How to support engine from above?

[BikeRider]

I'm about to try to rebuild an automatic transmission, but to remove it from this car (A140E trans, 3rd gen Camry), I have to support the engine from above. There's no safe way to do it from below from what I can tell, as the subframe has to be removed to remove the trans (its overdrive unit won't clear the subframe).

I ended up ordering a used engine support bar from Amazon in supposedly "good" condition, of this type:



I just got it today and it's missing some important parts, namely one of the two holding screws, and the chains. So it's going back.

But given that Amazon and/or the vendor tried to screw me over with an incomplete set of parts without saying so, I feel that I'm justified in trying to use it anyway, as a "free loaner". It's a one-off job and I'll probably never need it again (so he says), which is why I got it used. I just have to figure out how to securely suspend the engine, which has 2 hooks on either side, from the beam, which is solid and intact.

Any ideas? The obvious way would be with 2 strong chains and some way of securing them to themselves, but I don't have any chains. Is there anything else that would work, some kind of strong S hook or many loops of strong wire or even cord, tied well? I think the engine weighs around 430lbs. I might even be able to use the one screw and only need a way to secure the other hook.

I have some old bicycle chains that I'll never use again, and wonder if they're be strong enough, especially if I double or triple-wrap them. Apparently they can withstand at least 800lbs of force, which is plenty for this task.

...I just checked and a bike chain fits perfectly, allowing two full wraps, one on either side of the beam. Even more if I removed the 2 "feet", which in any case seem wobbly to me and unstable and secured by just a few turns of the way too short bolts attached to the upper knobs. In fact I might remove those too and use just the beam itself, resting on a solid piece of metal on either side as it overshoots the engine bay by a few inches on either side.

 

[Tynee]

Ratchet straps?

 

[HomeTheaterMan]

Those engine support setups come in handy. Although the one I've used several times is the 3 foot one, and I do really prefer that design.

 

[BikeRider]

Ratchet straps?

They're strong enough to support over 200lbs each?

 

[Wolley]

I made one like that for my car. You can get long eye bolts and S hooks at tractor supply. You may not need any chain if you can get directly over your lift point.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Just did my wife's 2014 outback clutch, used a ratchet strap. I've found you gotta be creative with lots of applications, find some good threaded unused bolt holes on the block and have at it.

 

[tak1313]

I got one to do our Saab many years ago. Still have it (the support, not the Saab). They work fine and had no problem with the weight of the engine and trans at the same time (caveat being I can't compare the one I got years ago with anything being sold now, but it LOOKS exactly the same).

In the case of the Saab, it actually had eyes built into the engine specifically for lifting/holding. If I had to hold an engine without such eyes/support, I would PERSONALLY not have an issue using chains/straps, and just being sure they are positioned such that they can't slip out of position and doesn't stress anything.

 

[Kent_B]

Just did my wife's 2014 outback clutch, used a ratchet strap. I've found you gotta be creative with lots of applications, find some good threaded unused bolt holes on the block and have at it.

I assume you removed the transaxle to replace the clutch? The last one I did (2011 Forester) I pulled the engine. That allowed really easy access to some other things that needed attention.

 

[BikeRider]

I got one to do our Saab many years ago. Still have it (the support, not the Saab). They work fine and had no problem with the weight of the engine and trans at the same time (caveat being I can't compare the one I got years ago with anything being sold now, but it LOOKS exactly the same).

In the case of the Saab, it actually had eyes built into the engine specifically for lifting/holding. If I had to hold an engine without such eyes/support, I would PERSONALLY not have an issue using chains/straps, and just being sure they are positioned such that they can't slip out of position and doesn't stress anything.

The engine in question has 2 bolted on hooks on either side for suspension from above. It might also have bolt holes for that, but I haven't looked for them. I was asking about how to suspend from the hooks, not wrapped around the engine itself.

