I know this is improper... generator hookup.

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

My late grandfather used to hook up the generator at their house... my mom now lives in this house. I removed the generator cable he had ran through to outside and remembered how he used to hook it up. He would turn off the main and unhook the wires from the stove breaker and hook in the generator cord, which I assume back fed the breaker panel and provided power to the house. My question is, did they do this back in the day and does it sound plausible? He may have hooked it right into the mains (backfeeding eventually, which is a big no no, I know), but to my knowledge it was the former, but the latter. The panel needs replacing and I've set it up to just run essentials off heavy duty extension cords for when power goes out. Eventually a new panel and breaker box will go in.

 

[Noltz]

Plausible, yes. You're right that he "back-fed" the panel through the stove breaker, which is what I do with an interlock setup (I cannot physically have my "back-feed" breaker and my main breaker turned on at the same time). It's legal with the correct wiring, connections and safety devices in place. I don't thing grandad bothered with those and just made do with what he had.

There are Generator Ready panels you might want to consider when you're ready to replace the panel. There's also simple through-the-wall Generator power points. They allow you to hook a 30A cord to the outside of the house and have a stand-alone 6 plug outlet on the inside. You can run extension cords from there, and not have to leave a window or door open.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

get an inter-lock...

 

[nadogail]

What was allowed in my Grandfather's days, even though it worked, is no longer allowed today. The reasons are good, if we did things today like my Grandfather did; women would not be allowed to vote.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

women would be dead when they go to vacuum as well (non-polarized 2 prong plug, plugged in backwards)

 

[NickH]

When I was single I hardly ever used the generator, but when I did I went the ghetto dryer back-feed route... When the power goes out for extended periods, chances are that I'm not going to be home anyway... Now with the family I wanted a setup that anyone... the wife, neighbor, whoever could get the generator up and running safely and easily.

In our old house I put in this 10-circuit transfer switch box: Reliance Transfer Switch . The kit includes the 30a outdoor twist-lock plug and allowed me to run 6 120v circuits plus the well pump and water heater. In this house we had the same set up (8 circuit instead of 10 circuit) from the existing owner.

When I upgraded the panel as part of our garage build I went with the interlock panel: Panel Interlock Kit. Depending on the existing panel, you may be able to just add one of these retrofit kits. If you need to upgrade the panel anyway, get the interlock and you'll be good to go.

Both setups are inexpensive and ensure anyone can operate them with minimal training. Of the two, I like the interlock panel so much better. It allows you to choose what you want to run on backup power, where the external transfer box requires you plan that in advance. Both solutions are much less expensive than the automatic standby generator setup...

 

[P0234]

The concept of back feeding 20-25 years ago was very frowned upon when I got my first generator. There were expensive transfer switches or these mini transfer panels that powered a half dozen circuits.

I’d say about 10 or 15 years ago, interlock adapters for home panels became common and all of a sudden back feeding was A-ok. The interlocks are way cheaper and much more flexible.

 

[tyme2par4]

Here in NH this issue was just in the news. Henri brought some decent wind to the coast and knocked out power to a few thousand people. Crews were informed to move onto other areas when they discovered a live line that was being backfed from a generator. So that neighborhood had to go without power for an extra 12 hours because someone didn't follow the code.

 

[P0234]

Here in NH this issue was just in the news. Henri brought some decent wind to the coast and knocked out power to a few thousand people. Crews were informed to move onto other areas when they discovered a live line that was being backfed from a generator. So that neighborhood had to go without power for an extra 12 hours because someone didn't follow the code.

And in 2020's fashion, lets punish everyone instead of the person responsible.

 

[quickfarms]

Here in NH this issue was just in the news. Henri brought some decent wind to the coast and knocked out power to a few thousand people. Crews were informed to move onto other areas when they discovered a live line that was being backfed from a generator. So that neighborhood had to go without power for an extra 12 hours because someone didn't follow the code.

Please provide the citation for this code?

 

[Lassen Forge]

I don't need a citation, but I'm surprised that his generator survived that... unless he had a huge whole house generator, I would think that it pulled down so hard it would brown out the house or cook the generator. Even then... that's a lot of potential amperage of draw...

