Coach James
Well-known member
"Caustic soda=sodium hydroxide"
sodium hydroxide=Crystal Drano
Coach
sodium hydroxide=Crystal Drano
Coach
How to restore a vise?
- Thread starter Stuey
- Start date
Uncle Buck
Banned
I do not understand why you are spending so much time and effort fighting the stripping of paint issue? I already explained the easiest way to do this was let the radiator repair shop dunk it, no fuss, no muss, you get it back later the same day, perfect answer for a guy living in an apartment.
If you are not in a big hurry, you could also leave it with a local sand/abrasive blast company and tell them to set it aside and do it in a day or so or whenever they can do it at the same time they are doing a bigger job. (you might have to wait a few days to get it back but they should not charge as much since they are already up and running, to my thinking still no more than 10-15 bucks tops) I still prefer the dunk tank though.
Given you live in an apartment I would abandon any thoughts of wire wheels or for that matter any stripping chemicals. If you do get a paint stripper or something like it do not forget to shut off any pilot lights (water heater, furnace) also, if vapors get too thick I would watch turning electrical appliances and lights on and off, as any spark from even a switch could blow you to next week! (don't ask how I know this!)
If you are not in a big hurry, you could also leave it with a local sand/abrasive blast company and tell them to set it aside and do it in a day or so or whenever they can do it at the same time they are doing a bigger job. (you might have to wait a few days to get it back but they should not charge as much since they are already up and running, to my thinking still no more than 10-15 bucks tops) I still prefer the dunk tank though.
Given you live in an apartment I would abandon any thoughts of wire wheels or for that matter any stripping chemicals. If you do get a paint stripper or something like it do not forget to shut off any pilot lights (water heater, furnace) also, if vapors get too thick I would watch turning electrical appliances and lights on and off, as any spark from even a switch could blow you to next week! (don't ask how I know this!)
Uncle Buck
Banned
I just noticed the referrence to Morgan being the manufacturer of this vise, I am not familiar with that brand, but you might read my post as follows. You might still find some applicability.
Another observation regarding this vise; I did not notice any mention made regarding the brand. Going from the pics I think it is an old Columbian brand vise, if it is older and is Columbian the jaws will have a T shape with the down leg of the T being recessed into the casting of the jaws (both front and rear) and you should not have screws appearing in the serrated faces of the jaws securing the faces/jaw inserts to the vise. Old Columbian vises have pins that were driven down through the top of each jaw into the inserts then ground smooth with each jaw on top of the vise.
If I am correct and this is the way your vise is assembled, and if this is a Columbian I would strongly suggest waiting to remove the jaw inserts before you have thouroughly stripped the vise if your intention is to buy new jaw inserts for the vise. I have an old Columbian designed in the way I described that looks a lot like yours, and mine needs new jaw inserts. The serrations on the inserts are all but gone; Columbian changed the design of their vises in later years dropping the T shaped inserts secured with driven pins and they are no longer available. When such inserts were available they cost most of $100 so my point is you might want to use the model number you will most surely find on the side of the vise once it is cleaned to make sure you can get/afford replacement insets before going to the trouble of removing them. If it is a Columbian, and of the style I described I doubt you will find replacement inserts, though I would love to be proven wrong. If I am wrong please tell me where I can get such jaw inserts. Good luck with your project.
Another observation regarding this vise; I did not notice any mention made regarding the brand. Going from the pics I think it is an old Columbian brand vise, if it is older and is Columbian the jaws will have a T shape with the down leg of the T being recessed into the casting of the jaws (both front and rear) and you should not have screws appearing in the serrated faces of the jaws securing the faces/jaw inserts to the vise. Old Columbian vises have pins that were driven down through the top of each jaw into the inserts then ground smooth with each jaw on top of the vise.
If I am correct and this is the way your vise is assembled, and if this is a Columbian I would strongly suggest waiting to remove the jaw inserts before you have thouroughly stripped the vise if your intention is to buy new jaw inserts for the vise. I have an old Columbian designed in the way I described that looks a lot like yours, and mine needs new jaw inserts. The serrations on the inserts are all but gone; Columbian changed the design of their vises in later years dropping the T shaped inserts secured with driven pins and they are no longer available. When such inserts were available they cost most of $100 so my point is you might want to use the model number you will most surely find on the side of the vise once it is cleaned to make sure you can get/afford replacement insets before going to the trouble of removing them. If it is a Columbian, and of the style I described I doubt you will find replacement inserts, though I would love to be proven wrong. If I am wrong please tell me where I can get such jaw inserts. Good luck with your project.
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Uncle Buck
Banned
My floor - such a mess - now you can see why I'm searching for a folding work table.