 

[BikeRider]

I assume you removed the transaxle to replace the clutch? The last one I did (2011 Forester) I pulled the engine. That allowed really easy access to some other things that needed attention.

I can't speak for the other person but when I replaced the clutch on another car a few years ago, I was able to do it w/o removing the engine, which remained attached to the car via 3 of the 4 mounts, and just had to place a jack and wood block under the oil pan to avoid drooping. Worked just fine. On this car, a Camry, the engine can stay in, but absolutely has to be suspended as the subframe onto which it's bolted has to be removed to remove the trans.

 

[Snip's]

Those little angled pins holding the chains don't look very inspiring...

 

[Buckgnarly]

I assume you removed the transaxle to replace the clutch? The last one I did (2011 Forester) I pulled the engine. That allowed really easy access to some other things that needed attention.

Yup. If I had to do the steering rack I probably pull the engine, but it's kind of a toss up on those Subis.

 

[Wamsutta]

Here's SMA pulling a subframe on a Subaru :

 

[Wrench97]

A piece of 2x2 square tubing, make legs that slid on each end and you can wrap a ratchet strap around it to hold the motor up.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Wrap ratchet straps around the motor, pull subframe. Leave the steering linkage connected to the column if possible, ratchet strap or bungee cord the rack up to something. Saves aggravation of dealing with rust linkage.

Slinging a strap through exhaust manifold, accessory brackets, etc. Since you want to pull the trans leave the passenger side motor mount in, and try to find a way to grab the engine by the rear of the head.

Your other option which is messier is to pull the engine and trans as one unit with a cherry picker out the top. You have to touch more, but you won't be on your back. If this is the case you want to plan your pull your ac compressor off, strap it out of the way, and not open the system. Lots of options really, depends on rust and your tolerance for suffering.

 

[BikeRider]

Wrap ratchet straps around the motor, pull subframe. Leave the steering linkage connected to the column if possible, ratchet strap or bungee cord the rack up to something. Saves aggravation of dealing with rust linkage.

Slinging a strap through exhaust manifold, accessory brackets, etc. Since you want to pull the trans leave the passenger side motor mount in, and try to find a way to grab the engine by the rear of the head.

Your other option which is messier is to pull the engine and trans as one unit with a cherry picker out the top. You have to touch more, but you won't be on your back. If this is the case you want to plan your pull your ac compressor off, strap it out of the way, and not open the system. Lots of options really, depends on rust and your tolerance for suffering.

The engine is mounted to the subframe, except the dogbone which is more for vibration than support, so if I pull the latter, I can't keep the engine attached to it. Still haven't decided whether to disconnect the steering rack from the subframe or from the column. Pros and cons either way. But I'll probably disconnect it from the subframe.

Not a chance I pull the engine & trans from the top, not having a hoist or really any need to do it that way.

 

[Steve_P]

A piece of 2x2 square tubing, make legs that slid on each end and you can wrap a ratchet strap around it to hold the motor up.

Sure. But the HF one is $80. For me it's not worth it to recreate something at that price point. Even if the steel shop wasn't 35 miles away, and it is. It's like building a welder or torch cart. For most, it's not worth it.

 

[BikeRider]

Sure. But the HF one is $80. For me it's not worth it to recreate something at that price point. Even if the steel shop wasn't 35 miles away, and it is. It's like building a welder or torch cart. For most, it's not worth it.

Not sure if folks have read my post, but I already have the same kind of support beam as in the HF one, just not all the supporting hardware, but I don't think I need it for this one use. I have no moral qualms about doing this even though I'm returning the item, since they couldn't be troubled to send me a complete set.

 

[PCustoms]

They're strong enough to support over 200lbs each?

Have you ever used a ratchet strap, or looked at the ratings?

Sorry, but it's a little questionable that you bought an Amazon warehouse deal, and rather then immediately return it you feel justified to use it to your benefit and then return it.

 

[BikeRider]

Have you ever used a ratchet strap, or looked at the ratings?

