wrenches, sockets and ratchets would definitely be the bread and butter I would imagine, second would come screwdrivers and pliers. Toptul makes all of these very well and offers some hard to find size wrenches (lengthwise) at very affordable prices. I wouldn't pay for anything you couldn't directly compete with someone else for, like the gearwrenches already mentioned. Doubtful you could beat their sale price enough to draw customers.
If Toptul Made a Return...
- Thread starter redvalkyrie
- Start date
Vinko
Well-known member
I think this is a very good point. As much as I like this forum and the guys who contribute to it, I wouldn't stake my money (or marketing of a product) based upon whether or not people express interest here. Seen quite a few times where everyone and their mother is interested until it's time to put up the dough.
@ guys worried about warranty: I don't get this. I never buy a tool based upon warranty. I think warranty anxiety is over-done.
Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
True. A warranty is like a condom, It gives you a false sense of security while you're being screwed.
As I have said before , I would rather have a well made tool that won't fail in the first place, than a lifetime of failed tools but, that's just me.
JayL
Well-known member
I wonder why Toptul itself is not making an aggressive entry effort in the US market. Here with us it's becoming another choice tool for some car dealers which is a step into Koken territory.
Cantause
Well-known member
I agree with you, of course I don't see it with my own eyes but it looks like not many people know about Toptul in the US, here in europe I've never seen their tools anywhere...
For me, when you play the "lifetime warranty" card, you need a minimum of marketing and presence, a warranty without a place to have your tool serviced is strange.
It would also be a good thing to have a dispatch center in the US, have to wait 3 months for a container to arrive is really long for a dealer and a customer...
It's a pitty, if their tools would be available easily here in Europe I would buy their 26 pcs Super torque wrench as a second set. I considered to buy from thetoolchest.ca, prices are nice but the rates of the Canadian post are really high, 160$ for xpress (6 days) or surface rate for 82$ but usually take 6 weeks to arrive in Belgium.
A US shop with worldwide shipping would have a big advantage with USPS and their priority mail flat rate box which usually arrive here in less than a week and cost 56$ (up to 20 pds). However I don't know if there is a lot of demand outside of the US, I personnaly don't care about warranty so I would buy from such a shop...
Good luck!
JayL
Well-known member
Toptul warranty here is not so great also. They leave it to the retailers to take care. It would have been good if Toptul itself has a presence and can be contacted directly to sort out warranty issues that may arise with their retailers. Immediately or by them itself.
I think they will have a tough time competing with GW in the US market not to mention the other manufacturers.
I think they will have a tough time competing with GW in the US market not to mention the other manufacturers.
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caper
Well-known member
I have no interest in buying from anywhere other than established companies.Too many fly by night chinese backed retailers online now.Most of them selling substandard **** for more than it's worth and then disappearing when you need customer support.Most of what Toptul sells is the same as what's available in Princess Auto here in Canada.Slight cosmetic differences but from the same plant IMO.I'm not bashing the PA stuff,I have lots of it and most of it has been abused and keeps working.But I'm not interested in mail ordering a higher polished version of the same tools for more money.
That sounds true. Also, since it's a discount line of tools really, it'll be price sensitive as all get-out. Also also, it's a fairly large line so the inventory would be a big expense.
Just thinking out loud, and this is probably hijacking the thread so mea culpa, if I wanted to fool around in the retail tool business, I'd probably pick something premium and relatively unavailable without a huge line...let's say NWS pliers...and offer them through Amazon. With a few telephone calls, I expect that you could find out if the discount from the manfacturer plus the vigorish that Amazon skims off would make it all worthwhile. Basically, I suppose you'd just need a checkbook, the ability to ship a box of pliers from your garage, some stock photographs, and $10k-$20k of inventory (???, who knows???) to get started. If you break even, just view it as business college.
eBay doesn't strike me as a good channel since, at least personally, I only look for deals there.
just because it came up...when my xtra long combo wrench set showed up, 2 had a finish problem (one bad, one small nick). i took a picture and emailed it to thetoolchest.ca customer service, got a response back either that night or the next morning, and they shipped out replacements that day, on their dime. inventory is clearly an issue, but i don't doubt they will take care of any failed items as promised.
as others have said, i do think the warranty issue is a little overblown. i certainly understand some concern, but its certainly not enough for me to NOT buy toptul; the price / performance ratio is just too good, and the rarity of broken tools for me makes it not all that important.
i'm very much looking forward to receiving some toptul ratchets and comparing them with my gearwrench. as gearwrench has really become widely available, with a diverse product line, and with very high quality, toptul becomes less exciting to me unless they can also provide access to consistent levels of inventory in north america.
ahm
midnightcruise
Well-known member
True. A warranty is like a condom, It gives you a false sense of security while you're being screwed.