Drilling through bottom (unmushroomed) end of the pin
What's left of the pin.
I have no idea how to replace that super-thin washer/spacer.
Why do you want to do anything with the super thin washer, it has been doing it's job just fine for a good number of years, no reason to fix what ain't broke!
It's severely corroded and looks and feels like it's about to crumble. It hasn't been doing anything for maybe 20 years or so. If I'm going to turn it brand spanking new, I'd like to rejuvenate every little part.
I know that you said I could just drop it off at a radiator repair place, but I still have not found the time to do so. I'd like to try doing it myself before I spend the effort finding a place that will do it for me, that's all.
It's not like I'd wire wheel it or use strippers in the apartment - I'd take it out to the parking lot, or take it into work with me - I've got chem lab access and decent protective gear.
What other types of shops might be able to hot tank? Hmm, what about bead blasting? Maybe a welding shop?
I know that you said I could just drop it off at a radiator repair place, but I still have not found the time to do so. I'd like to try doing it myself before I spend the effort finding a place that will do it for me, that's all.
It's not like I'd wire wheel it or use strippers in the apartment - I'd take it out to the parking lot, or take it into work with me - I've got chem lab access and decent protective gear.
What other types of shops might be able to hot tank? Hmm, what about bead blasting? Maybe a welding shop?
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billymade
Well-known member
Machine shop; your in el paso, right? www.yellowpages.com : http://www.yellowpages.com/79901~El-Paso-TX/Machine-Shops/city-El-Paso?search_terms=machine+shop
wow this thread is still going? Uncle Buck you are a wealth of info.
Why is there such fuzz about going to hot tank a vise? It's only a vise, it's not an engine block...
Maybe some wirewheel and followed MEK to clean the paint residue, Naval jelly will remove rust, followed by some wirewheel you are good to go..
It's a vise, don't try to pretend you are prepping it for chrome.. I would bet any finish with decent prep will stay on pretty good, without hot tanking..
Why is there such fuzz about going to hot tank a vise? It's only a vise, it's not an engine block...
Maybe some wirewheel and followed MEK to clean the paint residue, Naval jelly will remove rust, followed by some wirewheel you are good to go..
It's a vise, don't try to pretend you are prepping it for chrome.. I would bet any finish with decent prep will stay on pretty good, without hot tanking..
I've already checked the yellow pages and google maps - the first two places I called were less than promising. One contracts out surface prep and the other turned out to be lawn mower repair despite calling themselves a machine shop. And no, not in El Paso, in central NJ.
Surface rust I can deal with, it's the slapped on thick coats of paint I want to remove. I'll give mineral spirits and a heat gun a try before I move onto an caustic chemicals or the paint removal attachment and wire wheel that's on deck. All I'm waiting for is some free time.
Hmm, Lowes carries Naval Jelly - I'll try to pick some up this weekend.
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Uncle Buck
Banned
I whole heartetly agree, and in fact I would probably make any repairs to make it functional again myself and slap on a new coat of whatever color I desired (grey) bolt down and put to work due to the amount of effort a total strip would amount to in expended effort. Since he wants it in the best condition he can possibly get it I know tanking it is the easiest way to get there short of sand blasting. I did tank a massive vise with great success years ago, hence my suggesstion he go that way. I know it could be stripped with paint stripper, but for the cost of the stripper you could have it tanked and save yourself the mess of having to do it yourself!
billymade
Well-known member
Hear, hear! Hot Tank X2!!!
Rory Bellows
Well-known member
So you live in an apartment. Got access to a hose? Go spend $10 bucks at Lowes and get some Jasco paint stripper industrial strength. Slather it on let sit, scrape off big bubbly pieces, hose off. You might have to use some picks to remove some it tight spots. Done. You can even dip it in a bucket of water and baking soda to neutralize any remaining stripper if your worried about it.
tatra
Well-known member
hot tank x3 here.............
hguerrero
Well-known member
planning on using this vice in your apartment? If so I would chrome it and mount it to the fireplace mantel.
H
H
Uncle Buck
Banned
settle down now! 
Merkava_4
Banned
Of course I don't plan on using it! I plan on cleaning it up, painting it, and then stare at it 25 hours a day. =P
I need a heavier vise than what I've got now, and since I've seen this under my father's table countless times, I figured it's about time it got some use again.
Plus, I don't have a fireplace, so =P.
Uncle Buck
Banned
Give us a status report.
Uncle Buck
Banned
bump............................
Status: short on time, Home Depot didn't have the naval jelly or similar and I didn't have time to choose a suitable paint stripper.
