Icon G2 Ratchets vs Snap On
- Thread starter milky2k
- Start date
I have probably two dozen different Snap On and Ko-ken ratchets... but the Icon G2 1/4" locking flex head is still one of my favorite ratchets.
It's not like SO tools are infallible either, I've warrantied plenty of them. And sometimes their designs are flops as well (Cynergy, I'm talking to you...)
SO isn't the best, HF isn't the worst, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
It's not like SO tools are infallible either, I've warrantied plenty of them. And sometimes their designs are flops as well (Cynergy, I'm talking to you...)
SO isn't the best, HF isn't the worst, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
When a dead horse is nothing but a pile of guts and bone, it’s no longer fun to beat.
There’s always another fresh kill lying around somewhere..
I Wouldn’t know.
Haven’t really been poor in many decades.. The last time I purchased snap on, ironically( although I don’t blame them)
I barely survived basic math and 9th grade economic, but if you buy a $139 click torque wrench, vs a nearly identical $339 model, doesn’t that leaves $200 in the bank?
Heading over to my local HF shortly to pick up some SAE impact sockets for upcoming Bobcat work. They are on sale today, 35% off. I'll look at ratchets while I'm there. I don't like locking flex heads. I'm kinda particular about flex heads. I like how Snap on does it. But I'll look and keep an open mind.Tried Icon G2 when they first came out. Local HF had them on tethers to play with. All three drive sizes felt and sounded like they had rocks in the gears. Made the decision easy...
I DO think some of the Icon prices are getting close to used Snap on prices tho. I hope GJ members keep track. The T72 is a pretty tough little ratchet. I can usually find them for around $50 incl shipping., sometimes a little less.
A set of Icon wrenches at full price I think are around $169? I've paid about that for Snap on on eBay in the past. Maybe prices have gone way up. Point is, I wouldn't assume. I'd verify what the choices are. Not sure where Koken is price wise.
I guess my point is, I assume:
- Because it's HF, quality is terrible. That's not as true as it once was.
- Because it's HF, tools will be the cheapest on the market by a long margin. That's also not as true as it once was.
mngundog
Well-known member
That's the price of their ratcheting wrench set. I think it's odd to be comparing HF at full price (when they are always on sale), vs SO garage sale pricing. The SO wrench set (13 piece) retail is $612 vs the general selling price of the Icon wrenches (14 piece) $84 on sale.
My snapon ratchets are a little nicer than my Icon ratchets but they both take bolts off the same. I think the “winner” is the guy who get the most work done, regardless of what brand tools they use. Calling people “poor” is just tacky and classless.
Right. Snapon prices are always much higher when comparing like for like. In fact, a higher resale value is an advantage I’ve often heard touted.
Right. Snapon prices are always much higher when comparing like for like. In fact, a higher resale value is an advantage I’ve often heard touted.
I’ve got a whole drawer full of Snap On ratchets, and I’ve never paid more than what a new ICON ratchet costs, and usually quite a bit less.
Used Snap On is an absolutely relevant comparison to new ICON. I know which one I choose.
Yeah… I’ve only got a couple of the 36t ratchets left, both in 1/2. They aren’t as fancy as the newer Dual 80s, but they sure are smooth. I wouldn’t buy one new… but I still like em and I wouldn’t trade them for an ICON or any other import ratchet.My Icon ratchets are way nicer than my only Snap On, but then it's literally 50 years old. I don't even pick it up any more
That’s a me issue… and I don’t begrudge anyone for buying what they like.
You get my point right? There’s sense that Icon is almost as good (or arguably in some cases as good) as Snap on for a small fraction of the Snap on price. But as HF prices rise, they can start to rival top tier tools’ used prices.
GJ members just need to be aware of what their alternatives are. Example: I can buy a really nice Snap on tool box for the price of an Icon box. I’d wager the Snap on box is a better box and a better value as it will hold its value etc etc. But some (many?) might be put off by a used box, the hassle of picking it up etc etc. All fair.
Ratchets on the other hand, are readily available second hand and can be quickly, easily and inexpensively restored to new functionality. We plunk down money and get a ratchet. You can drive to a store and plunk down your money, or maybe a very similar amount of money plus maybe a bit more effort can get you a really nice tool.
