To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Icon G2 Ratchets vs Snap On

gatewaysysop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,285
Location
Arizona
Regardless of one's bias you can't ignore the results.

You don't need bias to readily ignore the results of junk science. :dunno:

There's no evidence that this YouTube "test" ranking would hold up in repetition, so it proves nothing one way or the other. If the first won't always be the first and the last won't always be the last, what's the point of buying into the results? It's junk methodology and non-repeatable, luck-of-the-draw outcomes. If the rankings cannot be reliably separated from the result of pure chance, then I'm not impressed or convinced (about either who's best or who's worst) nor should anyone else be. :headscrat
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

mreisner

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 25, 2019
Messages
898
Location
North of Detroit
What's the part number? Im curious as to the rebuild part number for you ratchet. If they shift all dual80s to that design that would be a big downgrade to me. IIRC the 72 in the part number of the rebuild kit means it's 3/8 in 1/4 body and all those ratchets using that kit show the underscored head anvil.

I agree the Matco style locking flex is probably the best design out there. Great move by Icon to use that.
I'll have to take a look when I get back in the shop usually when I replace a kit I put it back in the bag I got it from The Used Parts to give it back to my dealer but I know I have a new one in bag out there and I definitely agree that would be quite a downgrade. This was about a year ago when I bought one of those little ratchets that they have pre-made that everybody was making for the last few years 3/8 in a quarter
 

1Bad55Chevy

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 20, 2025
Messages
618
Unless the ICON truck shows up at your shop, I don't think the comparison you are trying to make is valid.
I own a small car dealership and work on cars there all day everyday. Snap-on rep told me he won't stop unless I have 3 techs until then I can meet him wherever he is at. He said the only other way he would come buy would be to deliver a tool box. I watch him drive by my dealership twice a week.. that mark up must be good if these drivers don't even care about getting new accounts. I have also watched Mac, Matco, and Cornwell drive by me everyday day for the past 8 years and never bother to stop in.. absolutely insane...

I buy HF because tool trucks are worthless.
 

zendriver

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 10, 2014
Messages
29,685
Location
Indiana
The fact of the matter is, there would be no ICON if there was no Snap-on to try and copy.

Right, pretty clever marketing on their part.
They can try all they want but it will never be the same tool.
They have never made that claim, because they likely don't even care.

When they "beat" something, it is a similar design and function item, at a lower price.
 

gatewaysysop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,285
Location
Arizona
I own a small car dealership and work on cars there all day everyday. Snap-on rep told me he won't stop unless I have 3 techs until then I can meet him wherever he is at. He said the only other way he would come buy would be to deliver a tool box. I watch him drive by my dealership twice a week.. that mark up must be good if these drivers don't even care about getting new accounts. I have also watched Mac, Matco, and Cornwell drive by me everyday day for the past 8 years and never bother to stop in.. absolutely insane...

Yup. Had the same experience as a home gamer trying to meet up with these clowns and spend hundreds of dollars in cash. Some folks in the tool truck business are just allergic to money. :dunno:
 

CHI_Tool&Die

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
Messages
1,378
Location
Chicago, IL
How many guys are walking into Harbor Freight with a $1200 iPhone in their pocket? I bet you there's a least one.
Every dude at my shop has stopped buying from the trucks and buy everything via HF or the big box stores. They all have $1000-$1600 phones. It’s crazy how social media has influenced tool purchases. Everyone thinks HF is the end all be all of tools and anything that else is just being fleeced.
 

Steve_P

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
5,181
Icon did very well. But, of course, they're also 10+ years late to the game and it's easy to copy various existing designs and tweak them to improve a bit. Which is what they've done. But yes, it's a solid choice.

As far as a 10% difference in anvil failure, this is statistically irrelevant. The reality is that you could buy the same steel type, from the same mill, monthly over one year, process it in the same facility, same equipment, same heat treat..... and easily get more than +/-10% if you did a statistical analysis on failure strength. And you could easily get a +/- 5% strength variance in the same batch of steel just due to heat treat variations. Variation in hardness produces variation in failure strength; and 5% isn't a lot of variation. These items are mass produced, and a bunch of small parts, like ratchet anvils, typically get thrown into a basket for heat treating. The parts at the outside of the basket will be harder, and stronger, than the parts at the center of the basket. Steel is produced to meet minimum standards. Sometimes it's much better. Sometimes it's a hair below the strength spec- I've rejected steel for critical designs at work due to independent tensile testing showing it's slightly below the minimum strength spec.

