How would you build a split level shop?

[aShop]

What do you guys think might be the most cost effective way to build a split level shop.

 

[mrbill55]

I'll assume your building lot has a steep slope, what are your plans for the lower level?
As for cost effective, I see a pre-engineered steel structure in your future.

Bill S.

 

[Youngandfree]

Excavate deeper and make it all 1 level.

 

[PCustoms]

What do you guys think might be the most cost effective way to build a split level shop.

With materials.


To get a more meaningful answer, some details are probably required.

 

[Zeke]

Come on guys, he put an arrow there to indicate his concern. Gonna need a retaining wall and some compaction. The ideal way is to not have to have more fill delivered or trucked away. Plan your grading accordingly. You do need some compacted base, so allow for that while computing.

 

[tyyost]

What kind of soil? Erosion issues, large retaining walls, water run off?

Having multiple levels with a differential in grade like your drawing could be a host of problems, especially with the orientation you drew. Heck, just driving off the edge could be an issue depending on how you lay it out. There are some great examples of hillside garages but I don’t think I’ve seen one like you proposed in the gallery.

Do the doors all have to face the same way? Maybe the lower garage is oriented 90 degrees to the upper? And you just build an extra deep footer and wall at that connection?

 

[428PI]

That's exactly what my shed is that I'm remodeling. It takes lots of compacted limestone and concrete to make it all work. The lower part is just a lean to. You can get an idea from my post on carsiding on 36 inch stud spacing in this forum. Just got the door installed in the wall tonight.

 

[kwb]

If it is all intended to be shop space - Don't do it. The only way I might consider this is if you had a dedicated woodshop and you weren't going to be rolling things around and want to partition it off for dust reasons. Going up and down those 3-4 stairs is going to get real old real fast.

Lean to, simple parking under the lower part okay.

As long as it is less than 4' high as far as retaining wall goes then your normal poured 8" footing wall is going to be just fine.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Make sure to have good gutters and a good drainage plan. Otherwise, you will be shelling out dollars later to resolve.

 

[larry4406]

Fairly common what the OP wants to do.

Where the arrow is drawn, that foundation wall sits on a footing. I like cast in place concrete walls but you could do CMU's. This wall could stop at the upper slab elevation or continue higher with a raised stem. If it stops at the upper slab, the upper slab could sit on top of it. If a raised stem, then install a slab ledge on the wall. My preference is a raised stem.

The uphill side of this wall is water proofed, drain tile is installed, and gravel with filter fabric is installed. This protects the lower side from water intrusion. This drain tile runs thru the footing and is day-lit if possible or will run to a sump crock at the lower slab.

The upper slab near this wall will be on compromised soil due to the excavation for this wall and presumably your original sloping grade. You have 2 options for this slab that I see

1. Structural slab ($$$)
2. Backfill fully with #57gravel then install a slab on grade (usually cheaper - more $ for gravel but less $ in the slab, less $ overall)

This picture shows a raised wall with a slab ledge for the uphill slab. Note the water proofing to protect the downhill structure.


This picture shows conventional draintile installed on the uphill side of the foundation wall. Note the waterproofing up to the slab ledge.



This picture shows that the overdig area for the foundation wall has been backfilled with #57 gravel. The gravel provides structural support for the slab at the overdig region while the remainder of the slab is supported on bearing soil.



Normal slab on grade prepped and poured for the uphill and downhill portions.






Hope this helps.

 

[STClurker]

I wouldn't, next question

 

[kbs2244]

it will give you a chance to have a wide open "pit" with simple wheel tracks off the edge of the upper level

I saw this done at a dealer shop in MA
they had 3 repair bays facing the drop off with tracks in front
any under the car work was done by pulling the car forward onto the tracks

 

[CraigStu]

