I'm Losing Sleep Over Bench Grinders (Long rant alert)

[btdobie]

Let me preface this by begging you not to laugh, but I don't own a bench grinder.

I've gotten by so far by using other tools or taking parts into work with me and grinding them there. I keep intending to buy one, but every time I try, I can't find one I like. Whether I'm looking at the cheapest of Chinese imports or the big brands such as DeWalt or Jet, it's the same story, endless reviews of units that were shipped with unacceptable run out, motors that quit after a few months, weak motors, and generally cheap production. I've become used to the fact that most consumer tools these days are built to a price and are essentially disposable. However, I have generally found that as long as you are willing to pay there are companies out there who still do things the right way (SK, Proto, Mac, SO, ECT) and I try to reward these companies with my business. Unfortunately finding such a company for bench griders proved to be far more difficult than I would have expected for such a simple tool. I have finally determined that I have 2 options.

Metabo: This is a German company, but they now manufacture in China, but so far people seem to agree that their quality hasn't suffered much from the move. They can be had for $200. The catch is that US size grinding wheels don't fit which is a deal breaker for me.

Baldor: Specifically the Baldor Big Red. This grinder is everything I wanted: built with heavy cast metal parts, well balanced, backed by endless glowing reviews, and generally seems like the last bench grinder I would ever buy. The only problem is the $300 price tag. For a professional this would be a no brainer; for a hobbiest the fact that I'm even considering it at that price makes me question my own sanity.

So now I'm stuck in the middle. On one side I have my desire to wage a one man war against this disposable tool fad by spending my money with companies that make good quality tools. On the other side the logical part of my brain says I can trash 5 Harbor Freight bench grinders over my lifetime and still be out less money. I also have to face the reality that I will probably only use this thing once a week at most.

So as I continue to wrestle with this decision I remain without a bench grinder. I just find myself in a state of disbelief that I am this stuck on a decision about a bench grinder. For cryin' out loud it's just a motor with the shaft coming out both ends and a cover/base. Honestly though, I think the bench grinder is just a scape goat for my general displeasure with the current state of the tool industry. So many people buy these cheap tools that the makers of quality tools have to charge increasingly ridiculous prices to keep their profit margines up which in turn pushes more people to buy cheap tools. The cycle just goes on and on until only professionals can justify the cost of quality tools. I think we have already hit that point with power tools, but I think we'll still get a couple more decades out of the hand tool industry. Maybe if I procrastinate long enough I can pick a bench grinder up for a couple bucks at a garage sale. At that price, I won't really care about the quality.

 

[sberry]

I have a pretty extensive shop. I actually have a heavy Baldor in my storage but don't really bother and the only time I use one is to touch a drill but or mostly simple wire wheel a bolt or pipe fitting and do everything else hand held. I am so used to it that I just don't use one and is a tool wouldn't even be on my short list.
A wire is nice as I said for used fittings and bolts worth cleaning. Bolts are hard with hand held.

 

[Shootinok]

Are you opposed to used?
If that's an option - Craigslist man.
I, like you, am so disheartened by the current state of manufacturing in the US. I can not bring myself to buy junk assembled by exploited people then shipped here and marked up.

Thanks to this place though - I now have a really nice OLD craftsman block that I wouldn't have even known existed without this website.
I've been trying to contact a guy that has an old Stanley 7" listed but he has not replied to my inquiries.

I did buy an old Taiwan made 8" but that's because it's mounted on a massive old B&D base that I offered to pay the guys full price for and he could keep the grinder. He said take em both or none - so in my mind it was essentially free.
That old unit actually runs real nice and it's powerful.

I keep my eye on CL very regularly for good old USA made tools.

 

[btdobie]

I have a pretty extensive shop. I actually have a heavy Baldor in my storage but don't really bother and the only time I use one is to touch a drill but or mostly simple wire wheel a bolt or pipe fitting and do everything else hand held. I am so used to it that I just don't use one and is a tool wouldn't even be on my short list.
A wire is nice as I said for used fittings and bolts worth cleaning. Bolts are hard with hand held.

When I'm at home, I usually find a way to do things with an angle or die grinder as well. At work though, the bench grinder is usually my go to. I have never really thought about why, but I think it's because I am usually dealing with smaller parts so it is easier to manuver the part around the grinder than the grinder around the part.