I'm not discounting that the Icon is a good ratchet, but just that a 10% difference in failure strength is irrelevant unless you test hundreds of products over hundreds of production runs over an extended time. And if you're using a 3/8 ratchet at even 200lbf-ft, you're well into where you should expect a failure as you're well into 1/2 drive territory.
 

rword

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2025
Messages
425
SO’s performance vs the g2 doesn’t warrant the price they charge for it. Point. Blank. Period.
 

WhataTool

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
463
You don't need bias to readily ignore the results of junk science. :dunno:

There's no evidence that this YouTube "test" ranking would hold up in repetition, so it proves nothing one way or the other.
According to you

I watched a vid where two icon ratchets made the same torque on an automated machine, had the same back drag force measured in in-oz, and same number of swings to complete 360° and then two snap-on ratchets did pretty much the same as well. These are all easily quantifiable and verifiable metrics if you wanted to do the same and prove wrong.

So until you do so to try and poke holes in actual data with.... anything of substance, you're just talking.
I understand we live in a very anti-reality I'ma substitute my own timeline though, so you do you
 

HomeTheaterMan

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
493
You guys do realize that most of the content from large channels in YouTube are just paid commercials right?

I don't work in the tool industry, but I do work in another industry and I've seen it first hand. Just because someone on YouTube says something is just as good, or better while being paid to say that, doesn't mean it is.
 

gatewaysysop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,285
Location
Arizona
According to you

No, not me, but according to mathematics and statistics and, dare I say it, common sense. :unsure:

It cannot be deemed repeatable when there's no evidence presented to support that claim. The onus to convince the viewer that the ranking is repeatable falls to the person performing the experiment. I am simply stating what should be (but clearly isn't) obvious enough: there's insufficient evidence to believe these results/rankings will hold up in repeated trials because (gasp!) we didn't have nearly enough trails to make any such judgment. No part of that is anti-reality, but it is anti-"YouTube pseudo-science" for which I make no apologies. ;)

I'm not discounting that the Icon is a good ratchet, but just that a 10% difference in failure strength is irrelevant unless you test hundreds of products over hundreds of production runs over an extended time. And if you're using a 3/8 ratchet at even 200lbf-ft, you're well into where you should expect a failure as you're well into 1/2 drive territory.

:+1:

Exactly this.
 

WhataTool

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2015
Messages
463
You guys do realize that most of the content from large channels in YouTube are just paid commercials right?

I don't work in the tool industry, but I do work in another industry and I've seen it first hand. Just because someone on YouTube says something is just as good, or better while being paid to say that, doesn't mean it is.
Not according to the channel descriptions or text in the video description saying the contrary, unless you have some info about channels like TTC and Project Farm taking money or free tools when saying they don't. It'd be salacious if you have info to the contrary
Besides i dont see a lot of "this person says" in the videos, the tests are all on screen and the results are in the order of those numbers

It cannot be deemed repeatable when there's no evidence presented to support that claim.
You don't agree with the sample size, that's okay.
But that's independent of repeatability or verifiability.

Saying an automated arm turning a tool on a digital torque transducer until it breaks is not a reasonable level to be considered repeatable for a wrench test is just old man yells at a cloud type stuff
 

gatewaysysop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,285
Location
Arizona
You don't agree with the sample size, that's okay.
But that's independent of repeatability or verifiability.

Actually no, they are both inexorably related to sample size. That's the point I'm trying to make.

Thought experiment, for anyone curious: Go find a coin and flip it exactly once. How sure are you that the result will repeat itself the very next flip? Try flipping it four times, then flip it another four times and see if you get the exact same result as the first four. If you didn't know before hand that the coin was fair, you would in no way be convinced of its fairness unless you flipped it a good number of times and observed heads/tails approximately half the time. A handful of flips could come up any number of ways, which is precisely why sample size matters if you want to be sure you're not dealing with a fluke (say, 3 heads in a row) vs. meaningful difference (e.g., unfair coin).

This is the same principle I'm talking about. Let this guy run his experiment several times over. You are very unlikely to get the exact same ranking of ratchets in every iteration of the experiment. When I say the result isn't repeatable that is what I'm talking about. There's no point getting excited about who's number 1 or number 4 when the next time you run the test, they may very well swap places with each other. Show me that HF or SO or whoever comes in at the top spot 9 out of 10 iterations of the same test, and you will have a much more convincing argument that it's repeatable and not luck-of-the-draw that brand X comes out on top.

Hope that makes more sense. That's what I am trying to convey here. I think we're talking about two different notions of "repeatability".
 

