ICON Socket——color me unimpressed

[Al Borland]

And that is how you bell-end a socket. Common in the older cheap sockets, they stopped cracking and belled out after everyone started imitating "Flank Drive". Metal stretched due to poor/no heat treating or Chinesium construction.
Way better than sudden crack failure.

 

[AEAdam]

Heat treating steel has been going on for 1000 years now, but it’s a complicated process that requires skill and control.

I’d liken it to baking. You need good materials, measured carefully, clean conditions, and a controlled repeatable process.

Inspection and testing processes are absolutely essential. Being able to know whether the cake is done or not is important. Understanding what you need to change about the process or ingredients to achieve/correct the end product is essential. Of course you can’t do that without test data.

Most or all of this is beyond the capabilities, goals, economic plans of lots and lots of tool makers all across the globe. Chinese, Taiwan industries really suffer with a third world supply chain. The ingredients coming in the door are often out of control. They could be doing their absolute level best in the tool factory and this could happen. Staff changes, financial pressures play a role. I‘ve heard some factories in Asia have inconsistent electrical service.

My frustration with these conversations is that one person says brand x is **** and another says brand x is awesome. Our response is to try to find out who is right. What we need to think about is, it’s possible both are right and there’s that much variation in the finished product.

 

[AEAdam]

Delete

 

[zendriver]

Heat treating steel has been going on for 1000 years now, but it’s a complicated process that requires skill and control.

I’d liken it to baking. You need good materials, measured carefully, clean conditions, and a controlled repeatable process.

Inspection and testing processes are absolutely essential. Being able to know whether the cake is done or not is important. Understanding what you need to change about the process or ingredients to achieve/correct the end product is essential. Of course you can’t do that without test data.

Most or all of this is beyond the capabilities, goals, economic plans of lots and lots of tool makers all across the globe. Chinese, Taiwan industries really suffer with a third world supply chain. The ingredients coming in the door are often out of control. They could be doing their absolute level best in the tool factory and this could happen. Staff changes, financial pressures play a role. I‘ve heard some factories in Asia have inconsistent electrical service.

My frustration with these conversations is that one person says brand x is **** and another says brand x is awesome. Our response is to try to find out who is right. What we need to think about is, it’s possible both are right and there’s that much variation in the finished product.

Might be a similar problem here.

Steel used to be made from pure iron ore, so they always knew what they were working with.

Recycled steel, a mixture of who knows what? Is the makeup always consistent?

 

[Mr_B]

other issue giving various differing product opinions with a tool brand sourcing from manufacturers is production shifts to different manufacturer and product changes, ICON sockets for example went through a change from crv to crmo after early complaints on wear/deformation .
No idea who HF using to manufacture the sockets but I got some Taiwan chrome crv socket rail sets close to 2 decades old that done beyond amazing in professional use/abuse considering price on per socket basis of 2 to 4 bucks .

 

[neophyte]

I presume most sockets are heat treated similar yo the way Snap-On does their heat treating.
A giant steel basket full of sockets gets put thru an oven, that heats the dockets up before quenching the sockets to harden them.
Then the basket is put thru another oven at a lower temperature for tempering.

Presumably, since some sockets are near the outside and corners of the basket, and others are in the center, there can be slight differences in temperatures and quenching, resulting in slight differences in hardness and ductility.
Individually dipping each socket in a liquid lead or salt bath would be way more controllable, but also likely way more expensive.

 

[AEAdam]

Steel used to be made from pure iron ore, so they always knew what they were working with.

Recycled steel, a mixture of who knows what? Is the makeup always consistent?

Pure iron is iron, Fe, not steel.

Snap On for example, does not use recycled steel. They‘ve used the same US made steel for decades.

I presume most sockets are heat treated similar yo the way Snap-On does their heat treating.
A giant steel basket full of sockets gets put thru an oven, that heats the dockets up before quenching the sockets to harden them.

Right. This all looks simpler than it is. The heat is important, but the heat transfer is key. Heat transfer being the rate at which the sockets gain heat. I would guess the number of sockets in the basket matters etc etc.