When I have to do something to a bolt, I stick the head in a bench vise.

 

[btdobie]

Are you opposed to used?
If that's an option - Craigslist man.
I, like you, am so disheartened by the current state of manufacturing in the US. I can not bring myself to buy junk assembled by exploited people then shipped here and marked up.

Thanks to this place though - I now have a really nice OLD craftsman block that I wouldn't have even known existed without this website.
I've been trying to contact a guy that has an old Stanley 7" listed but he has not replied to my inquiries.

I did buy an old Taiwan made 8" but that's because it's mounted on a massive old B&D base that I offered to pay the guys full price for and he could keep the grinder. He said take em both or none - so in my mind it was essentially free.
That old unit actually runs real nice and it's powerful.

I keep my eye on CL very regularly for good old USA made tools.

I've been keeping my eye on Craigslist. Infact the the CL tool section is a daily stop for me even if I'm not looking for something specific. So far though I have only seen more modern stuff. If I keep watching though, something may come up.

Good luck with the Stanley

 

[macgee]

I just got this great running old Stanley for $10 so there is hope for you as well. Keep looking

Having said that, I much prefer a belt grinder; I find them way better than a traditional grinder and haven't looked back.

 

[2oolhound]

I bought a couple used ones on a pedestal for $80. A 6" and an 8". It was from a storage locker so no trying them out either. Got home (40 miles away) and found the 8" had bad bearings. I live in a non industrial town and the only bearings I could find were near $40. As I laid my money on the counter I looked beside me and saw a brand new chinese 8' grinder on sale for $45.00.

I'd procrastinate and get a cheap garage sale one if I were you.

 

[1982fxr]

Buy an old American made one, baldor, Craftsman, wissota, Doerr etc

Or a new Baldor.

The end.

 

[WWheeler]

I just today brought home a Dewalt DW758 8" Bench Grinder that was $102 at Home Depot after $25 off sale that's still going on thru 12-23 (my local HDs don't carry it - I ordered it free ship to store) and it seems very nice so far to me, but I haven't even had the chance to put it to use yet and even if I did I don't have much experience with better models to compare it to. I can tell you it's a huge beast compared to the Wen 6" bench grinder I've been using for a decade or so now.

It does have a tiny bit of wobble to it but I suspect I just need to dress the wheels a bit. I'm almost sure that's all it needs, but I'm still waiting on a diamond wheel dresser I ordered to show up.

I also just last week won an ebay auction for $69 for a Craftsman 3/4 HP block grinder (closer to $100 w/ shipping). I posted about it here. From the pics provided it looks really clean, perhaps hardly used, but it's missing wheels, tool rests, and eye shields, and it's not here yet so I don't yet know whether it was worth getting it or not. Even assuming it does run as good as described (I sure hope so) I'll still have to get through the holidays before I'll have time and money to get it going but once I do I'm planning on doing a post comparing the two machines.

 

[Thumper68]

PM sent

 

[454ragtop]

When looking at grinders, always remember, good grinders have cast wheel guards, not stamped tin.

 

[6PTsocket]

I bought a couple used ones on a pedestal for $80. A 6" and an 8". It was from a storage locker so no trying them out either. Got home (40 miles away) and found the 8" had bad bearings. I live in a non industrial town and the only bearings I could find were near $40. As I laid my money on the counter I looked beside me and saw a brand new chinese 8' grinder on sale for $45.00.

I'd procrastinate and get a cheap garage sale one if I were you.

Many of us face a shortage of industrial parts from local sources. It is a combination of loss of domestic industry and the way business is done today. A supplier can reach a lot more people on line. I would think you might have done better buying on line, even with shipping. Sometimes you can get lucky on eBay. I have heard the name Accubearing mentioned on a few threads.

Are you opposed to used?
If that's an option - Craigslist man.
I, like you, am so disheartened by the current state of manufacturing in the US. I can not bring myself to buy junk assembled by exploited people then shipped here and marked up.

Thanks to this place though - I now have a really nice OLD craftsman block that I wouldn't have even known existed without this website.
I've been trying to contact a guy that has an old Stanley 7" listed but he has not replied to my inquiries.

