go_n_low88
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2010
- Messages
- 85
So sorry to hear about your loss. Quite the damage it did.. Did we hear what the cause of the fire was?
I just lost HALF my tools!
- Thread starter fflintstone
- Start date
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
As posted before, I will not comment on the cause of the fire until after the final settlement.
I finished with the toolbox inventory today and will have my wife send it in tomorrow. I am still finding stuff in the ashes of the shed. Tonight I found a good-sized chunk of brass and solder together. I am trying to think what it might be. My best guess currently is that it was an antique blowtorch.
scott37300
Well-known member
I couldn't even imaging how I would come up with a list of replacement tools. I've had things stolen before and sometimes it's years before I go to use something and it's missing, don't think I could ever remember everything I had in the garage. I really need to go threw all my boxes and get some sort of list together. No clue how to keep adding to it to keep it up to date. Also I have so many things like saw blades, hardware, electrical terminals and many, many other things that add up real fast that would take for ever to inventory.
A block away from me there was a garage fire this past Sunday early morning. It was a pretty big detached garage with a loft above it. They aren't releasing many details at all. But there was a lady in her late 70s living above the garage that didn't make it out. Garage is nothing more than a pile a couple feet high of black ash, used to be a two story garage.
Hopefully your insurance company comes threw for you, think we are all pulling for you that the rebuild is as smooth as possible.
A block away from me there was a garage fire this past Sunday early morning. It was a pretty big detached garage with a loft above it. They aren't releasing many details at all. But there was a lady in her late 70s living above the garage that didn't make it out. Garage is nothing more than a pile a couple feet high of black ash, used to be a two story garage.
Hopefully your insurance company comes threw for you, think we are all pulling for you that the rebuild is as smooth as possible.
weadjust
Well-known member
Don't forget about the supplemental coverages on a homeowner's policy. Debris Removal and Damage to trees, lawns, or shurbs could come into play if damaged by the fire.
NASTYZEN
Well-known member
Aw **** man!Sorry to hear the bad news.At least it wasn't you or any one in your family.Also lucky in your bad luck that it wasn't your nice cattle barn.****, **** ,****.I feel for you.
Maybe you can have all the wrenches re nickle plated.It's fairly cheap to have done.They may of been annealed though,would be wise to check how hard they are before getting anything done to them.
Best of luck with the insurance guys!
Maybe you can have all the wrenches re nickle plated.It's fairly cheap to have done.They may of been annealed though,would be wise to check how hard they are before getting anything done to them.
Best of luck with the insurance guys!
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
Yeah, if it was the shop I don’t think the 10% cap on outbuildings would quite cover it.
As far as the wrenches they are toast, but I hope to one day make some really cool metal sculptures with them.
So far the insurance company is very lethargic, we have heard nothing since they came out and looked.
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
So Saturday I was working on going thru the “charcoal” looking for bits of metal. I wanted to find the 5th crankshaft. I got real sick of using a coal shovel and spreading it out on some OSB to sift thru it. I just said F@#$ it. I asked my wife to help me, and got out the tractor. With her helping shovel into the bucket I was able to get it done in less than an hour. After the first bucket my wife found the final crankshaft. I still have the remains of two walls to take down and I have to load up metal scrap for my neighbor.
I burned all the charred beams and large chunks of wood. I tried to burn up all the “charcoal” but it is still to wet from the fire department. If the insurance company doesn’t come thru with a dumpster, then I will bury it. I am tired of looking at that ****.
I burned all the charred beams and large chunks of wood. I tried to burn up all the “charcoal” but it is still to wet from the fire department. If the insurance company doesn’t come thru with a dumpster, then I will bury it. I am tired of looking at that ****.
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
Anything from your freindly insurance company??Progress on your clean up?
We finally emailed our guy and he is waiting on contact from the fire chief before he can do much. So no joy with insurance yet. I do have a minimum dollar amount figured that I will accept now. So hopefully they will come in above that. I am getting sick at looking at new stuff, I can’t find a USA made double bit axe, or sledgehammer made in the USA. Even so much of the craftsman hand tools are now made in china. AARRGGHH!
