Identifying Quality Light Fixtures

[jives]

In my observation there is nothing on GJ that sparks more of the quality vs. cheapness debate than LED lighting, probably because of the overwhelming flood of import LED shop lights and high bays.

Often the specs of the "quality" vs. the "cheap" seem to be the same. 5 yrs, 50,000 hrs, same CRI, similar lumens/watt, similar photometrics. . .etc, etc.. They can also be similarly UL listed. So, other than price, what should we look for?

Consider the 100W, 13000 lumen UFO below for $59.90. DLC, UL, Phillips LEDs, Dimmable. What else do we need to know?

https://static.lepro.com/media/cata...6b2f14c22ec4cc8cb93c665cad2/f/i/file_22_1.jpg

 

[yeldogt]

It all depends on what you can put up with ... when CFL came out I would see them in lamp posts and other outdoor fixtures so bright they would blind from the street. What do you think they had inside? Obviously -- they were OK with the CFL.

It's the same with LED --- some people can put up with the blinding single source -- others can't. It's like people who put LED bulbs in old cars thinking they make an improvement -- or make the car look newer ..... just the reverse is true.

A big bright light is fine for occasional use -- like a shed so you don't kill yourself getting something out at night. It's not nice light to work under

 

[Chem1]

I too am interested in what those of you with experience have to say. I am getting ready to pull the trigger on lights for my new 40x64x12 building.

 

[jives]

A big bright light is fine for occasional use -- like a shed so you don't kill yourself getting something out at night. It's not nice light to work under

I'm not sure I make myself clear. I am not trying to decide if a 13,000 lu fixture is right or not, just trying to figure out how to determine if a particular fixture is quality or not.

Put differently, the Lithonia 100W UFO below is more than double the cost of the fixture in my first post. It has no different stats on warranty, CRI, etc, etc. So, why is it more expensive and how can I tell if the cost is worth it?

 

[mcbane]

You wont know if the lights are similar in function without finding a review of both or testing out one of each on your own.

The one difference that is immediately obvious is that Lithonia is owned by a multi-billion dollar company that is listed on the stock exchange while "Lighting Ever" on the surface is a fly by night operation, operating out of a rental office. So while both warranties may be for 5 years, only one of the two companies is likely to have the wherewithal to make good on the warranty in the event that there is a systemic issue with the lights.

 

[Dagny]

I install a lot of highbays I hang several lights up for customers to pick from and have several different kinds in my shop. I recommend something with a diffuser a real popular fixture is the patriot 22000 lumen from menards less than 100.00 dollars there are other brands but they are all made in china these fixtures are around 14 x24 inches.

 

[machinist_brett]

I bought some random Chinese LED flood lights off Amazon that have slowly gotten dimmer over the last 9 months or so. Still fairly bright but definitely diminishing.

I say that as it seems like everything else from the random brands... Sub-par performance at a price you can't complain about.

Tag for more info as I'm getting ready to start on a 40x50x14 building and I don't want to do the lighting twice.

 

[cybrdyke]