Point is, tools are complicated and it simply isn’t true that a tool with no moving parts is trivial to manufacture.

 

[zendriver]

Pure iron is iron, Fe, not steel.

Snap On for example, does not use recycled steel. They‘ve used the same US made steel for decades.

Thanks, Mr. Science. Who knew steel was not made from iron?

I was just making a point that for many years (post WWII), the US never really used recycled metals much. No money in doing so. That why most of it sat in the woods, part yards or was buried in dumps.

Just because steel is made in the US, does not necessarily mean it does not contain scrap. Snap On might be an exception.

From the Industry

All steel produced in the U.S. contains recycled content, ranging up to 100 percent for some steel products. For example, structural steel produced in America typically contains 90 percent or more recycled steel. In the U.S. alone, there are typically 60 to 80 million tons of steel scrap recycled per year into new steel products. Based on a three-year rolling average, the U.S. overall steel recycling rate for 2019 is calculated at 69 percent, with rates ranging from 65 percent to 80 percent since 2012.

https://www.steel.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/AISI_FactSheet_SteelSustainability-11-3-21.pdf

 

[Hakeem]

Thanks, Mr. Science. Who knew steel was not made from iron?

I was just making a point that for many years (post WWII), the US never really used recycled metals much. No money in doing so. That why most of it sat in the woods, part yards or was buried in dumps.

Just because steel is made in the US, does not necessarily mean it does not contain scrap. Snap On might be an exception.

From the Industry

https://www.steel.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/AISI_FactSheet_SteelSustainability-11-3-21.pdf

If recycled steel is good enough to be used for structural applications, I’d think it would be just fine for hand tools, no? I know very little about metallurgy so kindly correct me if I am mistaken.

 

[zendriver]

If recycled steel is good enough to be used for structural applications, I’d think it would be just fine for hand tools, no? I know very little about metallurgy so kindly correct me if I am mistaken.

No idea, myself. Probably.

I was just wondering if it can be kept consistent, for one melt to the next. considering scrap steel is generally some of everything. Maybe it can.

 

[Hakeem]

No idea, myself. Probably.

I was just wondering if it can be kept consistent, for one melt to the next. considering scrap steel is generally some of everything. Maybe it can.

Fair point. I remember vinyl records made from recycled vinyl were supposed to be inferior quality although I wonder how much of that was propaganda from the record industry.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Fair point. I remember vinyl records made from recycled vinyl were supposed to be inferior quality although I wonder how much of that was propaganda from the record industry.

IIRC the base surfaces were not as smooth and caused feedback issues. Added noise/distortion vs virgin vinyl. Or at least that was what the record store owners told me when I would buy them in high school for $5/each used. Pretty cool to sit down and listen to a 50yo record. Supposedly the record industry tried this to lower costs but didn't do sufficient processing of the used vinyl to remove the imperfections.

 

[AEAdam]

If recycled steel is good enough to be used for structural applications, I’d think it would be just fine for hand tools, no? I know very little about metallurgy so kindly correct me if I am mistaken.

yeah, structural steel and tool steel are 2 different things. Lions and Tigers. Tool steels are almost always high carbon steels and must be very tightly controlled. Different amounts of carbon, even fractions of a percent, make a big difference in heat treatment.

Thanks, Mr. Science. Who knew steel was not made from iron?

I was just making a point that for many years (post WWII), the US never really used recycled metals much. No money in doing so. That why most of it sat in the woods, part yards or was buried in dumps.

Just because steel is made in the US, does not necessarily mean it does not contain scrap. Snap On might be an exception.

Sorry. I thought you were saying steel was better because it was iron. People write dumb things on GJ. Sometimes I do too!

 

[Hakeem]

IIRC the base surfaces were not as smooth and caused feedback issues. Added noise/distortion vs virgin vinyl. Or at least that was what the record store owners told me when I would buy them in high school for $5/each used. Pretty cool to sit down and listen to a 50yo record. Supposedly the record industry tried this to lower costs but didn't do sufficient processing of the used vinyl to remove the imperfections.

