows-where, right hand puts flat-blade screwdriver of appropriate size into the gap between the ears with screwdriver shaft parallel to the axle-pin axis and applies slight torque on screwdriver to open the ears just enough to slide the retaining ring out of the groove. Done.

Don't pry 'up' on the ears to get the retaining ring out of the groove, you need to just very slightly spread the ears open to then get the ring ID to expand just enough to come out of the groove.

Or you can wedge two flat blade screwdrivers down into the ear gap to again open the gap just enough to expand the ring ID enough to come out of the groove.

Or go and get the 'special' pliers.

That will work, but now that I've realized there's no groove to worry about, it might be a bit easier.

thanks

 

[KnurledNut]

Heres the link to Seegers pliers:
https://www.seeger-orbis.com/products/assembly-tools/ring-pliers/

Heres a data chart of the rings:
http://data.seeger-orbis.de/catalog/?page=60

 

[bulletpruf]

Ok, so I had already gotten the clips off the original flywheel yesterday and boogered up the clips in the process (broke t*ts off the ends).

Tonight my simple task was to remove the clips, pawls, and springs from another flywheel and transplant them to the flywheel on the saw that I'm working on. Easy enough, right? And I even found a pair of snap ring pliers that would fit into the small space in the clips. Hooray!

And then I spent about a half an hour trying to get the clips off. And failed. Again and again. These suckers are strong! And while they're designed to be retain something without the need for a groove in the piece they're hanging onto, the flywheel is aluminum, so they eventually wore a groove in it, making it tougher to get them off.

I eventually just got the boogered up clips and re-used them. I had to close them in a bit and tap them off because they had wallowed out some when I removed 'em. Not perfect, but they'll work.

Appreciate all the input. If anyone knows where to get a Seeger tool, please let me know.

Scott

 

[ken w.]

You can get those clips at TSC.

 

[Indexmill]

Why do you have to replace the starter pawls? Usually it is the mating hub that wears from the pawls.

 

[KnurledNut]

If anyone knows where to get a Seeger tool, please let me know.

https://www.123bearing.com/section-accessory-mounting-clamps.php

 

[bulletpruf]

Why do you have to replace the starter pawls? Usually it is the mating hub that wears from the pawls.

They were on upside down and backwards, so I just needed to remove them and flip them over.

 

[bulletpruf]

https://www.123bearing.com/section-accessory-mounting-clamps.php

Thanks, I ordered one.

 

[bulletpruf]

So the Seeger tool arrived in the mail! Hooray! It wasn't cheap, but good tools generally aren't!

And as soon as I ripped the package open, I went to the garage to finally conquer the clips that had laughed at my feeble attempts to remove them. It was time to show them who the boss was!

And then this happened...





Sh*t. I wasn't even able to remove one. I'm sure I could straighten out the bent tip, but I suspect it will bend again.

Back to the drawing board...

 

[Negen]

This is what I would try. And furthermore I would first clean up the ring and put some drops of a light oil on them to make sure they have some movement. Not sure I could be wrong.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113305300925


Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[bulletpruf]

This is what I would try. And furthermore I would first clean up the ring and put some drops of a light oil on them to make sure they have some movement. Not sure I could be wrong.

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/113305300925

Sent from my G8141 using The Garage Journal mobile app

I have some similar pliers, but they're too thick at the tips to fit in the slot.

The rings are all moving; not seized.

Thanks

 

[bulletpruf]

I think I ordered the wrong pliers -- too small/weak, I think. Going to verify the size of the clips and, if I ordered the wrong pliers, I'll order the larger ones.

Thanks

 

[KnurledNut]

I think I ordered the wrong pliers -- too small/weak, I think. Going to verify the size of the clips and, if I ordered the wrong pliers, I'll order the larger ones.

Thanks

They have 5 sizes. The ones you got were the smallest.


Im curious, is there a groove on the shaft that the clip fits in?
Typically these clips are used in applications with no groove.

 

[bulletpruf]

They have 5 sizes. The ones you got were the smallest.

Im curious, is there a groove on the shaft that the clip fits in?
Typically these clips are used in applications with no groove.

Yeah, after doing a bit more research, these are the clips designed to be used on a 7 mm shaft/post, and they have an inside diameter of 6.7 mm. According to Seeger, I should be using the size 1 pliers, not the size 0. I'll get some ordered.

Also, there is a groove on the shaft, but I'm pretty sure it's created by the hard steel clip with an ID of 6.7 mm on a softer aluminum post with an OD of 7.0 mm.

From Seeger, "Seeger grip rings are designed for the assembly on shafts without a groove. Thanks to their large radial width (b) and thickness (s), the large elasticity of these rings makes them suitable for absorbing high axial forces. Parts to be secured can be installed without end play and be re-adjusted by shifting the Seeger grip rings into place. This style of grip ring is the only self-locking Seeger-Ring that can be dismantled without destroying the ring."

Thanks for the input.

Scott

 

[Milton Shaw]

Those clips are very similar to the clips on older drum brake cars emergency brakes levers. I would use a sharp scratch awl and ding the bottom of the "U" shape and then drive them off with a small hammer. A sharp pair of slip joint's pliers would grip the ends to put them back on. Worn out pliers would slip and not work, same with the scratch awl