I had gotten a lot of the “charcoal” up with the front end loader on Saturday. I had wanted to take down the remaining two walls and start straitening and stacking all the metal siding. (I am a cheap ******* and will reuse it for some type of lean to storage out back).
But unfortunately we got 10” of snow Wednesday and I am dead in the water on that now. I am going to give most of the scrap metal to a neighbor that scraps. I will keep some of it for art projects. The 11hp Subaru/robin engine is kinda neat; it is now a foot square 1” thick slab of aluminum with the cast iron cyl liner laying in it sideways.
People on the other garage forum have actually sent me tools to help me build back up my tool kit. That was truly awesome when the first package arrived Tuesday! The kindness of strangers with a common interest is truly awesome!
tdkkart
Well-known member
What, the fire chief has to verify that it was a fire that did all the damage??
This has been almost 3 full weeks, I'd be standing on the insurance company's front steps by now, no excuse for this much delay.
rickairmedic
Well-known member
TDK I think it was almost 2 weeks before I even saw an adjuster after our fire . I will admit it would be great if they moved a little faster but they dont and most likely the Ins company needs the Fire marshal/ investigator's report in order to procede with the claim.
Rick
jabberwoki
Well-known member
Sorry about your shop mate if there is any thing any of us can do don`t hesitate to post your needs up as we are all brothers here!
birdman1
Well-known member
Sorry to hear about your loss.I had a scare a few years back--dropped a rattle can of paint close to a floor gas heater, had a fire extinugisher close by and put out the base cabinet. I have still not taken pics of the tools and power tools we have in the shop but we all should do this. Lay out side grinders etc on a bench and take pictures of these and all the stuff haning on the walls. Put these pics in a safe box or fire proof safe and hopefully will never need to show them for a claim. A power tool with a plastic case will burn up and leave only a small armature that you may sweep up and never know what it was, while cleaning up the debris you can miss small things that was an $75.00 tool and never think to claim it.Thank God no one was hurt.
Mike
Mike
csargents1546
Well-known member
Is there any tools you need in the mean time untill the insurance company cuts you a check? Maybe a list of some kind. I have some extra tools willing to donate. As said by everyone this is a terrible thing to happen. Hoping everything gets settled soon.
Motown 454
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,359
Sorry to hear this , I just saw the thread. I hope it works out for you with the insurance co. They can be a b*tch to work with for a settlement.
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
For the entire interaction with our insurance adjuster, we received three replies to three emails that we sent in as many weeks. Each email consisted of 2 sentences complete with both spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.
We were informed yesterday that 2 checks are on the way. One for the building loss and one for the personal property loss. Absolutely nothing about how much these checks were for or anything beyond that 2 checks were in the mail.
This is something I posted in another garage forum in regards to people sending me tools. I will gladly accept tool donations, please PM me for an address.
To anyone that does send me tools, I will indeed use and cherish them. It will help me to teach my son charity when we work together. I no longer can say “grandpa used this” but I can say “a total stranger gave this to me, and that is why we help people when we can”
.
We were informed yesterday that 2 checks are on the way. One for the building loss and one for the personal property loss. Absolutely nothing about how much these checks were for or anything beyond that 2 checks were in the mail.
This is something I posted in another garage forum in regards to people sending me tools. I will gladly accept tool donations, please PM me for an address.
To anyone that does send me tools, I will indeed use and cherish them. It will help me to teach my son charity when we work together. I no longer can say “grandpa used this” but I can say “a total stranger gave this to me, and that is why we help people when we can”
.
dirttracker18
Well-known member
Do not cash the checks if they are not a reasonable offer. By doing so you are basically saying that you accept the offer. This may or may not hold up in court but not worth the risk.
Good luck, I hope they make an adequate offer.