HomeTheaterMan

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
493
Not according to the channel descriptions or text in the video description saying the contrary, unless you have some info about channels like TTC and Project Farm taking money or free tools when saying they don't. It'd be salacious if you have info to the contrary
I don't have any professional experience with either. However I do with some other large YouTubers in a different industry. I've heard them make the same claims that they never take money, etc. while I know for a fact that they are getting paid for the video. The standard practice is that they charge a fee to shoot the video. They'll pretty much say whatever you ask them to. After they finish the video, you get to review it to make sure you agree with what they said before it gets posted. I've seen it first hand numerous times and it's pretty much the standard way a lot of large YouTube channels operate.

I don't know that Project Farm is doing this, as again, I don't work in the tool industry. However, I'm very skeptical of his videos. I needed 2 battery jump starters several years back and I ended up buying a Noco and then another brand which he tested and recommended over the Noco. As did many others on one of the forums I was on at the time. When I got it, it was a complete piece of ****. I find it really hard to believe anyone would recommend it, and they definitely wouldn't recommend it over the Noco. While it may have performed well in the tests he did, (which I doubt as the battery was such junk it was discharging itself sitting in the house for a few days), he still ignored many of the very important cons to the unit that could make it unusable quickly. He conveniently forgot to mention them. Such as the terrible clamp quality that had a plastic hinge, etc. Many members of the forum got theirs only to also report back a bunch of problems. Luckily Amazon took them back. It's really hard for me to believe anyone would recommend that thing on their own, but I honestly don't know either way.

Then there was the whole debacle with Linus Tech Tips screwdriver. The way that whole thing went down, make his claims seem mighty suspect. I'm not saying he gets paid. I'm just saying, combining that with how I know the YouTube industry works definitely puts some doubts in my mind.

I do know that a lot of large YouTubers are just doing "advertisements" and passing them off as "reviews" or "tests".
 

sparky 1971

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 9, 2018
Messages
7,960
Location
Central Iowa
It's impossible for me to care less about how much torque a ratchet can absorb before something breaks. If I'm cranking hard enough for failure to occur, I probably deserve whatever happens, from busted knuckles through buying another because I don't think that should be covered by warranty.

I do have a question though; does anyone know if the locking flex heads will be available with a plain metal handle? Particularly the 1/4 and 3/8, I already have a Mac 26" locking flex in 1/2" drive. It's a comfort grip and I don't care for that aspect but don't use it often enough for it to matter much.
 

gatewaysysop

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,285
Location
Arizona
It's impossible for me to care less about how much torque a ratchet can absorb before something breaks. If I'm cranking hard enough for failure to occur, I probably deserve whatever happens, from busted knuckles through buying another because I don't think that should be covered by warranty.

:+1: Completely agree.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Andres26tnt

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
994
Some low effort critiques here as usual

- Not relevant because of sample size, need to test 25 to mean anything: Then i suppose nearly every review you've seen of anything new was not relevant from cars to refrigerators. The 2 icon's and the 2 SO's also tested very close on every measurement. Any criticism you can levy universally regardless of the situation or source is pretty weak "well, did you buy 20 of them? Didn't think so"

- How much torque it takes to break a ratchet doesn't make it the best ratchet: Unless I'm watching a different video this made for only 1/4-1/5 of their scores.

Who testing cars and refrigerator to their breaking points in YouTube? Also doesn't consumer reports take data from multiple sources/items, or just two items? Mm takes a lot more to have a real conclusion.
 

Hakeem

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 22, 2024
Messages
1,245
Location
Chicago
i thought Torque Test Channel tested 3 copies of the tools, generally. Maybe not here because of the high cost of the ratchets but I thought I had seen that before in a video of theirs.
 

IndyGarage

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
9,669
Location
Indy
As someone who doesn't have a dog in this fight, I'll observe a few things:

First, I've not bought any Icon tools, and I don't think I will - it seems like they are now good enough for anything you want to throw at them, but I consider Harbor Freight a source of cheap tools. If I'm out of town and need cheap tools for a single job, I know I can get them at Harbor Freight and I do. If I need a tool that I'm only going to use on a rare occasion - Harbor Freight. That's just how I've grown to use them. I think it's good they've grown beyond that.

Second, I have ratchets that are cheaper than the Icon's that work just fine, including several gearwrench and some off brand that I bought out of the clearance rack at the parts store. I have only broken a ratchet once or twice in 30 years of pretty hard diy wrenching, so break strength really doesn't mean much.

