MattGarage
Well-known member
Here's a neat challenge for you welders! How would you fix this guy?
How Would You Repair (Rollercoaster!)
- Thread starter MattGarage
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signcrafter
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Jb weld
chris142
Well-known member
Bevel the edges then weld. Then I would add another support as close to that one as possible.
Crack = brittle failure has occurred.
Replacement of at least part of that connection area is probably needed. And it looks like the alignment is off for the various parts of the structure (if I can see the vertical alignment is off by several inches from a web picture, then the alignment is OFF!).
This is NOT just a weld-it-up type of repair.
First step is to determine the EXACT how and why the crack occurred. Could be material problem, or structure problem, or foundation problem, or fabrication problem.
Replacement of at least part of that connection area is probably needed. And it looks like the alignment is off for the various parts of the structure (if I can see the vertical alignment is off by several inches from a web picture, then the alignment is OFF!).
This is NOT just a weld-it-up type of repair.
First step is to determine the EXACT how and why the crack occurred. Could be material problem, or structure problem, or foundation problem, or fabrication problem.
Same way I saw a mexican dude fixing a tilt-a-whirl at a local traveling carnival a few years back - weld it overhead in the rain using a section of coat hanger. I remember thinking the two stacked pairs of sunglasses and wet bandanna acting as a face shield may not have been OSHA approved?
nadogail
Well-known member
One of my employees says he is a Mex I Can, sometimes you do the best you can with what you have.
mrbill55
Well-known member
Remove and replace for the short term, welding is not the cause of the break, so the next step would be to X-ray the break then Inspect under a microscope to see where the metallurgy failed and caused the crack in an area that was not near the welded area.Here's a neat challenge for you welders! How would you fix this guy?
Long term-Redesign the mount to provide additional bracing and support so that a stress crack such as the one shown will not occur again. Lives are on the line, and either the casting was at fault, or the original design of that part of the structure is.
Bill S.
danski0224
Well-known member
Root pass with JB Weld.
Cap with Flex Seal.
Cap with Flex Seal.
It reminds me of when a guy asked when the last time the bungee rope was changed. The last time it broke pendejo.
jack stand
Well-known member
I wonder how old that is? Trying to imagine the stresses just from expansion from temperature change is mind boggling.
I bet it's shut down forever just in legal battles.
I bet it's shut down forever just in legal battles.
I've done 2 sunglasses before. Forgot my helmet and needed to git r dun.
Mind you, was maybe 10 mins of welding.
Jeff Ivers
Well-known member
Looks like a design flaw to me. Isn't the top of that "Y" connection a natural stress point with the legs of the "Y" firmly anchored, aren't the natural forces of that coaster going round the curve trying to break that support - exactly where it broke?
WoodsTruck
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- Jan 12, 2013
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At this time, that can't be the only point showing stress.
bcschief
Well-known member
I would replace the whole upright the liability is too great to repair also I would have the manufacture do the job to keep most of the liability on them. Edit I read an article early this morning indicating that they will replace the column and test the ride and then have a 3rd party company test the ride before reopening it. On a side note, they should also review their safety protocol from what I read the person who witnessed this had to call the local fire department to get the ride stopped, this should not happen.
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billconner
Well-known member
Was the person who reported in the park or outside? And what fire department? She lived an hour away. Just really wondered when did a park employee get the report.
The Tool Tyrant
ALLIANCE MEMBER
Looks like the crack initiated at the upper point of the 'Y' branch weld. Noting the centrifugal force of the coaster is pushing on the joint, I would design the 'Y' to tie into the vertical column directly across from the horizontal attachment point (180° from current location)...which I would assume the designer would have placed it, but most likely due to ground placement constraints, they placed it at the only point that fit the layout.
steel 35
Well-known member
From the Crain,
Too high!
at 300‘ no can weld.
Too high!
at 300‘ no can weld.
428PI
Well-known member
I would call in the crew from "Pakistan truck repair" youtube video fame. They can repair anything in the middle of the street. The can weld in sandals standing on a wet street and grind without safety glasses etc.
I doubt there will be any short term repair. I bet it'll be "cast of thousands/years in the making" analyzing root cause of the failure and other weak points in the design/construction of this ride. I wouldn't be surprised if this ride never opens again once the lawyers and regulators join the "party". It looks like stress/temperature variation fluctuation could have been factors.
As that curved track heats up (expands) and cools down (contracts) it's putting huge stress on that point to where metal fatigue took it's tole. I wonder is that area was already weak from the weld a few inches away.
As that curved track heats up (expands) and cools down (contracts) it's putting huge stress on that point to where metal fatigue took it's tole. I wonder is that area was already weak from the weld a few inches away.
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welder4956
Well-known member
As a welder, I would not even attempt a repair on this type of structure without a written repair plan from a registered professional structural engineer. Too much liability to do otherwise. It's not just a "grind out the crack and weld" type of job. This would most likely require unbolting the damaged section and replacing with new material, and some design changes. From the appearance, the crack started at the Wye and there may have been some local deflection of the vertical pipe. Could require a reinforcement saddle at the Wye. I doubt that thermal expansion/contraction was a factor. More likely fatigue due to the loads from the cars. Engineering evaluation would be required to make sure the repair fixes the real problem, not just the symptoms.
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bcschief
Well-known member
I would imagine they just dialed 911 so should have been local based on the GPS on the phone.
Lassen Forge
Well-known member
You have the ride manufacturer fab up the replacement for that joint, air freight it to the location, pull the old one and replace it with the new one. Until then, sorry folks, the ride is closed. For something generating that much lateral moment, unless you had a certified bridge welder I wouldn't trust that thing not to **** out, and even then, I'd expect that to reappear in a different location of the ride.