Biggest issue is when it's backfeeding the house, hits the transformer, and all of the sudden you have huge voltage feeding the formerly dead lines... and the guy splicing that line, thinking it's dead, grabs it... They need to find the culprit and get that house segregated before they can get back to fixing the lines. It's not a case of "Waah, punish everyone," it's a case of "Gee, let's not electrocute the poor lineman fixing the problem".

 

[P0234]

I don't need a citation, but I'm surprised that his generator survived that... unless he had a huge whole house generator, I would think that it pulled down so hard it would brown out the house or cook the generator. Even then... that's a lot of potential amperage of draw...

Biggest issue is when it's backfeeding the house, hits the transformer, and all of the sudden you have huge voltage feeding the formerly dead lines... and the guy splicing that line, thinking it's dead, grabs it... They need to find the culprit and get that house segregated before they can get back to fixing the lines. It's not a case of "Waah, punish everyone," it's a case of "Gee, let's not electrocute the poor lineman fixing the problem".

Linemen assume there is a generator running and check the lines. No one is going and grabbing lines. Find the a-hole backfeeding and then fine the piss out of them. But we can't seem to do that anymore. The guy might be running his meth lab and be high and not know, lets feel sorry for him. He grew up in a rough neighborhood..... wahhhh...

 

[KenC]

Please provide the citation for this code?

Just read article 702 of the NEC

 

[quickfarms]

Just read article 702 of the NEC

702 pertains to transfer switches switching the neutral

Based on this the interlock would then also be prohibited

CA 119075 only requires the main breaker to be turned off

 

[CJ7VFR]

...The guy might be running his meth lab and be high and not know, lets feel sorry for him. He grew up in a rough neighborhood..... wahhhh...

And because he was poor, he only ate Twinkies...so he will use the classic ******* defense...

Jim

 

[jeepxj]

I don't need a citation, but I'm surprised that his generator survived that... unless he had a huge whole house generator, I would think that it pulled down so hard it would brown out the house or cook the generator. Even then... that's a lot of potential amperage of draw...

Biggest issue is when it's backfeeding the house, hits the transformer, and all of the sudden you have huge voltage feeding the formerly dead lines... and the guy splicing that line, thinking it's dead, grabs it... They need to find the culprit and get that house segregated before they can get back to fixing the lines. It's not a case of "Waah, punish everyone," it's a case of "Gee, let's not electrocute the poor lineman fixing the problem".

lineman ground out lines around their work area. and check for live. before going hands on without gloves/protection. unless the lineman is not following the policy they are safe.

I am not advocating for backfeeding without an interlock but let's not pretend that lineman just wander up and go hands on blindly.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I don't need a citation, but I'm surprised that his generator survived that... unless he had a huge whole house generator, I would think that it pulled down so hard it would brown out the house or cook the generator. Even then... that's a lot of potential amperage of draw...

Biggest issue is when it's backfeeding the house, hits the transformer, and all of the sudden you have huge voltage feeding the formerly dead lines... and the guy splicing that line, thinking it's dead, grabs it... They need to find the culprit and get that house segregated before they can get back to fixing the lines. It's not a case of "Waah, punish everyone," it's a case of "Gee, let's not electrocute the poor lineman fixing the problem".

yeah he grabs it with his gloved hands... friend of mine is a line crew supervisor and sometimes i watch him on the job if im out and about. they all wear gloves when touching any lines, even the ones that are grounded out. its called good habit

 

[Sumboodie]

Please provide the citation for this code?

Electrical code

 

[Lassen Forge]

lineman ground out lines around their work area. and check for live. before going hands on without gloves/protection. unless the lineman is not following the policy they are safe.

I am not advocating for backfeeding without an interlock but let's not pretend that lineman just wander up and go hands on blindly.

I'm sure they don't !! I'm not sure if this is correct, but... (with my limited knowledge of transformers) the cans on the pole take whatever the voltage coming off the mains and reduces it to household (220) volts... IIRC an AC transformer will work both ways (like a car coil), so if you feed 110 back into the low side of that transformer, wouldn't it then kick up the voltage to half the mains voltage and put that back through the lines?

I remember the electricians (when I worked bridges) had to use 20kV rated gloves in case something backfed the wrong way, an isolation switch failed, etc... I also remember watching a Muni (S.F.) electrician shunt off the bus system catenary before we could work near it, and was warned even WHEN it was allegedly "dead" not to get near i because if it backfed it would definitely remove us from our mortal coil... the "AHA" moment was when their sub radioed him the line was, indeed, dead, so he wen to hook up the shunt, "Wham"...