BTW just back from HF. Bought Icon SAE impact sockets 35% off. Left with a bunch of other **** like I always do. Played with the 1/4” gen2 ratchets. Honestly, they felt like hot garbage to me. There was no cable locked display model. I just pulled one off the shelf. They had a lot of play in the anvil, like too much space between the face plate and the gear. And they absolutely did not have that Swiss watch sound and feel all my T72s have. Before you start sending hate letters:
1) I’m not 100% sure about the play. I don’t make it a habit of carrying a T72 around in my pocket for comparison. Only reason I’m talking about it is I think this is an attribute of a great ratchet that I don’t hear much discussed. And it’s not connoisseurship. It has a utility I won’t go into.
2) I suspect ratchet gears wear and wear faster than maybe we think. Mine are beautifully smooth with a fine (seriously) mechanical watch like click. I’m thinking it’s unfair to compare new ratchets with old or even new ratchets to new to assess back drag. Guessing they are designed to wear in. Pretty sure I’ve rebuilt every ratchet I own, but I don’t always replace parts. Sometimes it’s just a clean which might help explain the fine click and feel.
This said, maybe used ratchets are an even smarter buy than I suggested earlier. I was planning on buying an icon 1/4” root and probably still will as I have nothing of the sort at present. But before I spend $40 + tax + 30minute drive one way, I’m going to see what I can find on eBay.
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1Bad55Chevy
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When I grab a ratchet 95% of the time it says m12 on the side. I honestly don't understand why people here have such large ratchet drawers.
Excessive movement of the anvil relative to the faceplate is big deal. Think about what's happening in the head of a ratchet with excessive moment, it means the gears on the anvil and the pawl aren't meshing evenly and will eventually wear unevenly and induce potential skipping of the teeth since you don't have full gear engagement. I check that in every ratchet I purchase, new or used, and it's a dealbreaker if I deem it excessive.
Because we can...
I have a cordless ratchet and rarely use it. I’m not making a living doing this, and I’m not in a hurry.
I’m in a hurry but I don’t like damaging fasteners and while it may be completely delusional, I have no feel with power tools and therefore don’t trust them.
What part, what screw, on my vehicles is unimportant? Worth risking to save 30 seconds? Answer is none of them. So I do almost everything by hand.
My brother was kind of a jerk to me most of my life as big brothers can be. My fondest memories of him were the many times we worked together. Whether it was cars or carpentry he had a saying. He’d say “how’s it have to be?” The unspoken answer was “it has to be perfect” and if it wasn’t perfect we’d do it over.
Not at all implying @1Bad55Chevy is a sloppy mechanic. He may have so much experience and finesse he can operate cordless tools like a Jedi. I’m just not there.
When I’m working, I’m using all my senses. I’m getting tactile feedback from the tool about the status of the threads, I’m listening, even smelling for leaks, that weird rust smell when a fastener breaks free. I guess I’m doing my best to do exactly what my brother asked for.
You may have missed the part where I said “comparing like for like”. Anyways, happy to hear you like your ratchets
That's a nonsensical comparison, akin to comparing a new Hyundai to a new Lexus. Of course the Hyundai is going to offer more value, with the majority of the the utility and function of the higher priced version. Flip that comparison to a new Hyundai in relation to a lightly used, low mileage Lexus, and the script is completely changed.
If your budget allows a new Hyundai, you can find a used Lexus.
Edit; For some folks, the warranty for the new tool is important. For others, not so much. Some have no desire to chase deals and used tools … and cars… while some don’t mind the extra work. Everyone is built different.
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I’ll take your word for it. Enjoy your Sunday.
1Bad55Chevy
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How much movement is considered excessive? How do you measure this in a store when ratchets are in some sort of package?
How many ratchet cycles will wear the teeth to a point of skipping? We talking hundreds, thousands, millions?
Has there been any testing that compares between brands on how many ratchet cycles before the gears are worn out? If we are talking a few hundred I would want the parts available under warranty to rebuild the ratchet, if we are talking thousands of uses i would rather have the wrench replaced with something shiny and new.