Yes, vinyl records are, I believe, the most durable form of music storage. Stored properly they should last 100+ years, long after CDs, cassette tapes, and most forms of digital storage have disintegrated

Given what I know about recycling of other plastics—chiefly, that it’s cost effective — I could definitely see issues arising with as sensitive of a medium as vinyl records. I only ever saw it referenced on the back of a disco record, touting its virgin vinyl as a selling point

 

[08h3]

Heat treat can be tricky, but if they have a good idea of the steels makeup it isn't difficult. Its also likely they hold the baskets at temp for X minutes to allow the sockets to soak and come close to a exact temp before quenching. Same thing I do when I heat treat a batch of knife blades.

 

[Hohn]

Having both Tekton and Icon socket sets that often work side-by-side, I'd disagree. The Icon sockets I have are less-sloppy/have tighter tolerances than the Tektons and in the 3/8" starting around 14mm are progressively shorter which often comes in very handy (the Tektons appear to share more blanks at the lower sizes).

Similar for my Icon vs. my (now sold) Tekton combo wrenches - more slop in the open end and a 'softer' combo end that means you have to get more over the fastener to get grip. (My Hazet set is better than either on both ends)

To be clear, I'm happy with my Tekton stuff and none of it has failed me, but in-hand there's a distinct difference to me. The Icon seems to be better. I think of Tekton as a direct competitor for the Quinn line, and I'm not so sure they don't share the same ODM for chrome sockets.

I can't disagree, and I probably should have been more careful in my posting. I didn't mean to suggest that all Tektons are better than all ICONs categorically, or that Tekton sockets are better. I've super happy with my icon sockets for the reasons you mention-- tight fit, etc. I don't own any Tekton sockets, but the ICONs are some of the best chrome sockets I've ever used, nearly S/O tight and compact (and not full depth broached either, which I prefer).

I don't own any ICON combo wrenches, and I only have the Tektons in sizes 20mm and up where fastener fit is not critical (or rather, it's easier to achieve a good fit).

Rather, I had in mind the tool purchases I might make in the future, and I think I've about plucked the tree clean of all the ICON low-hanging fruit. IN the unlikely event I need or want to buy hand tools going forward, I'm probably more likely to buy the Tektons just because I think I already own all the ICONs of use to me.

The likely exception to that is more ICON pliers. I have the ICON flush cutters and they quality is amazing relative to the price. My flush cutters will cut wire the the size of a human hair cleanly and do it for $25.

I can see several more ICON pliers landing in my drawers, based not on them being better than Tekton but just being excellent in absolute terms. Some of them are Knipex grade it seems and cost much less.

 

[M635_Guy]

I can't disagree, and I probably should have been more careful in my posting. I didn't mean to suggest that all Tektons are better than all ICONs categorically, or that Tekton sockets are better. I've super happy with my icon sockets for the reasons you mention-- tight fit, etc. I don't own any Tekton sockets, but the ICONs are some of the best chrome sockets I've ever used, nearly S/O tight and compact (and not full depth broached either, which I prefer).

I don't own any ICON combo wrenches, and I only have the Tektons in sizes 20mm and up where fastener fit is not critical (or rather, it's easier to achieve a good fit).

Rather, I had in mind the tool purchases I might make in the future, and I think I've about plucked the tree clean of all the ICON low-hanging fruit. IN the unlikely event I need or want to buy hand tools going forward, I'm probably more likely to buy the Tektons just because I think I already own all the ICONs of use to me.

The likely exception to that is more ICON pliers. I have the ICON flush cutters and they quality is amazing relative to the price. My flush cutters will cut wire the the size of a human hair cleanly and do it for $25.

I can see several more ICON pliers landing in my drawers, based not on them being better than Tekton but just being excellent in absolute terms. Some of them are Knipex grade it seems and cost much less.

I'm probably in the same boat with Icon - I have a fair bit of it, and the only thing I can think of I'd buy at this point is the LN47-ACF clone to go along with my Snap On LN46-ACF pair (I bought the SO pair because I was pretty sure I'd use the smaller size far more than the larger, and having used the SO pair a while I'm pretty sure that's going to prove true - I haven't wished for them to be bigger yet, so having the Icon in that size will have it in the drawer without having to invest $80 in it.

