Identify this piece!

[classicJackets]

I'm planning to pick up this piece as well as another one (chop saw) from a guy on Craigslist this week. He doesn't know what it is and I'll take it either way, but looking for some ID on what it could be. Looks a little bit like an old milling machine but I don't quite think that's it. Unfortunately, the gentlemen took a few days to get back to me (email response only ) and I missed out on a vertical, variable speed band saw. Putting it here because I believe it has more to do with fabrication than anything else.
Oh well, free is free whether it all works or not.


Thanks!
Doug

 

[454ragtop]

It's a horizontal mill. Pic is kind of small, may well be more of a production machine or specialized, possibly for milling key seats.
HTH, Jim

 

[longlivepunk]

yeah, looks like a horizontal milling machine to me. Not sure who it would be made by, but it has a slitting saw on it right now. I can't make the picture bigger than the thumbnail for some reason, is there a way we can see a bigger shot?

 

[classicJackets]

Hmm. I just noticed that too. I'll edit the original post and just upload to photobucket. The picture is very small, but I'm hoping to get another picture tomorrow or the next day.

 

[RonnieJ-57]

an arbor mill.

 

[Guster]

If you know the name you may be able to find more info on that horisontal mill here:
http://lathes.co.uk/

 

[larry_g]

I searched here

and did not find one like that . It look to have a clutch on the lower back or maybe a gear selector. Then the big pulley suggests really slow speed. You can call additional pages on the above search but I'm to tired tonight. Good luck with it. With good luck it will have a common taper in the spindle.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[longlivepunk]

Yeah, it's a very small horizontal knee-mill. No idea the make, I don't know all that much about them. Post pictures when you get it! It'll be really interesting to see if there is any info about the makers in the castings.

Edit: Maybe a Diamond? http://www.lathes.co.uk/diamond/

 

[classicJackets]

Longlive,
It does look like the Diamond M20 in this picture. If that's the case, though, then it looks like the CL version is missing quite a few pieces!

 

[Guster]

Some musings: Also agree on it being smaller, about the same size as my Tom Senior M1 with many of the traits of machines from that era(1940’s). I have looked through the US manufacturers though it may have been an import or specifically built for the military. May be missing some covers for the side which does not help with identification though the base and splash tray is fairly unique. Details also changed between manufacturing runs of the same machine as castings were improved to deal with defects or reduce cost.

The splash tray appears cast rather than fabricated sheetmetal – level of mass production but also cost saving as castings were cheaper than steel dedicated for the making of armaments during certain periods. The v-belts suggests around 1930's onwards. The pulley arrangement indicates lower speeds like the back gear on a lathe. Seeing them inside the main casting with a motor fitted in the base is unusual for older machines as they usually ran external with side mounted counter-shafts and external mounted motors – a hangover from older line shaft driven design. This concept of building things into the casting is also indicative of design approach of 1930's and onwards.

 

[Guster]

Longlive,
It does look like the Diamond M20 in this picture. If that's the case, though, then it looks like the CL version is missing quite a few pieces!

The OP's machine is a little different in some ways. Other than some of the aesthetical features the countershaft/backgear is inside the column with the large pulley in a housing at the lower back and a belt running to a motor in the base stand. Not to say that is not a newer version of the Diamond M20 which is not unlikely. A limited run or a company going under or cut back in a merger just on product release may have seen a few sold but not continued.

Provided the machine is in shape or reconditionable the only thing that would make or break it is tooling - specifically the spindle taper. Unfortunately that period also had a few odd tapers that are long discontinued. However Morse Taper was common in smaller hobby size machines.

 

[LargeJames]

It's a horizontal mill. Pic is kind of small, may well be more of a production machine or specialized, possibly for milling key seats.
HTH, Jim

Yep.
Exactly what it is, Keyseat cutter.

 

[longlivepunk]

It's definitely not the same machine, the machine above doesn't seem to have the jackshaft in the upper housing, and the castings are different. But I'm thinking it might be that maker based on a few features like the size, knobs, over-arm, overarm support, shape of the upper casting, etc. Maybe it was a budget version or specifically made?

 

[classicJackets]

Turns out to be a Diamond. I'll keep it short here, but I also got a free vise. Couldn't fit the chop saw in the same truckload.



Look for a thread to be started in the "Vintage tool" section soon.
Doug

 

[longlivepunk]

Congrats, Doug! I'll be watching for that thread for sure.

 

[expressline99]

Oh wow great score for free! I would have even paid. lol
Looks great!

 

[zkling]

Good deal, although they aren't the most practical machines for the small shop. If you have the space and ambition you will learn quite a bit. What bandsaw did the guy have?

Looks like it is missing parts of the X axis feed. Cutter cost will be a shocker compared to what you paid for the machine.

 

[longlivepunk]

I literally just threw out 2 buckets worth of HSS cutters for horizontal mills at work since they're basically obsolete. They were mostly brand-new. It kind of sucked, I spent thoe whole time wishing I had a machine I could use them on.

 

[classicJackets]

Damn! Haha threw out as in gone forever and ever or still able to be pulled back out?
Lol

 

[Guster]

I literally just threw out 2 buckets worth of HSS cutters for horizontal mills at work since they're basically obsolete. They were mostly brand-new. It kind of sucked, I spent thoe whole time wishing I had a machine I could use them on.

I've been slowly collecting them while I recondition my machine. The nice cutters go for stupid prices on the 2nd hand market and resellers sell them one at a time knowing this. Either that or they are much too large in diameter. They are also usually dull and rusty which is not a problem for most but still a rip-off. My best deals have come from wrongly categorised or mislabeled auctions and it has taken 2 years just to collect the 20 or so basic cutters I have now. Still want to collect a 1" arbor and also have to make a MT3 shell endmill toolholder as they are long since obsolete over here.

ClassicJackets - remove that arbor! You'll hate it of it gets bent while moving or storing. Especially if it is an odd taper. Should be a drawbar on the back of the spindle - loosen that and tap it out. May take a sharp tap to shock it loose depending on how long it has been in there. Use a soft metal bar so as to not damage the threaded end of the taper if it takes more than one or two taps to get it out. Again a short, sharp tap to shock it loose, you don't want to damage the spindle bearings or other precision surfaces in the process.

 

[bobss396]

They're usually set up for gang-milling slots and things like that. The arbor should come with a variety of spacers that are very accurate in length.

 

[classicJackets]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281354

Here's the new thread I started on this piece. It's pretty well not completed as I noted, but it's upright and "safe" for now.
Doug