Actually no, never needed one. And I actually only have one strap, to secure the trans to the trans jack when I'm pulling it, so I can't use it anyway. Pointless in buying other straps that I'll likely never use if I can find another way to do this. The engine support hooks are meant for supporting it from above and are what I'll use, being strongest and most stable.

 

[whateg01]

... I have no moral qualms about doing this even though I'm returning the item, since they couldn't be troubled to send me a complete set.

You bought it used. Good, not like new. I've had them refund a chunk of the purchase price if it's not in the condition it was listed. I don't think 2 wrongs make a right.

 

[Steve_P]

Not sure if folks have read my post, but I already have the same kind of support beam as in the HF one, just not all the supporting hardware, but I don't think I need it for this one use. I have no moral qualms about doing this even though I'm returning the item, since they couldn't be troubled to send me a complete set.

I did read your post and I understand you have something similar to the HF model.

I replied to a post saying to make one and my point was it doesn't make sense to make something like this for $80. And since you already have it, I guess I should've just said that instead. Or both.

If you're lacking the hanging hardware, buy some eyebolts, threaded rod, nuts, and coupling nuts if you want to use chain.

 

[BikeRider]

You bought it used. Good, not like new. I've had them refund a chunk of the purchase price if it's not in the condition it was listed. I don't think 2 wrongs make a right.

They wasted my time, which has value, and I'm getting it back this way, instead of a partial refund that still wouldn't solve my problem of how to use this as is. It's already used, so it's not like I'll be returning it in non-new condition.

 

[BikeRider]

Have you ever used a ratchet strap, or looked at the ratings?

Sorry, but it's a little questionable that you bought an Amazon warehouse deal, and rather then immediately return it you feel justified to use it to your benefit and then return it.

They pulled one on me so I'm doing the same. They'll get it back in essentially the same shape I got it in. It's clearly been used before and can support nearly triple what this engine weighs so it shouldn't bend or break.

What they did is basically the same as when someone returns something bought new but clearly used and missing parts, and expecting a full refund for any reason other than that it didn't perform to expectations.

I'm pretty sure that most people have done worse and just don't own up to it.

 

[PCustoms]

They wasted my time, which has value, and I'm getting it back this way, instead of a partial refund that still wouldn't solve my problem of how to use this as is. It's already used, so it's not like I'll be returning it in non-new condition.

Seems what you received matches what you ordered:

 

[BikeRider]

Seems what you received matches what you ordered:

Since you seem to insist on playing moral cop here, I looked up my order, and what I bought was listed as "Used - Like New":

Items Ordered	Price​
1 of: VEVOR Engine Support Bar 1100 Lbs Capacity Engine Transverse Bar Engine Hoist 2 Point Lift Holder Hoist Dual Hooks, Engine Hoist Keeps Engine Stable for Home Garages & Auto Repair Shop Sold by: Amazon.com Services, Inc Supplied by: Other Condition: Used - Like New Looks and functions as if it were new. Minor packaging damage observed during inspection.

But it was used and NOT "like new", so they screwed me over, either too lazy to verify the contents or hoping I wouldn't notice or care and eat it. So they're either really incompetent or really dishonest. I'll sleep just fine. End of discussion.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The engine is mounted to the subframe, except the dogbone which is more for vibration than support, so if I pull the latter, I can't keep the engine attached to it. Still haven't decided whether to disconnect the steering rack from the subframe or from the column. Pros and cons either way. But I'll probably disconnect it from the subframe.

Not a chance I pull the engine & trans from the top, not having a hoist or really any need to do it that way.

Gotcha, I googled 3rd gen camry, I was thinking of the later generation.