But no hate for Tekton intended at all - I recommend them for sure.

 

[roofdweller49]

Are icon and toptul the only Taiwanese sockets that use different length blanks for the different sizes, like the snap on and stahlwille sockets they copy?

 

[Jeep_Dave]

There is simply no practical way to check each and every socket coming down a production line

Not really true these days actually... they can just use cameras and other scanning equipment... I mean Amsoil uses a camera to check the gap between a cap and the bottle to see if it is screwed on the right enough on a moving line... if they can do that imaging a socket to see if it is out of shape is easy.

My company scans items 8 times on one production line to ensure quality in various factors.

 

[dchawk81]

Not really true these days actually... they can just use cameras and other scanning equipment... I mean Amsoil uses a camera to check the gap between a cap and the bottle to see if it is screwed on the right enough on a moving line... if they can do that imaging a socket to see if it is out of shape is easy.

My company scans items 8 times on one production line to ensure quality in various factors.

I'd think a camera would be more for yes/no moreso than .0005mm under/oversizing.

I can't see a camera doing something at high speed that you'd usually need Starrett calipers for.

Then again maybe that's why Starrett is going out of business.

I also don't see how a camera can check for proper heat treatment once it's cooled down.

 

[Johnny_opm]

A similar thing happened in this video to an icon socket during first use

Tbh a lot of icon stuff seems pretty overpriced when compared to your run of the mill Taiwan stuff that's often cheaper and similar quality. I bought a few ratchets and one of them started skipping teeth after a couple light uses. They have a couple home runs like their bit ratchet set and their lights. Wouldn't mind trying some of their snappy knock off pliers. But I have lost all interest in buying the standard tools, ratchets/wrenches/sockets etc.

People talk about the warranty, but the warranty is completely useless when all the popular icon stuff is out of stock for months at a time which is often the case at all my local HF's. I'll stick with the online tools for my non USA made stuff and just deal with shipping times instead for warranties. Or I'll go with Pittsburgh, their sockets haven't let me down yet for my beater throwaway sets.

 

[Jeep_Dave]

A similar thing happened in this video to an icon socket during first use

Tbh a lot of icon stuff seems pretty overpriced when compared to your run of the mill Taiwan stuff that's often cheaper and similar quality. I bought a few ratchets and one of them started skipping teeth after a couple light uses. They have a couple home runs like their bit ratchet set and their lights. Wouldn't mind trying some of their snappy knock off pliers. But I have lost all interest in buying the standard tools, ratchets/wrenches/sockets etc.

People talk about the warranty, but the warranty is completely useless when all the popular icon stuff is out of stock for months at a time which is often the case at all my local HF's. I'll stick with the online tools for my non USA made stuff and just deal with shipping times instead for warranties. Or I'll go with Pittsburgh, their sockets haven't let me down yet for my beater throwaway sets.

But I mean, in that video he used a std socket on an etorx head.... broke the icon, stripped out the snapon... both damaged from using it wrong, surprise surprise.

Not going to say I think ICON is some awesome tool, but I do have 3 full time mechanic friends who've used em for years without issues... sure there may be some issues that slip through the cracks, but hey, they're better than the pittsburg lol.

 

[Hohn]

A similar thing happened in this video to an icon socket during first use

Tbh a lot of icon stuff seems pretty overpriced when compared to your run of the mill Taiwan stuff that's often cheaper and similar quality. I bought a few ratchets and one of them started skipping teeth after a couple light uses. They have a couple home runs like their bit ratchet set and their lights. Wouldn't mind trying some of their snappy knock off pliers. But I have lost all interest in buying the standard tools, ratchets/wrenches/sockets etc.

People talk about the warranty, but the warranty is completely useless when all the popular icon stuff is out of stock for months at a time which is often the case at all my local HF's. I'll stick with the online tools for my non USA made stuff and just deal with shipping times instead for warranties. Or I'll go with Pittsburgh, their sockets haven't let me down yet for my beater throwaway sets.

This just in: abused tools can break.