As I have said before , I would rather have a well made tool that won't fail in the first place, than a lifetime of failed tools but, that's just me.
I used to think this way till I owned tools for 25+ years and have had them repaired/replaced several times by Snapon.
Screwdrivers are just one example where the warranty has paid for tools over the years. Cheapies are use once and throw away... and Craftsman doesn't always get the job done (I have had several c'man drivers break then picked up a Sanpon and no problems).
Snapon has even repaired my fathers ratchets from the 50's (that are now in my box).
Could be that the new generation of mechanics are not thinking for the long haul... but there is $ ******* in re-purchasing and/or warranty replacement. Having the tool truck come up and just getting you stuff fixed/replaced is worth quite a bit in a production environment...
If Toptul wants to make it in the US market then will have to find a way to make good on the warranty or make the tools extremely cheap. We already have dozens of cheap tool makers out there... don't need another one.
I really hope Toptul goes the high road and sticks with quality and finds a way to back their product. I do like the feel of their wrenches and ratchets.
wornoutoldman
Well-known member
Not sure if this belongs here but it's interesting and offers some insight on quality levels:
15mm torque comparison(GEDORE)
TOPTUL VS MATADOR 13mm
SNAP-ON--13mm
13mm torque comparison(HAZET)
I got these from Toptul. Please form your own opinions about the quality. I do not own or sell any of these tools. I was fact finding. Look good to my eyes!
15mm torque comparison(GEDORE)
TOPTUL VS MATADOR 13mm
SNAP-ON--13mm
13mm torque comparison(HAZET)
I got these from Toptul. Please form your own opinions about the quality. I do not own or sell any of these tools. I was fact finding. Look good to my eyes!
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SMKS
Well-known member
Not sure if this belongs here but it's interesting and offers some insight on quality levels:
15mm torque comparison(GEDORE)
TOPTUL VS MATADOR 13mm
SNAP-ON--13mm
13mm torque comparison(HAZET)
Do you have a link where we can see bigger pictures?
I believe one of those pics is from thetoolchest.ca site, but the others don't appear there.
interesting !
in this test the Hazet wrench scored 184 NM on the open end and 240 NM on the box end without breaking. I wonder why the Hazet wrench in the Toptul test scored only about 80 NM ??? And what means "breaking" ?
here snap-on
in this test the Hazet wrench scored 184 NM on the open end and 240 NM on the box end without breaking. I wonder why the Hazet wrench in the Toptul test scored only about 80 NM ??? And what means "breaking" ?
here snap-on
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gatewaysysop
Well-known member
Interesting, but I am highly suspicious of such tests. Not knowing how many trials were done or if this was simply a one off, and whom conducted the tests (conflict of interest?) makes it difficulty to believe or draw meaningful inference. Seeing the different numbers in theses posts coming from different sources gives me pause and bears out my point. 
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wornoutoldman
Well-known member
I received those photos directly from toptul. Sorry about the large size.
superautobacs
Well-known member
From the first day those photos were posted on Toptul's own website, and later, the Toochest.ca website (with additional brands), I was skeptical, and only took it with a grain of salt. I see that they've now added Gedore and Hazet into the mix as well.
Like Monte points out, it doesn't take a genious to figure out that the numbers and pictures just don't seem to add up to provide any conclusive evidence. There's discrepancy with the provided numbers and the corresponding visual evidence (or the lack of).
I should post some pictures of some break tests that were done by an independant facility, tool
Like Monte points out, it doesn't take a genious to figure out that the numbers and pictures just don't seem to add up to provide any conclusive evidence. There's discrepancy with the provided numbers and the corresponding visual evidence (or the lack of).
I should post some pictures of some break tests that were done by an independant facility, tool
OP
redvalkyrie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
- Messages
- 423
Yeah...what useful information do those tests actually demostrate? The only way to break a wrench from Toptul, Snap-On, Hazet, etc--would be to use more torque than humanly possible without a cheater pipe and even then the fastener would break first. In any case, you've voided the warranty and grossly abused the wrench.