Good luck, I hope they make an adequate offer.
tdkkart
Well-known member
For the entire interaction with our insurance adjuster, we received three replies to three emails that we sent in as many weeks. Each email consisted of 2 sentences complete with both spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.
You have to remember that a fair number of insurance company agents and adjusters got their jobs because they had nowhere else to be and were gullible enough to answer the "you can make $50,000 this year" ads......spelling and language skills were most likely not on the list of qualifications.
AND, almost forgot,
One of my highschool coaches/teachers got booted/opted out of that profession for messing around with a freshmen girl. This was 25+ years ago. Had it happened today he would likely be in jail, and would for sure be on the *** offender list.
After leaving the teaching profession he went to work for a very prominent insurance company, where as recently as a couple years ago he was/is a vice president.
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csp
Well-known member
This is a prime example of the shortcomings of emails for things like this.
I like to hear a human voice that's willing to hear mine at the same time.
I like to hear a human voice that's willing to hear mine at the same time.
My garage burnt several years ago. The adjuster was a person I had worked with at the garage and he was fair and gave me information on what was and what was not covered.
The automotive parts I had were not covered. The 2 or 3 fire extinguishers in hte garage were covered when I convinced him that they were not for sale, but were for use in the garage. Then he told me all my tools were covered,but there would be depreciation. He just needed a list of all my tools. I sat down, and visualized where everthing was in hte garage, and drew a floor plan. As I drew the plan, I made a list based upon the location.
Then I went to hte garage and added to the list. The list was not limited to tools, but also shop supplies, the odd lumber left over from projects, car parts, stuff stored in the attic. Even if the insurance company did not pay for stuff, it was deductable from income as a loss. After making a list, I got the Sear's catalog and added more tools. Then I walked the aisles at the parts house, lumber yard and hardware store. AFter all that, I thought I listed everything. A year later I went to get a tool, and found I had forgottne a couple of things. I did sort through the burnt tools and am still using some burnt sockets and wrenches. Remember,you are being paid for the loss, not replacement of stuff.
The automotive parts I had were not covered. The 2 or 3 fire extinguishers in hte garage were covered when I convinced him that they were not for sale, but were for use in the garage. Then he told me all my tools were covered,but there would be depreciation. He just needed a list of all my tools. I sat down, and visualized where everthing was in hte garage, and drew a floor plan. As I drew the plan, I made a list based upon the location.
Then I went to hte garage and added to the list. The list was not limited to tools, but also shop supplies, the odd lumber left over from projects, car parts, stuff stored in the attic. Even if the insurance company did not pay for stuff, it was deductable from income as a loss. After making a list, I got the Sear's catalog and added more tools. Then I walked the aisles at the parts house, lumber yard and hardware store. AFter all that, I thought I listed everything. A year later I went to get a tool, and found I had forgottne a couple of things. I did sort through the burnt tools and am still using some burnt sockets and wrenches. Remember,you are being paid for the loss, not replacement of stuff.
ptschram
Well-known member
This may or may not be the case. It is not uncommon for "Supplemental payments" to be made after the fact after undiscovered damage is found.
It is very common for property loss claims to be handled this way. Some insurance companies will issue a preliminary check to allow the insured to begin replacing property and the final settlement will be made later. That said, the check may have verbiage that states it's the final settlement.
FJ45Cruiser
Well-known member
This is true. We had a loss in our house when our sewer backed up into the finished basement. The adjuster came out and estimated and gave us a check. Since I had finished the basement originally I asked if I could put a little sweat equity so we wouldn't have to pay the deductable out of pocket. He said he didn't care who did the work. I later called him to tell him some repairs weren't included in his original estimate. He cut us another check.
I'm sorry for your loss. I hope the insurance company makes it right.
djd99
Well-known member
A little late for sure but still am very sorry you and your family had to go through this. I wouldn't wish a fire even on my worst enemy. Keep your spirits up, at least now you have the opportunity to do over the small things you would of liked to done the first time.