 

[Hohn]

I'm probably in the same boat with Icon - I have a fair bit of it, and the only thing I can think of I'd buy at this point is the LN47-ACF clone to go along with my Snap On LN46-ACF pair (I bought the SO pair because I was pretty sure I'd use the smaller size far more than the larger, and having used the SO pair a while I'm pretty sure that's going to prove true - I haven't wished for them to be bigger yet, so having the Icon in that size will have it in the drawer without having to invest $80 in it.

But no hate for Tekton intended at all - I recommend them for sure.

I guess I didn't see a clone of the LN47-ACF. I see now that you're are referring to these:

8 in. 3-Position Slip-Joint Pliers

Amazing deals on this 8In Slip Joint Pliers at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

I don't agree with HF's marketing that these are directly comparable. The HF's don't have an unserrated portion near the tip and the jaw shape is quite different with the Snappies being longer nose and the Icons being more traditional.

I'd still give the ICONs a try just because 1) I've become quite fond of their pliers, 2) it's < $20, and 3) I have a pliers collecting mental health defect.

 

[Aileron]

I'm not knocking HF but there is a reason people have been throwing the hardware away their HF(and other places also) **** comes with and going to the local hardware store for a upgraded bolts. Cheap Chinese steel. IMO,it's all Pittsburgh with a designer price tag so you couldn't use their now nonexistent 25% off coupon anymore.

 

[zendriver]

I'm not knocking HF but there is a reason people have been throwing the hardware away their HF(and other places also) **** comes with and going to the local hardware store for a upgraded bolts. Cheap Chinese steel. IMO,it's all Pittsburgh with a designer price tag so you couldn't use their now nonexistent 25% off coupon anymore.

You kinda are knocking them.

 

[JeepYJ]

I'm not knocking HF but there is a reason people have been throwing the hardware away their HF(and other places also) **** comes with and going to the local hardware store for a upgraded bolts. Cheap Chinese steel. IMO,it's all Pittsburgh with a designer price tag so you couldn't use their now nonexistent 25% off coupon anymore.

There’s a difference between Taiwan made tools and Chinese made tools and Indian made tools. Usually they’re in that order of quality.

 

[Hohn]

There’s a difference between Taiwan made tools and Chinese made tools and Indian made tools. Usually they’re in that order of quality.

Not just in that order but the space between them can vary wildly. Some Taiwanese approaches the level of the best European or American parts. The worst Taiwanese is usually still pretty good. Chinese can be anything from as good as the middling Taiwanese to disposable FutureTrash™. The worst Indian and the worst Chinese are both terrible. The difference is that the top end of Chinese reaches up pretty high and the top end of Indian doesn't really exist. India is the new China for trying to make the cheapest stuff on earth.

 

[M635_Guy]

I guess I didn't see a clone of the LN47-ACF. I see now that you're are referring to these:

8 in. 3-Position Slip-Joint Pliers

Amazing deals on this 8In Slip Joint Pliers at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

I don't agree with HF's marketing that these are directly comparable. The HF's don't have an unserrated portion near the tip and the jaw shape is quite different with the Snappies being longer nose and the Icons being more traditional.

I'd still give the ICONs a try just because 1) I've become quite fond of their pliers, 2) it's < $20, and 3) I have a pliers collecting mental health defect.

No - they have a direct clone of the bigger model of these coming:


I've had that smaller pair for a while now, and honestly use them a fair bit more than I expected. I got the smaller size because I felt like the bigger pair would be unwieldy most of the time, and I think I was right. But, based on how much use I've gotten out of these, I'll probably stick the Icon pair that was announced at SEMA and due soon (various HF folks there said both "February" and "Spring" at the show about the timing of release) in my box. I can't recall if they stated pricing, but given the prices of most other Icon pliers, I'd guess $25 or less without a coupon. If they drift up to $30, I'll probably wait until there's a 30% coupon.