Third, The Nepros stuff seems to be made to look good. Every review I see raves about the look of it - the box it comes in. I tend to reject stuff that is made for looks - the box goes in the trash 10 seconds after I open it. Plus they get covered in grease and dropped on the floor and scraped against other stuff continuously, so they don't look that good for long with me. I've never been one to buy impressive clothes or jewelry or anything - I like to buy stuff that works.

Finally - I love my 3/8 Snap on Dual 80 extra long flex head. It's often the first thing I pull out of the drawer and works fantastic. I don't buy from a tool truck, and I don't have much Snap on stuff, but the stuff I have is really good.
 

M635_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
4,333
Location
NC
It boggles my mind how rustled people get about this topic.

I value the backdrag number a lot more than the failure since I'm just never cranking on a ratchet that hard.

And while it is fair to say the sample size is not large enough to draw some kinds of conclusions that A) works both ways and B) is a piece of information if it is well and fairly done. In the case of the TTC, I think they make an earnest to have good methodology.

But my own experiences with these tools (and their SO equivalents) would agree with the testing here that Icon is not ****.

In the case of the G2 stuff, I really think they need shorter models. I'm going to guess that was a combination of production capability and a "soft launch" of the series.
 

General Geoff

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
3,866
Location
Allentown, Pennsylvania
Third, The Nepros stuff seems to be made to look good. Every review I see raves about the look of it - the box it comes in. I tend to reject stuff that is made for looks - the box goes in the trash 10 seconds after I open it. Plus they get covered in grease and dropped on the floor and scraped against other stuff continuously, so they don't look that good for long with me. I've never been one to buy impressive clothes or jewelry or anything - I like to buy stuff that works.
I bought a 1/4" drive Nepros ratchet a few years ago when one came up on really good sale on Amazon.

It is a work of art in fit/finish, and I use it largely in a carpeted enclosed porch that is my miniature motorcycle garage. In this environment where there is no hard concrete floor to drop it on, the chrome has stayed pretty much perfect over years of use. Would I buy one for $100 (current amazon price)? No, but for half that which is about what I paid, it's a heck of a tool
 

rword

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2025
Messages
425
It's impossible for me to care less about how much torque a ratchet can absorb before something breaks. If I'm cranking hard enough for failure to occur, I probably deserve whatever happens, from busted knuckles through buying another because I don't think that should be covered by warranty.

I do have a question though; does anyone know if the locking flex heads will be available with a plain metal handle? Particularly the 1/4 and 3/8, I already have a Mac 26" locking flex in 1/2" drive. It's a comfort grip and I don't care for that aspect but don't use it often enough for it to matter much.
The argument isn’t that the icon won the tough test. The argument is the icon performs close in every single test to the snap on at a 3rd of the price. That’s the takeaway.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,530
Location
Pennsylvannia
Feel will always beat any stats in ratchet. I prefer quick release, hard handles and slim heads. So I'm on a mission to get rid of most of my other ratchet I don't used. Doesn't matter if it's a much stronger ratchet. Fyi I haven't broken a ratchet in years.
According to the test, that would be the Nepros ratchet.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,530
Location
Pennsylvannia
I mean, no offense to the ICON lovers (kinda), but if they just copied Snap On, seems like mediocre manufacturing still would give favorable results.
According yo the video, the Icon ratchet didn’t just copy Snap-On.
The forged and machined ratchet head was basically the same, and apparently would fit the Snap-On parts, but the internal components were a different design.
I forget whether that was for both tested Icon ratchets, since I was only half paying attention while watching the video.
 

neophyte

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Messages
9,530
Location
Pennsylvannia
Who testing cars and refrigerator to their breaking points in YouTube? Also doesn't consumer reports take data from multiple sources/items, or just two items? Mm takes a lot more to have a real conclusion.
Whistlin Diesel is testing cars to their breaking points, although usually using ridiculously over the top methods that might fit the term “Gonzo”.

Consumer Reports testing varies.
I remember one test in CR of circular saws from a couple decades or more ago, where the saws were tested using the blades the saws came with, and only the blades the saws came with, which meant the Skil worm drive saw came out poorly, because at the time, Skil was still only providing a regular steel blade, maybe to get rid of old stock.
Most objective testing of circular saws from actual woodworking magazines would use equip all the saws with an equivalent blade from the same blade manufacturer.
Other CR testing tended to vary in quality from excellent to wanting.
 

d.mcfarland

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 18, 2012
Messages
6,562
Location
Western PA
According yo the video, the Icon ratchet didn’t just copy Snap-On.
The forged and machined ratchet head was basically the same, and apparently would fit the Snap-On parts, but the internal components were a different design.