Don
Don
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
Today I received some crappy news from the insurance co. Aside from some huge mistakes on the replacements on the itemized list; they want to give me 50% of the loss as a cash payout. Then if I spend more than that amount they may (at there desecration) make an additional payout!
I have been unemployed for 21 months, how the F$%& am I going to spend more than what they send me?
I am not happy right now.
I paid extra for FULL REPLACEMENT COST and I expect to be able to replace my ****.
I have been unemployed for 21 months, how the F$%& am I going to spend more than what they send me?
I am not happy right now.
I paid extra for FULL REPLACEMENT COST and I expect to be able to replace my ****.
That's their first, and lowest, offer. Definitely do not accept it.
If you're not using a lawyer, you should consider it.
If you're not using a lawyer, you should consider it.
emeraldcoupe
Well-known member
that *****. who is your insurance carrier?
tdkkart
Well-known member
Your next 2 contacts need to be the state insurance commision and your attorney. Only AFTER you have contacted them should you contact your insurance company and calmly explain to them that the next correspondence regarding your claim will come from the above agencies.
I don't suppose you're ready just yet to reveal who your insurance company is??
OP
fflintstone
Well-known member
no not at this time, after itis all said and done I will tell ALL.
FoMoCoPower
Well-known member
About a year ago exactly: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56366&highlight=fire
I know exactly what your going through. The thought of the insurance company showing up on a white horse to rescue you is quite the myth. The insurance company's are there to protect their own interests, not yours.
About 5 years ago, I had a drunk driver crash into the front of my home. Driver was insured.
I was thinking, Ok, no big deal. This should go pretty smoothly.
Wrong, the adjuster just wanted to pay for the cosmetic damage to the house and not deal with any of the structural damage that was caused. He too offered me a low ball cash settlement. (The actual repair cost 3x the original offer.)
Well after fighting with the adjusters for 5 months and having to get a certified letter from the Town Inspector stating that if the structural damage was not corrected. The house would then be condemned The adjuster and insurance company finally decided to correct the damage.
I should also mention, that the policy has an addendum stating that if their was ever any damage to the house. It would need to brought up to current building code.
All I can say is stick to your gun's and be firm with them. You will eventually get what you deserve. However don't expect them to give it up so easily.
About 5 years ago, I had a drunk driver crash into the front of my home. Driver was insured.
I was thinking, Ok, no big deal. This should go pretty smoothly.
Wrong, the adjuster just wanted to pay for the cosmetic damage to the house and not deal with any of the structural damage that was caused. He too offered me a low ball cash settlement. (The actual repair cost 3x the original offer.)
Well after fighting with the adjusters for 5 months and having to get a certified letter from the Town Inspector stating that if the structural damage was not corrected. The house would then be condemned The adjuster and insurance company finally decided to correct the damage.
I should also mention, that the policy has an addendum stating that if their was ever any damage to the house. It would need to brought up to current building code.
All I can say is stick to your gun's and be firm with them. You will eventually get what you deserve. However don't expect them to give it up so easily.
FJ45Cruiser
Well-known member
I audit insurance companies for the residual market (assigned risk auto). Companies don't like the insurance comissioner on their tail. All complaints must be logged and need to be followed up to ensure a proper and timely resolution. Just the threat of calling might help a little with the insurance company.
ptschram
Well-known member
Be careful with this statement as it could be used by the insurance company as a reason to think it was intentional. I'm in the middle of a situation that yesterday became a fraud investigation and as the repair shop hired to fix the vehicle, I'm being interrogated about things my client said to me.
When my wife was an insurance adjuster, this was the worst thing she could have to deal with . In Indiana (the only state I can speak of directly) a formal complaint requires many people with the insurance company to become involved regardless of the merit of the complaint. The contact person who caused the complaint to be made will come under close scrutiny and all responses have to be in writing, become part of a public record and are viewable by the complaining party.
It is a serious threat, the only worse thing to say is to make an accusation of less than good faith, that gets folk's attention in a BIG way.