I'm trying to build a computer for the wife, but parts are defective, so all my free time has been spent trying to fix that situation and arrange for replacements to be shipped so that I could get the ball rolling.
I did buy screw/bolt extractors so that I can finish disassembling the vise jaws, although now I'll definitely have to source out replacement bolts. Shouldn't be too much of a problem I hope.
As it is, or was, the vise was definitely usable, but unsightly and very rough to use. My goal is to gain some restoration experience and produce a more sightly vise that performs many steps above the $20 Wilson import-special that I've been using.
My wife was sick (I've never seen anyone shiver and shake so violently with a fever) and work and this stupid computer build delay has sucked up all my free time.
Thanks for being patient, and for all the advice of course. I called up one more machine shop in my area and they had no idea what I was talking about, so I think that I've decided on using stripper and mechanical means to remove the darn paint. A heat gun isn't out of the question, but I wouldn't want to do that in my apartment. I could definitely do that at the lab, as well as any chemical stripping that I wasn't comfortable doing here.
I'm trying to build a computer for the wife, but parts are defective, so all my free time has been spent trying to fix that situation and arrange for replacements to be shipped so that I could get the ball rolling.
I did buy screw/bolt extractors so that I can finish disassembling the vise jaws, although now I'll definitely have to source out replacement bolts. Shouldn't be too much of a problem I hope.
As it is, or was, the vise was definitely usable, but unsightly and very rough to use. My goal is to gain some restoration experience and produce a more sightly vise that performs many steps above the $20 Wilson import-special that I've been using.
My wife was sick (I've never seen anyone shiver and shake so violently with a fever) and work and this stupid computer build delay has sucked up all my free time.
Thanks for being patient, and for all the advice of course. I called up one more machine shop in my area and they had no idea what I was talking about, so I think that I've decided on using stripper and mechanical means to remove the darn paint. A heat gun isn't out of the question, but I wouldn't want to do that in my apartment. I could definitely do that at the lab, as well as any chemical stripping that I wasn't comfortable doing here.
UPDATE:
Using some stripper and mineral spirits.
I have some more stripping to do tomorrow, and need to take care of the other parts as well.
There were two or more shades of green, and a shade or beige before I hit the metal.
They're not kidding when they say wear chemical resistant gloves! It kept disintegrating my nitrile gloves! I'm going to order some heavy duty gloves for next time.
I washed all the chemicals off and then applied some WD40 after some meticulous drying.
Using some stripper and mineral spirits.
I have some more stripping to do tomorrow, and need to take care of the other parts as well.
There were two or more shades of green, and a shade or beige before I hit the metal.
They're not kidding when they say wear chemical resistant gloves! It kept disintegrating my nitrile gloves! I'm going to order some heavy duty gloves for next time.
I washed all the chemicals off and then applied some WD40 after some meticulous drying.
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twinturbosupra123
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2008
- Messages
- 54
nice cant wait to see what it looks like when you are done with it
Chief
Well-known member
great thread
Are you saying to clean the vise, without taking it appart, it can simply be bathed in a dilution of muriatic acid and it will come out looking clean?
russlaferrera
Well-known member
Muratic Acid will not take paint off, will take off rust only. You than have to neutralize it with a baking soda solution.
Frank Elson
Well-known member
now you have to clean the WD40 off before you paint it. I'd just use petrol (gas) as the Nanny Police don't come up our hill, what will you use?
filler?
I've been quite busy, so the vise restoration will have to be on hold for a while. Since everything chemical stripper and paint related has to be done outdoors, I'm waiting for a free weekend to head over to my parents' to use their backyard.
Once all the paint is gone, I'll use a wire wheel and then some mineral spirits to get a nice completely bare surface. Then will come primer and paint. Unless, of course I cannot get to it before the deep cold sets in, in which point I'll just reassemble it as-is and leave the painting for when it warms up.
I've been quite busy, so the vise restoration will have to be on hold for a while. Since everything chemical stripper and paint related has to be done outdoors, I'm waiting for a free weekend to head over to my parents' to use their backyard.
Once all the paint is gone, I'll use a wire wheel and then some mineral spirits to get a nice completely bare surface. Then will come primer and paint. Unless, of course I cannot get to it before the deep cold sets in, in which point I'll just reassemble it as-is and leave the painting for when it warms up.
The beige stuff was under the green paint everywhere. From the looks of it, the green paint was brushed on by the user. I'm assuming that the beige paint could have been the original paint color, or maybe a primer? There seemed to be a light shade of green on top of that.
I'm thinking that the original color was beige, brown, or light green.
What color are Morgan vises usually painted? My googling has not been successful.