Anyway, I'm not sure what the video above was trying to prove other than the guy's buddy isn't the brightest bulb and that tools used for something other than their purpose are more likely to break. I don't think most would argue that Icon =Snap On. For myself, I couldn't responsibly spend the money on an all-Snap On set of tools. I can't remember the last tool I've broken, but it is very rare that I use the wrong tool for the job. That's not high-mindedness so much as a knowledge that doing that often yields a far more complicated problem to solve (at least in my experience). The only tools I can think of that I'm disappointed in are my Sunex ratchets that have the most-garbage self-reversing mechanism I've ever had the displeasure to use, and my Matco88 locking flex ratchet that has such a stiff locking switch that it's nearly unusable (to unlock/lock).

I'm not accusing the OP of anything, but that's a very odd failure given what he was doing and unusual vs. my experience and the pros I've heard say they're using Icon tools successfully. So I categorize it as what it appears to be - an anomaly. At least for sockets and combo wrenches, it seems like Icon and Carlyle very often use the same ODMs, and I find it a little funny that people aren't jumping online to post their disappointments with Carlyle/NAPA.

 

[Hakeem]

I'd still give the ICONs a try just because 1) I've become quite fond of their pliers, 2) it's < $20, and 3) I have a pliers collecting mental health defect.

The icon pliers are the best value in tools right now. Good pliers I can use hard and replace if they break or wear out—all for $20? Yes please. You have to spend $30+ to get better pliers and those typically don’t have a warranty.

I’ve been stocking up on the weekends where they do the “30% off everything $20 or less” to get them for $14.

 

[JradM]

That is a weird failure OP. I can't see how you did anything wrong, using it how you described. A socket just shouldn't do that - I agree with the fellow who pointed out earlier that the 1/2" drive anvil ought to have failed first.

Makes me wonder if that socket skipped heat treatment on the assembly line somehow. I hope that turns out to be outlier.

Lug nuts aren't the tightest fasteners someone is likely to encounter in that size. No way should it have stressed your socket to failure no matter how hard you pulled on an 18" ratchet. Provided you aren't using a cheater, tools are DESIGNED to handle the forces you can apply by hand.

 

[randywolf244]

Odd failure for sure.

Obviously I recommend warrantying the tool you have first. I'm assuming you either are a hobbyist or a former pro turned hobbyist like myself so getting all snap-on tools would just be ridiculous. That said getting your most commonly used tools in snap-on wouldn't be a bad idea.

I don't have a snap on socket set, but I do have snap-on sockets in my toolbox. When you buy a set you are paying for all the sockets including the ones you will likely never use.

One I would definitely recommend getting is the 10mm. The rest depend on what you are going to be working on. Which you can easily find out based on what sizes you pick up on a regular basis.

I work on an old Mazda and I can take the entire car apart with an 8, 10, 12, 14, and a 21 for the lug nuts. Those are the snap on sockets in my box, The rest is either icon or ****, I mean craftsman.

 

[Hohn]

Odd failure for sure.

Obviously I recommend warrantying the tool you have first. I'm assuming you either are a hobbyist or a former pro turned hobbyist like myself so getting all snap-on tools would just be ridiculous. That said getting your most commonly used tools in snap-on wouldn't be a bad idea.

I don't have a snap on socket set, but I do have snap-on sockets in my toolbox. When you buy a set you are paying for all the sockets including the ones you will likely never use.

One I would definitely recommend getting is the 10mm. The rest depend on what you are going to be working on. Which you can easily find out based on what sizes you pick up on a regular basis.

I work on an old Mazda and I can take the entire car apart with an 8, 10, 12, 14, and a 21 for the lug nuts. Those are the snap on sockets in my box, The rest is either icon or ****, I mean craftsman.

I'm really starting to see the wisdom of upgrading and proliferating key sizes instead of buying whole sets.
Easily 90% of my Toyota work is 10, 12, or 14mm. So it makes sense IMO to buy all the tool variants you can think of in those sizes.
Heck, I have four different box ends in those sizes-- different offsets, different angles, 12 vs 6pt, etc.

 

[908Jim]

Any socket should be stronger than the square drive driving it. Full stop. The only acceptable failure mode is twisting off the drive anvil.

I'm willing to bet that with enough "normal" use, even the world's best chrome sockets will eventually fail due to fatigue. Most people may never hit that point and you can prolong this by using the largest reasonable drive size to reduce the stresses in the socket and extend the life, but you've got a finite number of cycles.