I do think thats a major plus of icon over the tool trucks. If I mess up a single screwdriver I get a new set, if I mess up a SO screwdriver I get a new bit in a worn out handle. Same with wrenches and sockets.
Kurt4440
Well-known member
There is a learning curve to safely and efficevtivly use power tools, especially impact wrenches. However, time marches on and we adapt to new tools.
Yesterday I did some woodworking with my daughter, we used the following tools: table saw, miter saw, circular saw, router, random orbital sanders, cordless drill, cordless screw gun, and an impact driver. I have fond memories of using a hand saw and a miter box as a child working with my father, but, time marches on.
I use my M12 ratchet, but not as often as I use my regular ratchets. (I also got the Insider recently, but haven't had a chance to use it yet). I can't really explain why.
That's only really true if you're talking a Genesis (a Hyundai division) to a Lexus. From what I've heard, Genesis is doing a pretty good job, though to make your analogy accurate A new Genesis would need to cost half or less than the Lexus.
For the real-life premium, I'd probably buy the Lexus. Adjusted for the Icon--->SO premium, the Genesis would be a no-brainer.
True.
Good points and I don't know any of the answers.
Yeah, right, no, not that I know of. And just to be grumpy for a moment, play or slop in the head for lack of a better term, has never been a criteria examined by any YouTube comparison guys I've seen. I think they have no idea what they are doing besides creating content to make themselves money. They don't know the first thing about working with ratchets. They buy or get sent tools, open the packaging, and do their trumped up meaningless strength tests. Then we argue about them. What a waste of time.
One could spend a bit more time with a tool, use it for a while, then decide how you want to rate it. I personally like a nice solid drive line from the ratchet to the socket with every joint fairly stiff with as little play as practical. That' important to me.
I've said this before and its probably worth repeating and getting back on topic:
- I like Icon specifically because they are copies of Snap on's designs, which are excellent. I like the proportions, shapes, and Icon is copying all the right tools. Saw a copy of the TL72. It's Snap ons long chrome 1/4" ratchet. That's a very nice tool to have. I don't own one. I have a TLL72, which I don't use often but has come in handy. If its not an every day/all day sort of tool, maybe the Icon is absolutely good enough.
- @Hakeem says he has both SO and G2 Icon and they both turn bolts. That's one consideration. Strength is another. Head wobble is a third. How they feel broken in is a pretty darned important 4th. How the anvil feels, spring pressure on the ball, size/tolerance of the anvil. How does the reversing lever feel? I guess my point is, we haven't even scratched the surface of comparing ratchets. We respond to the drivel made by greedy men in their basements with their GoPros.
I had a low mileage one as a rental last year. The interior quality and fit and finish reminded me of the 90s. There was something annoying about the way it drove but I can't remember what that was. I rent a lot of cars for business; usually reserving a "luxury" car, which typically gets me something nice, but that one time I got a Genesis.
Next time I'll just tell them to give me the Camry at the Camry rate and they can keep their "Genesis".
It's funny - it's a factor I've thought about and put into a quick/smaller version of a video I did a couple years ago (skip to 3:20 for the 'slop' bit) I wanted to do a much larger version of before my life got flipped by a series of events starting soon after (and the hits keep on coming, but I digress...). I might finally get around to it this summer.
The problem for "real" content creators (vs. a guy like me with a tiny channel just sharing my perspective with zero revenue/profit expectation and no likelihood of ever having any) is something like slop can be considered subjective. You can definitely tell the difference in slop between the Ko-ken, Icon and Snap-On there, but I'm not sure how you measure it. And then there's elements like sample variation, repeatability, broken-in vs. new (for both the ratchets and the sockets, etc. - those are all really hard to solve for, so they do what they can. I agree that the test-to-fail thing only tells you a fraction of the story.
I also haven't gotten around to doing a mix-and-match comparison - e.g. are the Ko-ken sockets less sloppy on the Icon ratchet than the Icon sockets are?
Lastly, I'm not sure what value less slop has other than to tell you how tight the tolerances are for whoever is making the ratchets/sockets. I seem to recall that Ko-ken makes some kind of claims around its Z-series products being made to be better together (in so many words), but I'm pretty sure they didn't make a performance claim around it. It seemed more of a statement about their attention to detail.
