Impact Wrenches... Do some hit harder than others?

[bmxr4life87]

Mg325 and 725 are good guns but they are loud heavy and dont hold up like the ir2135 and 2115. Ive been using the ir guns day in and day out 6 years DAILY and you wont catch me even considering an mg impact. One guy at the shop has one he bought brand new and he is seeing the error of his ways even though he is a huge snap on fanboy. Aircat impacts are nice but I dont know how well they will last with daily use

 

[dadler]

I know it won't impress anyone, but the HF Earthquake impact really hits hard. I think it is a clone of one of the IR guns.

http://t.harborfreight.com/12-in-professional-air-impact-wrench-68424.html

With coupon I got mine for under $70.

This entire thread is full of anecdotal evidence, and there are a lot of good guns listed here, but for the money you can't go wrong with one of these. They hit hard. I used to have a much older IR and this cheap HF gun hits way harder.

Also, use short hose and automotive couplers or milton high flow couplers. And crank the pressure up higher at the tank as you can easily lose 20+ psi through the hose so the gun sees lower pressure. You want 90 psi at the gun.

 

[dadler]

I don't understand why an extension or deep socket would take away torque.

Think of how an impact gun actually works, if you have ever taken one apart.

The gun uses a burst of air to accelerate the rotor/hammer over 180 degrees, it hits the anvil and imparts this kinetic energy elastically, which now accelerates the anvil. The hammer slips due to its design and the cycle repeats.

The important word to notice above is "accelerate".

F=ma. This means that if mass is increased, acceleration is reduced for given force.

When you use an extension or deep socket, you are indirectly increasing the mass of the anvil assembly, which means that it will accelerate more slowly and hence impart less force to the fastener.

Further, impact guns only impart force twice, instantaneously, each revolution. If you are using an extension, any additional "slack" in the system (such as that provided by an extension-the gap between the socket/extension/anvil) must be taken up with each hammering event. This additional slop really eats into the amount of delivered force, as by the time all the slack is out of the assembly, the hammering action is nearly over.

Hope this explanation helps.

 

[superautobacs]

Honestly don't get caught up in the numbers. Find out what you can afford, find out what is liked by others, compare them yourself physically if you can, then decide. 90% of the time you will not need that extra 100ft-lbs if its even that to begin with. The rest of the time you want something comfortable. I bought an MG725 because it was the biggest baddest gun. I'd rather use a 2135QTiMAX most of the time. My "**** dyno" says the IR has less power but thats because its so much smaller and quieter. It seems to perform just fine. There has been fewer times than I can count on my hand that the IR couldn't get something and the Snap On came to save the day. I really have a strong dislike for the snap-on controls.

I do like my MG325, much quieter and nicer to use, same crappy controls, but a nice gun, although I have nothing to compare it to., The IR equivalent doesn't seem well liked and its not just SO fanboys either.


As for cordless, I bit the bullet and started buying a bunch as well. Researched it a lot before buying and had a strong bias against Milwaukee because everyone loved them so much. Ended up with a bunch of M12 and M18 Fuel stuff where possible and a few things not offered in Fuel. I've been very impressed and my air stuff doesn't see as much use. The M18 Fuel Large 1/2" impact has plenty of power. Have only had it for a couple months, but I haven't run into much it can't take off that the air wrench will. They definately have the power side down, but its still a big clubby unorthodox beast compared to something like an IR 2135. I sold my air ratchets in favor of the cordless, rarely used the ratchets before because I hated using air ratchets and dealing with hoses. May sell the MG325 but don't know if I'd sell the 1/2" gun because the cordless gun is just too clumsy for some applications. I also like the abuse air tools can take being thrown around and dropped. Not sure the Milwaukee would like that as much.

Cordless is nice when you don't want to drag out the hose or air is not close by. But for extended use air is still superior. Its not a game of power really, they compete on that level. Its down to whats practical for your application. If you just need to bust a few things loose with the cordless once and awhile then its great, but if you were a heavy equipment mechanic that uses a 1/2" impact hours on end I would stick to air. 3/8" days are numbered though. The 3/8" cordless guns may not quite have the power but they are compact and nice to use all day. Especially the little M12 Fuel. Again not a powerhouse, but you don't always need bolt snapping power.