No big deal as we did exactly that. We were trying to add an extra garage bay to a 2 car garage. But the ground to the left of the existing garage sloped away to the left and rear. In N Va there was a code that said that if the ground is more than X ft below the new slab floor that slab would need to be supported by piers. Contractor did some measuring and said, if we drop the new slab/floor down 4 steps we can get you a 16Wx22D bay. I said works for me. I lost the floor space in the new bay that the 4 steps took up. The footers and block foundation were keyed into the side of the existing foundation by drilling and epoxying in rebar which was then poured over w/ the new foundation. We stepped the new bay back about 2 feet which made it easy to set the new roof slightly below the 1 ft overhang of the existing roof. Yours is slightly different and so you would need to design new roof height to allow a full sized doorway to fit below that roof. BTW, on mine we cut 2 studs out of the wall so we had about a 4ft walk though but no door. I went to JoAnnes and bought some of their heaviest clear plastic. Cut it into about 15in wide strips and hung them over the opening. I set the overlaps so it was easy to just walk right through from the most common direction. that way I could easily heat and cool my new bay whenever I needed to.

 

[Joemctag]

it will give you a chance to have a wide open "pit" with simple wheel tracks off the edge of the upper level

I saw this done at a dealer shop in MA
they had 3 repair bays facing the drop off with tracks in front
any under the car work was done by pulling the car forward onto the tracks

No pit to impound vapors or to accidentally step into. They had a rail or chains at the upper slab edge drop-off, for sure. Sounds like a great solution.
I’ve seen home-made steel ramps in people’s yards heading off over a drop-off ; same purpose.

 

[billconner]

It's all new, built at one time, correct? And Zeke is right - plan it so no fill brought in or taken out.

Hard to say what is most cost effective without knowing your leanings on rest construction: stick or pole or metal; footings below frost or shallow frost protected foundation; other doors or grade issues; climate and plans to heat/cool. They all impact this a little.

I have to ask, why not continue roof line?

 

[firebirdparts]

My only non-obvious comment is Tie the upper floor into that wall and it‘ll hold your fill back.

 

[billconner]

My only non-obvious comment is Tie the upper floor into that wall and it‘ll hold your fill back.

of course - like a beam braced by both floors.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Looks like a good opportunity for a loading dock.

 

[aShop]

What kind of soil? Erosion issues, large retaining walls, water run off?

Heavy clay with a lot of rock. It drains well with no erosion issues.

The only way I might consider this is if you had a dedicated woodshop

You got it. Woodshops and metal shops don't mix.

The upper slab near this wall will be on compromised soil due to the excavation for this wall and presumably your original sloping grade. You have 2 options for this slab that I see

1. Structural slab ($$$)
2. Backfill fully with #57gravel then install a slab on grade (usually cheaper - more $ for gravel but less $ in the slab, less $ overall)

Thanks for the detailed response. I think gravel is going to be the way to do it.
I guess you answered one of my questions. I wondered if this could be build with poles in the ground. If sounds like it probably cannot for the center wall.

It's all new, built at one time, correct? And Zeke is right - plan it so no fill brought in or taken out.

Hard to say what is most cost effective without knowing your leanings on rest construction: stick or pole or metal; footings below frost or shallow frost protected foundation; other doors or grade issues; climate and plans to heat/cool. They all impact this a little.

I have to ask, why not continue roof line?

Yes this is new. I would like to have it dried in all at one time. If the insulation and concrete can come later then it moves the whole project up.
The smaller space will be kept at or near room temperature all the time. The bigger space will have some climate control, but not that much.

 

[steve308]

I'd have the roof of the lower level match / join the slope of the upper level. The more headroom the better.

 

[larry4406]

@aShop

"Thanks for the detailed response. I think gravel is going to be the way to do it.
I guess you answered one of my questions. I wondered if this could be build with poles in the ground. If sounds like it probably cannot for the center wall."

At the center wall, you might be able to cast in place appropriate anchors to connect your posts.

 

[aShop]

I'd have the roof of the lower level match / join the slope of the upper level. The more headroom the better.

Anything over 13 in the smaller space would be excess space to heat. I also think it will make the building look more interesting. I am open to the idea if there is a big cost savings in there.

 

[billconner]

I don't know your planned building system but just a header over the retaining wall - clear span or intermediate posts - and continuous rafters - or maybe just tjis and no header - seems much simpler and a savings. 2 roofs, 2 eaves, that short wall - why?

 

[428PI]

Here's what my shed looks like. Foundation only goes a few inches into ground so it floats and has been up over 100 years. 5.5 to 7.5 inches of concrete inside. 2nd pic is inside load bearing wall.