I believe the test to a certain extent, but a single test doesn't really give a full picture - what is the variation in strength on a large number of wrenches? Also, a lot of manufacturers have a lot of different models of wrench in their offerings, and the thickness of the wrench does vary. My fathers Gearwrenches are around 20% thinner than mine - same manufacturere, different model, I only found out when I tried every wrench around to get one thin enough to fit in a spot. And there's no doubt that has a great bearing on strength.
I do quite appreciate having a number applied to how strong the wrenches are - it tells us that roughly speaking open ends are less than half as strong as box ends, and that a fairly modest sized wrench can take over 100 ft.lb. of torque - both very useful to know when feeling how much you should force you should reasonably apply before you start to encroach on your safety factor...
I do quite appreciate having a number applied to how strong the wrenches are - it tells us that roughly speaking open ends are less than half as strong as box ends, and that a fairly modest sized wrench can take over 100 ft.lb. of torque - both very useful to know when feeling how much you should force you should reasonably apply before you start to encroach on your safety factor...
Interesting, but I am highly suspicious of such tests. Not knowing how many trials were done or if this was simply a one off, and whom conducted the tests (conflict of interest?) makes it difficulty to believe or draw meaningful inference. Seeing the different numbers in theses posts coming from different sources bears gives me pause and bears out my point.
I agree, I don't buy it. The only thing I see is they need to learn some better test procedures. Looks like they dug the Matador out of the trash. Their wrenches also appear to play up to the competition. I am guessing they did a lot of cherry picking.
84bimmer
Well-known member
I think that if they test 10 of the same wrenches, the numbers will all be different. Maybe drastically, who knows. These test results may be an average of their tests. Or they may be strictly showing results that would be beneficial to their advertising. I think they are telling the truth here, just maybe not the whole truth. I would like to know exactly what their testing procedure is, and how do they pick out these results. Obviously we all would like to know. But I'm sure their average customer couldn't give two shits less. They want quick information. And I think this works as good advertising. This would have been a great topic for another thread.
Vinko
Well-known member
Very good point. One essential criterium for this test would be consistency in manufacturing. In the past, this has been a problem in China and Taiwan. Less so (now) in Taiwan, from what I hear.
Tatsuya
Well-known member
Wouldn't be interested. They look great and all, but if it's not USA made, I'll go the cheap route. I won't use the tools for a living.
I would like to see their pliers test where they beat all others like Channellock and Knipex and screwdriver test where they most likely beat PB Swiss, Snap-On and all others ! Must be the best tools in the whole world !!!
OP
redvalkyrie
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2006
- Messages
- 423
Their proline pliers are pretty damn good--as good in fit and finish as my Channellocks, Knipex, and Wihas...
They certainly make excellent ratchets...I believe they make the Facom's Palm Control ratchets as I have an exact duplicate of the Facom Palm Control ratchet but marked Toptul. Interestly, you can no longer purchase the Toptul version.
They certainly make excellent ratchets...I believe they make the Facom's Palm Control ratchets as I have an exact duplicate of the Facom Palm Control ratchet but marked Toptul. Interestly, you can no longer purchase the Toptul version.
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mikester
Well-known member
Please dont tell me that Mike Wren is going out of business. I ordered a bunch of stuff from him but there were a few things that he didnt have that I hoped to get on his next delivery.
gatewaysysop
Well-known member
And here we have not one but two fine examples of why a single data point means absolutely nothing when it comes to drawing inference about a population or, in this case, brand of wrenches. Thank you Monte! 
Welcome to Garage Journal. Pull up a chair and stay a while.
You should edit your profile and add a location so we know where you're from.
motofool33
Well-known member
Wow resurrected from the dead 4 year old thread
FMC1959
Well-known member
If you can ship to the USA, I am sure you would get some interest on this forum. Let us know your location, website, catalog/prices and other relevant info.
espyking83
Well-known member
Amazon would be great!
I'd check out some pliers and ratcheting wrenches for starters.
I'd check out some pliers and ratcheting wrenches for starters.
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espyking83
Well-known member
I'd probably spend a **** load of money, all kinds of stuff on the site.
espyking83
Well-known member
Well ****
espyking83
Well-known member
So are they around? Visted their site and they looked nice
Sorry,
Im in Europa and shipping Toptul out of your country is not allowed. I don´t understand why nobody start selling these tool in USA ( with stock)