Great post. I agree on a lot of your points (highlighted in bold), and I have a M18 impact wrench as well.














The most hardest hitting pneumatic impacts for any given drive size is going to be heavier, more bulkier in dimension, produce more vibration, will require more air flow to start initial rotation of rotor (therefore, it'll be harder to feather the trigger for soft starts), and will likely consume more air at full throttle.

I might be in the minority, but I prefer an impact that I can hold all day long without being bothered by its weight, is quiet, has good throttle control, doesn't vibrate like it's about to explode, has good handling ergonomics and ease of control (directional lever/power settings), is compact in dimensions to get into tighter spaces, and yet has the working torque output to do 90% of the work on an automobile.

An impact wrench that satisfies those key points would be my go-to impact wrench. It's most certainly isn't going to be that impact that's reputed to put out the highest, nut-busting torque available in the market.

Speaking of output numbers.....
There's no standard set in place for manufacturers to conform to when they rate the torque output on their products. They company A does their rating is different from company B. The ratings are based on the most ideal conditions they can operate them in (working pressure, hose ID, length of hose, how many seconds after trigger engagement, etc) So, I don't follow manufacturers advertised output numbers as fact.

It's marketing....
Company A touts a industry leading max. torque output .... then, competitor A comes out with a product that beats that.... then competitor B comes out.....so on so forth. It's a race/war between manufacturers....and it's also marketing hype.


For example, I have a Ku-ken 1/2" compact model that's rated by the company to have a working range of 100-330Nm (75-245ft/lbs). It's not very high at all, but it's capable of doing most of the work I encounter on a passenger vehicle.

Recently, I had to work on a wheel bearing. The axle nut is torqued to 330ft/lbs. It's more than the working range of the Ku-ken impact, but it was able to remove it. There's no doubt that it took more impacts and time to remove the nut compared to a MG725 but it's capable of performing the job.

When it came time to tighten the new axle nut I had a new MG725 to compare it with. Comparatively speaking the MG725 is a monster in advertised numbers (810ft/lbs of forward working torque) and is considerably larger, heavier, louder, harder to control....a brute.

I impacted the nut with the Ku-ken in setting [4], the highest setting, and let it do its thing until the nut stopped moving. I then took the MG725 to finish it off, but was surprised to see that even after going full throttle for 5 full seconds the nut only turned about 5 degrees.

Ku-ken KW-1600Spro impact compared with MG-725



compared the dimensions to a 3/8" Mac/Proto




compare the dimension of the nose with a 3/8" IR (better access into tighter spots)

 

[durallymax]

What dial?
Is there a dial to turn the power up? Where is it?

On many guns yes. Older CP style uses a collar around the direction plunger. Many othersuse a dial in the rear of the gun like the IR Mag guns. I like this the best. The one I do not like is my Snap On. The picture below shows my MG725 and a 2135 side by side. The tiny snap on dial is not friendly to turn especially with gloves on. Actually easier to change the direction and twist it above the trigger instead of at the rear. Not very user friendly.




This picture shows the CP older style on a CP 3/4 next to 2145 IR with a 3/8 earthquake to show another common style used on many guns. Some guns do not have settings though.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

On the mg725 the dial is in the little cylinder you push forward or backward to change direction of the anvil. The other day at work my bosses mg725 wouldn't remove a lugnut. I grabbed an older IR gun (looked like a ti but was steel not ti) and it removed it no issue. My qtimax kicks **** too.

 

[stikman56]

I know it won't impress anyone, but the HF Earthquake impact really hits hard. I think it is a clone of one of the IR guns.

http://t.harborfreight.com/12-in-professional-air-impact-wrench-68424.html

With coupon I got mine for under $70.