There are 3 basic components to a LED fixture, the body, the driver and the diodes. You can count the lens (or other optics) as a 4th item, if your fixture has one. The driver and diodes are most likely not made by the manufacturer of the fixture.
I'll focus on the UFO style of fixture, since that's what you've pictured above. Starting with the body, this is generally some sort of aluminum or alloy, painted or powder coated. The primary function is to be a heat sink. The higher quality metal, finish and design it has, the better it dissipates heat. The better it dissipates heat, the better the other components can function and the longer they'll last.
The driver is the black box that runs the diodes. Quality of drivers from various manufacturers runs from excellent to complete garbage. You can guess which drivers the really cheap fixtures use. Legit driver manufacturers are Universal, Philips, Fulham, Lifud, and more. Most internet sellers wont tell you who's drivers are in their fixtures. Why? Because they dont know, and also because the next batch that they get from China will likely have a different brand, or a mixed batch. Cheap drivers cause flicker, both visual and non-visual, run much hotter, and fail after about 50,000 hours.
The diodes are the little light sources. Quality of diodes from various manufacturers runs from exceptional to garbage. Again, you can guess what level the really cheap fixtures use. Legit diode manufacturers are Nichia, Bridgelux, Cree and Philips. Using the example UFO posted by the OP, notice how hard they push the fact that they use Philips diodes. They're trying waaay too hard to legitimize their UFO. All diode manufacturers make several "grades" of product from premium to junk, including Philips. Also, these manufacturers sell their blemished and "seconds" that didn't pass their Quality Control process to the junk manufacturers. AND...I sh*t you not, these manufacturers regularly report dumpster divers grabbing rejected diodes for use in junk fixtures. So, when you see a super cheap fixture claiming that they use "X brand" diodes, dont get too excited.
Cheap diodes will fade rapidly. One company was sued not long ago because their diodes diminished by 80% over just 1000 hours! Cheap diodes will be "off" in the color that they're supposed to be and might not even match from fixture to fixture.
I hope all of that helps. Name brand lighting manufacturers make products for professional use. They aren't too concerned about the DIY or residential garage business. If they get caught using junky components, they'll be shunned by the pros and that will cost them tens of millions of dollars. The internet sellers have no such concern. Their mission is to sell junk to the unknowing. No one is more invested in selling garbage to consumers as an internet supplier. If they go out of business today, they'll open up under a different name tomorrow.
Good luck,
CD

Edit: If you want a decent level of value/quality, where you should look is at 2nd tier lighting manufacturers. These are legit manufacturers that are not the really big guys. They need to bring quality stuff at affordable prices to the pros. Look for names light TechBrite, Eiko, Satco, Maxlite, TechnoLed, Rab, etc.

 

[jives]

Thank you, CD. I really appreciate the time it took to write out that reply. It is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for.

The GJ folks come through again.

 

[yeldogt]

Another thing I will add is the general race to the bottom that is a direct result of the big box stores.

It's two fold. 1. The big box stores sell on profit. 2. They limit what's viewable. Much of the general public look to them as having lots of choices .. They don't ..mostly because of #1.

This is true of almost every product they sell. Often, products are made for them .. not available to others ... and built for price.

The consumer has become less and less educated .. even, with more and more information around. Unless you are exposed to quality stuff -- you don't even know it is available.

Cybrdyke is in the business .. so he know the score. I will add that i have had both good and bad Satco products ... Rab as well ..although I think in general they make decent stuff for the $$

 

[e36jon]

Greetings

I'm not 'in the industry', but I do work in the product design world so I have some experience that I feel is relevant and somewhat different than other views.

- Big companies have way more overhead than the small direct-to-consumer folks. 'Way' meaning 100 times and maybe 1000 times more overhead. There's a HUGE amount of structure in a big company, from big buildings filled with lots of workers and many layers of management to manage them all. Plus advertising, plus catalogs, plus sales people, plus, plus, plus. My opinion is that the bulk of the price difference is taken up with this stuff.

- Yes, much of the 'pro' stuff is better built, but not all of it. I think a sweeping acceptance of big name equipment doesn't look back at all of the times when big companies got it wrong. (Sorry, a bunch of examples would help here but my coffee hasn't landed. Think auto recalls (Takata airbags), think synthetic stucco for homes, etc.).

- The little guys do often use lower spec components. In 20 years of working with China on manufacturing products I have never seen or heard of anyone dumpster-diving for garbage grade components. I have seen lots of 2nd or 3rd grade components (Graded for different qualities like color fidelity within that particular diodes potential performance. Sometimes called 'binning'.) though, which are still more than adequate for my garage lighting. Many of the other components aren't different between name-brand and cheap stuff.

- My personal experience with cheap vs. name brand is that the name brand payed more attention to cooling (https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277492). I recently bought some 10X cheaper fixtures with the same performance from Amazon and they weighed a fraction of the Cree fixtures.) Cooling has the largest impact on lifespan. That said, what's long enough? It's easy to lose track of how far all of this has come in a short period of time.

Cheers,

Jon