With no engine crane you want to get the subframe ready to come out, and the trans ready to split. Maybe 2 bolts loosely holding the bell housing to the block, and break the "seal". Then strap up the engine, and drop out the subframe competely, you want the rack, sway bar, control arm stuff already dealt with. Once you get the subframe out from under the car, get the nose up as high as you reasonably can, then remove the trans. You don't want to be doing a lot with the engine suspended (and wiggling while you work), or with the subframe out. Get as much as you can apart prior, then pull everything. Same deal going back in, get it trans mostly in and lined up on the dowels, TC hardware started. Then lower down, slide the subframe under, and get it mostly in place and the mounts lined up. Then you can remove the support bar and actually have room to work.

 

[BikeRider]

Gotcha, I googled 3rd gen camry, I was thinking of the later generation.

With no engine crane you want to get the subframe ready to come out, and the trans ready to split. Maybe 2 bolts loosely holding the bell housing to the block, and break the "seal". Then strap up the engine, and drop out the subframe competely, you want the rack, sway bar, control arm stuff already dealt with. Once you get the subframe out from under the car, get the nose up as high as you reasonably can, then remove the trans. You don't want to be doing a lot with the engine suspended (and wiggling while you work), or with the subframe out. Get as much as you can apart prior, then pull everything. Same deal going back in, get it trans mostly in and lined up on the dowels, TC hardware started. Then lower down, slide the subframe under, and get it mostly in place and the mounts lined up. Then you can remove the support bar and actually have room to work.

I mostly have the procedure mapped out, just needed a way to suspend the engine safely while the subframe was out to pull the trans. Thankfully I have a trans jack, so I'm good there. I actually might reinstall the subframe once the trans is out to mount the engine to it without torquing down the mount bolts, so I can close the hood at night, since I'll be doing all this on the street.

Stupid design, I think, just to remove a trans. This is my mom's car. On my car the trans comes out without removing the subframe, which in any case doesn't hold either the engine or trans, just the suspension and cross and center members. But, it is what it is and I have to just go with it. And this is all apart from actually rebuilding the trans, which I've only done on a manual, not auto. But I've done the prep work and have the trans FSM and am pretty sure I know what to do.

 

[cgrutt]

I rebuilt my F150s transmission last year and it was much easier than I expected and is still running great. There were a bunch of videos on transmissionbench.com that were very helpful but I don't know if he has Toyota. I didn't need to strap engine in the F150 but I did strap transmission when I pulled motor in wife's car. I just used an old jack handle across the shock towers and a pair of ratchet straps it worked fine. Good luck!

 

[BikeRider]

I rebuilt my F150s transmission last year and it was much easier than I expected and is still running great. There were a bunch of videos on transmissionbench.com that were very helpful but I don't know if he has Toyota. I didn't need to strap engine in the F150 but I did strap transmission when I pulled motor in wife's car. I just used an old jack handle across the shock towers and a pair of ratchet straps it worked fine. Good luck!

Thanks for the encouragement, I think I'll need it! I rebuilt my car's manual trans a few years ago and while conceptually it was fairly simple, there were a lot of little details I had to be careful about and small parts I needed to order, some from Japan, plus it was my first time at it, so it took nearly a month. But it's worked great ever since.

Well, mostly, as there's been this very minor leak that's probably from improperly RTVing the case sections, so I'll redo it once I'm done with my mom's trans. I'm pretty sure that the latter only needs some new friction parts, e.g. clutch discs, band, etc., and new o-rings, gaskets & seals. I'll also replace the rear main seal as it would be stupid not to.

 

[cgrutt]

It was my first time as well check out some of the videos on transmissionbench even if he doesn't have a video on your exact transmission it will show entire process from beginning to end. He may have something on Toyota I don't know but the videos were like taking a class at community College. Good luck!

 

[BikeRider]

It was my first time as well check out some of the videos on transmissionbench even if he doesn't have a video on your exact transmission it will show entire process from beginning to end. He may have something on Toyota I don't know but the videos were like taking a class at community College. Good luck!

Thanks, will do, but there are videos specific to this trans on YT that I've seen and will watch again. Plus most auto trans work basically the same, so even videos on other trans are helpful. I also took out some books on auto trans from the library.