 

[liliysdad]

I'm really starting to see the wisdom of upgrading and proliferating key sizes instead of buying whole sets.
Easily 90% of my Toyota work is 10, 12, or 14mm. So it makes sense IMO to buy all the tool variants you can think of in those sizes.
Heck, I have four different box ends in those sizes-- different offsets, different angles, 12 vs 6pt, etc.

This really, really doesn't work when you are like me and work on predominantly pre-80s American stuff. I might use ten different SAE sized just under the hood. My metric stuff doesn't really get a lot of mileage, which is why I cheaped out and bought ICON and GearWrench stuff for most of my metric needs.

 

[Hohn]

This really, really doesn't work when you are like me and work on predominantly pre-80s American stuff. I might use ten different SAE sized just under the hood. My metric stuff doesn't really get a lot of mileage, which is why I cheaped out and bought ICON and GearWrench stuff for most of my metric needs.

I can see that. Although I will say it's pretty amazing how far you can go on any 60s or 70s Mopar with just a 9/16"..

 

[liliysdad]

I can see that. Although I will say it's pretty amazing how far you can go on any 60s or 70s Mopar with just a 9/16"..

Try a mid-70s Jeep....

I do everything I can to stay away from Mopars.

 

[AEAdam]

The icon pliers are the best value in tools right now. Good pliers I can use hard and replace if they break or wear out—all for $20? Yes please. You have to spend $30+ to get better pliers and those typically don’t have a warranty.

I’ve been stocking up on the weekends where they do the “30% off everything $20 or less” to get them for $14.

They are literally cheesy rip offs of Snap On pliers without any of the metallurgy or finish work that makes Snap On what they are. Blindfolded, you would know instantly whose are whose, just from the flex.

There are plenty of serious pliers manufacturers out there better than Icon. More and more, it looks like Icon is a scam, a joke, not a serious attempt at decent tools for good prices. I thought they were copying Snap On to harness good basic design. No, it looks like it’s just a style over substance thing. Marketing. A sucker test.

Klein make decent mid to low priced pliers in the US with a good warranty. Tar and feather me, my old Craftsman Professional (industrial?) black pliers (and screwdrivers) were pretty nice, inexpensive and have held up to a lot of abuse. Rumor was they were made by FACOM.

 

[bcradio]

They are literally cheesy rip offs of Snap On pliers without any of the metallurgy or finish work that makes Snap On what they are. Blindfolded, you would know instantly whose are whose, just from the flex.

There are plenty of serious pliers manufacturers out there better than Icon. More and more, it looks like Icon is a scam, a joke, not a serious attempt at decent tools for good prices. I thought they were copying Snap On to harness good basic design. No, it looks like it’s just a style over substance thing. Marketing. A sucker test.

Klein make decent mid to low priced pliers in the US with a good warranty. Tar and feather me, my old Craftsman Professional (industrial?) black pliers (and screwdrivers) were pretty nice, inexpensive and have held up to a lot of abuse. Rumor was they were made by FACOM.

Grab a Snickers bro and chill out.

 

[dnschmidt]

A similar thing happened in this video to an icon socket during first use

Tbh a lot of icon stuff seems pretty overpriced when compared to your run of the mill Taiwan stuff that's often cheaper and similar quality. I bought a few ratchets and one of them started skipping teeth after a couple light uses. They have a couple home runs like their bit ratchet set and their lights. Wouldn't mind trying some of their snappy knock off pliers. But I have lost all interest in buying the standard tools, ratchets/wrenches/sockets etc.

People talk about the warranty, but the warranty is completely useless when all the popular icon stuff is out of stock for months at a time which is often the case at all my local HF's. I'll stick with the online tools for my non USA made stuff and just deal with shipping times instead for warranties. Or I'll go with Pittsburgh, their sockets haven't let me down yet for my beater throwaway sets.

Who cares if it broke prior to destroying the screw or distorted the screw to the point of needing extraction? Given a choice between the two I'll settle for the broken socket over the distorted bolt destroying one. Incidentally, who is stupid enough to try this dumb assed trick when E-torx sockets are cheap? Lots of assholes in this world.