I did buy an old Taiwan made 8" but that's because it's mounted on a massive old B&D base that I offered to pay the guys full price for and he could keep the grinder. He said take em both or none - so in my mind it was essentially free.
That old unit actually runs real nice and it's powerful.

I keep my eye on CL very regularly for good old USA made tools.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[6PTsocket]

I am no fan of imported stuff but we had a Dayton (Grainger) grinder on the bench at work that was used and abused and it worked fine. They are an industrial supplier and bring in a better grade of Chinese **** than HF. I have an old Craftsman 6" that is no prize. I find myself using the belt sander and rarely use the grinder.

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[OccupantRJ]

I have a pretty extensive shop. I actually have a heavy Baldor in my storage but don't really bother and the only time I use one is to touch a drill but or mostly simple wire wheel a bolt or pipe fitting and do everything else hand held. I am so used to it that I just don't use one and is a tool wouldn't even be on my short list.
A wire is nice as I said for used fittings and bolts worth cleaning. Bolts are hard with hand held.

I agree with sberry. I have several bench grinders that I bought used from the Craftsman block grinder to Tiawan imports with private label. I have used as large as 12 inch models. All do the job just fine as the job is sharpening or wire brushing, not grinding. I am a machinist and the last thing I want to do on a bench grinder is mass metal removal. Dangerous as hell grinding smaller pieces. Belt grinders and hand held grinders even down to the level of a Dremel are way ahead in that game. So in short, I personally think bench grinders are way over rated other than using one for sharpening tools off hand or cleaning parts. A green stone on one end, an aluminum oxide stone on the other for sharpening, another unit with wire brushes on each end.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I just got this great running old Stanley for $10 so there is hope for you as well. Keep looking

Having said that, I much prefer a belt grinder; I find them way better than a traditional grinder and haven't looked back.

I have both these units at work using them for the last 28 years daily. Both of them are good tools. I recently found one of the belt grinders and bought it for $25 to restore for my home shop. It has taken me years to find that particular style old school that I could get my hands on. I even lucked up and got a few new old stock extra parts with it.

 

[Infinia]

So as I continue to wrestle with this decision I remain without a bench grinder. I just find myself in a state of disbelief that I am this stuck on a decision about a bench grinder. For cryin' out loud it's just a motor with the shaft coming out both ends and a cover/base. Honestly though, I think the bench grinder is just a scape goat for my general displeasure with the current state of the tool industry. So many people buy these cheap tools that the makers of quality tools have to charge increasingly ridiculous prices to keep their profit margines up which in turn pushes more people to buy cheap tools. The cycle just goes on and on until only professionals can justify the cost of quality tools. I think we have already hit that point with power tools, but I think we'll still get a couple more decades out of the hand tool industry. Maybe if I procrastinate long enough I can pick a bench grinder up for a couple bucks at a garage sale. At that price, I won't really care about the quality.

It's a lot like fishing, you never catch them when youre trying too hard.
I believe we all get the destiny we deserve, don't force stuff to happen.
Nope, tools are historically very inexpensive these days! Find an old Sears Catalog apply a currency inflation calculator,
Lighten up dude... you must blow a gasket watching the TV news

 

[Know Wosad]

Order a 1.5 HP 3400 rpm Baldor and go get some rest.

 

[btdobie]

Having said that, I much prefer a belt grinder; I find them way better than a traditional grinder and haven't looked back.

You actually just reminded me that my dad has an old Delta belt sander that I don't think he uses anymore. Maybe I should see what he wants for it.

I just today brought home a Dewalt DW758 8" Bench Grinder that was $102 at Home Depot after $25 off sale that's still going on thru 12-23 (my local HDs don't carry it - I ordered it free ship to store) and it seems very nice so far to me, but I haven't even had the chance to put it to use yet and even if I did I don't have much experience with better models to compare it to. I can tell you it's a huge beast compared to the Wen 6" bench grinder I've been using for a decade or so now.

It does have a tiny bit of wobble to it but I suspect I just need to dress the wheels a bit. I'm almost sure that's all it needs, but I'm still waiting on a diamond wheel dresser I ordered to show up.

Another thing to check on is the spacer behind the wheel. Some people were complaining that it was just a stamped washer and not machined flat, so the grinding wheel isn't able to sit flat against it.

I am no fan of imported stuff but we had a Dayton (Grainger) grinder on the bench at work that was used and abused and it worked fine. They are an industrial supplier and bring in a better grade of Chinese **** than HF. I have an old Craftsman 6" that is no prize. I find myself using the belt sander and rarely use the grinder.

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I agree there are definitely different grades of Chinese **** available. Getting g a good unit sometimes involves a little luck though.

It's a lot like fishing, you never catch them when youre trying too hard.
I believe we all get the destiny we deserve, don't force stuff to happen.
Nope, tools are historically very inexpensive these days! Find an old Sears Catalog apply a currency inflation calculator,
Lighten up dude... you must blow a gasket watching the TV news

I agree tools are much cheaper today than in the past, but we've paid for that in the qaulity department in many cases. I am actually much more optimistic about the hand tool market as there are still several good brands available and some are even somewhat affordable. Good power tools on the other hand seem to be really difficult to get at a reasonable price.

 

[6PTsocket]

I have both these units at work using them for the last 28 years daily. Both of them are good tools. I recently found one of the belt grinders and bought it for $25 to restore for my home shop. It has taken me years to find that particular style old school that I could get my hands on. I even lucked up and got a few new old stock extra parts with it.

Isn't that a Delta? I recently saw one on CL but it was gone in a heartbeat. 1x42?

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[Davefr]

Get the 8" JET. At 8 amps it's very powerful and a good machine. More powerful then the same size Baldor but cheaper.

Or just start going to garage and estate sales and after a few years you'll likely score a real nice oldy that you can restore.

 

[dnschmidt]

To me, bench grinders are a tool of the distant past. Belt sanders on the other hand are the tools of the present and the future. I use a cheap and dirty 1"X30" for grinding tungsten exclusively and a 6"X48" for everything else. They are simply far more useful than any bench grinder. The only advantage of a bench grinder is wire wheels and for that I have an army of angle grinders which can be taken to the work rather than the other way around.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

To me, bench grinders are a tool of the distant past. Belt sanders on the other hand are the tools of the present and the future. I use a cheap and dirty 1"X30" for grinding tungsten exclusively and a 6"X48" for everything else. They are simply far more useful than any bench grinder. The only advantage of a bench grinder is wire wheels and for that I have an army of angle grinders which can be taken to the work rather than the other way around.

I for one must concur. I have a 40 year old Milwaukee (Baldor) in our shop, and I truly can't remember the last time it was used. Don't get me wrong, they do a job, it's just that there better options in most cases. That old Milwaukee had A LOT of use back in my younger day when I didn't have a fully stocked shop...but back then, same as now I did my research and bought the best that I could afford.

 

[mbshop]

About 4 years ago I bought a craftsman professional 8 in grinder with wire wheel. Has a speed regulator that works nicely. Don't use it often but it's nice to have when I need it. Cost on sale was under a 100 bucks. So maybe stop being to picky, buy a mid quality grinder and be done with it. Over analyzing things gets you nothing.

 

[Nelson58]

I bought a very old Baldor 510 carbide grinder on Ebay. Paid under $200. It is 3 phase, so I need to get a VFD hooked to it. I paid under $200 for it. The new ones retail for $1200. You can get the water cups and other stuff if you keep your eyes open.

 

[btdobie]

A lot of people seem to think a bench belt sander would be a better option. I am curious how much life I should expect out of sand paper vs a grinding wheel.

The biggest reason I would want a grinder over a belt sander is to put a wire wheel on one side, but i suppose I could just as easily use the wire wheel on my angle grinder.

 

[dnschmidt]

Quality sanding belts last a long time. I use Klingspor as I have an industrial account with them and I like my Klingspor salesman. Use the aluminum/zirconia belts and you'll see that they do last a very long time before replacement is necessary.

The reason bench grinders came to be an indespensible shop tool is that they are just about the only way to grind a lathe bit. Now that we have carbide insert tooling this requirement is long past.

 

[macgee]

A lot of people seem to think a bench belt sander would be a better option. I am curious how much life I should expect out of sand paper vs a grinding wheel.

The biggest reason I would want a grinder over a belt sander is to put a wire wheel on one side, but i suppose I could just as easily use the wire wheel on my angle grinder.

It all depends what your grinding and how your grinding on the belt grinder. I have had belts last for ages and then some go quickly but belts are cheap. And the beauty of belts is that you can have a variety of belts with different grits and style of belts for particular jobs. It should be really quick & easy to change.

The closest I have to grinders are several polishing machines that have wire wheels (1725 rpm), bristle wheels, flap wheels and buffing wheels. I haven't looked back.

I restored this 1 x 42 Rockwell that I bought for $15 and it was ugly and non functional. These are really easy to restore and customize so keep a eye out for a non running one otherwise they can sell for silly prices.

It could use a stronger motor but that's an easy fix, these are for small jobs and really nice for using on bolts, having the big cast iron tool rest which is easy to square up or change to a 30° angle blows doors off a small stone wheel tool rest. I have two other larger belt grinders and 12" disk grinder. I honestly use these machines more than any machine in my shop, they get used everyday and love the finish they give off.

As dnschmidt stated "Bench grinders are a tool of the distant past. Belt sanders on the other hand are the tools of the present and the future."

This is what people should do to their bench grinders as this GJ member "
exmaxima1" has done and I will mostly likely will do the same with mine, We have the same grinder. I really liked what he did by adding a cut off blade and belt grinder to it.

Here's his thread about it: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4905324#post4905324

 

[CoogarXR]

I have had my bench grinder for about 20 years. I bought it at one of those Homier tent-sales, lol. For those that have never heard of them, they make Harbor Freight seem luxurious. It still works just fine, and still has the original wheels on it. It's nothing great. I only use it a few times a year, but when I do, I am thankful to have it around.

I guess what I am saying is, if you don't have a distinct need for one, you can get by with a cheapie.

If you are one of those types who is very picky (and losing sleep over a bench grinder is kinda a hint that you are), just pay the $300, yell "ouch!" and sleep it off.

 

[Super Sport]

A little on/off topic.

Look through some old Craftsman catalogs and see what USA-made block grinders were selling for back when. A year or so ago I did this, and the grinder I looked at was $119.00 in 1970 (I think it was an 8"). Today, Sears sells the comparable grinder, although made in China, for that same price.

If you adjust those $119 1970 dollars to today, it would be pretty close to $300, which is the cost of a Baldor.

My point is, we are so accustomed to cheap stuff that the good stuff now seems unreasonably priced when it really isn't.

 

[sberry]

I do mower blades with 4 1/2, same for hoes. I been doing it a while and can actually sharpen a passable 1/4 drill bit on one if I have to but a mower blade can be near razor sharp.

 

[finn]

Supersport gets it.

The good old days weren't always as good as we remember. From a consumer standpoint we actually have many more choices of price point and quality than we did back then, it's just that we want premium professional products and quality levels at mass market/ import prices.

 

[-Brent-]

Hmm, it's interesting to see differing opinions here. I use bench grinders pretty often. But the grinder with the stone wheels is the least used. The grinder with the wire wheel and 3m Scotch-Brite wheel is the absolute most often used grinder for me. That said, I do a fair bit of prep or cleaning work with them.



I have 4 grinders mounted but one of them is going to find a new home, soon. I'd like to replace it with a heavier duty unit that I could polish with.

If you do fab work a grinder is handy. I could work without them but it would take me much longer.

 

[bcoke]

IMHO a bench grinder is just a motor,arbor,and bearings.............as I am cheap err thrifty ......I go used [ graigslist, penny saver, flea markets ,garage sales , auctions etc] check for the best motor [amps. rpm etc, manufacturer] and good bearings that is all they are the wheels do no know if the machine is cast or stamped....... K I S S principle works here wonderfully.............bobbycoke

 

[1982fxr]

I do a lot of wire wheeling, so to me the bench grinder is indispensable.

 

[6PTsocket]

I have had my bench grinder for about 20 years. I bought it at one of those Homier tent-sales, lol. For those that have never heard of them, they make Harbor Freight seem luxurious. It still works just fine, and still has the original wheels on it. It's nothing great. I only use it a few times a year, but when I do, I am thankful to have it around.

I guess what I am saying is, if you don't have a distinct need for one, you can get by with a cheapie.

If you are one of those types who is very picky (and losing sleep over a bench grinder is kinda a hint that you are), just pay the $300, yell "ouch!" and sleep it off.

I know them. They used to come every year and set up in a tent or armory or VFW hall. It was like the HF traveling road show. I think with HF opening like 3 stores a week, it must have put a dent in their sales. At least when it doesn't work it is easier to return if they haven't left town.

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[macgee]

I just found these two belt sanders/grinders in south Minnesota.

The first one is not exactly cheap but looks be in in excellent condition and has a larger motor than normal and the wheel look very good. The price is actually pretty good when you compare it to ones on eBay especially for how complete it is and how good of condition it's in and you don't have to replace the wheels.

http://rmn.craigslist.org/tls/5896780548.html

This one is the larger combo and I can highly recommend this one, it works really well with nicely machined cast iron tables and strong trunnions. This one is made in the USA and is actually much nicer to other comparable ones. I have one of these and the old heavy Rockwell version and prefer this one over the Rockwell. The photo's are bad and only shows it with the 6x48 in horizontal position.

http://lacrosse.craigslist.org/tls/5919292901.html

I bet you can negotiate a much better price and they both would be worth it.



PS> Like others have said, if you just want a traditional grinder then just go ahead and buy a cheap used one. If you really like using one then go out a find a better one. Also, Scotchbrite wheels are excellent to have, better on a polisher.
Wire wheels are must but found I prefer using a slower speed to avoid being stabbed by wire bristles, it gets old pulling them out of your chest. I have two wires (soft & firm) on a wide spindle slow polisher so I can reach in tight spots and not keep hitting the motor like you would on a traditional short spindle grinder.
I also highly suggest 3M bristle wheels at high rpm: http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/3MIndustrial/Abrasives/Products/~/Scotch-Brite-Radial-Bristle-Disc-Thin-Bristle-3-in-x-3-8-in-220-80-per-case?N=7581639+4294942282&rt=rud

 

[6PTsocket]

It all depends what your grinding and how your grinding on the belt grinder. I have had belts last for ages and then some go quickly but belts are cheap. And the beauty of belts is that you can have a variety of belts with different grits and style of belts for particular jobs. It should be really quick & easy to change.

The closest I have to grinders are several polishing machines that have wire wheels (1725 rpm), bristle wheels, flap wheels and buffing wheels. I haven't looked back.

I restored this 1 x 42 Rockwell that I bought for $15 and it was ugly and non functional. These are really easy to restore and customize so keep a eye out for a non running one otherwise they can sell for silly prices.

It could use a stronger motor but that's an easy fix, these are for small jobs and really nice for using on bolts, having the big cast iron tool rest which is easy to square up or change to a 30° angle blows doors off a small stone wheel tool rest. I have two other larger belt grinders and 12" disk grinder. I honestly use these machines more than any machine in my shop, they get used everyday and love the finish they give off.

As dnschmidt stated "Bench grinders are a tool of the distant past. Belt sanders on the other hand are the tools of the present and the future."

This is what people should do to their bench grinders as this GJ member "
exmaxima1" has done and I will mostly likely will do the same with mine, We have the same grinder. I really liked what he did by adding a cut off blade and belt grinder to it.

Here's his thread about it: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4905324#post4905324

That Delta looks beautiful.They go really fast. I think the one I missed on CL went for $40. Is there an import knock off available? I don't know why there is nothing similar.


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[OccupantRJ]

Isn't that a Delta? I recently saw one on CL but it was gone in a heartbeat. 1x42?

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I have seen them branded as both Delta and as Rockwell, and as both. 1x42", yes.

 

[Ign]

OP you'll get plenty of life out of a belt, just use ZA not AO

 

[SteveCh]

Finally broke down and bought a Metabo couple yr. ago, think it was $170 or so on Amazon. Like many, for years I'd take stuff into work and do my thing on break. Nice having one at home now.

Anyhow, the Metabo is very nice, smooth-running and so on. I am more impressed than I thought I'd be when I ordered the thing.