Most policies that have replacement cost will pay that when you replace them. I too went through this a few years back and some of the things I didn't want to replace I did so anyway. One item in particular they were going to give me $75 for the depreciated value but ended up cutting a check for the entire replacement cost which was well north of $500, I can't remember exactly which one that was. Another was the drill press. I could have gotten by with a smaller one but again the cash payout was about $50 or nearly $400 to replace what I had, I got the $400 drill press.
If you look I would think your policy will state ACV, actual Cash Value OR replacement cost. You have to replace the item to get that.
If you look I would think your policy will state ACV, actual Cash Value OR replacement cost. You have to replace the item to get that.
nehog
Well-known member
Also realize that many states have a penalty law that requires the insurance company to pay (sometimes 3x) damages when they fail to properly settle a claim. You may want to check into this--I have heard of cases where the judge took the claim amount, tripled it, and told the insurance to either pay up, or he'd take it by force.
I'd give them ONE chance: tell them unless you get 100% of what is due to you, immediately, you will not only contact the state's insurance regulators, but also hire an attorney to represent you, and that they'll be paying for that attorney...
You have no reason to negotiate a settlement for less than what is due to you.
I'd give them ONE chance: tell them unless you get 100% of what is due to you, immediately, you will not only contact the state's insurance regulators, but also hire an attorney to represent you, and that they'll be paying for that attorney...
You have no reason to negotiate a settlement for less than what is due to you.
tdkkart
Well-known member
The 50% payout is sort of standard procedure, and is not the part that bothers me. They typically pay a depreciated amount(cash value) on each item until you replace the item, then pay the remainder.
The part that bothers me is the "at their discretion" comment, which seems to mean they'll decide later how much they'll pay on each item.
In the case of my 2009 tornado damage, I initially received a check for the depreciated value(cash value) of each item, along with an itemized list of the exact $$$ amounts I would recieve when each item was replaced.
I suppose there is some discretion to be had, obviously they're not going to replace a burnt Honda with a new Harley.
Guess I never thought about being in a cash strapped position that wouldn't allow you to temporarily make up a 50% shortfall. That would ****.
The part that bothers me is the "at their discretion" comment, which seems to mean they'll decide later how much they'll pay on each item.
In the case of my 2009 tornado damage, I initially received a check for the depreciated value(cash value) of each item, along with an itemized list of the exact $$$ amounts I would recieve when each item was replaced.
I suppose there is some discretion to be had, obviously they're not going to replace a burnt Honda with a new Harley.
Guess I never thought about being in a cash strapped position that wouldn't allow you to temporarily make up a 50% shortfall. That would ****.
digdug18
Well-known member
Any news?
FJ45Cruiser
Well-known member
How are you making out?
If cash to replace items is not available, this might be a really good use of consumer credit, or tool truck credit. Normally, I'm against both, but if this allows you to get the replacement value reimbursement back from the insurer, (and quickly pay back any credit cards or truck credit), it's not a bad use.
Another way to look at it is this:
Let's say you need to replace a $100 Snap-on ratchet. You buy the ratchet, and get paid by your insurer. Then turn around and sell this ratchet on eBay, and get $60. That $60 will enable you to buy a well used ratchet, (in similar condition to the one you lost,) for $40. Better yet, is if you sell ALL your new tools, but wait to buy any replacements untill they are all sold, then instead of buying individual used items, you can purchase an entire used collection of tools....then that $100 ratchet becomes $25. This will all take a whole lot of effort, but would get you back to where you were, maybe better.
Another way to look at it is this:
Let's say you need to replace a $100 Snap-on ratchet. You buy the ratchet, and get paid by your insurer. Then turn around and sell this ratchet on eBay, and get $60. That $60 will enable you to buy a well used ratchet, (in similar condition to the one you lost,) for $40. Better yet, is if you sell ALL your new tools, but wait to buy any replacements untill they are all sold, then instead of buying individual used items, you can purchase an entire used collection of tools....then that $100 ratchet becomes $25. This will all take a whole lot of effort, but would get you back to where you were, maybe better.
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