This entire thread is full of anecdotal evidence, and there are a lot of good guns listed here, but for the money you can't go wrong with one of these. They hit hard. I used to have a much older IR and this cheap HF gun hits way harder.

Also, use short hose and automotive couplers or milton high flow couplers. And crank the pressure up higher at the tank as you can easily lose 20+ psi through the hose so the gun sees lower pressure. You want 90 psi at the gun.

They hit very hard. The older Earthquake was my first strong 1/2" impact. They're heavy, but quite impressive for their torque. I've seen them beat up on the Snap-On IM6100 and IM6500, did just that on a co-workers wrench, he bought a used Earthquake after that because he was so impressed.

 

[stikman56]

Bro, you must be confused with something else. The milwaukee fuel m18 has more power than anything on the market right now.

Their 1/2 full size impact has 1100ft/lbs reverse. I own it and it's no BS. It makes most Air impacts look like toys.


http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/cordless/2763-22

I think the W7150 is saying 1100 torques as well

 

[fatboyf150]

I have a Craftmans 1/2" that is about 13 years old and have upgraded to larger 3/8" fittings from tractor supply all through my shop. It is an incredible difference.

 

[stikman56]

Mg325 and 725 are good guns but they are loud heavy and dont hold up like the ir2135 and 2115. Ive been using the ir guns day in and day out 6 years DAILY and you wont catch me even considering an mg impact. One guy at the shop has one he bought brand new and he is seeing the error of his ways even though he is a huge snap on fanboy. Aircat impacts are nice but I dont know how well they will last with daily use

The Aircat's are actually built better in some areas as compared to the IR's you're referring to. Size of the rotor output shaft is one, and for me, this is a big area of concern on an impact wrench ( have had five 2135ti's through here with broken rotors so far) and the inlet valve is plastic on the IR's, I've repaired many that failed in that area as well. Aircat uses one-piece metal for their inlet valves, at least all the composite wrenches I've seen so far. Not the only reason I like them though, they're also stronger as well, so I have one for my personal use. You're right about the Snap-On, loud, heavy, troublesome, expensive, when compared to many of the other stronger 1/2" impacts out there. They also don't make the torque they should for an 8-vane rotor, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[stikman56]

On many guns yes. Older CP style uses a collar around the direction plunger. Many othersuse a dial in the rear of the gun like the IR Mag guns. I like this the best. The one I do not like is my Snap On. The picture below shows my MG725 and a 2135 side by side. The tiny snap on dial is not friendly to turn especially with gloves on. Actually easier to change the direction and twist it above the trigger instead of at the rear. Not very user friendly.




This picture shows the CP older style on a CP 3/4 next to 2145 IR with a 3/8 earthquake to show another common style used on many guns. Some guns do not have settings though.

Out of all the impacts I've seen, the Snap-on MG series are the hardest to change the power settings on.

 

[volleyball]

I've been wanting to upgrade from my Rodac 606 that hasn't had much use because it never seemed strong.
Anyone know if there is some way to make it stronger? Maybe powder coat parts to tighten up the tolerences.
It still looks relatively new as it hasn't been all that useful.

 

[stikman56]

I've been wanting to upgrade from my Rodac 606 that hasn't had much use because it never seemed strong.
Anyone know if there is some way to make it stronger? Maybe powder coat parts to tighten up the tolerences.
It still looks relatively new as it hasn't been all that useful.

I don't know the torque of it, but this is just a wild guess, I'm thinking it's no more than a 400 ft. lb. wrench. I had one that looked like that, and it felt like about 400, anyway. Could it just be that it's a lower-torque gun? If not,and it's pretty fresh, look for air loss when you pull the trigger( other than the obvious exhaust, which is normal) Seals and gaskets I've found to be the most likely if a gun is fresh and losing power. Other thing I've found is being gummed up inside, rotor vanes etc. After a thorough clean-up they will run much better. If you put an extra amount of oil in it and pull the trigger, what comes out, is it real dark, or rusty looking? It'll a almost always be a bit darker coming out, but if it's looking really bad?That's usually a pretty good indication of what the cylinder looks like inside. How's your air supply? Clean, good strong compressor, air lines big enough, no restricted areas? Bigger air lines and fittings usually help,more CFM to the tool, if the compressor can keep up.

 

[stikman56]

Great post. I agree on a lot of your points (highlighted in bold), and I have a M18 impact wrench as well









The most hardest hitting pneumatic impacts for any given drive size is going to be heavier, more bulkier in dimension, produce more vibration, will require more air flow to start initial rotation of rotor (therefore, it'll be harder to feather the trigger for soft starts), and will likely consume more air at full throttle.

I might be in the minority, but I prefer an impact that I can hold all day long without being bothered by its weight, is quiet, has good throttle control, doesn't vibrate like it's about to explode, has good handling ergonomics and ease of control (directional lever/power settings), is compact in dimensions to get into tighter spaces, and yet has the working torque output to do 90% of the work on an automobile.

An impact wrench that satisfies those key points would be my go-to impact wrench. It's most certainly isn't going to be that impact that's reputed to put out the highest, nut-busting torque available in the market.

Speaking of output numbers.....
There's no standard set in place for manufacturers to conform to when they rate the torque output on their products. They company A does their rating is different from company B. The ratings are based on the most ideal conditions they can operate them in (working pressure, hose ID, length of hose, how many seconds after trigger engagement, etc) So, I don't follow manufacturers advertised output numbers as fact.

It's marketing....
Company A touts a industry leading max. torque output .... then, competitor A comes out with a product that beats that.... then competitor B comes out.....so on so forth. It's a race/war between manufacturers....and it's also marketing hype.


For example, I have a Ku-ken 1/2" compact model that's rated by the company to have a working range of 100-330Nm (75-245ft/lbs). It's not very high at all, but it's capable of doing most of the work I encounter on a passenger vehicle.

Recently, I had to work on a wheel bearing. The axle nut is torqued to 330ft/lbs. It's more than the working range of the Ku-ken impact, but it was able to remove it. There's no doubt that it took more impacts and time to remove the nut compared to a MG725 but it's capable of performing the job.

When it came time to tighten the new axle nut I had a new MG725 to compare it with. Comparatively speaking the MG725 is a monster in advertised numbers (810ft/lbs of forward working torque) and is considerably larger, heavier, louder, harder to control....a brute.

I impacted the nut with the Ku-ken in setting [4], the highest setting, and let it do its thing until the nut stopped moving. I then took the MG725 to finish it off, but was surprised to see that even after going full throttle for 5 full seconds the nut only turned about 5 degrees.

Ku-ken KW-1600Spro impact compared with MG-725



compared the dimensions to a 3/8" Mac/Proto




compare the dimension of the nose with a 3/8" IR (better access into tighter spots)

They don't have to be heavier and bulkier to have higher torque outputs. Some are, some are not. Engineering comes into play as well. Take the Cornwell CAT2150and the Matco MT2138, (same wrench) 500 ft. lbs. and the smallest 3/8" I've ever seen. Same for the Cornwell CAT4150, shortest 1/2" I've ever seen ,1200 ft. lbs., weighs only 4 pounds. I've used them, the 4150 is one of the strongest 1/2" wrenches I've used, and so far the 2150 is by far the strongest 3/8" I've tested, yes I know Aircat makes one that's 700 ft. lbs., but I haven't used that one yet.
There's also more than one type of hammer as well. Pin style hammers put out more torque are smoother too, than the twin hammer designs. They don't last as long, they're not as beefy. Also, 6, 7, and 8-vane rotors as well. Snap-On uses 8-vanes, is heavier than most and still isn't the strongest. Nitrocat has made some of the strongest wrenches on the market and stayed with 6-vane rotors. Rotors have gotten larger on their wrenches, and I feel they made better use of the air flow and the larger rotor to help achieve this torque.
2135timax employs a 7-vane rotor as well as the CAT4150, both real strong wrenches.