1Bad55Chevy
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CHI_Tool&Die
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There’s a dude on YouTube with the handle Lone Star Mopars and he obsessively goes over everything when it comes to ratchets and sockets. He will put ten different brands on a ratchet just to show you which ones have excessive play or fit perfectly. He focuses a lot on little things like that. He mainly focuses on German, Japanese, and MAC tools. Seems like a good dude and I’ve been subscribed to his channel forever. I think he works in a machine shop but he never gets into his work specifics.
Now that HF launched their individual order guides, I wonder how that will impact sales. A lot of guys won’t buy HF just because of the inability to replace individual tools when lost or stolen. Since it became an option, I think more dudes will head to HF.
I wonder if you could go to McMaster and order a couple shim washers, like 2, 3, 5 thou and put them inside the g2 ratchets (or any ratchets) to remove some of the play.
My worry with Chiwan manufacturers remains “quality fade”. So the first batch of g2 ratchets could be the best they will ever be. Early adopters buy them, write glowing reviews, and each subsequent batch gets worse until HF calls uncle and switches suppliers or comes out with a gen3 100 tooth. Not sure about HF, but other importers use returns as the indicator of quality fade.
Point is, a ratchet is a simple machine and we should be able to improve it. @CHI_Tool&Die, what did you think of my idea of polishing the gear teeth? Is there any machine shop trick to that besides Gesswein files? I thought there was some sort of conformal abrasive rubber. Not that polishing gear teeth would do much.
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DAWrench
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Don't know about the Gen 2 Icon ratchets but the Gen 1 ratchets had a wave washer between the cover plate and the anvil. It was in some of them and was left out of some. Don't know if it was by design or a quality control problem during the assembly process.
Sounds like quality fade. Quality fade is insidious. US manufacturers tend to do the opposite. Generally things get better during manufacturing. We increase quality over time.
Its not a deal breaker. But its the opposite of what we usually would do (i.e. don't buy the first model year of a new car). In HF, you are probably smart to buy the latest products that get good reviews.
badmatt
Well-known member
We don’t have harbour freight up here..
So Snap-on > HF
And even if we did it wouldn’t change my vote.
So Snap-on > HF
And even if we did it wouldn’t change my vote.
They have never once, stated that they were, probably because they don't care to, since there is no point in doing so.
They do state that they sell a particular product, that has similar features/functions to Snap On (Honda, Dewalt etc.) at a substantially lower, which is absolutely true.
It it happens to look the same, really - from a marketing standpoint, why not? Going out of their way to purposely make it looks different, makes zero sense, IMO.
What does that washer do, that not having it would be a detriment to the product function/quality? Just curious.
ya know, for the 2 minutes I messed with one in the store, I thought the anvil felt kinda sloppy. That was my quick take. So I was just speculating that if that was indeed the case, for this ratchet or any other, it might be fixable. Turns out earlier models had washers? Then they disappeared? I assume that washer had a purpose.What does that washer do, that not having it would be a detriment to the product function/quality? Just curious.
The detriment to functionality includes potential meshing problems between the gear and the pawl that could weaken the tool or shorten its life, as mentioned by @CoThG earlier. The other detriment is just trying to get a tool like this seated where you are directing it only by the ratchet handle. If I want wobble, I'll add a wobble. When I don't want wobble, I'd prefer very little wobble. Make sense?
1Bad55Chevy
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Remember nobody here has any experience working as a tool designer for any company. Nobody here has any experience assembling tools at a factory. Nobody here has taken apart thousands of ratchets to measure all the parts out to truly figure out the actual standard deviation. Everything here is based on assumptions.What does that washer do, that not having it would be a detriment to the product function/quality? Just curious.
The one thing I do know for certain in this life is you cant meet your heros because they will let you down. Whatever brand you support would be a massive let down to work there. The quality you think your delivering wouldn't actually be whats going on.
Never have faith in humanity. Its 2026 Everyone is working for the weekend and nobody gives a **** about the products they put out.
KnurledNut
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Thats a pretty bold assumption with members like @teagueo here...