My question is who is doing their inspections, and what training do the have? We did biannual edge to edge inspections on bridges in teams of 2 or more, depending on the location. Someone SHOULD have seen the signs this was starting to give way... before it got to that point.
I'll give you the worse one. That thing breaking like that, generating unusual side thrust twisting to the whole structure in that area, you could now have a break in a different part of the ride caused by that weird torquing of the affected steel.
My question is who is doing their inspections, and what training do the have? We did biannual edge to edge inspections on bridges in teams of 2 or more, depending on the location. Someone SHOULD have seen the signs this was starting to give way... before it got to that point.
I'll give you the worse one. That thing breaking like that, generating unusual side thrust twisting to the whole structure in that area, you could now have a break in a different part of the ride caused by that weird torquing of the affected steel.
rsanter
Well-known member
Bevel the crack
Pull into alignment
Weld her up.
Grind weld flat.
Weld a sleeve with punched holes over the weld repaired area
Pull into alignment
Weld her up.
Grind weld flat.
Weld a sleeve with punched holes over the weld repaired area
obvious repair is Duck Tape.
No engineer / firm will sign this off.
whateg01
Well-known member
None of that is cast anything. It's all plate or structural tube.
whateg01
Well-known member
That was my thought. Then I read somewhere the park said they inspect the ride daily. I find it hard to believe that whole thing just fractured all at once.
jack stand
Well-known member
Yeah I'd be surprised if its not in the scrapyard before they open next season.
whateg01
Well-known member
One would think there would be a lot of scrutiny concerning the rest of the ride
mrbill55
Well-known member
Yes, I realize I used the wrong verbiage at the time, we can only assume rolled steel, or extruded steel was used, yet a flaw in the material most likely caused a tiny stress crack, which grew larger and larger. The press release by the owners of the coaster, who praised the original builder and designer, state it was started at a weld, and that caused the crack, but if you look at the type of crack, and it's jagged trajectory, there is far more to it than just a faulty weld. Hence my original concerns with seamless vs welded tubing, and the root cause of the issue, which then caused the crack to start. I am equally concerned that their daily inspection(s) did not find this, as that damage did not happen suddenly, but over the course of days, maybe even weeks. I'm betting we, the general public, will never know. I'll be curious to see if it is replaced with an identical replacement, or if a new design, or some type of additional bracing or support structure is added. Again, I'd be worried if it was not.
Bill S.
...and any similar rides designed/built by the same manufacturer. Sure looks like the design failed vs. a flaw in the steel.
billconner
Well-known member
I suggest the design didn't fail. The redundancy of the design allowed a part to fail yet no injuries or fatalities. Single point failure proofing at its finest. Hats off to the designers (who have designed boatloads of roller coasters and other amusement rides.)
I agree with your point about redundancy. However if it was dynamic stress that caused this member to eventually crack/fatigue rather then a latent defect in the steel, doesn't that imply a design problem?
IndyGarage
Well-known member
Nobody got hurt, so it was not good that it failed, but it was caught in time, which is good.
The weld repair is pretty simple. They have to weld those rides to put them up, so some engineer will sign off on the repair, but they'll probably have to over engineer it by double or triple, so it doesn't cause a liability problem in the future.
This might involve the park's insurance company as well as a certification organization.
I said in another thread - there is something wrong with the weld. I'm betting there were cracks in the weld. And I'm not sure about the thickness or heat treat of the pipe, because it broke too. I would say they are going to have to inspect all the welds that were done in a similar fashion.
They might put some kind of flexible or movable joint in place, because they clearly have some high forces at this location.
The weld repair is pretty simple. They have to weld those rides to put them up, so some engineer will sign off on the repair, but they'll probably have to over engineer it by double or triple, so it doesn't cause a liability problem in the future.
This might involve the park's insurance company as well as a certification organization.
I said in another thread - there is something wrong with the weld. I'm betting there were cracks in the weld. And I'm not sure about the thickness or heat treat of the pipe, because it broke too. I would say they are going to have to inspect all the welds that were done in a similar fashion.
They might put some kind of flexible or movable joint in place, because they clearly have some high forces at this location.
billconner
Well-known member
Yes "if", but I'm leaning towards the materials or fabrication or installation or some totally unexpected cause.
This article has a little more background:
mrbill55
Well-known member
"Ohio-based Clermont Steel Fabricators is known for making Bolliger & Mabillard roller coasters. On Wednesday, president Daniel Crumbaker said the company is not part of the repair, and declined further comment."
This statement alone is glaring and leaves a lot to the imagination. Someone is going to have to take the blame for this incident, and I see that the steel fabricator may be in line for that position.
Bill S.
sqznby
Well-known member
Who ever built it should be responsible.
Personally, I'd evaluate the situation and figure out what is going on. There is obviously a tremendous amount of force being sent through that section.
Remove the entire section because it is bolted together and rebuild it with some extra reinforcement, internal and external. Sleeving and gussets.
It would be a serious amount of work but, I'd also evaluate the incoming and outgoing sections as well and add some more structural bracing to help spread the load.
Personally, I'd evaluate the situation and figure out what is going on. There is obviously a tremendous amount of force being sent through that section.
Remove the entire section because it is bolted together and rebuild it with some extra reinforcement, internal and external. Sleeving and gussets.
It would be a serious amount of work but, I'd also evaluate the incoming and outgoing sections as well and add some more structural bracing to help spread the load.
nadogail
Well-known member
I noticed that you are being the “Monday Morning Quarterback”.