And, in some ways it seems easier to rebuild than a manual trans, especially if the gears and other "hard" parts are ok and it's mostly the "soft" parts that need replacement, which I think is the case here (no reverse, likely a worn clutch disc or band).

With my manual trans some of the inner hub dog teeth gears and shift forks were worn and needed to be replaced, which required special tools to press them off and the new ones back on. Plus to do it right you have to use the right thickness shims, which require a special procedure that's quite a pain, involving solder.

 

[cgrutt]

Different guy but here's part 1 of 15 on the A140E if you need it. I haven't watched so no idea if it's good or not but at least a point of reference if you get stuck.

 

[Citation]

OP, for what it's worth, in addition to the transmission jack you might use a ratchet ******** the support you bought to help remove/install the transmission. Years back I changed the clutch in a Corolla. Since this was done in a drive way I used a floor jack to help remove the transmission. When it came time to reinstall a friend and I struggled for a full afternoon trying to get things to line up just right while bent over the fenders trying to get things back together with a floor jack under the car. Then I had an idea to grab some 2x4s and a ratcheting strap and make something similar to what you bought. It only needed to be strong enough to support the transmission in my case. I used some thinner cord around the gearbox and the ratchet strap like a small hoist. It was actually really easy to get the gearbox in after that. With the box suspended it was so much easier to shift, rotate etc. The odd shape and balance of the gearbox didn't matter since the strap was holding it from above.

If I were in your shoes I would use the transmission jack but I would also consider trying to use a rope+ratchet from above to help support the box.

 

[BikeRider]

Different guy but here's part 1 of 15 on the A140E if you need it. I haven't watched so no idea if it's good or not but at least a point of reference if you get stuck.

Yeah I've seen this one, and some of his other videos. Useful, but sometimes hard to understand his English!

 

[BikeRider]

OP, for what it's worth, in addition to the transmission jack you might use a ratchet ******** the support you bought to help remove/install the transmission. Years back I changed the clutch in a Corolla. Since this was done in a drive way I used a floor jack to help remove the transmission. When it came time to reinstall a friend and I struggled for a full afternoon trying to get things to line up just right while bent over the fenders trying to get things back together with a floor jack under the car. Then I had an idea to grab some 2x4s and a ratcheting strap and make something similar to what you bought. It only needed to be strong enough to support the transmission in my case. I used some thinner cord around the gearbox and the ratchet strap like a small hoist. It was actually really easy to get the gearbox in after that. With the box suspended it was so much easier to shift, rotate etc. The odd shape and balance of the gearbox didn't matter since the strap was holding it from above.

If I were in your shoes I would use the transmission jack but I would also consider trying to use a rope+ratchet from above to help support the box.

I have a strap for the trans jack but another one suspended from above makes sense. I agree, getting a trans back on is a major pain what with needing to align it just right and being careful to not break or bend anything. It's taken me hours to do it.

But once it's in, there's SUCH a feeling of relief! (That's what she said, pa dum bum...)

 

[The Cobbler]

It's sad to see the moral ethics of much of our society , yet it's so easy to yak on about hot retailer X has such a difficult return policy .

 

[Wamsutta]

I've never used one of those engine support braces, but I'm going to eventually.

The service manual gives me all the Kent-Moore part numbers for all the different pieces, but they are some expensive mother effers.

 

[WWheeler]

The Horror Fright one works fine and can be had for ~$60-$65 regularly w/ coupon.

You can set up a price alert to get an email next time it's on sale here: https://hfpricetracker.com/tools/96524

 

[BikeRider]

It's sad to see the moral ethics of much of our society , yet it's so easy to yak on about hot retailer X has such a difficult return policy .

Not doing anything remotely unethical given how unethical the vendor behaved. I ordered a used like new product, got one missing key parts, tried to use it, decided it wasn't up to par, returned it. When vendors take care of their customers, customers are obliged to take care of the vendors. When they don't, all bets are off.