I'm thinking that the original color was beige, brown, or light green.
What color are Morgan vises usually painted? My googling has not been successful.
jwith68
Well-known member
Check with the maker of Morgan vises: http://www.milwmal.com/home.htm
Incidentally, I just cleaned up, lubed up, and refinished an old American Scale Co. "Red Seal No. 53" (maybe No. 58, it's hard to tell) vise. It has 4" wide jaws and will open to ~7" while still maintaining full slide engagement. It is almost identical in design to your Morgan, including the tapered dovetail vise nut and angled retaining pin. I got it and a Reed 103-1/2 from my work on a sealed bid auction. The pin holding the vise nut in was already accessible from the bottom, and drove out with ease. The original was in terrible shape, and I replaced it with a 5/16" diameter spring pin (roll pin that is coiled up in several layers, not just one wrap.)
I wire brushed the whole thing clean, and masked off the jaws and slide beam to leave them bare metal, and finished the rest with rust converter. It goes on clear, and reacts with iron and light rust to leave a nice, hard, very tough black finish, kind of like a "black oxide" finished fastener, wrench, etc. It does a nice job of protecting from further rust, and will not chip or wear off nearly as easy as paint. To me it looks fine on an old vise as it is, but it makes a great primer for a top coat of paint as well.
The "Red Seal" vise is going in my Dad's shop, his old Wilton Shop King (yes, Wilton made light duty - or dare I say cheap - vises years ago, too) is sprung and you can't keep the jaws tight on it any more.
Lookin4'67Galaxieconv
Well-known member
Meant to post this pic awhile ago. This is a vise I restored ten years ago. A friend who lives on a farm gave it to me. I just sand blasted it, then re-sprayed it with spray paint. Put some lubricating oil on the thread, and it's worked fine ever since. I'll have to decide whether to put this one or another vise I have on my new workbench with the bowling alley top after I build it.
Uncle Buck
Banned
Meant to post this pic awhile ago. This is a vise I restored ten years ago. A friend who lives on a farm gave it to me. I just sand blasted it, then re-sprayed it with spray paint. Put some lubricating oil on the thread, and it's worked fine ever since. I'll have to decide whether to put this one or another vise I have on my new workbench with the bowling alley top after I build it.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^very nice vise there! IT'S PURDY!
ZRX61
Well-known member
I just fininished bead blasting a Paramo I got from a neighbor, now if I can just remember where all the other parts are....
KCarGuy
Well-known member
Stuey, Havent seen your finished product yet? How do it turn out? I have a Morgan Chicago 40 Vise, looks alot alike. I restored mine...Chevy Orange! I'm curious on your results though.
Still waiting for the weather to turn nice so I can wire-wheel away the remainin crud on the vise. With my luck, it corroded a bit while sitting in my parents' shed. Wire-wheeling is not something I can do in my apartment, so I'll set up in my parents' backyard when I'm able to visit.
Honestly, at this point I've lost a lot of the momentum and am just >this close< to giving up and just ordering one or finding a better condition 2nd hand unit.
Lookin4'67Galaxieconv
Well-known member
KCarGuy
Well-known member
I think that you"ll kick your self in the **** if you dont finish it. Is there anyone you know with a sand blaster? Check with a local Motorcycle shop...they may.
garfunkle24
Well-known member
Stuey
I only just read this thread. The "spacer/washer" you need for your vise would commonly be called a shim, like these from McMaster Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#shim-stock/=1dmj7h
You need to measure the thickness of it with a mic, or at worst a caliper, and also measure the diameter of the screw shaft which will be your shim I.D.
Pick your material, thickness, I.D. and O.D. and good to go. I just ordered from these guys as they were the only place I could find 30mm 0.1 and 0.2mm shims.
Hope it helps if you ever get back to this project.
I only just read this thread. The "spacer/washer" you need for your vise would commonly be called a shim, like these from McMaster Carr: http://www.mcmaster.com/#shim-stock/=1dmj7h
You need to measure the thickness of it with a mic, or at worst a caliper, and also measure the diameter of the screw shaft which will be your shim I.D.
Pick your material, thickness, I.D. and O.D. and good to go. I just ordered from these guys as they were the only place I could find 30mm 0.1 and 0.2mm shims.
Hope it helps if you ever get back to this project.
garfunkle24
Well-known member
You're welcome. Sorry if the post sounded a little patronising, I didn't know how familiar you were with shims. Glad I helped find something suitable anyway.
48James
Well-known member
Here's my morgan chicago vise rebuild. Hope it will help you out!
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95205&highlight=morgan+chicago
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=95205&highlight=morgan+chicago