They copied them and changed it enough to where there would be reasonable doubt in court of patent infringement.

The entire ICON line is based off of stealing Snap On customers who are looking for a lower price point but want the Snap On version.

Honest to God I wouldn't even be surprised if Snap On is in on it. Harbor Freight gives them a cut and Snap On doesn't file a lawsuit.
 
OP
M

milky2k

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2022
Messages
206
Location
Los Angeles CA
It's impossible for me to care less about how much torque a ratchet can absorb before something breaks. If I'm cranking hard enough for failure to occur, I probably deserve whatever happens, from busted knuckles through buying another because I don't think that should be covered by warranty.

I do have a question though; does anyone know if the locking flex heads will be available with a plain metal handle? Particularly the 1/4 and 3/8, I already have a Mac 26" locking flex in 1/2" drive. It's a comfort grip and I don't care for that aspect but don't use it often enough for it to matter much.
This is the line up HF was showing at SEMA last year. They don't appear to have a 3/8 locking flex in metal handle. That is my preference too but its not a deal breaker for me. No word on when the rest of the ratchets will be released though.

 

Andres26tnt

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
994
Whistlin Diesel is testing cars to their breaking points, although usually using ridiculously over the top methods that might fit the term “Gonzo”.

Consumer Reports testing varies.
I remember one test in CR of circular saws from a couple decades or more ago, where the saws were tested using the blades the saws came with, and only the blades the saws came with, which meant the Skil worm drive saw came out poorly, because at the time, Skil was still only providing a regular steel blade, maybe to get rid of old stock.
Most objective testing of circular saws from actual woodworking magazines would use equip all the saws with an equivalent blade from the same blade manufacturer.
Other CR testing tended to vary in quality from excellent to wanting.

That guy is not testing cars 😂.
 

Steve_P

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Messages
5,181
Whistlin Diesel is testing cars to their breaking points, although usually using ridiculously over the top methods that might fit the term “Gonzo”.

Consumer Reports testing varies.
I remember one test in CR of circular saws from a couple decades or more ago, where the saws were tested using the blades the saws came with, and only the blades the saws came with, which meant the Skil worm drive saw came out poorly, because at the time, Skil was still only providing a regular steel blade, maybe to get rid of old stock.
Most objective testing of circular saws from actual woodworking magazines would use equip all the saws with an equivalent blade from the same blade manufacturer.
Other CR testing tended to vary in quality from excellent to wanting.

Consumer Reports is for typical consumers- they test products as delivered. They test thousands of products each year and don't have time to **** around swapping saw blades or to test a dishwasher for 5 years. If you sell a saw with a POS blade, then that's part of the grading, because that's how a typical consumer is going to use it- right out of the box.

Their long-term review tables incorporate subscriber feedback for reliability, satisfaction, etc. If you are a serious woodworker, then obviously you might want to use a woodworking magazine for reviews. If you want the best track car, then look to Motor Trend. If you want to buy a microwave, string trimmer, TV, best laundry detergent, air fryer, toaster oven, sunscreen, typical vehicle... then I find CR to be an excellent resource.
 

Ohio Andy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 31, 2024
Messages
2,244
Location
Columbus, Ohio
My takeaway was that they were both pretty similar.... I Own one. Snap-on 100 ratchet I like it very much.

I recently acquired one icon G2 ratchet. I like it very much.

The numbers were so close, it was hard for me to convince myself that there's likely any significant difference between them based on their testing.
 
Last edited:

seber

Well-known member
Joined
May 31, 2016
Messages
4,188
Location
Deep East Tx.
Consumer Reports is for typical consumers- they test products as delivered. They test thousands of products each year and don't have time to **** around swapping saw blades or to test a dishwasher for 5 years. If you sell a saw with a POS blade, then that's part of the grading, because that's how a typical consumer is going to use it- right out of the box.

Their long-term review tables incorporate subscriber feedback for reliability, satisfaction, etc. If you are a serious woodworker, then obviously you might want to use a woodworking magazine for reviews. If you want the best track car, then look to Motor Trend. If you want to buy a microwave, string trimmer, TV, best laundry detergent, air fryer, toaster oven, sunscreen, typical vehicle... then I find CR to be an excellent resource.
No casual consumer is going to pay for a worm drive saw. If you are savvy and serious enough to buy one, you are not going to leave a throwaway blade on it even for one cut. Most of the reviews from CR have the same problem. But some of the data is just plain trash. When all of the big three automakers were selling rebranded Japanese cars, the Japanese model would get great reviews while the exact same car with a US badge would see horrible reviews.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom