Icon T7 scan tool

[M635_Guy]

Try one of these in the correct size.

All you can really tell with a scan tool, and not all may be available:

1) Is a charging fault set? Codes may not even exist depending on the car.
2) What is current system voltage?
3) What is commanded/target/set point voltage? For instance a Kia may charge at 12.3v idling and be 100% as designed.
4) What is the commanded duty cycle/output/whatever? How hard is the PCM trying to command this alternator? Going 100% wide open with no charging? Does the PCM even know there's a problem? Is the PCM even who is in charge of the alternator?


Other than that you'll need to do a basic voltage drop/big test light test on the B+ cable and the block, and check inputs into the alternator on the electrical plug.

Yesterday I had a dead Rover, bad alternator. B+/B- good with big *** test lamp, good enough it should charge something. Single wire alternator, LIN bus communication, scope shows a pattern of "something" which look like good data packets. Replace alternator.

Then an Avalon, also bad alternator. Big *** test lamp confirms cables/block acceptable, 4 pin connector. 1 constant B+ feed, one is switched, both good. Another for the warning light, don't really care about that. The last is a PWM signal at key on engine off, pulls down to ground upon starting which I assume is full output. Replace alternator.


The problem learning a scan tool, is you/me/nobody knows what data is inherently in it, or how to find it. So you try to find the info you can and do with it what you can. I didn't know the LIN bus on the Rover was 0-12v, or ground was full output on the Toyota. But looking at charging commanded output, actual output, and duty cycle to the alternator made it more apparent how the system was designed. The voltage plunged after startup so I wasn't convinced to bother doing a voltage drop on the alternator cable, it was clear there was absolutely zero output. I always do that test engine off, so a charging alternator won't fool me the cable is bad.

Typically, typically, if the red battery light is on, you have some issue. If it isn't, the PCM is generally okay with the charging system function. But the toyota had no charging system light on at 11 volts at idle. So who knows.

The battery was a fairly new one (Jan of this year, nice Duralast Gold yadda yadda, but was junk. They swapped it immediately.

By my multimeter and the Autel it's running 13.5V even with a load (high-beam/AC/Radio), so it seems like it's regulating and charging...

...but possibly marginal? Everything seems to say 14V +/- is where you want to see it.

That's not the right tool to test a alternator, if you want to see charge cmd rate and actual output rate yes but, that's not a thing on a Mazda 3.

It seems like some of the newer scanners will give you the OE spec. The Launch scanners can have a BT unit hooked up to the battery for testing (this appears in the Icon line, but only the T10 ).

 

[2ndGearRubber]

The battery was a fairly new one (Jan of this year, nice Duralast Gold yadda yadda, but was junk. They swapped it immediately.

By my multimeter and the Autel it's running 13.5V even with a load (high-beam/AC/Radio), so it seems like it's regulating and charging...

...but possibly marginal? Everything seems to say 14V +/- is where you want to see it.



It seems like some of the newer scanners will give you the OE spec. The Launch scanners can have a BT unit hooked up to the battery for testing (this appears in the Icon line, but only the T10 ).

That's the question "seems to say 14v". What's that worth? A Kia can be happy at 12.3, less than a fully charged battery should test for resting voltage. That scrambled my brain the first time I saw it. The Rover yesterday was ~15. Toyota avalon was high 13s.

Your scan tool should provide the target charging voltage and actual voltage, somewhere, in the PCM live data if it's available. Some brands simply don't have a PID for it. A basic test could be, with the car running, voltage drop the B+ post of the alternator to the B+ post of the battery, and the alternator case/engine itself to battery B- post. If those are good, probably .25v or less is still acceptable, your alternator is likely doing as it's told. Ideally sub 0.1v, but IDK how rusty your area is.

 

[HaroRider]

Kingbolen uses launch software and the cheapest Ive seen.

 

[richfinn]

Does this Mazda have a battery monitor sensor on the negative battery cable?

The output voltage can appear low with these smart charge systems, try loading it up with headlamp main beams, heater blower and heated screens and they normally come up to a more traditional value around 14.00v after a minute or so

I always do this before I look at the control side/start volt dropping the main cable and grounds.

It's also worth disconnecting the alternator plug to see if the vehicle actually sets DTCs/or defaults to a higher charging voltage

 

[M635_Guy]

Apologies - I didn't mean to hijack the Icon T7 thread with my incompetency. I'll wrap up below on the distraction with a couple comments there, but on the topical point what I was trying to say was that some of the more traditional tools are built around the structure of the OBDII platform and whatever the various OEM's use to stack their proprietary stuff on top of it. The interface for the scanners is inside out, instead of being more use-case and user driven. Trained/experienced techs probably see the structure I don't.

Kia can be happy at 12.3, less than a fully charged battery should test for resting voltage. That scrambled my brain the first time I saw it. The Rover yesterday was ~15. Toyota avalon was high 13s.

All that made my head ache. What I've gathered would have led me to believe that the electrical system was pretty much the electrical system, and the Kia and the Rover should be chewing up batteries. But somehow that's not the case. I'd **** as a tech.

Your scan tool should provide the target charging voltage and actual voltage, somewhere, in the PCM live data if it's available. Some brands simply don't have a PID for it. A basic test could be, with the car running, voltage drop the B+ post of the alternator to the B+ post of the battery, and the alternator case/engine itself to battery B- post. If those are good, probably .25v or less is still acceptable, your alternator is likely doing as it's told. Ideally sub 0.1v, but IDK how rusty your area is.

Not rusty pretty much at all. Warm enough that we don't use salt and far enough from the shore that it doesn't get us either (but still an easy drive )

Does this Mazda have a battery monitor sensor on the negative battery cable?