 

[jeepxj]

I'm sure they don't !! I'm not sure if this is correct, but... (with my limited knowledge of transformers) the cans on the pole take whatever the voltage coming off the mains and reduces it to household (220) volts... IIRC an AC transformer will work both ways (like a car coil), so if you feed 110 back into the low side of that transformer, wouldn't it then kick up the voltage to half the mains voltage and put that back through the lines?

I remember the electricians (when I worked bridges) had to use 20kV rated gloves in case something backfed the wrong way, an isolation switch failed, etc... I also remember watching a Muni (S.F.) electrician shunt off the bus system catenary before we could work near it, and was warned even WHEN it was allegedly "dead" not to get near i because if it backfed it would definitely remove us from our mortal coil... the "AHA" moment was when their sub radioed him the line was, indeed, dead, so he wen to hook up the shunt, "Wham"...

generally speaking yes.

but if that HV line is grounded out the demand will go up dramatically for the generator causing it to trip it's breaker/melt something. Also if the string is isolated and there are neighbors still on that section the poor generator will try to power up all those houses. and most likely fail at doing so.

in a perfect situation of the transformer you are backfeeding not having a grounded out situation on the lines AND not trying to power the neighbors in theory you could have a string energized to the HV voltage potential without enough demand on the generator to trip it. that is the bad situation for the lineman. now if that situation occurs AND the lineman doesnt do his proper grounding/isolation/checks then you have a dead lineman.


I cannot stress this enough; use a proper transfer switch or interlock. while rare i couldn't live with myself for killing a lineman like that.

 

[MickeyD]

When we had the big freeze in February down here in Texas (two degrees) we had no power for about five days. I had brought the welder (Hobart 11KW) back from the ranch and wired two 50 amp male welder plugs (a buddy of mine christened it the "Danger Plug") together to tie the welder to the house. Before I hooked it in I did lock out the main disconnect to prevent any surprises. We were able to keep the heat, lights, and even the microwave on and got lucky with a gas range. Only time the generator grumbled was when one of the kids started doing laundry with the electric dryer. Unlike most of our neighbors we had no broken pipes and stayed comfortable, but I did go through about 70 gallons of gas but it was well worth it. Funny thing was is we never lost internet and my wife was able to work through most of it. We are getting an electrician in to install a proper interlock but sometimes you have to get crafty to keep the family warm.

 

[Skooterj]

So, I'm gonna tell my crazy generator story. I used to live in a small town which had its own electrical supervisor that I knew pretty well. I also used to work for a neighboring town reading meters and doing disconnects, so I knew how to pull a meter safely. The town I lived in never cared about putting locks on the meters. Anyway, we had a horrible storm come through. Supposedly NOT a tornado, 130 MPH straight line winds. Broke 4 of my trees off, 1 brushed the house and got me a new roof and siding, another demolished my wives car and my garage. It also destroyed the towns electrical grid. Wires down everywhere, poles snapped, millions in damages. They called in line crews from multiple states to get the town fixed. It still took weeks to fix everything, but they got everyone's power on in about 5 days. I was able to borrow a friends generator, but my old house was built in 1900 and the wiring was probably from the 20's. I had no easy way of hooking up a generator. All I wanted was lights and my ceiling fans to work, because it was hot and I needed some sleep around dealing with the clean up. So I pulled the meter and hooked the generator directly up the the meter base house side. Defiantly not safe, but quick and easy. Anyway, a few days later, I had just taken a shower after doing more clean up and was laying naked on my bed under the fan when my wife yelled that they were here to hook our power back up. I have never gotten dressed so fast. I ran down stairs to hopefully get my totally illegal work out of the way before any of the crew saw it and reported me to whoever, or would just move on to the next house. So I run out there, barefoot, in shorts and turn the generator off. One of the linemen walks up as I am unhooking the leads from the meter base and I start apologizing, saying I know this isn't the correct way to hook up a generator, but it was quick. He looked at me and laughed. He said when you don't have power for 5 days, you do what you have to do and that they would have made sure everything was safe before hooking me back up. Found out that I was the last house in town to get power because I was the only service on my line and hooking me back up only fixed one house, not multiple houses. So, while I defiantly recommend you get your generator hooked up safely, the line guys have seen it all.