I'd have to look, but it seemed like a pretty simple cable on that side, so I sorta doubt it.

The output voltage can appear low with these smart charge systems, try loading it up with headlamp main beams, heater blower and heated screens and they normally come up to a more traditional value around 14.00v after a minute or so

I had the hi-beams, AC and radio going for a bit, and it still sat at 13.5V.

I'll go back with the Autel and see if I can find this stuff in the live data, but I don't think I saw it this afternoon. I might have missed it, but it seems like the kind of thing they'd put in an easier place - why not make some shortcuts to the most-common things???

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Apologies - I didn't mean to hijack the Icon T7 thread with my incompetency. I'll wrap up below on the distraction with a couple comments there, but on the topical point what I was trying to say was that some of the more traditional tools are built around the structure of the OBDII platform and whatever the various OEM's use to stack their proprietary stuff on top of it. The interface for the scanners is inside out, instead of being more use-case and user driven. Trained/experienced techs probably see the structure I don't.


All that made my head ache. What I've gathered would have led me to believe that the electrical system was pretty much the electrical system, and the Kia and the Rover should be chewing up batteries. But somehow that's not the case. I'd **** as a tech.



Not rusty pretty much at all. Warm enough that we don't use salt and far enough from the shore that it doesn't get us either (but still an easy drive )


I'd have to look, but it seemed like a pretty simple cable on that side, so I sorta doubt it.


I had the hi-beams, AC and radio going for a bit, and it still sat at 13.5V.

I'll go back with the Autel and see if I can find this stuff in the live data, but I don't think I saw it this afternoon. I might have missed it, but it seems like the kind of thing they'd put in an easier place - why not make some shortcuts to the most-common things???

On topic- that's why snap on has an excellent interface. The Autel is more like the various factory tools, the snap on tries to organize in a more consistent way between brands. Launch software is a blend of these two ideas. Some stuff never makes sense. Like Chrysler has no misfire detection data. It's a "special function" called Which Cylinder Is Misfiring?. But who'd look in special functions for misfire data?

At a certain point all the modules need listed. For instance the TPMS may be built into the function of the body control module. On a snap on tool they'll usually have a TPMS function which just redirects you to the screen you need. But you can also just go to the BCM directly and find what you need. Autel/launch have the "services" menu but sometimes those tests don't work right in the services menu, but work fine when accessed from the modules functional test screen. Happened to me last week with electronic parking brake on a BMW.


Typically a circuit at max steady state load will move about half the fused value. So a typical 40amp fused blower would have ~20amps constant draw on high. Blower, rear defroster, high beams, all great ways to load up a charging system. If I've learned anything about rules of thumb, it's that they don't exist. It's a PITA because so much stuff falls under the umbrella of an exception, it's like there's more exceptions than followers of the rules.


BTW: You're not alone in "where's this goddamn data pid?!?!". Or service info stating "the module then used logic to perform the function". Great explanation of the circuit design, thanks.

 

[M635_Guy]

Some kind of reverse-lookup mode by regular-language description would be great. The first vendor to have an AI-driven interface might actually kick some **** for a while...

BTW: You're not alone in "where's this goddamn data pid?!?!". Or service info stating "the module then used logic to perform the function". Great explanation of the circuit design, thanks.

That does make me feel a little better. I can't afford (much less justify) a Snap On, so it seems like a Launch model might be a good idea.

I need to look and see if there's any gotcha between how Launch handles/prices updates vs. HF - seems like I read somewhere that said HF had good pricing on updates, but I'd want to know which updates...

(BTW folks - as a result of all this my Autel MX900 is for sale. Used thrice!)

[To close the chapter on the Mazda, Advance Auto's machine read the alternator at 13.7V and declared it just dandy.]

 

[richfinn]

Some kind of reverse-lookup mode by regular-language description would be great. The first vendor to have an AI-driven interface might actually kick some **** for a while...


That does make me feel a little better. I can't afford (much less justify) a Snap On, so it seems like a Launch model might be a good idea.

I need to look and see if there's any gotcha between how Launch handles/prices updates vs. HF - seems like I read somewhere that said HF had good pricing on updates, but I'd want to know which updates...

(BTW folks - as a result of all this my Autel MX900 is for sale. Used thrice!)

[To close the chapter on the Mazda, Advance Auto's machine read the alternator at 13.7V and declared it just dandy.]

One great feature on Launch software based scan tools is the search bar, if you are looking for a particular PID just type in something relatable like "battery, voltage or generator" and it will narrow things down to make selection a bit easier (once you get used to the whacky Chinglish translations).

 

[AJHD]

Unless I find a better option in the meantime, I still plan on picking up the T7.
I'd like to wait for a coupon or sale, but we'll see.

Again, as a DIY these days, I think it will do what I need it to when I happen to need it.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Unless I find a better option in the meantime, I still plan on picking up the T7.
I'd like to wait for a coupon or sale, but we'll see.

Again, as a DIY these days, I think it will do what I need it to when I happen to need it.

Please post about it if you do, information is lacking.

 

[AJHD]

Please post about it if you do, information is lacking.

If it happens, I will.
I've only seen 4 reviews on the HF website, and I don't think any have come up on YT yet.

 

[Wrench97]

Love to know what the updates cost and if you can skip them or have to buy them sequentially.

 

[richfinn]

If it happens, I will.
I've only seen 4 reviews on the HF website, and I don't think any have come up on YT yet.

Eric O at South Main Auto is currently using a T10 on YouTube

 

[casmurbax]

@AJHD did you buy one yet? Anything to report about?​

 

[AJHD]

@AJHD did you buy one yet? Anything to report about?​

Neither. Price dropped to $400 though.